Social The WFTGD: How About Some Deep Breathing?

[⑨ball]

9ball and Macchiato confirmed not wanting to GET THIS WORKOUT by my Wii Fit Trainer

Friendlies with the forums is one of the many things on my long list of things to do.

 

[Macchiato]

What do yew guys think of Lucina. I don't really see her as bad as people say. Marth is probably still high tier and Lucina isn't THAT different so I see her as low mid tier. Have yew guys seen crescent slash. It follows up from a fthrow, fair, or bair and kills at 45% from the ledge. It's like rest, but super safe.

 

[Xyless]

They feel really bad, at least without customs. I could be wrong, but it just feels like they don't have enough follow ups to their stuff.

 

[Macchiato]

They feel really bad, at least without customs. I could be wrong, but it just feels like they don't have enough follow ups to their stuff.

Yeah there only follow ups are

At 0%
fthrow-fair
dthrow-bair/uair

Low percents
Falling uair-utilt/nair/uair/usmash/fsmash

Mid-high percents
Falling uair-uair

Every percent
First hit nair-grab/jab/DS/ftilt/dtilt

But they have a great zoning game due to their great range and they also kill pretty early. I don't think they're top tier but their underrated, like bottom tier? Really? At least that's what Japan thinks

 

[⑨ball]

I don't think they're bottom. Their biggest issues are high commitment for low return outside of smashes(which are high risk/reward) and MUs that are generally 50/50's and losses to high tiers across the board. They can do fine given a high skill level but they just don't beat anyone outright which makes playing them an uphill climb for your entire tournament career.

I like crescent custom a lot, even though I kill myself far too often.

I haven't given up on Lucina yet, and I think a breakthrough will probably reveal itself in close ranged ground fighting rather than the aerial spacing Marth was used to, but I don't have anything worth mentioning yet. Lucina/Marth are two characters that could REALLY profit from RTAC if they could use it, but alas...

 

[Macchiato]

I don't think they're bottom. Their biggest issues are high commitment for low return outside of smashes(which are high risk/reward) and MUs that are generally 50/50's and losses to high tiers across the board. They can do fine given a high skill level but they just don't beat anyone outright which makes playing them an uphill climb for your entire tournament career.

I like crescent custom a lot, even though I kill myself far too often.

I haven't given up on Lucina yet, and I think a breakthrough will probably reveal itself in close ranged ground fighting rather than the aerial spacing Marth was used to, but I don't have anything worth mentioning yet. Lucina/Marth are two characters that could REALLY profit from RTAC if they could use it, but alas...

I definitely agree. I feel that many people are playing her too much like Marth from the past. Which isn't a good way to start a characters meta. Also I'm posting your quote in Lucinas Metagame thread.

I think wii fit also suffers from underrating because of one quality which is range which imo isn't even that bad. I definitely think she has lots of potential, she has great projectiles and aerials. Her ground game is also pretty good. But alas... There will be those people which say "No one uses her, she's really bad. I haven't seen her much but I've seen her range and poor approaching skills."

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

WFT is actually quite the zonebreaker, with good MUs IMO against zone-heavy characters like R.O.B. and Rosalina (B and A tier characters by Japan's standards, respectively). I also think she beats Toon Link. For some reason though, regular Link feels uphill. (So many MUs to discuss O_o)

I think the problem is moreso with players than with WFT. She demands a lot of patience. Your spacing needs to either be decent or perfect for you to gain wins with her. A lot of players don't want to put in the time or effort, hence the behind-the-chair ****-talking they do when asked about WFT. They'll throw out smash attacks and ask "Why do I keep missing? Why is that so easy to punish? Omq she sux111 worst character **** you sakurai I wanted Geno....". And that negative perception spreads like bacteria in an unattended wound.

I also think that WFT having a finesse archetype means that players who main Sheik would do really well with her. It's just a hunch I have.

As for Lucina and Marth, I'm actually always defending Marth from criticism from my fellow players. I think he's mid-tier. Lucina though I do agree struggles against most of the cast. But I also agree that she needs to be played differently and that too many that use her try to play her like Brawl or Smash 4 Marth. I know they're clones, but even Dark Pit has to be played differently by players because they have to maintain in their conscience that he has fewer kills moves, etc.

 

[⑨ball]

Also I'm posting your quote in Lucinas Metagame thread.

