The updated A.I. is pretty damn awesome.

[Phan7om]

imo, Characters that can DACUS should have their A.I. programmed so that they use it, and effectively.

Also, Idk if someone said this before, but is it possible to program them so that they will go legit combos? For example, a Lvl.X(9) CF cpu can tech chase > d-air > knee (and if possible, taunt while kneeing). Or have Fox U-throw > U-air when certain characters are at kill %.

Also, I think it would be cool for cpus to use footstooling in their moveset. I know Brawl cpu's could use it quite effectively for gimps and stuff... i know its a completely different way to footstool but I feel, somehow, it can be done. But make it situational, it would be pretty annoying for cpus to footstool you at times where a human player never would. even though thats like most of their strategy. sharingan ass muthaf*ckas

 

[NoLife]

?_?

translation?

every time snake sticks u with a C4 he runs away from u and flys in the air then blows it up mid-air...and he will keep trying that no matter what u do to him...

 

[NoLife]

imo, Characters that can DACUS should have their A.I. programmed so that they use it, and effectively.

agreed

 

[KingClubber]

Use it, sure
Effectively, doubt that will happen

Yes, it is possible now to code real combo's, we just did not have enough time to do that. 3.0's AI was focus completely was on DI, and Tech'ing. While it might not be the Best DI, or Tech'ing. It is better. Next will come ledge tech'ing, and meteor canceling, with better DI, and tech'ing.

I'm not going to be making promises, but i will try to make some time to do something regarding that. Just don't expect to be seeing any Ken Combo's.

As long as I'M coding AI, they will never use footstooling. Footstooling is a waste of time IMHO.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Use it, sure
Effectively, doubt that will happen

Yes, it is possible now to code real combo's, we just did not have enough time to do that. 3.0's AI was focus completely was on DI, and Tech'ing. While it might not be the Best DI, or Tech'ing. It is better. Next will come ledge tech'ing, and meteor canceling, with better DI, and tech'ing.

I'm not going to be making promises, but i will try to make some time to do something regarding that. Just don't expect to be seeing any Ken Combo's.

As long as I'M coding AI, they will never use footstooling. Footstooling is a waste of time IMHO.

What's a footstool?

 

[Comeback Kid]

What's a footstool?

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

pfft...

 

[Deleted member]

Dr PMBR,

Can you make the Lv 8 CPU be the same as the Lv 9 CPU, except don't let them do actions in the first 9 frames out of powershield and remove the triple smash DI? I want something that is at least somewhat good practice, and I don't see the random cheatyface AI moments as any better than melee's "DI everything up" CPUs.

Thanks.

 

[KingClubber]

@Umbreon
1-Why?
2-Triple Smash DI?
3-Your Problem?

Why would i want AI to be worst, if i was skilled (and patient) enough to code TAS styled AI, i would so do that. Having an CPU kicking my ass all across tournament viable stages. Yes Please.

 

[DrinkingFood]

He's asking for more human reaction times with the powershield one.
Their SDI is a little inhuman. But only a little bit. What actually surprises me is how consistently they get that level of SDI.

I still think the biggest issue with the CPUs is a lack of any kind of patience, they are balls out aggressive and pretty easy to bait. They could definitely stand to be told to DD/otherwise manuever around until you get a certain distance from them or whiff a move. After that is probably how they suck at finishing opponents.Having really good SDI, I think, doesn't seem like that big of an issue. If anything it leaves you prepared for the best SDI we'll ever see in humans.

 

[KingClubber]

i guess i could figure out something for the shield stuff...maybe

I'll plan on messing around with DI to mix up regular DI with SDI hopefully with better angles.

ugh first the Cpu's aren't aggro enough, now they're too aggro, i'm gonna have a hard time balancing that out.

 

[DrinkingFood]

ugh first the Cpu's aren't aggro enough, now they're too aggro, i'm gonna have a hard time balancing that out.

