The Roster Size Thread

[the smash nerd]

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Just a thought.

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Just a thought.

 

[mahnamahna]

I think at this point, predicting anything less than 50 is just pointlessly pessimistic.

We currently have 36 announced characters.


Next, let's factor in all of the vets who are definitely returning no matter what:


Yes, R.O.B. is coming back. I don't know why everyone thinks otherwise. Four of the above characters have essentially already been confirmed. Ice Climbers, Ness, and Wario all have franchise content in the game, and G&W appeared in the Pac-Man trailer. Jigglypuff, Falco, and Ganondorf are all staples, and Meta Knight and ROB aren't going anywhere either. With these nine shoe-ins included, we're already at 45. With the reveal that Lucina is a clone, I see no reason that we shouldn't be expecting these two as well:


Now we're at 47. We already know that there is at least one newcomer left based on Sakurai mentioning more trailers. That brings us to 48. From here, any combination of further newcomers or two very hype but still uncertain vets:
will essentially bring us to 50 or more. Mewtwo was directly acknowledgd by Sakurai in a press conference and is one of the most highly requested characters. We can't be sure about Snake, but I think that seeing Rayman's trophy suggests that maybe we're not quite done with third party characters...

As far as more newcomers, I'd say Shulk, Marshal/ Chorus Men, Ridley, K. Rool/Dixie, and perhaps a new retro all have a decent shot. If all seven of those characters get in, we're at 54, which fits a character select screen well with 5 rows of 11 if you include the random box. 54 is just my personal hope, but anything less than 50 is simply illogical at this point. I guess you could make a case for 48 if Wolf and Lucas don't return, but I really can't see why they wouldn't. They require less development time than other characters and were both popular inclusions in Brawl. I think a 54 character roster (38 vets, 16 newcomers) is pretty much the best case scenario, if just a tad bit optimistic. 16 newcomers may sound like a lot, but while it's more than Melee, it's still less than Brawl, and clones make up at least one, if not more of those newcomers.

Agreed that those 47 are pretty much locked to be in SSB4, whether it's from the very start or as DLC.

As for unannounced newcomers/hype characters ,

1. Mewtwo - the fact that they've designed him before could make him a relatively simple quasi-clone if they want to pad out the roster (#48)
2. Ridley - way too hype worthy to not warrant a slot in SSB4... he's waited too long, and Metroid deserves a second rep at this point if Star Fox has 4 (#49)
3. King K. Rool - Dixie would be a solid semi-clone and welcome female addition, but there hasn't been a heavyweight newcomer yet and the villain lineup is lacking. He'd also be rather hype worthy if he, Ridley and Mewtwo were grouped together in a villains trailer (#50)
4. Marshall (instead of Chorus Men) - seems so Sakurai and provides a unique, rhythm-based moveset. Plenty of quirky characters like Olimar, Mr.G&W, etc. have gotten a shot in Super Smash before, so I don't mind them getting a slot (#51)
5. Shulk - a nice representative of a new Nintendo franchise, he's probably still likely (#52)
6. Mach Rider - unlike Takamaru, plenty of unique movesets could work with Mach Rider. A samurai may be cool, but there's plenty of sword-wielders/ninjas already being added and the current ones too (Robin, Lucina, Greninja, possibly Shulk, Link, Toon Link, Marth, Ike, arguably Sheik). He's also the retro that Sakurai has been trying to add to Super Smash since Melee (couldn't figure out a moveset for his bike) (#53)

53+random would be 54 slots

I'd guess these 6 as prime candidates for DLC

1. Dixie Kong
2. Sceptile
3. Krystal
4. Captain Toad
5. Zelda newcomer
6. Unrepped franchise newcomer (Takamaru, Issac, Inkling or Chibi-Robo could all work)

 

[silvR1995]

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Just a thought.

With Lucina being a near-perfect clone, that pretty much re-opened Lucas' door. And Dr. Mario, Roy, and Pichu.

 

[Burruni]

My thought is 4x13 with Random in the bottom-right, 51 slots with 53 characters due to Mii Fighters on Wii U, the 3DS layout would be scrolling horizontally, likely 6 units tall.
Ontop of the 36 slots, 38 characters we know...
Melee cuts stay cut
All Brawl vets besides Snake, Squirtle, and Ivysaur return.
4 total newcomers left, two being Shulk and a Rhythm Heaven Rep (likely Marshal)
What goes in the other 2 is personal dispute.

