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Meta "The Saikyo Dojo" Ryu Metagame Discussion.

DD_

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Feb 10, 2008
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Also, have we seen anyone experiment with getting EX DP OoS?
This is very easy to do IF you shield stop and keep holding foward. seems that the foward is still buffered while beild held so you can just drop the sheld and dp quickly enough to punish stuff
 

yttik

Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
205
So, guys, any point at all in using the weaker versions of his special moves, except the fact that they're "quicker" to execute in a tight situation?
i think light shoryu could have a use at low percents and you should probably just use heavy shoryu to recover intead of doing the DP, it seems too risky.
 

Mr.Morph

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Feb 13, 2015
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I found something pretty interesting:
If you do a Fast Fall Dair against a grounded opponent, you can actually true combo into shoryuken from 0 to ~80 %. I tried it only against Pikachu yet. It does around 29%.
Please correct me if you find sth odd.
I'll look if I can verify it:)
Oh, and it kills Pikachu at 80%
 
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Mr.Morph

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Feb 13, 2015
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So, been playing Ryu since he's come out, feel like he's got a ton of potential with his FPDC and cancels. A good ryu will be a force to be reckoned with.
Yeah especially considering the fact that Ruy has more Normals than every other Character in Smash.
 

Vyrnx

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Just a few questions for people who are doing well with Ryu right now...

What are Ryu's reliable approach options? Right now I tend to use air dodges into aerials. Since his landing lag is so low it can often lead into dtilt combos, etc if they shield. But since his jump height is so low, it is easy for me to not jump in deep enough and then I get punished.

Should Ryu always be played aggressively, or is his defensive game okay?

And what is the practical purpose of FADC? Assuming I am doing it right you only move a very short distance, but I keep hearing about setups. I just don't see how, though. Thanks in advance
 

ofna01

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Just a few questions for people who are doing well with Ryu right now...

What are Ryu's reliable approach options? Right now I tend to use air dodges into aerials. Since his landing lag is so low it can often lead into dtilt combos, etc if they shield. But since his jump height is so low, it is easy for me to not jump in deep enough and then I get punished.

Should Ryu always be played aggressively, or is his defensive game okay?

And what is the practical purpose of FADC? Assuming I am doing it right you only move a very short distance, but I keep hearing about setups. I just don't see how, though. Thanks in advance
I actually mainly use FADC as a tool for mindgames, trying to bait people into shielding or spotdodging and then punishing.
 

Solaris_Noid

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Just a few questions for people who are doing well with Ryu right now...

What are Ryu's reliable approach options? Right now I tend to use air dodges into aerials. Since his landing lag is so low it can often lead into dtilt combos, etc if they shield. But since his jump height is so low, it is easy for me to not jump in deep enough and then I get punished.

Should Ryu always be played aggressively, or is his defensive game okay?

And what is the practical purpose of FADC? Assuming I am doing it right you only move a very short distance, but I keep hearing about setups. I just don't see how, though. Thanks in advance
It's basically another way to bait attacks/movement. Since it absorbs a hit you can release it afterward and if they're close it'll connect.

For approaches, I do air FADC's but it's very predictable so I wouldn't abuse it. As for his defensive game, you can't really Hadouken zone/camp with him because only one fireball can be on the screen at the same time. Shoryuken is an invincible reversal so you can use that if you've got people on you, but just like in SF if it whiffs then you can get punished hard.
 
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ofna01

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It's basically another way to bait attacks/movement. Since it absorbs a hit you can release it afterward and if they're close it'll connect.

For approaches, I do air FADC's but it's very predictable so I wouldn't abuse it. As for his defensive game, you can't really Hadouken zone/camp with him because only one fireball can be on the screen at the same time. Shoryuken is an invincible reversal so you can use that if you've got people on you, but just like in SF if it whiffs then you can get punished hard.
I try to think of FADC as a janky wavedash, so I'll often FADC and back forth to confuse them a bit then FADC into a heavy jab or a grab. Doesn't work alot, but works well when it does.
 

busken

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Nov 28, 2014
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One cosmetic thing about Ryu is that the auditory effects on his shieldstun and histun can actually affect momentum. If anybody has played against brawl Ike you know what I'm talking about. This in turn, makes his offensive game even more deadly.
 

