The True Arena - Kirby MU Discussion "Weeks" 10/11: Ness, Meta Knight, Lucario and Lucas

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Nah........
Someone more like Pika,Shiek, or Captain falcon.
Idk someone more interesting that I have actually seen

 

[Togii]

Nah........
Someone more like Pika,Shiek, or Captain falcon.
Idk someone more interesting that I have actually seen

Mii Brawler will have representation at EVO, and has been proven to be a very strong character; possibly in the top 10, being used by M2K and Dapuffster to place very well. If anything, it would be MORE useful to discuss Mii Brawler if you haven't seen very much of them, as you have already played and seen those other matchups much more often.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Mii Brawler will have representation at EVO, and has been proven to be a very strong character; possibly in the top 10, being used by M2K and Dapuffster to place very well. If anything, it would be MORE useful to discuss Mii Brawler if you haven't seen very much of them, as you have already played and seen those other matchups much more often.

Huh.....ok then, I mean I won't understand his moveset mostly, but eh if it's important

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

M-M-Mii Brawler? Why the heck would we do him this week?

I think we should do Sheik, since she is a speculated top 2. But if ya wanna do mii brawler then f it why not yolo

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Played a Metaknight in tournament yesterday and realized I have no clue what to do in the matchuP. Does anyone have any tips or should I wait for the matchup discussion in whatever week it happens ?

 

[JS2D]

Played a Metaknight in tournament yesterday and realized I have no clue what to do in the matchuP. Does anyone have any tips or should I wait for the matchup discussion in whatever week it happens ?

It's on the previous page.

 

[Unknownkid]

I am part of the Mii Fighter Group and I can write a piece about Mii Brawler vs Kirby from what I know. However, I don't think we should this matchup yet. Let's do someone we all have some experience with first. Mii Brawler are rare. Even the legendary brawler main itself hasn't fought a good kirby yet but based on paper... it is in Brawler Favor. Only person who can do a proper analysis is @ t!MmY since one of T0mmy's main is Mii Brawler.

T!mmy already destroy the Sheik and Diddy match up. We might as well just take his analysis. I rather do Sonic, Fox or something.

 

[Togii]

Alright, how about this. We're obviously not having any discussion this week. Vote here (http://strawpoll.me/4310563) to decide who we will start discussing on Monday. I'll leave this up over the weekend so everyone that wants to participate has a chance to vote. I chose who was on the poll based on who I think the top characters are right now, minus Diddy and Sheik, due to T!mmy already basically making guides for those matchups.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

I'm not even lying, I think we need more admins. @Asdioh or @ kirbyfan66 would make great admins, always active and contribute a lot. Even though Asdioh didn't update last time, we still need new admins.

 

[Togii]

I'm honestly fine with handling this thread unofficially until Reserved decides to drop back in again. I'm just surprised that he made this new thread because Asidoh wasn't maintaining the other one, then he supposedly ditches this one in less than 2 weeks.

 

[kirbyfan66]

I'm flattered that you think I would make a great mod!

With that said, until Reserved comes back for this thread, then @ Togii running it is fine by me. Seemed to take charge at a reasonable time and had a good idea with the Strawpoll and whatnot.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I'm honestly fine with handling this thread unofficially until Reserved decides to drop back in again. I'm just surprised that he made this new thread because Asidoh wasn't maintaining the other one, then he supposedly ditches this one in less than 2 weeks.

Yea this is good getting rediculous

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Togii, go ahead and run it, by being active for at least one MU makes you better at maintaining this thread than Reserved (Cough still no DDD ratio EVEN THOUGH WE FINISHED MK ALREADY ugh)

 

[RedNova]

Maybe we should try to finish the MK matchup. Just by posting one analyzing what has been said and an overall score, just to keep it for reference until Reserved updates the main thread.

 

[Togii]

Alright, the weekend is over and the results are in. This week's discussion will be on

Sonic the Hedgehog

Please try to follow the format in the thread's original post. For custom moves, put them under additional notes or create a separate section for them in your analysis.