That's cool. Let me clarify so you don't get blown up because I get into a few heated discussions over my thoughts on these two.

First, what I mean by "close ranged". As it stands currently, neither are good up close. They simply don't have the frame data to let them play up close without getting punished for literally everything. At the end of the day regardless of your character you want to maximize your spacing. Despite distributed damage on her sword, Lucina wants to be in the same position as Marth, it's just that he is rewarded far greater for it.

However, if the duo had access to something akin to WFT's rtac I believe Lucina could benefit from it much more than her counterpart, as it'd let her function much greater as a zone breaker without the need to trade off damage, kill potential and efficient spacing. Meanwhile Marth who'd get the same thing would have to constantly be trading off tippers for the same thing. All in all it's just a matter of finding a new way for her to move that lets her actually take advantage of her character differences.

Secondly, "ground fighting". What I mean by this, is that for BOTH characters, aerial spacing is just so bad, you're better off not doing it at all. Trying to play like Brawl/Melee Marth is almost as bad as trying to fight up close. Luckily their ground speed is really good, both in walking for micro spacing and running/foxtrots for bigger chunks. I believe that a playstyle that focuses on keeping them on the ground properly spaced will see much more success than the aerial play I've been seeing a lot of.

I think wii fit also suffers from underrating because of one quality which is range which imo isn't even that bad. I definitely think she has lots of potential, she has great projectiles and aerials. Her ground game is also pretty good. But alas... There will be those people which say "No one uses her, she's really bad. I haven't seen her much but I've seen her range and poor approaching skills."

True. I don't even argue WFT any more because I know that no one really knows what this character is capable of. The game has been out for a decent amount of time now and you still have people that see reverse ftilt killing and calling it utilt, or saying DB is for healing.

WFT is actually quite the zonebreaker, with good MUs IMO against zone-heavy characters like R.O.B. and Rosalina (B and A tier characters by Japan's standards, respectively). I also think she beats Toon Link. For some reason though, regular Link feels uphill. (So many MUs to discuss O_o)

Regular link has much better aerial approach options in nair. He also dies much later outside of gimps, but I think she takes it pretty convincingly if the player has a good handle on how to approach and how to edgeguard.

I think the problem is moreso with players than with WFT. She demands a lot of patience. Your spacing needs to either be decent or perfect for you to gain wins with her. A lot of players don't want to put in the time or effort, hence the behind-the-chair ****-talking they do when asked about WFT. They'll throw out smash attacks and ask "Why do I keep missing? Why is that so easy to punish? Omq she sux111 worst character **** you sakurai I wanted Geno....". And that negative perception spreads like bacteria in an unattended wound.

This much is kind of given. WFT's forums have about 3-4 complaint threads. Might've been more but I know a few are merged. Most of these threads are filled with player problems, questionable necessities, or just flat out wrong information and I'm constantly debating whether or not to offer insight or let people have their vent session.
=/

I also think that WFT having a finesse archetype means that players who main Sheik would do really well with her. It's just a hunch I have.

I can see that. Though I think the biggest hurdle to clicking with WFT is learning her hitboxes so if a player can do that, the rest will pretty much flow.

I'm most looking forward to how much changes when we master the rtac. I feel like I've been gushing about it for some time now, but it's honestly the best thing WFT's had since reverse fair stabbed through shields.

 

[Macchiato]

Wait, what's RTAC?

 

[⑨ball]

run turn around cancel

been trying to make the abbreviation stick lately for convenience.

 

[ProofByContrapositive]

Looking for wft practice. Please add me beamk2000. This character is interesting to fight.

 

[Niala]

I have a busy week ahead of me, @ ProofByContrapositive but I'll gladly play with you another time! NNID: Nialan. I'll try to hit you up sometime within the next couple weeks!

 

[ProofByContrapositive]

I'll add you today

 

[⑨ball]

And now we wait for Nintendo to tell us Ridley is confirmed.

 

[Macchiato]

1.0.6 Predictions

- Hitboxes are cut in half

- Recovery distance is nerfed

- Fair KBG is significantly larger

- People can't fall out of Fsmash and Usmash anymore






Anyone like to play?

 

[Niala]

I'm on my lunch but I might be able to play some tonight.

I should note though that I've had to downgrade my internet 'cause money is something I have none of, so it'll probably be really laggy.

 

[⑨ball]

Balance Tweaks confirmed for Mewtwo/Lucas update?