GiMiX

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It's going to be fun explaining to the smash bros all the street fighter 4 lingo haha.

Here are some things I found that I haven't read while skimming this post:

-His Dair on grounded opponents doesn't move them much even at 100%, allowing you to follow up with uTilt - Ex Shoryuken for a kill.
-His Fair is absolutely delicious. The sour hit can combo into shoryu as a finisher or jabs and tilt combos. If you land the big hit you can go for another or Up Air.
-His Fair also seems to be intangible. You can blow up villagers rocket and kick him without getting hurt.
-His Nair jab locks, which leads into focus attack and then bad things happen. It also sets up a tech chase at medium - high percentages
-C.Mk (Fierce down tilt?) sets up a tech chase/jab lock around 40%
-His Fierce up tilt is pretty strong and has deceptive range. You can use this on people trying to jump from the ledge.
 

Meistermayo

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What ive learned so far about Ryu


Kill moves

Fsmash (upwards of 100)
Usmash (upwards of 130)
Dair (spike)

INPUT SHORYUKEN
Input shoryuken kills above 90 easily and has less landing lag on the ground. While it is still punishable in the air, you have options if you are able to land.


Tilts

Light utilt juggles pretty consistently like a lot of others in the game. You can do light utilt 2-5 times to shoryuken or heavy utilt to shoryuken below kill percent.

I tend to use light dtilt for tick throws, and heavy dtilt i havent been able to use much. You can do heavy dtilt to hadoken just like street fighter tho.

Light ftilt seems to pop up characters at low percents fir followups. You can chase in the air or bait an airdodge and grab them.
I havent experimented too closely with collarbone breaker tho. It has just enough knockback to push people away and not enough to keep pressure on them.


The first hit of jab is cancelable into specials. Heavy jab does as much damage as a full combo but has more knockback.

Quirks

Note that ryu cannot change his air trajectory easily. This is due to sf mechanics that keep ryu true to his game and ends up balancing him in a way. Be a tad careful when jumping.

Perfect shielding feels easier, maybe he has more perfect shielding frames due to his parry?

Iasa frames feel almost shorter than megamans.

Special's traits
Tatsu beats projectiles after it starts up just like in sf.

Only input shoryuken has invincibility

Shankunetsu hadoken CAN BE SHIELDED EVEN IF THE FIRST HIT LANDS and does has ONE hit of armor (normal hadoken destroys it) i recommend using input hadoken instead of shankunetsu.

Hadoken loses to most projectiles, but it still beats gordo.

Level 2 fadc takes a long time to charge
(Level 1: launches, just press and release
Level 2: crumple, flashes yellow
Level 3: hour-long crumple, full charge)

Aerials

Nair 8%, super quick recovery. Nair to grab or input dp might work.

Fair 15% almost as much damage fsmash.

Bair 16% as much damage as fmaahs, more knockback than fair.

Dair 12% spikes

Uair 11% good for air followups, dthrow juggles.


Throws

All throws do 9% except for bthrow whitch does 12.

Dthrow combos into stuff like uair, shoryuken or sometimes utilt.
 

Pocket Freye

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Sorry if this is already known, but apparently you cannot jump onto SV's platform with a single jump, you have to use your double jump to reach it. Is this a potential mandatory ban for Ryu players?
 

Samura1man

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Been playing a lot with Ryu, since yesterday, he really is good character, I main Luigi and I would see Ryu to become my secondary. He's really technical character to play with, all of the SF inputs were new to me, I only knew how to do Hadouken input. I would see Ryu to be one of the best characters in the game whenever someone has mastered him, I can see someone to win tournaments with Ryu.

