Meta "The Saikyo Dojo" Ryu Metagame Discussion.

[Gawain]

But....how do you the QCB for the enhanced Tatsumaki without doing a Hadoken in the wrong direction? Either Ryu has some weird turn-around physics, or you have to do it pretty darn fast, and consistently...

Doubly so for the enhanced Shoryuken, wouldn't want your invincible vertical recovery turning into a horizontal recovery beneath the ledge....

Good question on tatsu. I'm willing to bet that it just records your previous facing or something similar.

 

[Ffamran]

>Up air has deceptively large range

H O O H A A C O N F I R M E D B O Y S.

Uair might be able to go into Shoryuken like how Meta Knight, Mario, and ZSS can Uair to Up Special, but who knows.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You might not want to claim that Ryu is broken before he is even playable. Everybody said the exact same thing about Palutena before the game was even released, and check out what people think of her now.

I don't think Ryu will be broken. It's just that we haven't played him ourselves so we are trying to imagine how he will play based off what has already been shown to us.

ummm as soon as i saw her tilts i knew she would be ass

Ryus neutral already looks leagues ahead of about half the cast.

 

[Nexin]

ummm as soon as i saw her tilts i knew she would be ***

Ryus neutral already looks leagues ahead of about half the cast.

Actually, we only knows about his punish game. We don't know anything about his neutral.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding pessimistic. I'm excited about Ryu myself, but I don't want to call him overpowered until after we have already gotten our hands on him. Honestly, we know very little about him, so he probably a good number of weaknesses that we aren't even considering.

 

[Champ Gold]

I feel like Ryu is gonna have a tough time with these characters.



It's the situation but Ryu has a standing chance against Puff. But her incredible air game might neutralize Ryu's ground game unless he is relying more on hadoukens.


The same but range might out do him since Ryu has a lot of options with handling Meta Knight


Those rockets and slingshots are gonna be nightmare to deal with and there isn't a lot of opportunities to handle Villager's extreme camping and projectile base moveset plus, how much damage a pocketed Hadouken can do



That speed and size will have a major advantage over them. Especially how much damage the t can deal out in a quick minute.


His speed and damage output is devastating and he can put up 70% if your not paying attention. Plus his aerials and smash attacks can force Ryu into a situation where he has to slow down Falcon and that isn't hard

 

[AreJay25]

Wait, do we know if you can do Focus Attack in the air? Could be useful for landing.

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, do we know if you can do Focus Attack in the air? Could be useful for landing.

Yes you can.

It's done right here:

Also I'm going to repeat a question/thought I had earlier:

So Strong D-Tilt can cancel into Specials even if it connects on Shield, correct?

So then, wouldn't it feasibly be possible to cancel that into a retreating Tatsumaki (read: backwards) to avoid any sort of punish?

I'm not particularly sure how useful that would be but it was just an idea that came to mind.

 

[AreJay25]

Yes you can.

It's done right here:

Also I'm going to repeat a question/thought I had earlier:

So Strong D-Tilt can cancel into Specials even if it connects on Shield, correct?

So then, wouldn't it feasibly be possible to cancel that into a retreating Tatsumaki (read: backwards) to avoid any sort of punish?

I'm not particularly sure how useful that would be but it was just an idea that came to mind.

Yeah, it should work. Could be useful.

 

[Gawain]

Wait, do we know if you can do Focus Attack in the air? Could be useful for landing.

Whoa. I hope so. Can you imagine it? FADC: in the air. Lol that would be the most ridiculous landing mind game shenanigans I've ever heard of. I'm trying to visualize it in my head and it just looks hilarious.

I feel like Ryu is gonna have a tough time with these characters.



It's the situation but Ryu has a standing chance against Puff. But her incredible air game might neutralize Ryu's ground game unless he is relying more on hadoukens.


The same but range might out do him since Ryu has a lot of options with handling Meta Knight


Those rockets and slingshots are gonna be nightmare to deal with and there isn't a lot of opportunities to handle Villager's extreme camping and projectile base moveset plus, how much damage a pocketed Hadouken can do



That speed and size will have a major advantage over them. Especially how much damage the t can deal out in a quick minute.


