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The PSI Powered Youth: Game Play General

Yink

The Robo-PSIentist
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As requested of me, this thread will be for Ness' gameplay discussion. How will this iteration of Ness match up to his previous ones? What's new and different? How can he utilize himself in the new game?

Things to think about:
  • B moves
  • Aerial changes
  • Cosmetics (are they JUST cosmetic differences?)
  • Recovery options
  • Custom moves
I personally only saw a little bit of him last night, but so far I'd say his nair is larger, PKT got larger and has decent knockback, and his Magnet got larger too. PKF looked a little nerfed, but I can't say for sure. Discuss what you know!
 
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Bartolon

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"Important things I noticed on the leak stream relating to Ness:

They added sparkles to some of his moves.

His fair has a new animation where he leans forward and stick out his arm. The sparkle looks smaller than before, but it reaches much further. Still has multiple hits, but seems to connect better. This is a huge buff imo. It's like a combo of Ness and Lucas' fairs from brawl.

Dair has the brawl animation (or something that looks like it) with an extra sparkle at the bottom. Again another combo between Ness and lucas (it still seems to only have one hit).

Dash attacks sparkles look smaller but appear to be more disjointed. Might have the same overall range, but Ness' model is way smaller in this game.

Pk thunder looks bigger. Didn't see pkt2 (sorry simna bin laden).

Pk fire looks like it reaches futher.

Pk flash was never fully charged but it's still definitely faster than melee. Not sure about the comparison to brawl's pk flash, but I think it's faster.

D-smash looks faster too. U-smash seems to be the same as in brawl. Like in his dash attack, his overall hurtbox is smaller in relation to the range of these attacks.

F-tilt looked the same. =/

U-tilt looked like it had some sparkles to it, but it was hard to tell.

Bair looked like it had some extra range and uair seemed to have a new animation, but I couldn't get good looks at them.

Same airdodge animation. Still has sparkles on his dj.

His new sfx are hilarious and trolly. Sounds like a psychic arcade machine lol.

Was gonna drop him for duck hunt dog, but now I might be able to beat the **** out of people with him in this game. Magicant might be my new favorite banned stage lol.

Together we ride from melee is still in. Hype.

IMPORTANT EDIT: Please do not attempt to infer the knockback of moves when they are used in 1p mode. Try using pkt on any team fight on easy in melee or 64 and it'll look op in those games too. If pkt is not intagible in this game like in melee then it will still probably be a bad projectile. I really want to know his alternate special moves since it could fix a lot of his problems."

Credits to thesagem on reddit/r/smashbros

Haven't seen any gameplay from ness myself but from what he's saying it sounds pretty good.
 
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Yink

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Bart you're a lifesaver (also, good to see you buddy).

I was watching, and the usmash and dsmash look like they're actually moves that kill earlier than in Brawl. Also thought I'd mention that dash attack killed Trainer at like 78% I think (of course we're not seeing DI or anything here), just thought I'd bring it up because it has a lot more knockback than before. But yeah you have to take into account this is 1P mode.

As a funny side note, I like the new voice for Ness, but when he says "Okay," it sounds a little derpy, haha.
 
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Yink

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Tofer I sure did enjoy your gameplay information you just posted. ;) C'mon man.
 
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Sorry I got so excited I forgot to say what I observed myself.

I noticed that his Yoyo is a LOT more stronger than it was in the previous games, and in my opinion comes out a lot faster.
All the games I see of him playing with his PK Thunder is either missed or never gets to use it, but from what I see with the missile speed is relatively unchanged and it disappears when it hits someone TT^TT

I can also confirm his Utilt has sparkle effect on them too.

His BAIR animation is changed, so he looks like to he is more horizontal, almost like Mario's, and not doing a double back kick like in past games.
It does look like it has more range though.

I also saw fsmash murder someone at like 70%ish, I think it was off the side and close to blast zone, but still it is a monster hit now which is amazingggg.
 
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ElectricCitrus

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Anyone have Ness gameplay? I unfortunately missed all the streams because of classes. :/ If it's footage including Magicant that's even better! Thanks in advance! <3
 

Yink

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Sadly the big streams were hours long so I can't link you anything specifically. Perhaps if you just wait a little while (maybe a few hours?) you'll see some footage on YouTube. If not, you'll see some footage in a day due to the official release. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful!
 