 

[KimmotMan]

Something in my gut says that If Bandai Namco can give Tekken Tag Tournament 2 59 Balanced characters, I feel we could have something similar. For a game with So much expectation I don't think we'd get such a small roster.

Perhaps we'll get rows of 6 For the 3DS Version and it scrolls down. Shouldn't be a problem since we got our own individual systems now.

Used the 3DS select at E3 as reference and placed characters in between that made sense.

Mario and Yoshi Row
Donkey Kong, Wario, Rhythm Heaven : (Dixie, K.Rool, Rhythm Rep)
Zelda Row (Ghirahim)
Metroid and Kid Icarus (Ridley, Medusa)
RPG (Shulk, and Maybe...Issac or Wars Rep)
HAL -Lab Games (Maybe one more Mother character?)
Miyamoto Creations/Works?
Pokemon
Misc.
3rd Party and Random

This translates well here.

Wii U Version






Maybe both sides in the bottom will function as Random like Melee did?

60 Characters (includes the separate Miis), 58 Character Slots. Just my thoughts.

 

[kirby_queen]

Something in my gut says that If Bandai Namco can give Tekken Tag Tournament 2 59 Balanced characters, I feel we could have something similar. For a game with So much expectation I don't think we'd get such a small roster.

Perhaps we'll get rows of 6 For the 3DS Version and it scrolls down. Shouldn't be a problem since we got our own individual systems now.

Used the 3DS select at E3 as reference and placed characters in between that made sense.

Mario and Yoshi Row
Donkey Kong, Wario, Rhythm Heaven : (Dixie, K.Rool, Rhythm Rep)
Zelda Row (Ghirahim)
The Rest of the Famicom 4 (Takamaru, RIdley)
RPG (Shulk, and Maybe...Issac or Wars Rep)
HAL -Lab Games (Maybe one more Mother character?)
Miyamoto Creations/Works?
Pokemon
Misc.
3rd Party and Random

This translates well here.

Wii U Version






Maybe both sides in the bottom will function as Random like Melee did?

60 Characters (includes the separate Miis), 58 Character Slots. Just my thoughts.

Hopefully Bandana Waddle Dee for the HAL category

 

[Bedoop]

My take on it;
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Alt. Costumes: (Mario) (Lucina)

 

[Wanderer from Roseyard]

My thoughts on the cast of characters:

I) While it's not totally clear how selecting your personalized Mii Fighter will work, one line of thinking leads me to believe that the three types will indeed share a tile on the character screen. (In the customization screen, you would load the Mii from your system, give them an outfit, select the fighting style, and customize however else you'd like; then on the character select screen, lay a chip on Mii Fighter and pick from the list of Miis you've set up.)

II) My brief scrutiny of both selection screens tells me that the character tiles were meticulously designed to fit, at most, forty-eight tiles on both systems, with no scrolling or page-leafing necessary. Before anyone argues that "The roster is not chosen around the character screen," bear in mind that I'm working in reverse. The character screen was designed around the roster - surely now set in stone - and I'm trying to figure it out based on the clues from the demos.

Prevailing with those assumptions, we know the identities of thirty-six character tiles, as well as a Random tile, allowing eleven more. I suspect:

1) Ness
2) Jigglypuff
3) Ice Climbers
4) Mr. Game & Watch
5) Falco
6) Ganondorf
7) Wario
8) Meta Knight
9) R.O.B.
10) and 11) Two remaining new challengers. If you believe the Gematsu rumor is still hanging on for dear life, they would be Shulk and Chorus Kids. Or, if you're a dreamer, it could be Ridley and K. Rool.

I'm not going to pretend I'm totally confident in this, though, because just recently everyone who thought they had it figured out was blind-sided by Robin and Lucina.

Other possibilities:

- While I'm assuming that the Wii U's character screen will have four rows of twelve tiles, it's possible that the bottom row won't totally fill out and we'll have fewer characters than I'm predicting. It's possible the bottom row could have an odd number of tiles and have to be staggered, and I can imagine OCD players complaining about that forever. The cleanness of past select screens seems to be a series of happy accidents so far; will it happen again?

- Maybe some veterans will be cut for no reason other time constraints. Why be so sure Meta Knight will be back? Maybe they scrapped him months ago when his development wasn't reaching benchmarks. Who knows.