His speed and damage output is devastating and he can put up 70% if your not paying attention. Plus his aerials and smash attacks can force Ryu into a situation where he has to slow down Falcon and that isn't hard

I'm gonna second Jigglypuff possibly being really tough for sure. His DP can just be woven away from and punished. I think Pika and villager really relies a lot on if Ryu can eat projectiles with tatsu. I can see where you're coming from with Falcon but I bet that ones gonna be a lot more even. Ryu might be a tough character for Falcon to come in on if his OOS options are as good as they sound.

 

[AreJay25]

Whoa. I hope so. Can you imagine it? FADC: in the air. Lol that would be the most ridiculous landing mind game shenanigans I've ever heard of. I'm trying to visualize it in my head and it just looks hilarious.


I'm gonna second Jigglypuff possibly being really tough for sure. His DP can just be woven away from and punished. I think Pika and villager really relies a lot on if Ryu can eat projectiles with tatsu. I can see where you're coming from with Falcon but I bet that ones gonna be a lot more even. Ryu might be a tough character for Falcon to come in on if his OOS options are as good as they sound.

That's exactly what I had in mind lol. Using FA to land and absorb a hit, then dash cancelling it to get out or just let it hit. Could be really good.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not particularly worried about the Falcon MU right now, Ryu's up-close options can deal pretty well with a lot of what Falcon can do and the slower horizontal movement of Hadouken would disrupt Falcon's approaches pretty well, I would think.

The dash-grab in particular comes to mind; of course, it could be power-shielded, but even that split second where Falcon would put up the shield is better than having to deal with Falcon's obnoxious sliding dash-grabs.

I feel like Ryu could just have a field day with Falcon offstage because I feel like he can just stuff Falcon's U-B with a Fair or Dair.

 

[Gawain]

I feel like Ryu could just have a field day with Falcon offstage because I feel like he can just stuff Falcon's U-B with a Fair or Dair.

This describes Falcon's recovery in almost every matchup lol.

 

[Deleted member]

This describes Falcon's recovery in almost every matchup lol.

Somehow you ended up quoting @ AreJay25 when that was what I said, lol.

 

[Gawain]

Somehow you ended up quoting @ AreJay25 when that was what I said, lol.View attachment 56590

Wat. How is that even possible lol?

EDIT: at least it worked this time

 

[AreJay25]

Somehow you ended up quoting @ AreJay25 when that was what I said, lol.View attachment 56590

I was so confused lol.

 

[Champ Gold]

I'm not particularly worried about the Falcon MU right now, Ryu's up-close options can deal pretty well with a lot of what Falcon can do and the slower horizontal movement of Hadouken would disrupt Falcon's approaches pretty well, I would think.

The dash-grab in particular comes to mind; of course, it could be power-shielded, but even that split second where Falcon would put up the shield is better than having to deal with Falcon's obnoxious sliding dash-grabs.

I feel like Ryu could just have a field day with Falcon offstage because I feel like he can just stuff Falcon's U-B with a Fair or Dair.

I trying to think of matchups when it comes to my mains and here's what I got


Has a strong air presence but his ground game isn't slacking either, I believe his approach game might be slight advantage in Ryu's favor, although Falco has a strong dash attack to help follow up on moves

(The twin)
This match up will benefit Ryu so hard because of Ike's speed. Ike's power is tremendous but that power can't do anything if your opposition can zone you out and coming in fast


This matchup is the one that boggles me the most. Both characters have tremendous ground games, is incredible in close combat, have decent punishment options but the advantage can lean either side (Ryu's air game and mixups vs Mac's Super Armor, speed and bruising attacks)
They seem similar to some but different to another. Ryu has fought boxers before but none like Mac


Oh boy, this one I forgot can lean heavily towards Robin. His Great Wall of projectiles and air game is one of the best. However, Robin's speed and ground game is somewhat lacking (especially the leggy smash attacks). Ryu can have a field day with his speed and ground game but those projectiles can hurt him badly


It leans heavy towards Ryu but Sun Salutations and Soccer Balls are hard to deal with if you aren't ready. Plus her F-Dmash can stop a few rolls here and there.