ElectricCitrus

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hey it's all good, I'll just wait around on Youtube. I'm sad I missed everything. I wanted to see magicant in all its glory.
 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXKjZjN_3vA

This is what I am going based off of.

Dash attack looks totally wicked now.
It's not as big but it looks like it goes out longer and the visual effect more spread out. I love it.

It also looks like you can combo out of Utilt a little easier now.
^0^

I am so overjoyed right now, you have no idea.
Ness looks so great!
 
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Yink

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I really want to know what dthrow does for Ness. Like, Mario's really didn't pop people up like it used to so he was able to combo nicely out of it. I'd love if Ness had the same kind of treatment, but I never saw dthrow once. I only saw uthrow.
 
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We can only rely on ourselves for specific things.
But I am hyped for dthrow uair.

Also, super cool find about his dash attack.
When he hits there is one orb on his palm and 2 more outside of it.
 
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thesage

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Do not rely on footage from 1p mode to gauge knockback values of his moves. 1p mode changes those stats around based on the difficultly level.

I still stand by my point that Ness will need custom moves that help him deal with projectiles. Link, Megaman, Mario, and Shiek will probably be nightmare matchups for him unless he pulls something out of his ass. Then again nobody really owns the game yet so we can't discuss matchups in depth yet.

PKT2 is still one of the worst recoveries in the game.
 

Tikao

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ok, buffed up moves

utilt : looks like it has a bigger hitbox overall and juggling potential

dashattack : faster, less frames between hits probadly means it hits better

dsmash/usmash : seem slightly faster and although you can't say when it kills or what knockback it has, i think it is safe to say it has more knockback/kills earlier

pkt1 : bigger, so easier to hit people and it could be a freaking killmove (!!!) (like for usmashj/dsmash hard to say, because the knockback is diffrent in 1p mode, but it's knockback has been buffed to the skies compared to any other smash)

pk-fire : reaches further, travels faster, and since sdi is nearly (or even literally) gone, it's actually guaranteed to hit for more than just 3% and it might even have less endlag

pkt2 : passively buffed as a recovery because of the new edge mechanics

psi-magnet : bigger, faster, less endlag

if any of you saw somebody finishing the classic mode on stream, sometimes masterhand kinda turned into a black-pixel ... thing, which had multiple forms, one of them where some floating swords, and one attack of them was to slash in front of them which sent out a rotating sword projectile, it doesn't seemed energy-based at all to me, but ness could absorb it with his down-b, so it might work on more projectiles now

maybe buffed up moves (funny how these are all his aerials)

fair : ok, this has a new animation, ness now kinda tilts forward for his fair, which might give him more range forward, but it also extents his hurtbox forward, so this could be a nerf as well

bair : some people say it's new sparkle thing at the end gives it a biogger hitbox, which might be true, but ness is smaller afterall, so the hitbox might be nearly the same

nair : seemes to have a bigger hitbox too, but ness is still smaller (aka look at bair)

dair : same as bair again


excluding his grabs and throws here since i haven't seen them yet, i just hope his bthrow is still the strongest throw in terms of knockback and his dthrow deals nice damage and gives him combo potential
 

Little Nemo

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Ness for once actually looks viable. The way recovery works in this game I think his PKT2 recovery won't be quite as terrible.
I can't wait to get my hands on him.
 

Yink

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@ thesage thesage : Bro, we already said the disclaimer that 1P mode is only good for learning about how basic understandings and said that you can't take it totally seriously due to difficulty spikes (not to mention when you lose and continue you lose difficulty by .5).

I'd say yes to PKT2 still being bad, but I'll also say it looks like it really did get buffed in terms of distance traveled which does help Ness overall.
 
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In one of the streams for 1p mode they used PKT2 and he shot pretty far.
If I saw correctly, they still have the lag where he hits then goes flying, which I LOVE!

I was watching Nakat play someone over wifi, and the landing lag on PKT2 is almost not there at all.
He recovered incredibly fast.
 