 

[Togii]

Meta Knight Matchup Discussion Summary

Ratio: 55:45
Stages: Final Destination, Delfino Plaza
Bans: Halberd
Custom Moves: 3233/3231
Play carefully and patiently

Spoiler

Togii
Ratio: 52.5:47.5
Stages: Final Destination, Delfino Plaza, Duck Hunt
Custom Moves: 3233
Notes: Try to avoid being above MK, matchup is played defensively

Mazdamaxsti
Ratio: 55:45
Stages: Final Destination, Delfino Plaza, Duck Hunt
Notes: Play carefully, bait his specials, don't let him land smashes

warionumbah2
Ratio: 42.5:57.5
Stages: Final Destination
Notes: MK can edgeguard and camp Kirby better than Kirby can do the same to him

kirbyfan66
Ratio: 55:45
Stages: Delfino Plaza, Final Destination, Lylat Cruise
Custom Moves: 3231/3233
Notes: Wave Cutter can be useful if you're careful with it

 

[RedNova]

@Togi Awesome! If we could have one of them for each matchup it'll be excellent, but I don't think there's much space in the main post. I could help you if you want, with other matchups that I'm more familiar with.

Edit: the triple post tho, lol

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Meta Knight Matchup Discussion Summary

Ratio: 52.5:47.5
Stages: Final Destination, Delfino Plaza
Bans: Halberd
Custom Moves: 3233/3231
Play carefully and patiently

Spoiler

Togii
Ratio: 52.5:47.5
Stages: Final Destination, Delfino Plaza, Duck Hunt
Custom Moves: 3233
Notes: Try to avoid being above MK, matchup is played defensively

Mazdamaxsti
Ratio: 55:45
Stages: Final Destination, Delfino Plaza, Duck Hunt
Notes: Play carefully, bait his specials, don't let him land smashes

warionumbah2
Ratio: 42.5:57.5
Stages: Final Destination
Notes: MK can edgeguard and camp Kirby better than Kirby can do the same to him

kirbyfan66
Ratio: 55:45
Stages: Delfino Plaza, Final Destination, Lylat Cruise
Custom Moves: 3231/3233
Notes: Wave Cutter can be useful if you're careful with it

Nice! One thing I noticed is that we gave the ratio 52.5, when if you average the scorss together it averages to 51.25 (so basically 51). Shouldn't we make it so the MUs are averaged from everyone's scores?

 

[kirbyfan66]

Nice! One thing I noticed is that we gave the ratio 52.5, when if you average the scorss together it averages to 51.25 (so basically 51). Shouldn't we make it so the MUs are averaged from everyone's scores?

Honestly, I think doing anything other than x0:x0 or x5:x5 is too complicated and we should stick to those. That's just me, though.

Anyway, I have a lot of experience vs. Sonic, so when I get the chance next (super tired at the moment) I'll contribute my thoughts.

 

[RedNova]

Honestly, I think doing anything other than x0:x0 or x5:x5 is too complicated and we should stick to those. That's just me, though.

Anyway, I have a lot of experience vs. Sonic, so when I get the chance next (super tired at the moment) I'll contribute my thoughts.

Yeah, same here... The only Sonic I have fought does not have single bit of agression in his body, so I can always counter his approaches.

 

[kirbyfan66]

Yeah, same here... The only Sonic I have fought does not have single bit of agression in his body, so I can always counter his approaches.

Actually, the Sonic I play against is very offensive. A lot of people play Sonic defensively but he should really be played the other way around. =P

I'm busy at the moment, but when I'm available I'll type up a big post about the Sonic matchup.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

My friend mains Sonic so I know a bit about the MU, I will post when I get home.

 

[kirbyfan66]

I wouldn't say the numbers upset me, so to speak, but I think it makes the system more complicated than it needs to be. 55:45 is basically saying the same thing as those numbers - that the matchup is super slightly in Kirby's favor - just without the decimals.

 

[Bribery]

I think it would be worthwhile doing 2-3 characters per week like some other character boards do, just to speed things up and get more activity in the thread. Kirby is really uncommon at a high level so I don't think we're going to get much discussion if we only stick to 1 character per week.


Regarding the Sonic MU, Seagull Joe thinks it's +1 in favor of Sonic without customs http://smashboards.com/threads/character-competitive-impressions.367669/page-646#post-19179366
I think that translates to 40:60 in favor of Sonic?