Now this is a fight that might be an uphill battle for Ryu. ZSS has range, damage output and a great air game. Her agility can be something that might hurt Ryu depending if he's not prepared. However, ZSS isn't as well proficient in the KO department. Her KO moves are pretty predictable and has some major lag. This matchup will lean toward Zero Suit, it won't be troublesome for Rhu and can easily come out on top

 

[Gawain]

I trying to think of matchups when it comes to my mains and here's what I got


Has a strong air presence but his ground game isn't slacking either, I believe his approach game might be slight advantage in Ryu's favor, although Falco has a strong dash attack to help follow up on moves

(The twin)
This match up will benefit Ryu so hard because of Ike's speed. Ike's power is tremendous but that power can't do anything if your opposition can zone you out and coming in fast


This matchup is the one that boggles me the most. Both characters have tremendous ground games, is incredible in close combat, have decent punishment options but the advantage can lean either side (Ryu's air game and mixups vs Mac's Super Armor, speed and bruising attacks)
They seem similar to some but different to another. Ryu has fought boxers before but none like Mac


Oh boy, this one I forgot can lean heavily towards Robin. His Great Wall of projectiles and air game is one of the best. However, Robin's speed and ground game is somewhat lacking (especially the leggy smash attacks). Ryu can have a field day with his speed and ground game but those projectiles can hurt him badly


It leans heavy towards Ryu but Sun Salutations and Soccer Balls are hard to deal with if you aren't ready. Plus her F-Dmash can stop a few rolls here and there.



Now this is a fight that might be an uphill battle for Ryu. ZSS has range, damage output and a great air game. Her agility can be something that might hurt Ryu depending if he's not prepared. However, ZSS isn't as well proficient in the KO department. Her KO moves are pretty predictable and has some major lag. This matchup will lean toward Zero Suit, it won't be troublesome for Rhu and can easily come out on top

I wouldn't sleep on Ike. Disjoints can be a problem for characters with short reaching normals that extend their hurtboxes to boot.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ryu is gonna destroy Robin.

Just looking at Ryus tools once Ryu has Robin at disadvantage wtf is Robin going to do?

 

[AreJay25]

Ryu is gonna destroy Robin.

Just looking at Ryus tools once Ryu has Robin at disadvantage wtf is Robin going to do?

SD the next stock

 

[Gawain]

Ryu is gonna destroy Robin.

Just looking at Ryus tools once Ryu has Robin at disadvantage wtf is Robin going to do?

That's basically how I always see poor Robin. His tools aren't fast enough to keep people away from him for very long, especially with platforms to use, and once they're in he has such a hard time getting people off of him. His OOS options are truly awful. They all have significant startup, his grab range is really not great; and when we consider that Ryu at least appears to be very strong vs shields and on pressure, Robin just sounds like he'd have a really hard time doing anything to get out.

 

[ancara22]

I'm one who's excited as can be for this guy. And thinking about it, a few things come to note based on what I've seen and know:

- Ryu's Down-B will let him soak up one attack no matter the strength. This also includes projectiles. I think this will heavily benefit Ryu when facing characters like Villager, Mega Man and so forth. And those with reflectors (Fox, Falco and so forth) won't be so much trouble either with this, because if they reflect your normal hadouken, you can Down-B to soak it up in case you can't get out of the way, or to land in a sneaky blow in case they're reflector-happy and try to rush in after reflecting.

-A lot of Ryu's ability to deal with zoners and so forth depends on if his Tatsu can dodge projectiles like it usually can in SF games. If so, then RIP in Pepperoni Mega Man.

-I honestly legit think that with his Up-B/Shoryuken, he's got a solid tool for dealing with cheeky air fighters like Jiggs, Kirby, Wario or other such characters. And for those saying they can easily weave around the DP, that's why you don't throw it out and about like every SF4 online lobby scrub has since the beginning of time. Time it right, and you will be the bane of these air fighters, and likely Hungrybox too if he ever joins us for such fun.

-Ryu looks like a guy with a TON of combo potential here. So much so, that methinks he'll mainly be a character dependent on how well you can read your opponent, know their character they're playing, and can also know what is best to use next. If you can read your opponent like a book, then giffycat is going to soon be filled with a LOT of Ryu combo footage soon. Especially once we can better understand some of the more complex, yet also flashy combos he's capable of.