For matchups, I cannot say much, it is really early to say when he was released yesterday, he has lots of potential for combos, mindgames with focus attack, shoryuken for quick kills and punishes.

I'm looking forward to anyone who will main Ryu, I'm interested to see how they play
 

AdaptiveTrigger

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I'm having such a hard time using this character. I'm glad he was included, but man is he hard to play. I have a lot of difficulty dealing with rolling and I just can't seem to grasp his neutral game yet.
 

meleebrawler

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What ive learned so far about Ryu

Kill moves

Fsmash (upwards of 100)
Usmash (upwards of 130)
Dair (spike)

INPUT SHORYUKEN
Input shoryuken kills above 90 easily and has less landing lag on the ground. While it is still punishable in the air, you have options if you are able to land.


Tilts

Light utilt juggles pretty consistently like a lot of others in the game. You can do light utilt 2-5 times to shoryuken or heavy utilt to shoryuken below kill percent.

I tend to use light dtilt for tick throws, and heavy dtilt i havent been able to use much. You can do heavy dtilt to hadoken just like street fighter tho.

Light ftilt seems to pop up characters at low percents fir followups. You can chase in the air or bait an airdodge and grab them.
I havent experimented too closely with collarbone breaker tho. It has just enough knockback to push people away and not enough to keep pressure on them.


The first hit of jab is cancelable into specials. Heavy jab does as much damage as a full combo but has more knockback.

Quirks

Note that ryu cannot change his air trajectory easily. This is due to sf mechanics that keep ryu true to his game and ends up balancing him in a way. Be a tad careful when jumping.

Perfect shielding feels easier, maybe he has more perfect shielding frames due to his parry?

Iasa frames feel almost shorter than megamans.

Special's traits
Tatsu beats projectiles after it starts up just like in sf.

Only input shoryuken has invincibility

Shankunetsu hadoken CAN BE SHIELDED EVEN IF THE FIRST HIT LANDS and does has ONE hit of armor (normal hadoken destroys it) i recommend using input hadoken instead of shankunetsu.

Hadoken loses to most projectiles, but it still beats gordo.

Level 2 fadc takes a long time to charge
(Level 1: launches, just press and release
Level 2: crumple, flashes yellow
Level 3: hour-long crumple, full charge)

Aerials

Nair 8%, super quick recovery. Nair to grab or input dp might work.

Fair 15% almost as much damage fsmash.

Bair 16% as much damage as fmaahs, more knockback than fair.

Dair 12% spikes

Uair 11% good for air followups, dthrow juggles.


Throws

All throws do 9% except for bthrow whitch does 12.

Dthrow combos into stuff like uair, shoryuken or sometimes utilt.
There is one good thing about shakunetsu: it's very weak when absorbed.:rolleyes:
 

CelestialMarauder~

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I labbed around for a little bit to try making sense of him and heres some general stuff i found that might not have been said but was probably found already.

Random things to keep in mind about focus attack

Ryu Blinks Yellow twice to indicated the level of charge on the focus attack
  • First charge deals 12% and has low knockback but seemingly decent hitstun (according to training mode i could FADC nair after it but we all know how training mode lies sometimes)
  • Second charge (after the first yellow blink) deals 10% and crumples. Without a FADC you can still follow up with any of Ryus grounded normals or specials including grabs but excluding Fsmash as long as you buffer the input (for a lot of inputs you dont even need to buffer it). You can follow up with Fsmash, but you need to FADC backwards before inputting the fsmash.
  • Third Charge (after the second blink) deals a whopping 17%, cannot be shielded, and full crumples. You can follow this up with literally anything with complete leniency including charge moves. This will crumple people even if they are in the air when it connects (think zss paralyzer)
Focus attack will never crumple on someone who's shield has been broken
Focus attack loses its super armor after either the first time that ryu is hit, or right before the focus attack comes out. Which ever comes first.
You can buffer out of the FADC so after a focus attack connects, FADC foward into an input shoryuken is the easiest way to land it and will also ensure that it is sweetspotted.