- Maybe there will be more than two newcomers left because other alternate costumes got promoted to a fully playable status like Lucina did.

- Maybe Mewtwo will be back.

- Maybe Mii Fighter will take up three distinct tiles.

 

[GunGunW]

Regarding which characters will be unlocked from the start or have to be unlocked within the game; in my opinion it should be:

Starters:

Unlockables:


I'm not saying that's gonna happen, but that's what it should be in my opinion.

 

[jacobjeb]

My prediction is that there will be a minimum of 45, and a maximum of 52. but I'm expecting 48. Everyone from Brawl will be in except Lucas, Pokemon Trainer, Snake, and maybe wolf, maybe R.O.B.

 

[Arthreeteseven]

Alright I want to theorize about the character select screen, these thoughts are based on what things look like to me in the demos and screenshots we've seen, but obviously this is just fun conjecture and by no means a "solid" argument

I think the entire concept of a character select screen is going to change significantly, especially for the 3ds.

First of all I think the Non-Custom select screen on the WII U (and possibly 3ds) will not feature the Mii Fighters in any way, it just wouldn't make since because they are so heavily based on customizing, and they can't be used online.

Furthermore, I do not think it is out of the question that the 3ds would feature a scrolling menu of some kind for character selection, frankly I hope it does. Not just for more characters but because cramming 50ish pictures on the regular sized 3ds screen is WAY to difficult to work with, the pictures woulds be to small. Honestly if you have even slightly bad eyesight I have no idea how you will be able to select a character on the regular 3ds unless there is a scrolling or zoom option. The screens we've seen already barely fit the number of character we already have announced, so hopefully some sort of visibility assistance will be incorporated.

My main solution to this problem is that the select screen on the 3ds should be customizable by the player, in other words I think you should be able to set up the screen to feature your personally customized characters or your mains/preferred characters in such a way that doesn't take scrolling through a menu just so that you can play one of four characters that you always play. So for example, you always play as Zelda, Mario, and your custom mii then you should be able to put their icons at the top of the screen for easy access.

As far as the Wii U goes, I think it will/should follow these traits

1. The regular menu features all normally playable characters with no customization, it will probably feature either very small icons, are some degree of scrolling, if it does scroll I wouldn't expect anything more than one or two extra rows or columns.
2. I think the customization option will open an overlay character select menu with icons of customized characters that can be selected in addition to the ones on the main screen, kind of like right clicking on a desktop, it is only accesible while you have it switched on, and goes away when switched off. In other words I do not think we will have the ability to customize characters in any way except Palette/alt swapping once you reach the character select screen. the characters will have to be customized in advance and saved to the customization menu, like how the stage creator worked. I think custom characters will include the mii fighters that you make and the modifications of regular characters too. (most likely you will be able to apply a name of some kind that will appear on this menu in some capacity, like John's Mario or Swordfighter Jill)

 

[the smash nerd]

With Lucina being a near-perfect clone, that pretty much re-opened Lucas' door. And Dr. Mario, Roy, and Pichu.

No FINGN in Smash 4

 

[strawhatninja]

Alright I want to theorize about the character select screen, these thoughts are based on what things look like to me in the demos and screenshots we've seen, but obviously this is just fun conjecture and by no means a "solid" argument

I think the entire concept of a character select screen is going to change significantly, especially for the 3ds.

First of all I think the Non-Custom select screen on the WII U (and possibly 3ds) will not feature the Mii Fighters in any way, it just wouldn't make since because they are so heavily based on customizing, and they can't be used online.

Furthermore, I do not think it is out of the question that the 3ds would feature a scrolling menu of some kind for character selection, frankly I hope it does. Not just for more characters but because cramming 50ish pictures on the regular sized 3ds screen is WAY to difficult to work with, the pictures woulds be to small. Honestly if you have even slightly bad eyesight I have no idea how you will be able to select a character on the regular 3ds unless there is a scrolling or zoom option. The screens we've seen already barely fit the number of character we already have announced, so hopefully some sort of visibility assistance will be incorporated.

My main solution to this problem is that the select screen on the 3ds should be customizable by the player, in other words I think you should be able to set up the screen to feature your personally customized characters or your mains/preferred characters in such a way that doesn't take scrolling through a menu just so that you can play one of four characters that you always play. So for example, you always play as Zelda, Mario, and your custom mii then you should be able to put their icons at the top of the screen for easy access.