-His Down-B/FA is going to be a godsend for dealing with people who love to be cheeky with using shield all the time, due to how it seems to work here. And once it lands, it seems you have about nearly 2 seconds max (when max power Down-B/FA) of your opponent being in a "crumpled" state, where you're free to use whatever combo starter you please. Gonna be mad fun to see what combos everyone comes up with over time.

-Ryu is FAST. And I'm talking around Little Mac to Sanic tier fast. With that kind of speed, it shouldn't be too hard to get in quickly on slower or camping-focused characters/players, and go from there. And thankfully Ryu doesn't have the "Side-B makes him become a lemming if used near the edge of the stage" issue that plagued Little Mac, so that's also a bonus.

There's likely a lot more to cover than this, but this should be at least some basic thoughts to think about. And if Ryu delivers in ways we hope he does, then I'm excited about what Ryu can do for the metagame itself. Although I am curious on how the wandering warrior himself will fare against who I like to call the 5 gods of Sm4sh (Yoshi, ZSS, Sheik, Rosalina, Diddy).

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

i hope tatsumaki goes through projectiles like it does in street fighter

Tatsumaki actually has lower body invincibility in the Street Fighter series. That's why it seems like it is immune to projectiles.

So, most likely, it will go over low projectiles like PK Fire, Sheik Needles, and etc. But it could possibly be hit by Dr. Mario's pills because they bounce, as an example.


ON THE PLUS SIDE, however, it would most likely be a good tool for punishing down tilts/down smashes, similar to how it can punish crouching attacks in SF.

 

[Gawain]

I'm one who's excited as can be for this guy. And thinking about it, a few things come to note based on what I've seen and know:

- Ryu's Down-B will let him soak up one attack no matter the strength. This also includes projectiles. I think this will heavily benefit Ryu when facing characters like Villager, Mega Man and so forth. And those with reflectors (Fox, Falco and so forth) won't be so much trouble either with this, because if they reflect your normal hadouken, you can Down-B to soak it up in case you can't get out of the way, or to land in a sneaky blow in case they're reflector-happy and try to rush in after reflecting.

-A lot of Ryu's ability to deal with zoners and so forth depends on if his Tatsu can dodge projectiles like it usually can in SF games. If so, then RIP in Pepperoni Mega Man.

-I honestly legit think that with his Up-B/Shoryuken, he's got a solid tool for dealing with cheeky air fighters like Jiggs, Kirby, Wario or other such characters. And for those saying they can easily weave around the DP, that's why you don't throw it out and about like every SF4 online lobby scrub has since the beginning of time. Time it right, and you will be the bane of these air fighters, and likely Hungrybox too if he ever joins us for such fun.

-Ryu looks like a guy with a TON of combo potential here. So much so, that methinks he'll mainly be a character dependent on how well you can read your opponent, know their character they're playing, and can also know what is best to use next. If you can read your opponent like a book, then giffycat is going to soon be filled with a LOT of Ryu combo footage soon. Especially once we can better understand some of the more complex, yet also flashy combos he's capable of.

-His Down-B/FA is going to be a godsend for dealing with people who love to be cheeky with using shield all the time, due to how it seems to work here. And once it lands, it seems you have about nearly 2 seconds max (when max power Down-B/FA) of your opponent being in a "crumpled" state, where you're free to use whatever combo starter you please. Gonna be mad fun to see what combos everyone comes up with over time.

-Ryu is FAST. And I'm talking around Little Mac to Sanic tier fast. With that kind of speed, it shouldn't be too hard to get in quickly on slower or camping-focused characters/players, and go from there. And thankfully Ryu doesn't have the "Side-B makes him become a lemming if used near the edge of the stage" issue that plagued Little Mac, so that's also a bonus.

There's likely a lot more to cover than this, but this should be at least some basic thoughts to think about. And if Ryu delivers in ways we hope he does, then I'm excited about what Ryu can do for the metagame itself. Although I am curious on how the wandering warrior himself will fare against who I like to call the 5 gods of Sm4sh (Yoshi, ZSS, Sheik, Rosalina, Diddy).