Other general things
Ex hadouken is great to punish ledge getups with can potentially cover all options. You can also grab out of it if you're quick enough. Also works well for tech chasing.

You can combo into a shoryu but what what i've seen you can't combo into the sweetspot reliably at kill percents.

I've seen other things but most of them I know for a fact have been said already
 

Z1GMA

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At mid %s, Ryu can sorta Ken Combo with weak Nair > Dair off stage. It's pretty awesome.
 

UltimaLuminaire

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@ Vyrnx Vyrnx What's wrong with just walking at your opponent? Ryu is crazy scary when he's just walking towards someone.
 
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.Shìkì

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@ Vyrnx Vyrnx What's wrong with just walking at your opponent? Ryu is crazy scary when he's just walking towards some one.
If your opponent plays campy Link (or pit/dark pit) you'll know simply walking towards them won't work. Like, at all. Disjointed hitboxes + projectilespam + multihitting moves/smashes are poison. Although i was told you can actually intercept Links side-smash if you release Focus Attack immediatly when the first hit connects...not that i can test it though, since i played my first few FG matches today, and had a 0.5-07 second input delay against all opponents...so until i figure out how i get rid of this (or if i just had really bad luck with opponents), playing by reacting like i usually do is impossible. Aswell as getting out any kind of combo. Well and my sister who i played against earlier today is already asleep, so that is out, too X)
 
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UltimaLuminaire

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@ .Shìkì .Shìkì Power shield it. Walking power shield is great in this game. You could also punch the projectiles out of the air.
 
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ancara22

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Oct 6, 2006
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84
think I found a big thing of note: You can combo a lot of things like you can in SF4. For example, you can do a light tap jab into Hadouken, Shoryuken, Tatsu and so forth if your input's quick enough and you do the actual inputs for them.

And even bigger still: If you do a light tap Uair, then do this input quickly ( :GCU::GCUL::GCL::GCDL::GCD::GCDR::GCR::GCA: ), you'll then throw out an EX multi-hit Hadouken, and it will hit your opponent from low to fairly high %. Very huge for Ryu's combo antics, especially if his combo game is about the same as it is in SF4 and its iterations. And even more-so if we can better understand what all can combo into what.

It's like experiencing Marth's metagame evolving all over again.
 

Pippin (Peregrin Took)

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So yeah, ryu's looking to become another one of my mains. He's got everything I look for in a fighter, mainly a dependable projectile and a strong horizontal recovery. I'm still trying to get used to the SF style inputs - it seems like you have to be on solid ground to start the inputs because otherwise I just find myself doing a short dash and jab. Most of the time I just stick with the basic B inputs. Maybe if I used the wii remote (gasp!) to have the dpad for movement it might help? I know a lot of traditional fighting game players prefer the dpad for these kinds of inputs.

That does bring up an interesting question though. "SF Groove" (the special inputs) obviously hits harder, but "SB Groove" (B button) certainly still works in a pinch, especially if I need to recover. Is switching between these two options situational and if so, how do we make the most out of it? Or am I just stating the obvious?
 

PChron

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I've noticed that Ryu's strong jab kills, a lot (if I'm not mistaken). Does anyone know if that's consistent for all characters at a certain percent?
Damn, I don't think I know of any characters that have a kill jab at reasonable percents...
 

.Shìkì

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@ .Shìkì .Shìkì Power shield it. Walking power shield is great in this game. You could also punch the projectiles out of the air.
I'll try it the moment the input-lag falls below ~150 ms for me. With the current one i have problems reflecting Links slow-ass bombs with Nayrus love, and his arrows with Palutenas side B (don't ask... after 1 win and then 5 concecutive losses agains a FG projectile-and-smashes-spamming + perma-rolling link I lost my patience and went Palutena for perma reflect and counter X) ) without either spamming it or having at least half the stage between him and me...Otherwise the input wouldn't register in time to activate t.t

I've noticed that Ryu's strong jab kills, a lot (if I'm not mistaken). Does anyone know if that's consistent for all characters at a certain percent?
Damn, I don't think I know of any characters that have a kill jab at reasonable percents...
Robins Fire-Jab kills around the same range I believe.
 