I think that complaint stemmed from the old CPUs having a bad habit of doing nothing at times. Not the nothing where they just stand still like they did a lot in 3.0, but the nothing where they just jump around and not try to hit you even if they were close and even if half your attacks are straight up missing and even if they had just put you into a "comboable" position. That was an issue in brawl and early PM builds mostly, I think. Now that that's not an issue, they are too aggro in the sense that they approach every single chance they get instead of waiting for the opponent to do the same. Which is a good thing if they're playing a gainst dumb players that let themselves run into the CPUs attacks and a good thing if the CPU lands a hit, since they are now smart enough to follow up. But now they have a habit of over committing.

 

[TreK]

If you're trying to mimmick human behavior, you could make them more defensive/bait-y only when they're in the lead and/or at high %. How does that sound ?

 

[KingClubber]

I see, i'll see what i can do.

When you guys get the patch please let me know what you think about the air dodging. It's not completely gone, but it shouldn't be much of a problem anymore

 

[DrinkingFood]

If you're trying to mimmick human behavior, you could make them more defensive/bait-y only when they're in the lead and/or at high %. How does that sound ?

That actually makes sense. A gradient between the two behaviors, "aggro" and "defensive" would be pretty healthy. There are a **** ton of variables there though.

I see, i'll see what i can do.

When you guys get the patch please let me know what you think about the air dodging. It's not completely gone, but it shouldn't be much of a problem anymore

I'll do this now

 

[Sai_]

Air dodging fix is amazing. No more cheap kills. One thing I've seen is that Captain Falcon might jump off a ledge, and you'll hit him so that he has to mid-air jump to get back, and if you run away before he gets back, he'll do a random air dodge for no reason, and SD.

 

[PaRappa the Rapper]

Been playing some 3.01 today, the AI in general definitely SD alot less now, thanks again KC!

 

[KingClubber]

Good to hear, Going to be starting again.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15DZ6ZQXLXWLS1vzCewZUw2GQPs11zfyMrQy7f_yCFXw/edit?usp=sharing
But i need to restart my computer first.
See you there.

 

[DrinkingFood]

@ KingClubber , CPUs are looking much less suicidal. I've found that they have a habit of simply running off stage, no jump, and immediately either doing an aerial (usually to their death) or airdodging (always to their death). Always in that particular manner, only when I'm on the ledge or just off of it. It seems like they are trying to edgeguard but doing it at the wrong time. Roy loves nair for it, falcon loves fair, dk uses bair when he does it. I don't know if this particular suicide is already noted, but I never noticed it before now because hey were so busy short-hopping off instead.

 

[KingClubber]

Fix one problem create another

--

Found it, thx @ DrinkingFood

 

[Deleted member]

the way the CPU reacts with powershields and SDI i'm at the point where they either PS or i freestyle on them and half my conversions there's this superhuman DI that i'll never actually see a human do. it's just not good practice.

 

[NoLife]

Does the media fire file only affect Falco and if so does it make him worse

 

[KingClubber]

yes to both

If you read the doc, it says the only character i will be working on is falco, and that he would start off really bad. Going to be a long project, it won't be finished anytime soon. The MediaFire File is just for you to see the progress for yourself.

 

[NoLife]

O ur making him (falco) play competitively (pillaring ect.) But would it b a a good idea to get theeffective file so I could effectively learn the matchup or would he be too broken to play against

 

[KingClubber]

He's not worth fighting against right now, You can try it and request something to be done sooner rather than later, but it won't be Battle Ready for some time.

 

[Joe73191]

KingClubber don't worry about people saying, too aggro or too much powershielding or not human enough. First of all this is a competitive game lvl 9s should be as hard as possible no matter even if it's inhuman. Second you are the one coding so you should make it how YOU want to see it. You liking your creation is most important. I can't wait to see 3.01 im downloading it now. Thank you for all your hard work. ​

 

[Thanasiomedes]

I definitely appreciate all of the work that you are putting into the game. I have noticed that it doesn't seem like marth uses his short hop any more and that he dash dances on top of other characters. He also doesn't seem to be very good with spacing his sword and just roy spaces everything. Like I said I do apprieciate everything that you are doing and look forward to what you do in the future.

 

[BILL?]