The difference with his DP is that in Street fighter once you jump you commit to that arc. You can't reverse directions. So you can always counter a jump in with the move, which is what makes it so good in that setting. In Smash this is a little different because characters have control in the air. Most of them probably don't have enough to move in and out of it's threat area safely, but I promise you jiggly puff can just float at the upper rightmost area of where it will hit and jump on reaction if you try it. Doesn't mean it isn't a great tool vs her but I think she will probably end up in advantage here. Especially once Ryu is in the air. His fair (the medium kick from SF) looks to be his best aerial in terms of range and it hits slightly below him. If puff is in front and slightly above him, he's got no way to defend himself in the air except specials and air dodges.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Just throw some chi at the puffball and see how she reacts.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh boy, this one I forgot can lean heavily towards Robin. His Great Wall of projectiles and air game is one of the best. However, Robin's speed and ground game is somewhat lacking (especially the leggy smash attacks). Ryu can have a field day with his speed and ground game but those projectiles can hurt him badly

Yeah I'm currently on the fence about . Robin's Zoning capabilities allow him to walk all over someone like because of Ganon's large hurtbox (because he's a big guy) and limited mobility on the ground and in the air (with a joke for a Double Jump and pretty bad air speed). And on top of that free gimps for days unless Ganon has Dropkick because otherwise Ganondorf has no horizontal options and eats Nairplanes all day. And finally the Levin Sword disjoints which just love to outprioritize everything that isn't a disjoint.

But of course, on the other hand has much better overall mobility than and also has Hadouken to clank with Arcfire and beat/clank all the charges of Thunder save for Thoron (likely clanking with Arcthunder), and he has midair Tatsumaki allowing for horizontal movement enough such that a Nairplane shouldn't automatically mean a stock if he gets hit offstage with it, and that doesn't even factor in any potential distance bonus from doing the quarter-circle back input.

I think one of the biggest thing for in this MU will be avoiding the Arcfire or using Hadouken to clank with it since an Arcfire will likely mean a free Levin Sword Aerial (Fair or Uair typically) or Grab for Robin.

Of course, with Ryu's frame (i.e. not huge like ) some good SDI up and away and double jump mashing could allow him to escape Arcfire before Robin can follow up (something I do with all the time, although is a tad smaller in size than ). Same goes for the Elwind jab. There also lies the potential of crouch canceling Robin's Jab 1 and 2 and being able to shield the Arcfire ( can do this at lower percents, for example) (or Elwind) jab as well, although the Elwind jab comes out quicker than Arcfire.

I really feel like it should almost be like a "get in-get out" mentality, Ryu seems like he can really build percent and he won't have trouble killing, he just needs to get off those hits and back away before Robin can start shooing him away with Levin Sword Disjoints.

And one additional note, thanks to the Super Armor on Focus Attack it looks like Ryu hopefully won't have too much trouble coming back down the stage/avoiding the juggle from since it will allow him to tank one Uair from Robin on the way down. And anyone from the Robin boards knows how much just loves to have those Uair juggles because his Levin Sword Uair beats a lot of things.

The last potential threat I can think of is the Elwind hand spike offstage because Ryu seems a little vulnerable from above in terms of his recovery (Shoryuken having a predictable trajectory and no disjoint).


I don't main or play but I've played enough matches against that I know that character almost as if he was a main of mine (one of the perks of frequenting the Robin boards).


Now, as for my mains:



This MU is interesting, one would (potentially) think that would have the upper hand here, but Link's up-close options aren't something to scoff at, they're a little slow, but those disjoints can cause all sorts of problems and a raw Ftilt from can kill pretty early. Additionally, looks to be prone to a couple Utilts for a low percent juggle among some other things.

The biggest thing here is getting around 's bombs, this is because 's bombs beat everything that isn't a fully charged Aura Sphere or Charge Shot (and I'm pretty sure it might actually cancel Charge Shot) or projectile of a similar level.

Ergo, Link's bombs will go right through Hadouken (save for the multi-hit variant of Hadouken, whose name escapes me atm). Link's other projectiles will also clank with Hadouken as well.