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PChron

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So yeah, ryu's looking to become another one of my mains. He's got everything I look for in a fighter, mainly a dependable projectile
I wouldn't exactly call Ryu's projectile dependable. It's strong sure, but you can only use it two times in a row, which kind of limits its use outside of combos. I kinda doubt you should use his projectile to rack up damage like you would for fox or falco, but I don't see it strong enough to kill like samus's. Does the strong version even kill at high percents?
 

Pippin (Peregrin Took)

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Eh, maybe dependable's not the best word - it's not something I'd spam as much as say the Pits' arrows (which really I probably shouldn't be spamming anything lol), but I just like having something to work with from afar. Also it reminds me a lot of swordfighter's tornado. You get a tiny boost for recovery by using it in the air, and it seems like it would make a good "wall" for eating other projectiles but I need to do more research.
 

PChron

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Eh, maybe dependable's not the best word - it's not something I'd spam as much as say the Pits' arrows (which really I probably shouldn't be spamming anything lol), but I just like having something to work with from afar. Also it reminds me a lot of swordfighter's tornado. You get a tiny boost for recovery by using it in the air, and it seems like it would make a good "wall" for eating other projectiles but I need to do more research.
On that subject, I would like to find out if it blocks other projectiles. I'm 90% sure the answer is "no"
 

Renegade TX2000

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I think the next thing we should focus on is Combos out of normals into FADC. Example.

Down TIlt hold where he does cr.mk, then FADC Dash forward uppercut or uair.
 

Kaladin

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So, I realize everyone is trying to figure this out right now... But I'm thinking of picking up Ryu. What do I need to know? Could someone list the inputs to make his specials stronger? Thanks!
 

meleebrawler

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So, I realize everyone is trying to figure this out right now... But I'm thinking of picking up Ryu. What do I need to know? Could someone list the inputs to make his specials stronger? Thanks!
It says in the game if you check his nonexistent customs, but here:

Down>Down-Forward>Forward+B = Hadoken.
Back>Down>Down-Forward>Forward+B = Shakunetsu (Red) Hadoken
Down>Down-Backward>Back+B = Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku (Hurricane Kick)
Forward>Down>Down-Forward+B = Shoryuken (Dragon Uppercut)

You can also use the A button for the inputs. Holding the button for varying lengths of time also adjusts the moves
(speed for the Hadokens, distance for hurricane kicks and shoryuken).
 

Elessar

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If you use the grab button to input the special you will always get the weak version. This way you can use a different button for different special strength. Use and hold A for the fast hard hitting one and Z (grab button) for the slow weak version.
 

SmashShadow

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Been trying to test out how useful rising Tatsumaki is. I sometimes uses it as sort of a neutral air on on battlefield-like stages when trying to attack enemies on one of the two lower platforms when they are above me. It seems pretty safe as landing on the opposite platform drastically decreases the amount of time you're in the air. I'm also finding it good as a mixup when recovering instead of saving my jump for after a side b and taking the lower route, just flying over the opponent.
 
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I've found that making use of mid-air Hadouken offstage when recovering actually is of notable assistance to Ryu's recovery since it causes him to float up and forwards a tiny bit (especially helpful when B-Reversed with Ryu's back facing the stage due to what seems to be a little more forwards momentum which comes from the B-Reverse), akin to Mario's Cape or the first swing of Marth's Dancing Blade when they first use it in the air.

Combining that with a Dash Canceled Focus Attack (forwards) I believe really helps Ryu's recovery horizontally since Tatsumaki can be unreliable if recovering at around ledge level without using right after a Double Jump (of course, you'd Dash Cancel the Focus Attack well before this height, because doing it there would essentially mean death because of Focus Attack's slower startup before the Dash Cancel can come out).
 
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