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capn'

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This is just an early observation, but while watching the gema stream yesterday, I could have sworn at one point that Master-Hand's energy projectiles curved into Ness' PSI-Magnet after it's start animation.

I **** you not, like a true magnet, it pulled the projectiles towards him. I'm just curious whether or not Ness' magnet has new properties akin to Rosalina's down-b, where it has some vacuum mechanic.

Another interesting thing to note, during the stream today, gema showed one of Ness' alternate down-b moves:
- This one did act like a true magnet
- No heal, but it draws in players towards ness (in this case a CPU Dr. Mario)
- When released it releases a 'pop' that damages players for 23%!
- This move looked to be KO'ing at ~100%

This move looks like it has a lot of potential for combo strings by sucking players back in during hit-stun after popping out of a combo.

I know this is all unsubstantiated right now, wish I had to presence of mind to .gif some of the footy, but I was just too hyped to focus on that. Thoughts?
 

Yink

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Dair does look a little nerfed now that I've seen more gameplay, but only in terms of power. It comes out faster and it does still spike, thankfully. I'll be able to give more info in a few hours.
 

StarshipGroove

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-Yo yos no longer have charging hitboxes
-Fair deals a pitiful 7% damage
-Pk Fire has huge lag
-Dair is weaker
-Pk flash still sux
-Pk magnet does nothing
 

capn'

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I'm really excited to see what the rest of his custom moves look like.

I had seen some strings on Reddit saying that he has PK Freeze as an alt Neutral B. If PK Flash is still iffy like you say it is, then it might be nice to have the ability to sub it out for something a little more useful.

Just curious, has anyone seen any of Ness' throws so far? Please tell me D-Throw and B-Throw are intact.
 

Tikao

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ok i just saw ness' dthrow and bthrow on stream (vs dk)

dthrow is similar to brawl dthrow, but doesn't launch them as far at early % anymore and more above ness, meaning it could start a combo
dthrow -> fair shoulod be true, and after that fair you should have follow ups
dthrow -> uair/nair might also be true
and even if none of them are actually true, they're still great follow ups

bthrow didn't killed dk over the stage at 119%, and after that it didn't killed at the middle of the platfrom 133% (keep in mind it was staled at that point)
it however killed at 143% between the middle and the edge of the platform (used the 3. time,. so even more staled at this point)

dk should be kinda heavy, so that is no surprise
should kill ~130% at the middle of the stage if it is not staled and the charakter is not heavy (dk, bowser, ddd ...) , which is great considering that blast zones are farther away in this game and it is overall harder to kill people (excluding some certain moves ofc.)

bthrow deals 12% (11% in brawl)) damage if unstaled and is still a killmove ( a bit weaker though)
dthrow deals 9% (9% in brawl too) damage if unstaled and a potential combo-starter

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and in the same match, uncharged (!) fsmash 'nearly' killed dk at 80% at the middle of the stage
could kill dk ~90 at the middle of the stage, at 95% for sure, and even sooner at the edge of the stage

fair also seems like a good move, less damage and not as good for spacing anymore, but a great and fast offensive move (has good range forward because of the animation leaning forward, even though the hitboxes are actually smaller
 

aralove

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Normal Attacks

Neutral attack: First and second hit do 2% damage, third hit does 4%.
Dash attack: First hit does 4% damage, second hit does 2%, third hit does 4%.
Forward tilt: Forward hit does 9% damage, Upward hit does 10%, Downward hit does 10%.
Up tilt: Does 7% damage each hit.
Down tilt: Does 4% damage each hit.

Smash Attacks

Forward smash: Does 25-30% damage when fully charged, 18-22% when uncharged.
Up Smash: Does 12% damage when opponent is in front of Ness, and 18% when the opponent is in air/behind Ness. When uncharged, does 9% or 13% in air/behind. No longer has a hitbox while charging.
Down smash: Can hit 3 times on each hit. When fully charged, it does 1%/1%/14% damage on both hits. When uncharged it does 1%1%/10% on both hits, no longer has a hitbox while charging.