So can't really lean on that projectile too much.

As is somewhat of a typical case when going up against "wall of spam" characters like the issue here will be getting in, the Gale Boomerang can be a very annoying option that can shut down any reckless approaches, if you try to approach without powershielding that thing you'll struggle, trust me. I can't tell you how many times I've just stuffed people running at me with a Gale Boomerang to the face, I've done the same thing countless times with Bombs.

Ryu will also have to watch out for the Bomb mindgames, Link can only have two bombs out at once but they can become quite tricky to deal with when you have both of them bouncing off your shield while is hopping at you swing the Master Sword.

also looks tall enough to eat SH Zairs from which is another annoying poking tool that Link has which can keep Ryu out of his space.

I sense that, barring the super armor given by Focus Attack, Ryu will have some trouble coming down to the stage on Link's Uair has good range and a disjoint which sits out for a long time (there's a reason I call Link's Uair Frametrapping 101).

Link can also pressure from underneath with Smash Up Throw Bombs (which will reach up near the blast zone for most stages), again, two of those bombs flying around + a nasty disjointed Uair means trouble coming down.

Ryu also can't expect to challenge Link coming down to the stage either, unless 's Uair has some weird range to it, Link's Dair will very likely beat everything that Ryu can do to Link from underneath him (in fact, 's U-Smash is the only thing I can think of atm that flat out beats (read: no trade) Link's Dair without any sort of invulnerability frames or disjoint).

I also don't think will be able to easily gimp Link, Link's Zair has a lot of range offstage and his Spin Attack doesn't leave him too vulnerable for being interrupted. The key for here will be to jump in between Link and the stage when Link is tethering back, as an aerial here will interrupt Link as he is snapping back to the ledge and will often lead to a stock.

Some other things:

Link's D-Smash is a primary kill tool of his, that thing hits hard up front (especially at the hilt) and semi-spikes on the back, of course the semi-spike shouldn't be too much of an issue thanks to Tatsumaki + Shoryuken offstage but I worry that Tatsumaki will leave Ryu wide open for a Dair spike from above as he comes back to the stage.

Also, do not sleep on 's F-Smash, that thing can kill stupid early if Link manages to connect with the second swing, especially with rage (we're talking like 60% death uncharged at the edge possibly). And the first swing also has somewhat deceptive range since Link actually steps forward just before the swing comes out; finally, a tipper first swing of Fsmash can kill as well, which is important to keep in mind given the deceptive range of the first swing.

Finally I reiterate to be careful around 's F-tilt, which can kill surprisingly early.



This is an interesting MU to me because it can very quickly turn into a slugfest, as everyone knows, hits like a DAMN RUNAWAY FREIGHT TRAIN, but is also hindered by some mobility issues and by his overall slow speed.

And of course doesn't seem to be a slouch in the damage department either.

I think an important thing for here will be smart timing/use of Focus Attack to tank through Ganon's attacks, and get the crumple to lead to big damage (save for Dorf's U-Smash, which has nonexistent endlag).

Tatsumaki will allow Ryu to handle Ganon's semi-spike F-tilt okay if it knocks him offstage (i.e. he can recover alright), but has to be extremely careful of Ganondorf offstage. 's freight train aerials will eat alive if Ganon has enough space to say get out a Bair or Fair hitbox and trade with Tatsumaki.

On the flipside, it is important for in this MU to get as aggressive as possible offstage since with Wizard's Dropkick is so often gimp food when he's knocked offstage due to his piss-poor horizontal options.

While this can become a slugfest, it will still be important that Ryu avoids the tradefest because wins the trade game basically all the time because he hits so stupid hard.

Given the properties of Hadouken I feel this will be a useful disruptive tool to use against in the MU because of its slow speed and horizontal trajectory, and I think it could be very easily used to disrupt 's approach and leave him vulnerable for things such as dash grabs or other options.

That's all I got for now though, let me know what you all think.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

I'm just gonna say this right now. Ryu is going to destroy Bowser.