Played some PM 3.01 earlier today, and I must say that the most of the CPU's which I played against have seriously improved.
Lucas was kinda fun to play against, and i don't recall a single "stupid" death. Most characters which I played recover well, I actually have to edgeguard the CPU's properly for them to die.
Diddy was good too, although he still has issues with controlling his upB. Dedede, sonic, and Ivysaur were all pretty good from what I saw.

I did notice a few strange CPU behaviors,
Fox did this weird "full jump -> triple shine" thing several times per game. It was incredibly odd, and it did not help him at all. He would do it regardless of my position on the stage: I could be offstage, I could be all the way across FD, I could be DD'ing right next to him, I could be in a place where it actually hits me.

I saw the same issues with the Run off>Aerial>SD, the captain falcon air dodge SD, and occasional issues with CPUs forgetting to KO. Example: My ZSS got grabbed by Lucas at something ridiculous like 200%, and he did a down throw, which didn't do much of anything. Uthrow would have been a guaranteed KO.

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

I just finished playing my first several hours of 3.01, and I was very impressed once again by the AI improvements. Keep doing what you're doing, KingClubber.

 

[BILL?]

KingClubber did an intervention for the desperately suicidal CPU's of PM. Countless stocks have been saved by his actions!

-> the improvement is real.

 

[KingClubber]

Glad you liked the improvements

@ BILL?

Thanks for telling me about that, some of those have been said already.

-The Fox Shine issue is very simple, AI's has this thing called 'ATKD' it controls the range of attacks, and also lets cpu's know what frame the attacks comes out while doing that attack. This is how AI are able to power shield almost every attack that hasn't been changed much from Brawl. Why this has been fix then?

Well look for yourself...