 

[Sparky15]

The Sonic MU is definitely in Sonic's favor. Since Sonic is so difficult to land a hit on, this could be a while for someone like Kirby. Moreover, Sonic can KO him with all his smash attacks, f-throw, up-throw, back-air and still back-throw. And last, but not least, recovering below the ledge is way more risky than from above, because Sonic has a lot more edge guarding options below than above from my experiences.

Kirby's advantages do not at least match Sonic's. Kirby could solely bait out Sonic's attacks, attempt to find openings, and punish accordingly to the best of his ability. That even depends on the circumstances in the match. That's all I know so far.

Besides a repeated jab1, if there are other safe options to beat out Sonic's Spin Dash, this could increase our chances at this MU. I agree with Seagull's ratio of 60:40 in Sonic's favor for now.

 

[t!MmY]

Only person who can do a proper analysis is @ t!MmY since one of T0mmy's main is Mii Brawler.

I wanted to drop in and say that I'll do a write-up for you guys, just haven't had time to sit down and finish it yet. Also, I'll try to get @T0MMY in here to write something from the Brawler side of things since he has an extremely good grasp on fighting Kirby.

Mii Fighter is my favorite newcomer in SSB4. I play all three types of Mii, so I understand the character inside and out.

 

[Agent Emerald]

The Sonic matchup is painful. Sonic runs circles around Kirby, and he has as many options out of his spindash as we do out of dair. It doesn't help that he can chase even in the air thanks to his spring.

As a sidenote, I really hate how Sonic's back throw is a kill move because it feels like one of those moves that shouldn't kill. I know Kirby's light, but Sonic's Bthrow doesn't have that oompf feeling if you know what I mean.

 

[Sparky15]

I know we didn't analyze Sonic that much, but maybe our next MU should be Bowser or R.O.B. Those are soo bad for Kirby.

 

[Togii]

Yeah, idk where all the people who voted to discuss Sonic are lol. I don't really have any Sonic mu experience. We'll definitely return to him at a later date.

Fox has the second most votes on the poll, so we'll say that Fox will be this week's matchup.

There's a pretty good Fox around these parts, so I'll see if I can play against him sometime this week to get a feel for the matchup.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Yeah, idk where all the people who voted to discuss Sonic are lol. I don't really have any Sonic mu experience. We'll definitely return to him at a later date.

Fox has the second most votes on the poll, so we'll say that Fox will be this week's matchup.

There's a pretty good Fox around these parts, so I'll see if I can play against him sometime this week to get a feel for the matchup.

I think we should do what someone above said and do more then one character a week. We should discuss Pikachu with Fox too.

 

[Togii]

I think we should do what someone above said and do more then one character a week. We should discuss Pikachu with Fox too.

If Reserved doesn't take this thread back by the end of the week, I will be making my own thread and two matchups will be discussed per week. Until then, I'm going to go by this thread's guidelines and suggest one matchup per week.

Of course, I can't control what anyone posts here, so go ahead and discuss Pikachu as well if you must.

 

[RedNova]

If Reserved doesn't take this thread back by the end of the week, I will be making my own thread and two matchups will be discussed per week. Until then, I'm going to go by this thread's guidelines and suggest one matchup per week.

Of course, I can't control what anyone posts here, so go ahead and discuss Pikachu as well if you must.

Should we keep all the matchups we have done as of yet? Also, there are some atchups we haven't done, but are in the maim post, like Megaman.

 

[Agent Emerald]

Togii and Asdioh for mods 2015

This matchup is a fun one since both characters are good with combos, but both are kinda hurt for different reasons. Kirby can escape combos more easily thanks to his weight, and Kirby's mobility is a bit troubled. Fox's nature as a fastfaller actually works against him here because utilt can get Fox to 30+ percent even with DI and move staling. We should be really wary of approaching fox from above since his most popular kill options are both upward attacks. Being Fox offstage is suffering. Not Mac suffering, but still a bit suffering Nair and fair can beat out Fox Illusion if you time it right, but even then you can exploit its endlag. Beating out Fire fox is weird (at least for me) but it's doable.

I wish I had better stage knowledge so I could recommend a stage to take Fox to, but I don't think we'll have any real stage advantage since Fox is at least decent on every stage.