RIP in peace Greninja and Little Mac.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

I've been trying to incorporate Dtilt more into my playstyle but im having a lot of difficulty. I'm not sure WHEN to exactly use it and also I'm have difficulty getting use to the trajectory and hitbox. Any tips??

 

[Niala]

dtilt doesn't have a whole lot of range and comes out somewhat slow, but using it with rtac is usually quite powerful since you can slide in a crouch toward them. I've also found it's a pretty good punish tool for people who spot-dodge a lot, since the active frames are pretty good and the damage is quite high for a tilt (12% I think.)

 

[Macchiato]

Jab to dtilt does high damage

 

[⑨ball]

12% is right. It's pretty much your go to hard punish for low animations and poke outside of projectiles. Like Niala said, it's pretty good with Rtac because you can lower your hurtbox on the approach or retreat. It also does really good shield damage and push making it pretty safe if it isn't powershielded.

A fairly good option out of jab's burying on damage and will pop them out of it at a good angle for chasing around usmash's killing percents.


edit: small update to the index now linking TKBreezy's youtube playlist, Aderyi's vine and Oji~i's vines.

Nothing particularly revolutionary in any of these, but they provide plenty of decent quality videos for known WFT tech, Aderyi in particular has a really good vine for this.

 

[koolkid789]

Hi guys, I'm new-ish (a bit of a lurker) to smash boards and I would be honoured to be part of the wii fit community!


Name: KoolKid (Green)
Location: I live in the moment
Talents: Procrastinating?? Does that count?
Likes: Music, rock climbing, wind surfing...
Dislikes: When you hit your little toe on furniture
Goals: Win life
Other facts: 9/11 was an inside job

 

[koolkid789]

Also, check this out: ww/w.youtube.com/watch?v=zRhTW6nCghU&feature=youtu.be (remove the /)

I don't know if anyone else has found this but weighted header combos really well. Hopefully someone else can make a more quality video as the equipment I have is extremely limited. Any questions, please ask

 

[Kevandre]

I think this is the WFT social thread?

 

[⑨ball]

Also, check this out: ww/w.youtube.com/watch?v=zRhTW6nCghU&feature=youtu.be (remove the /)

I don't know if anyone else has found this but weighted header combos really well. Hopefully someone else can make a more quality video as the equipment I have is extremely limited. Any questions, please ask

We're on it. It's a nice video besides and we always appreciate footage of any kind.

Try using sh header from a distance. It remains active for a decent amount of time as it bounces and slides across the ground. It's more practical as a spacing tool this way, much safer than sidebing directly above them, and still combos just as well with a small trade off for initial damage.

From max distance you can even chase behind it to setup grabs if they shield or comboing into pretty much anything else including jumbo hoops for about 40+ damage, fsmash, or a really really late bair. All good damage that turn into kill moves.

 

[Macchiato]

Hmmmm where has chrisspy been, I haven't seen him in like months

 

[koolkid789]

We're on it. It's a nice video besides and we always appreciate footage of any kind.

Try using sh header from a distance. It remains active for a decent amount of time as it bounces and slides across the ground. It's more practical as a spacing tool this way, much safer than sidebing directly above them, and still combos just as well with a small trade off for initial damage.

From max distance you can even chase behind it to setup grabs if they shield or comboing into pretty much anything else including jumbo hoops for about 40+ damage, fsmash, or a really really late bair. All good damage that turn into kill moves.

Yeah, I completely agree with all those comments. I feel like weighted header is one of those moves that forces your opponent to make a decision and can set up for reads. Also, for mix ups, after the header you have the ability to drift forward/back, jump, air dodge. This can help vary your play style between aggressive and defensive.

 

[Macchiato]

I actually like huge header since it helps stage control and also helps at covering ledge options and let's her come back to the stage more easily than default.

 

[⑨ball]

Hmmmm where has chrisspy been, I haven't seen him in like months

@crisspy727 Really. Hope everything's ok.

Yeah, I completely agree with all those comments. I feel like weighted header is one of those moves that forces your opponent to make a decision and can set up for reads. Also, for mix ups, after the header you have the ability to drift forward/back, jump, air dodge. This can help vary your play style between aggressive and defensive.

Don't forget that Nixul's discovered techs work out of short hops too giving us some instant boosts upon hitting the ground.

I actually like huge header since it helps stage control and also helps at covering ledge options and let's her come back to the stage more easily than default.