Bowser relies on his jab, shield, and pivots in neutral, especially because our roll and spot dodge frame data is trash. Ryu has all the tools to pressure/break shields, an invulnerable Shoryuken to beat our options up close, regardless of what it is, and a proper projectile. I'm ready to face the music.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm just gonna say this right now. Ryu is going to destroy Bowser.

Bowser relies on his jab, shield, and pivots in neutral, especially because our roll and spot dodge frame data is trash. Ryu has all the tools to pressure/break shields, an invulnerable Shoryuken to beat our options up close, regardless of what it is, and a proper projectile. I'm ready to face the music.

So, basically like Zangief.

I trying to think of matchups when it comes to my mains and here's what I got




This matchup is the one that boggles me the most. Both characters have tremendous ground games, is incredible in close combat, have decent punishment options but the advantage can lean either side (Ryu's air game and mixups vs Mac's Super Armor, speed and bruising attacks)
They seem similar to some but different to another. Ryu has fought boxers before but none like Mac

Mac is pretty much a hybrid of Dudley's technique and speed along with Balrog's brute force and armour.

 

[warionumbah2]

I wanna know what his hado can and cannot beat. I know normal hadokens clank with luigi's fireballs.

If you input it correctly, it shoud beat his fireballs due to the damage buff and shakunetsu is self explanatory lel.

Dp oos and jab oos is the truth. Tatsumaki will be good against rosalina, it crosses up shields and hits luma but we'll see.

 

[busken]

Most of the street fighter terms are pretty much greek to me but the verstility in his normals alone is eons above most of the cast. Combine that with the fact that you can cancel his normals into his specials which can be b-reversed opens up another dimension of innovation. The input competence needed to master Ryu alone may even surpass melee tech skill. Really exicted to see how he evolves with the meta.

 

[Gawain]

Most of the street fighter terms are pretty much greek to me but the verstility in his normals alone is eons above most of the cast. Combine that with the fact that you can cancel his normals into his specials which can be b-reversed opens up another dimension of innovation. The input competence needed to master Ryu alone may even surpass melee tech skill. Really exicted to see how he evolves with the meta.

This post made me think, maybe we'll see a surge of Smash players trying out Street Fighter with this. I think that'd be great. If you don't know much about Street Fighter pick it up sometime. You might find you like it a lot, just realize that you need to put a solid day in to get the feel for things. Read Wiki's and watch videos too, they're invaluable.

 

[Hitzel]

Dumb question, but can you B-Stick in this game? If so, I think it may be beneficial for Ryu since FADC's will probably be objectively faster if done by B-sticking:

, ,

...as opposed to something like:

+, , ,

...because you have to physically move the joystick from down to side with normal controls, but with B-sticking your stick doesn't need to be in the down position before inputting the double dash to FADC.

---

Also, have we seen anyone experiment with getting EX DP OoS? In Street Fighter, you can do "Tiger Knee" versions of moves to get them to be technically airborne first frame by sneaking in an up input just as you press the button, which intuitively would make one think of a Smash OoS. Depending on the game, the input could be something like:

, , , , +

My first thought was that this would cause a dodge roll, but if one inputs the first gently without tapping it, the game wouldn't interpret it as a roll and allow for the motion. In street fighter, this would work. You can walk forward by holding for as long as you want, and then at any time input the , , + to get a shoryuken. If Smash 4's programming will allow this style of input, AND a tiger knee motion will also somehow make Smash 4's engine interpret a jump command, maybe fully invincible EX Shoryuken OoS will be possible.

If not, we should look into how invincible normal DP is. If it at least has a few frames of startup invincibility, it will still be a very scary OoS option.

Some food for thought.

 

[busken]

Yes

Dumb question, but can you B-Stick in this game? If so, I think it may be beneficial for Ryu since FADC's will probably be objectively faster if done by B-sticking:

, ,

...as opposed to something like:

+, , ,

...because you have to physically move the joystick from down to side with normal controls, but with B-sticking your stick doesn't need to be in the down position before inputting the double dash to FADC.