This is just Fox

Attack11 unk=0,start=1,end=2,xmin=3.00,xmax=16.00,ymin=6.00,ymax=13.00
Attack12 unk=0,start=1,end=3,xmin=2.00,xmax=17.00,ymin=2.00,ymax=12.00
Attack100 unk=0,start=0,end=20,xmin=0.00,xmax=15.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=18.00
AttackDash unk=0,start=3,end=15,xmin=5.00,xmax=31.00,ymin=3.00,ymax=11.00
AttackS3Hi_AttackS3S_ unk=0,start=5,end=8,xmin=4.00,xmax=17.00,ymin=6.00,ymax=15.00
AttackS3S unk=0,start=5,end=8,xmin=4.00,xmax=18.00,ymin=5.00,ymax=12.00
AttackS3Lw_AttackS3S_ unk=0,start=5,end=8,xmin=4.00,xmax=17.00,ymin=1.00,ymax=10.00
AttackHi3 unk=0,start=2,end=10,xmin=-14.00,xmax=10.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=22.00
AttackLw3 unk=0,start=6,end=9,xmin=3.00,xmax=18.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=6.00
AttackS4S unk=0,start=8,end=14,xmin=11.00,xmax=29.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=19.00
AttackHi4 unk=0,start=5,end=12,xmin=-11.00,xmax=14.00,ymin=6.00,ymax=24.00
AttackLw4 unk=0,start=2,end=12,xmin=-14.00,xmax=14.00,ymin=-4.00,ymax=7.00
AttackAirN unk=0,start=3,end=25,xmin=-5.00,xmax=10.00,ymin=1.00,ymax=10.00
AttackAirF unk=0,start=6,end=33,xmin=0.00,xmax=16.00,ymin=4.00,ymax=16.00
AttackAirB unk=0,start=8,end=11,xmin=2.00,xmax=-16.00,ymin=4.00,ymax=13.00
AttackAirHi unk=0,start=8,end=14,xmin=-5.00,xmax=6.00,ymin=7.00,ymax=27.00
AttackAirLw unk=0,start=4,end=24,xmin=-2.00,xmax=9.00,ymin=-1.00,ymax=11.00
Catch unk=0,start=5,end=7,xmin=2.00,xmax=14.00,ymin=3.00,ymax=12.00
CatchDash unk=0,start=10,end=12,xmin=5.00,xmax=21.00,ymin=2.00,ymax=11.00
CatchTurn unk=0,start=8,end=10,xmin=-13.00,xmax=5.00,ymin=4.00,ymax=12.00
DownAttackU unk=0,start=16,end=26,xmin=-22.00,xmax=20.00,ymin=-2.00,ymax=15.00
DownAttackD unk=0,start=18,end=26,xmin=-21.00,xmax=20.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=15.00
SlipAttack unk=0,start=18,end=26,xmin=-15.00,xmax=15.00,ymin=1.00,ymax=8.00
CliffAttackQuick unk=0,start=24,end=32,xmin=-2.00,xmax=36.00,ymin=14.00,ymax=31.00
CliffAttackSlow unk=0,start=55,end=58,xmin=7.00,xmax=32.00,ymin=17.00,ymax=27.00
Swing1 unk=0,start=3,end=7,xmin=8.00,xmax=36.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=16.00
Swing3 unk=0,start=8,end=11,xmin=2.00,xmax=36.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=20.00
Swing4 unk=0,start=5,end=8,xmin=5.00,xmax=45.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=13.50
SwingDash unk=0,start=4,end=17,xmin=6.00,xmax=53.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=13.00
Swing1_1 unk=0,start=3,end=7,xmin=5.00,xmax=28.00,ymin=-1.00,ymax=13.00
Swing3_1 unk=0,start=8,end=11,xmin=2.00,xmax=23.00,ymin=4.00,ymax=20.00
Swing4Bat unk=0,start=59,end=61,xmin=-4.00,xmax=20.00,ymin=4.00,ymax=15.00
SwingDash_1 unk=0,start=5,end=18,xmin=9.00,xmax=40.00,ymin=2.00,ymax=12.00
Swing1_2 unk=0,start=3,end=7,xmin=3.00,xmax=28.00,ymin=-2.00,ymax=13.00
Swing3_2 unk=0,start=7,end=11,xmin=0.00,xmax=23.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=20.00
Swing4_1 unk=0,start=5,end=9,xmin=0.00,xmax=24.00,ymin=-1.00,ymax=12.00
SwingDash_2 unk=0,start=5,end=18,xmin=7.00,xmax=43.00,ymin=-1.00,ymax=14.00
Swing1_3 unk=0,start=3,end=7,xmin=5.00,xmax=26.00,ymin=-1.00,ymax=12.00
Swing3_3 unk=0,start=7,end=11,xmin=0.00,xmax=22.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=20.00
Swing4_2 unk=0,start=5,end=9,xmin=2.00,xmax=23.00,ymin=-1.00,ymax=12.00
SwingDash_3 unk=0,start=5,end=18,xmin=10.00,xmax=40.00,ymin=2.00,ymax=13.00
Swing1_4 unk=0,start=3,end=7,xmin=3.00,xmax=23.00,ymin=-2.00,ymax=13.00
Swing3_4 unk=0,start=7,end=11,xmin=0.00,xmax=19.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=19.00
Swing4_3 unk=0,start=5,end=9,xmin=0.00,xmax=19.00,ymin=-1.00,ymax=11.00
SwingDash_4 unk=0,start=5,end=18,xmin=9.00,xmax=38.00,ymin=3.00,ymax=13.00
ItemScrew unk=0,start=0,end=20,xmin=-8.00,xmax=8.00,ymin=-4.00,ymax=12.00
ItemScrew_1 unk=0,start=0,end=20,xmin=-8.00,xmax=8.00,ymin=-4.00,ymax=12.00
ItemHammerWait unk=0,start=0,end=16,xmin=-15.00,xmax=19.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=26.00
ItemHammerMove unk=0,start=0,end=16,xmin=-15.00,xmax=19.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=26.00
ItemHammerAir unk=0,start=0,end=16,xmin=-15.00,xmax=19.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=26.00
SpecialS unk=0,start=1,end=3,xmin=-4.00,xmax=34.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=8.00
SpecialAirS unk=0,start=1,end=3,xmin=-4.00,xmax=34.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=8.00
SpecialSEnd unk=0,start=0,end=3,xmin=-36.00,xmax=7.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=8.00
SpecialAirSEnd unk=0,start=0,end=3,xmin=-36.00,xmax=7.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=8.00
SpecialHiHold unk=0,start=19,end=32,xmin=-8.00,xmax=8.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=16.00
SpecialHiHoldAir unk=0,start=19,end=32,xmin=-8.00,xmax=8.00,ymin=0.00,ymax=16.00
SpecialHi unk=0,start=0,end=30,xmin=-5.00,xmax=5.00,ymin=4.00,ymax=12.00