There's a lot of things I'm still waiting on a capture card to drop, and sunpushing the huge header is one of them as it looks pretty cool and cancels directly into shield while sending out an active hitbox.

To be honest I'm a little torn between huge and default header as far as which I think is better. Mainly based off of use vs maintenance as I feel like I constantly have to dispose of huge header or stay near it to get the most out of it, while default I have to setup pretty much all the time. I want to play a bit more with huge as I prefer it in MU's vs characters that like to stay in the air.

 

[Silthyn]

Probably nothing new, but it's interesting that you actually gain more height when not mashing the B-button as fast as you can when using Jumbo Hoops. Timing seems to be a bit iffy, but you basically gain 1/2 of the normal height by pressing semi-fast which is a big deal. Is there any other move which behaves this way?

Don't forget that Nixul's discovered techs work out of short hops too giving us some instant boosts upon hitting the ground.

Could you explain the execution of this? I seem to have a hard time replicating what I see in the video :S

 

[⑨ball]

Nixul explains it pretty well in his thread, so I'm assuming you mean the sh header version?

It's pretty much just combining the two:

SH Header
1.short hop by tapping jump
2.fast header by double tapping side b

+

Nixul Slide

1.Jump from left to right (You skip this part because you are performing it in the sh header)
1.Land and crawl asap before entering an upright position to get the boost

***

The most important thing to keep in mind for getting the huge boosts out of this, is that it's related to the Rtac/c in some sense and what's most important is the momentum carried from the your crawl back into a neutral state. This means that the leniency you have to perform it out of a jump will always be much smaller than a rtac, but the frames needed for large boosts are also smaller letting you perform a large boost near instantly.

So to get a big boost like in his videos you want to land, crawl forward and backwards as fast as you can before entering an upright position.

Whereas if you want to do it with the rtacc you need to crawl forward a few frames(you'll notice you're doing pushups much faster) before crawling backwards and going into an upright position.

It's a little tough to get down, but you'll know you're on the right track when you start getting instant turn arounds during your crawl(which shouldn't be possible) or when you notice WFT is facing towards the right, (which she shouldn't be without having gone into her her turn around animation).

 

[AscWolf]

well WFT seems unchanged for me.
What do you guys think?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

My testing doesn't show any changes either, but I invite others to join in.

 

[Fancykong]

Updating now, so I'll check things out as well.

 

[HierophantGreen]

Could Wii-Fit's up-smash previously hit characters like Palutena while grounded? It might just be placebo but I feel it has a hitbox in her shoulders now.

 

[Niala]

Could Wii-Fit's up-smash previously hit characters like Palutena while grounded? It might just be placebo but I feel it has a hitbox in her shoulders now.

Yeah you could always hit tall characters, even some of the kinda short ones (like Yoshi) if you used it while moving.

I'm quite certain she hasn't changed at all. Which is terribly disappointing.

EDIT: Actually, the hitbox might have changed ever so slightly. Either way, though, the sweetspot is mostly what you're fishing for to get kills, though.

 

[Fancykong]

From the competitve board, it seems that Fsmash and Jab 1 can hit lower characters now.

 

[Martingale]

I've heard reports that WFT moves faster and has gateways to easier combos. Very little info besides that. If this is true, combined with Fsmash and jab hitting smalls, I am going to be so happy. Won't get a chance to play with the update until tomorrow.

 

[Niala]

So I went through the cast and tested that USmash. I'm not sure if the hitbox is lower, but if feels easier to hit, which I'm not sure means anything. It still whiffs on the following characters: /

On , It was harder to hit coming forward. They all have tapering hurtboxes as they go upward ( stand somewhat backwards, round out at the top) so you have to be really "inside" them in order to hit it while they're grounded.

I think they also increased the end-lag on USmash, after using it a million times today. But I'm not 100% sure about that.

 

[Fancykong]

So I went through the cast and tested that USmash. I'm not sure if the hitbox is lower, but if feels easier to hit, which I'm not sure means anything. It still whiffs on the following characters: /

On , It was harder to hit coming forward. They all have tapering hurtboxes as they go upward ( stand somewhat backwards, round out at the top) so you have to be really "inside" them in order to hit it while they're grounded.

I think they also increased the end-lag on USmash, after using it a million times today. But I'm not 100% sure about that.

Kirby has the same effect as Pac-Man, sadly.