 

[Sparky15]

I have experience with the Fox MU. I recommend playing patiently. Committing too much could result in a serious predicament for Kirby. Fox is also capable of KOing Kirby fairly easily, with all of his smash attacks, situationally up-tilt, b-air, and up-air. Combined with nimble movement, and it's difficult to perform reactively well. Kirby just needs to stay calm when in pressure from him. Howevet, Fox is light, has a somewhat linear recovery, and is a fast-faller. This means that Kirby himself can easily KO him as well, edge guard him well, and can up-tilt juggle VERY effectively.

I wish I had better stage knowledge so I could recommend a stage to take Fox to, but I don't think we'll have any real stage advantage since Fox is at least decent on every stage.

I think most of the stages are mostly good for Fox. Maybe Town and City could be nice for Kirby, but that's all I know. This is probably 52.5:47.5 in Fox's favor.

 

[Togii]

I think most of the stages are mostly good for Fox. Maybe Town and City could be nice for Kirby, but that's all I know. This is probably 52.5:47.5 in Fox's favor.

I feel like T&C would favor Fox, seeing as it has a low-ish ceiling and he likes to KO primarily off the top. What are your reasons for it favoring Kirby?

 

[Sparky15]

I feel like T&C would favor Fox, seeing as it has a low-ish ceiling and he likes to KO primarily off the top. What are your reasons for it favoring Kirby?

I think it's nice for up-throw KOs for Kirby in certain platform layouts. I don't remember T&C having a low ceiling, though.

 

[RedNova]

Well finally a matchup I can talk about.

• Pros: Fox is a fast faller, so you can uptilt him until he's at 30% and finish with either nAir, bAir or fAir depending on where he tries to escape.Or you can continue to juggle him with upAirs.

Although you can't KO him easily, if he's offstage, edgeguarding him is really easy, as his recovery is pretty linear. You just need to time it right.
His projectiles also don't pose a threaat to you, as you can duck under them.

• Cons: Unforrtunately for Kirby, he dies really early to up smash and upAir, so don't be afraid to use all of your jumps to bait those moves.

• Copy Ability: In this matchup is really useless, as Fox has a reflector. Use it just for the disrespect.

• Stage Picks: I don't have that much experience here, but I suggest stages that have high ceiling, so you can avoid getting koed early.

• Customs: As always, Upper Cutter is always useful, as you can prevent Fox from reflecting the wave/final cutter. Meteor Stone can be used to gimp his recovery, as Fire Fox is slow, and can kill him as early as 10%.

Ice Breath is useful by negating Fox Ilusion, but Jumping Inhale can be used to get Fox offstage so you can gimp him.
Avoid Giant Hammer as Fox's speed can allow him to grab you before you can release it.

• Overall Score: (Btw, what format are we using?) I'm gonna go with 60:40 in Kirby's favor. Even with the disadvantages, if Kirby plays patiently, he can combo him offstage and proceed with the gimp, not having much trouble with his (in this matchup) superior aerial mobility.

 

[Spirst]

If Reserved doesn't take this thread back by the end of the week, I will be making my own thread and two matchups will be discussed per week. Until then, I'm going to go by this thread's guidelines and suggest one matchup per week.

Of course, I can't control what anyone posts here, so go ahead and discuss Pikachu as well if you must.

Seeing as how he's been off the site since Thursday and really busy as he said, I doubt it'll be updated by the end of this week. For the meantime, I'll be stepping in to help run this seeing as how I can edit the OP here. I also think more than one MU should be discussed (Mewtwo/Greninja boards do about 3 a week) so I'll concede and do 2 for here.

Based on requests, this week will be Fox and Pikachu. If any of you can go to their respective boards and invite them here, that'd be helpful since I'm usually pretty busy and now watch over like 5 character boards.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Finally.

I'm not gonna write a ton, but I think the Fox MU is 45:55 and the Pikachu is 35:65. Both not very nice MUs.

 

[Togii]

If any of you can go to their respective boards and invite them here, that'd be helpful since I'm usually pretty busy and now watch over like 5 character boards.

Done.

I'll still be making that thread at the end of the week, but thanks for stepping in for the time being.