It's not only is this list long, or that this game has over 40+ characters.
See 'unk=0', we have have no idea what that is. I think i know what it is, if i'm correct it's 'Bone 0'. Character Models have bones that controls character animation. 'Bone 0' is usually at the very center of character. That mean i would have to measure each character attacks by the x/y-axis for each attack, not only is this very time consuming as i have no tools to help complete this, so i have to do this but trial and error. But it's not a very good system because attack aren't boxed like street fighter.

They're Bubbles, and the hitbox sizes can change.

So I would have to use my best judgement for each attack, and completely disregard hitbox size using the maximum range for each attack.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

I really think kingclubber should get some special mention in the PMBR considering all of the work he does completely by himself

appreciate everything your doing man, just wish someone would join you and lend a hand in all of this

 

[archedmaid]

I can beat lvl 9 AI all day with any character. They play in my opinion human like, but they don't do certain things. Like said earlier they are way aggro, so aggro that they will come towards me no matter what I could be the land master, using Lucarios special they will stand under me, using a warp star they will not dodge it but stand where I will land, and when I have invincibility from the star they don't run they just stand in front of me to die. That said they will not dodge projectiles at all I could hit them in the face with a home run bat all day or blast missiles at them. They also don't pick up items unless on accident, so no dragoon pieces, poke balls, super stars, assist trophies, or smash tokens. This includes when they just killed a player and have a couple of seconds to stand around and do nothing. They also will just stand there and let a Bobomb walk into them or some times hit a blast box until they explode.

I don't know if any of this has been brought up or not, but I feel if these things didn't happen the AI would be substantially harder given that you use items.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I'm afraid most of the AI tweaks being made don't take item use into consideration.

 

[archedmaid]

Well I guess at the very least dodging projectiles and bobombs would help a lot cause I can hit with an Aura Bomb every time. With link I can just Boomerang and arrow a million times in a row also and trap them every time.

 

[KingClubber]

I'm afraid most of the AI tweaks being made can't take item use into consideration.

Fixed

@ archedmaid - Not sure what your talking about but i can take a guess that MAYBE fixing the c4/stickybomb roll spam caused this. Bero was working on something for projectiles but it was never completed, maybe a future update will have a fix for your problem.

You can beat lvl.9 cpu's Congrats.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

... Huh

The AI sucking v/s projectiles isn't something I've noticed. If they do, godlike powershielding on every projectile should fix that *trollface* I'll check in a bit.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

its weird how sometimes lucario will do an ex forcepalm or two, and other times he just wont use a charge for the entire match. i refuse to fight ike or dk because they do silly things what lead to 2 minute matches. Also sheik luigi and meta knight are seriously addicted to n-air spamming, it like theyre being paid to do it. :/ and also does anyone notice that if you dont move they dont move either? i love how i can make a sandwich, eat it, and come back all without pausing and theyre polite enough to wait for me to finish.

 

[KingClubber]

its cool how sometimes lucario will do an ex forcepalm or two, and other times he just wont use a charge for the entire match even though his coding is still mostly Brawl's. i like to fight ike or dk because they do silly things what lead to 2 minute matches that remind me that these are cpu's and not real players. Also sheik luigi and meta knight are seriously addicted to n-air spamming, it like theyre being paid to do it. Must be why they're so at it. :/ and also does anyone notice that in 3.0 and not 3.01 that if you dont move they dont move either? i love how i can make a sandwich, eat it, and come back all without pausing and theyre polite enough to wait for me to finish.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Yesterday Lucas hit me with an up air, then proceeded to up air me 4 more times, tech chased me when i hit the floor then got a Up smash on me....... I never rage quit so hard in my life x3