As far as the Wii U goes, I think it will/should follow these traits

1. The regular menu features all normally playable characters with no customization, it will probably feature either very small icons, are some degree of scrolling, if it does scroll I wouldn't expect anything more than one or two extra rows or columns.
2. I think the customization option will open an overlay character select menu with icons of customized characters that can be selected in addition to the ones on the main screen, kind of like right clicking on a desktop, it is only accesible while you have it switched on, and goes away when switched off. In other words I do not think we will have the ability to customize characters in any way except Palette/alt swapping once you reach the character select screen. the characters will have to be customized in advance and saved to the customization menu, like how the stage creator worked. I think custom characters will include the mii fighters that you make and the modifications of regular characters too. (most likely you will be able to apply a name of some kind that will appear on this menu in some capacity, like John's Mario or Swordfighter Jill)

That is an interesting idea, and I guess it won't be long until we find out. On topic, I think we will have between 50-55 characters that just seems to make the most sense.

 

[BlueBubbee]

I did some math on the Mewtwo thread and I came up with how many characters should be in. I don't feel like retyping it so here's the quote:

I doubt the customizable specials will be as balanced as the regular moves, as you can't use them online. They still can't be overpowered, though.


I was looking at the numbers for the roster characters you gave, and I realized a pattern (if you all consider 3 a pattern).

64 was the first game, so it set the bar at 12 to start.
Melee was the second game, and it doubled the original size and added 2
Brawl was the third game, so it tripled the original and added 3.
If the pattern continues, U/3D will have 52, because it will quadruple the original and add 4.

Or, if you're more of an algebra person:
c = g(12) + g

C: Number of characters
G: Game number in the series

Does that make sense? I thought I'd post it here as this is the most logical place to put this.

 

[Burruni]

I did some math on the Mewtwo thread and I came up with how many characters should be in. I don't feel like retyping it so here's the quote:



Does that make sense? I thought I'd post it here as this is the most logical place to put this.

There's no particular math that can prove the size, because any equation needs the Sakurai variable, let's call it "S."
Also, your formula is already off.
C = 1 (12) + 1 = 13 characters in 64.
C = 2 (12) + 2 = 26 characters in Melee.
C = 3 (12) + 3 = 39 characters in Brawl.
C = 4 (12) + 4 = 52 characters in Sm4sh.

Frankly, the roster is 52S, and we have no way of solving for S until we know the total characters (C).
However, I foresee 53 characters in 51 slots, a 52nd slot being Random in a 4x13 layout. Let's hope that we both are basically right.

 

[BlueBubbee]

There's no particular math that can prove the size, because any equation needs the Sakurai variable, let's call it "S."
Also, your formula is already off.
C = 1 (12) + 1 = 13 characters in 64.
C = 2 (12) + 2 = 26 characters in Melee.
C = 3 (12) + 3 = 39 characters in Brawl.
C = 4 (12) + 4 = 52 characters in Sm4sh.

Frankly, the roster is 52S, and we have no way of solving for S until we know the total characters (C).
However, I foresee 53 characters in 51 slots, a 52nd slot being Random in a 4x13 layout. Let's hope that we both are basically right.

Formula does not apply for the first game, I thought I stated that in there...

And it's just a theory anyway.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

here is mine:
the roster for ssb4




.............................. .........................

(the substitutes are shulk and chorus men)

cut:

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

Let's see...
3DS:

--> Ghirahim

--> King K. Rool, Ridley

--> Chorus Kids
--> Shulk

--> Random Slots

Wii U:





The Random slot could be outside of the roster, maybe, or chosen by pressing some button...

 

[the smash nerd]

Let's see...
3DS:

--> Ghirahim

--> King K. Rool,

--> Chorus Kids
--> Shulk

--> Random Slots

Wii U:





The Random slot could be outside of the roster, maybe, or chosen by pressing some button...

here is mine:

 

[Retroend]

Something in my gut says that If Bandai Namco can give Tekken Tag Tournament 2 59 Balanced characters, I feel we could have something similar. For a game with So much expectation I don't think we'd get such a small roster.

Perhaps we'll get rows of 6 For the 3DS Version and it scrolls down. Shouldn't be a problem since we got our own individual systems now.

Used the 3DS select at E3 as reference and placed characters in between that made sense.