---

Also, have we seen anyone experiment with getting EX DP OoS? In Street Fighter, you can do "Tiger Knee" versions of moves to get them to be technically airborne first frame by sneaking in an up input just as you press the button, which intuitively would make one think of a Smash OoS. Depending on the game, the input could be something like:

, , , , +

My first thought was that this would cause a dodge roll, but if one inputs the first gently without tapping it, the game wouldn't interpret it as a roll and allow for the motion. In street fighter, this would work. You can walk forward by holding for as long as you want, and then at any time input the , , + to get a shoryuken. If Smash 4's programming will allow this style of input, AND a tiger knee motion will also somehow make Smash 4's engine interpret a jump command, maybe fully invincible EX Shoryuken OoS will be possible.

If not, we should look into how invincible normal DP is. If it at least has a few frames of startup invincibility, it will still be a very scary OoS option.

Some food for thought.

Yes you can. Damn, these inputs are insane...

 

[warionumbah2]

Speaking of FADC, imagine you're recovering you snap the ledge and Ryu is using his FA. if you wait on the ledge, ryu can cancel and punish, if you jump over him, once again cancel into dp, if you go for any other option you will most likely get hit.

This is insane.

 

[Hitzel]

Yes

Yes you can. Damn, these inputs are insane...

It's easier than it looks because a majority of them are simple quarter circles and dragon punches you do all day, with slight twists to how you do them. Remove the standard commands from those inputs and there's not much left.

All three Marvel vs Capcom 3 characters on my team utilize Tiger Knee'd specials and it's about second nature now. Granted, Tiger Knee'd Dragon Punches are the hardest to do (Rocket Raccoon uses the input for Log Trap at times) but they're still very possible with practice, and I have notably bad execution to begin with.

---
Also, to the question of vs. I think that Jiggs is going to give Ryu a hard time if played perfectly because her air footsies take place right where he probably won't be able to hit. Ryu's classic fireball + uppercut gameplay won't work here against aerial opponents the same reason it doesn't work in Marvel; characters have air mobility and defensive options mid-air. Ryu will probably have to be played similarly to the way he's played in Marvel; basic zoning, patient approaching, and ridiculous burst damage off of every good read.

Throwing fireballs risks things like Air Dodge into Rest at high %'s. AT low %'s, Jiggs will probably gimp the pants off of Ryu. He does have EX DP, but he can only do that to recover low, and Jigg's offstage power comes from horizontal knockback. This makes me think Ryu will feel fragile vs Jigglypuff.

That being said, Ryu looks to hit like a goddamn dump truck, so Jigglypuff will probably die in a few good reads. If Jiggs isn't played patiently and perfectly, she's going to die quickly. It's like Jiggs fighting the heavyweight characters, but unlike heavyweights, Ryu's moves don't appear to be unsafe. In fact, they seem to have very little commitment in general. Jiggs wins the neutral, but Ryu's tools do work when they can be used.

So yeah, that's my scrub foresight into how Jiggs vs Ryu will play out.

 

[meleebrawler]

Apparently you can use the A button for EX moves?

 

[ExtDoc]

I love how Sakurai says he doesn't think his game is competitive at all and then releases a character where you benefit from insane button inputs and precise timing with attacks.

 

[Deleted member]

Do we have any aerial confirms into footstool like Nair? I think its Dair that jab locks which can setup for Focus Attack, which in turn could setup for another aerial confirm into footstool to repeat. I don't have Ryu yet, but I've been watching the Gimz.

 

[ancara22]

I just fought a couple Ryus so far in FG. From what I noticed, Ryu's Hadouken, at higher %, will cause you to bounce on the ground as if you fell off of a platform, if that makes any sense.

Most likely, you can follow this up with a jab lock or start of a combo if you can get to them quickly enough. I smell tons of Marth-like combo possibilities here, if this goes like I think it will.

 

[.Shìkì]

I just fought a couple Ryus so far in FG. From what I noticed, Ryu's Hadouken, at higher %, will cause you to bounce on the ground as if you fell off of a platform, if that makes any sense.

Most likely, you can follow this up with a jab lock or start of a combo if you can get to them quickly enough. I smell tons of Marth-like combo possibilities here, if this goes like I think it will.

Lucky you... My Smash has been updating for 30 minutes and still isn't even half finished. This is bull**** e.e

 

[smileMasky]

he feels really heavy