Aerial Attacks
Neutral air:
Does 11% damage.
Back air: Does 15% damage most of the time, but can hit for as low as 8% in some areas.
Forward air: Can hit 3 times, 1% damage on the first hit, 2% on the second and 4% on the third hit.
Up air: Does 13% damage.
Down air: Does 10-12% damage.

Grab Attacks

Pummel: Does 1% each hit.
Forward throw: Does 11% damage.
Downward throw: Does 9% damage.
Upward throw: Does 10% damage.
Backward throw: Does 11% damage, still a great KO move.

Special Moves

PK Flash: Does 37% damage when fully charged and as low as 9% when uncharged. Still very slow and misses easily.
PK Fire: Does 6% damage on the first hit, then 2% for each following hit. Shoots further.
PK Thunder: Does 8% damage when absorbed by an enemy, if hit by it's tail 1% is done each time. Has a larger hitbox and PKT2 does 25% damage.
PSI Magnet: Absorbs some projectiles, giving Ness health in return. Has less lag and appears to be larger, push effect on release is very weak.

Custom Moves

PK Flash 2: Larger red version of PK Flash, goes straight up with very little maneuverability. When fully charged does 31% damage and as low as 7% when uncharged. Doesn't seem applicable in stages without a lot of vertical space, but could be used to KO opponents that are close to the top blast zone.
PK Freeze (PK Flash 3): Freezes opponent dealing 19% damage, not much faster than PK Flash.
PK Fire 2: Shoots slower and has a shorter range, but produces a bigger fire that does 6% damage on impact, then burns repeatedly for damage between 2-5% every hit.
PK Fire 3: Shoots straight, does 1% damage on the first hit, then 8% on the second hit and stops burning. Knocks the opponent back.
PK Thunder 2: Does not absorb when coming into contact with opponents. Does 7% damage on the first hit, and then 1% on every following hit.
PK Thunder 3: Larger and slower, doesn't shoot Ness as far but does 11% damage when absorbed, and 28% with PKT2.
PSI Magnet 2: Sucks nearby opponents towards Ness. When released, deals 4-10% damage to opponents depending on how close they are. KO potential at high percents, does not replenish Ness' health or absorb projectiles.
PSI Magnet 3: Is positioned in front of Ness, leaving his back vulnerable but deals 8-9% damage to opponents inside it's center when released.
 
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north-note

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well, his custom start to resemble to lucus more now, except that pk freeze is much slower(lucas is faster so I heard), I still miss lucas up smash ;(
 

thesage

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Pk flash iterations sound kinda meh, that red pk flash sounds like it could be the best, just based off of the fact that we know pk flash and pk freeze sucked in brawl lol. Pk fire 3, which sounds like Lucas' pk fire, sounds like the best version. Pk thunder 2, which is also Lucas' version, sounds like the best version too, unless pk thunder is now intangible. I think psi magnet 2 might be the best, but it depends on how it works. Really need to see a video of these moves badly.
 

aralove

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Pk flash iterations sound kinda meh, that red pk flash sounds like it could be the best, just based off of the fact that we know pk flash and pk freeze sucked in brawl lol. Pk fire 3, which sounds like Lucas' pk fire, sounds like the best version. Pk thunder 2, which is also Lucas' version, sounds like the best version too, unless pk thunder is now intangible. I think psi magnet 2 might be the best, but it depends on how it works. Really need to see a video of these moves badly.
Yeah, I've been using PK Fire 3, Thunder 2 and Magnet 2 and I'm pretty confident those are the best options. Still unsure about PK Flash, as the default and PK Freeze don't really seem viable because of how slow they are. PSI Magnet 3 would be better if the damage hitbox was bigger but I think the suction move is a great option when your opponent is at a high percent.
 

Tikao

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ok, bthrow just killed peach at 90% at the edge of the stage and at 120 % (nearly) over the entire stage

soooo it's NOT nerfed :DDDD
 

Tikao

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i was watching Fow's stream quite a while, but he was not playing ness the entire time, so did he actually started to play ness later on, so it is worth watching everything? (was watching zero's stream the entire team)
 
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PKNintendo

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Haha, the new Ness looks pretty great

I'm sure he'll be a good character this time around
 

StarshipGroove

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Damn! his back throw is INSANE! It has more launching power than it ever had before!
 
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