Mario and Yoshi Row
Donkey Kong, Wario, Rhythm Heaven : (Dixie, K.Rool, Rhythm Rep)
Zelda Row (Ghirahim)
Metroid and Kid Icarus (Ridley, Medusa)
RPG (Shulk, and Maybe...Issac or Wars Rep)
HAL -Lab Games (Maybe one more Mother character?)
Miyamoto Creations/Works?
Pokemon
Misc.
3rd Party and Random

This translates well here.

Wii U Version






Maybe both sides in the bottom will function as Random like Melee did?

60 Characters (includes the separate Miis), 58 Character Slots. Just my thoughts.

i like this roster, however there are some things i don't agree with. for starters, snake should be out. i seriously doubt we'll be getting more 3rd party characters and snake isn't as iconic as megaman, sonic and pacman.

2nd i don't think we'll get another kirby rep. if anything (and this is stretching it) paper mario should be added to the mario section, especially since there is a stage from his series in the game.

3rd, krystal should be added, the star fox series has had one new character added with each new series to smash, and krystal was important in star fox adventures and even gave her a role in assault. plus another female, who doesn't want that?

4th. originally there were going to be 7 pokemon characters in brawl since there was data for mewtwo in the game disc which means he was planned to be playable, but ran out of time. so since pokemon trainer isn't coming back, and we have a fire and water starter fighter, i think we should have a grass starter, which sceptile would fall into that catagory. plus he represents the 3rd generation, which hardly got any representation in brawl.

5th. i don't think medusa would be playable. hades was the main antagonist in uprising so i believe he should take up that slot. plus we need more villains in this game.

6th. i don't know about a 4th DK representative. king k rool is highly demanded so i doubt dixie could be in the final roster. you could if you wanted to, but the way i see the roster is that the mii fighters each have their own charcater slot so yea.

so the roster could be like this:

Mario
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Rosalina
6. Paper Mario

DK

7. DK
8. Diddy Kong
9. King K. Rool

Zelda

10. Link
11. Zelda
12. Sheik
13. Ganondorf
14. Toon Link
15. Ghirahim

Metroid

16. Samus
17. Zero Suit Samus
18. Ridley

Yoshi

19. Yoshi

Kirby

20. Kirby
21. Meta Knight
22. King Dedede

Star Fox

23. Fox
24. Falco
25. Wolf
26. Krystal

Pokemon

27. Pikachu
28. Jigglypuff
29. Mewtwo
30. Charizard
31. Lucario
32. Greninja
33. Sceptile

Earthbound

34. Ness
35. Lucas

Fire Emblem

36. Marth
37. Ike
38. Lucina
39. Robin

F-Zero

40. Capt. Falcon

Kid Icarus

41. Pit
42. Palutena
43. Hades

Ice Climber

44. Ice Climbers

Pikmin

45. Olimar

Warioware

46. Wario

Gyromite

47. R.O.B.

Game and Watch

48. Mr. Game and Watch

Animal Crossing

49. Villager

Punch Out

50. Little Mac

Wii Fit

51. Wii Fit Trainer

Golden Sun

52. Isaac

Xenoblade

53. Shulk

Rhythm Heaven

54. Marshal

Miiverse

55. Mii Brawler
56. Mii Swordsman
57. Mii Gunner

Sonic the Hedgehog

58. Sonic

Megaman

59. Megaman

Pacman

60. Pacman

just my input on this.

 

[mark welford]

my roster prediction is that there will be 49-50 characters which is the 37 we have now 10 vets (yes I am counting Lucas) and 2 more newcomers which I think could be shulk and chorus men and the random box.

I know I will be hated for this but this is my roster prediction
snake, ivysaur and squirtle are cut
melee veterans remain cut (this includes mewtwo no exceptions)
no ridley, k.rool, Dixie kong, sceptile, dark pit, hades, medusa, vaati, impa or krystal
keep in mind this is my roster prediction even you guys might hate me for it

 

[ShadowX39]

Starting and hidden

Sakurai changing rules again, I was so close too! Third parties influenced my choices..

So replace Falco, Chorus fellas, Lucas and Lucina with third parties + Metaknight.. sadly Ice Climbers just disappear.

I was having strong feelings that villains would all be hidden, but Metaknight was kinda iffy now that I think about it.

Anyway, full roster is only days away now!

 

[tomvoxx]

I'm thinking it will be between 50 and 60 characters for the full roster. I'll post my prediction later, but it includes possibilities for dlc later on as well.