The Onion - Gathering and Storing our Frame Data!

[DtJ Hilt]

Yeah you'll need to make a whole new code

 

[Weruop]

After dropping from the edge, you must input UpB 7 or 8 frames later in order to perform the auto ledge hop thing that Brood's good at. 2 Frame window :o around. .10seconds - .12seconds.

Also, I think it'd be fun to have a little competition put on the first page of the social thread ( or have a whole new thread made) where u see how many of the upb things you can hit in a minute. then u save the match and upload it with whatever. there can also be another competetion where we see who can do the most in a row.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

Can you explain all the frame stuff involving hitstun and how its useful. I'm on my phone so clicking show for everything would take forever, plus I've been gone for a minute and wpups probably miss something anyway

 

[Weruop]

whenll u have a a computer?
and whats wpups?
hitlag is basically vulnerability that a character and its enemy undergo when they colide with an attack, but for olimars grabs and smashes, the PIKMIN undergoes the hitlag, so olimar is able to move on an earlier frame than if his upsmash involved, say, olimar body (like hit jab and tilts). This makes comboing easier than it should be. After undergoing the hitSTUN, the enemy undergoes hitLAG. we compare the total hitstunn/lag the enemy undergoes from our smashes/grabs and compare it to how quickly we are able to move after we input that move, and it shows us our frame advantage.

some of the data is showing that after a certain percentage, down throw hitstun decreases dramatically, but its different for certain pikmin. also, certain pikmin deal MORE hitlag/stun, but the percentage at which the enemy can quickly air dodge after it is less ( yellows for example have the best hitstun/lag, but d throw > guaranteed followup only works to a certain percent. Blues have a tiny bit less hitstun/lag for dthrow, but u can get the guaranteed followup at higher percents ). etc

 

[Pyronic_Star]

waiting to buy a hard drive from a smasher uncle, mine crashed

did not know about the pikmin taking the hitlag opposed to olimar, but it makes sense.
has the data shown any comboes or setup's we were unaware of? that's what I was more referring too

BTW... thanks

 

[Weruop]

ALL FOR META:

Red Downthrow Hitstun
Percentage Hitstun Frame Advantage
0-4% 30 17
5-8% 31 18
9-999% 14 1

Yellow Downthrow Hitstun
Percentage Hitstun Frame Advantage
0%: 29 19
1-6%: 30 20
7-12%: 31 21
13-999% 14 4
Blue Downthrow Hitstun
Percentage Hitstun Frame Advantage
0-4% 29 16
5-11% 30 17
12-16% 31 18
17-999% 14 1

white Downthrow Hitstun
Percentage Hitstun Frame Advantage
0-5% 29 16
6-13% 30 17
14-19% 31 18
20-999% 14 1

PurpleDownthrow Hitstun
Percentage Hitstun Frame Advantage
0-999% 14 1

conclusion: d throw has a guaranteed fair(atleast) with the following pikmin at their respective percentages
r-0-8
y-0-12
b-0-16
w-0-19
p-0-0

for Snake:
r-0-12
y-0-16
b-0-22
w-0-25
p-0-0

what else...
buffereing a dthrow from a pummel basically makes the d throw finish 3 frames early for OLIMAR but theyll still have the same hitstun/lag/releasetime.

aaaand this ones awesome. if we get an upsmash kill and then upsmash the opponent with a yellow at 0% while the upsmash kill is 1st in ur stale moves list, we have TWENTY frames of advantage. so u can like charge an upsmash for .1seconds right after, pluck and then SH upair, etc. lots of options

and this is a copy paste: Did some more testing with staled up smash. First of all, I forgot to mention that Dair is legit after a stale up smash. Up Smash -> Footstool -> Dair is actually a combo, but if the opponent mashes air dodge, you have a 1 frame window to input the second jump, because characters can't be footstooled while they're in hitstun, and 2 frames after hitstun, their air dodge comes out.

Also, and this is kinda big, if you're on a stage with a breakable object (Castle Siege statues, Luigi's Mansion pillars, possibly Wario's Bike), after landing a kill, stale the **** out of your up smash, hitting it on the object. It's now stale enough to dish out hitstun after a Red, Yellow, Blue, or White down throw.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

I c, thanks for summarizing

 

[Luxor]

However, Luxor, I have a request of you. Somewhere on this site there's a formula that tells exactly how the formula for staled moves works. If you know this, or know where to find it, I would be greatly appreciative.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=285502 I found this here:
damage=base damage as listed for the hitbubble in PSA * staleness modifier (fresh=1.05, q0=1, q1=.9, q2=.81, etc=.73, .66, .6, .55, .51, .48, .46). Damage is read to the hundredths place, so #.xx. So if you were wondering if fractional damage is possible... it is. /verilquote

There it is, I think. Sorry I didn't see this before

Also hahahahaha @ laymen who can't read that thread

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Started testing hitstun for stale dthrow. This is having Down Throw in the first slot in the stale moves list. All I've tested so far is Blue on Meta Knight. I plan to test the other four colors on him as well, and then probably on snake. I also want to get the data for dthrow in the second slot, but not the first, to see how legit dthrow-> fair -> dthrow -> something combos are, and in what situations. But I'll test all of that another time. Here's what I have for now:

[Collapse=Stale Blue Downthrow Hitstun (Meta Knight)]

[B]Blue Downthrow Hitstun[/B]
[U][b]Percentage[/b][/U]     [b][u]Hitstun[/b][/u]        [b][u]Frame Advantage[/u][/b]
6-9%           29	      16
10-16%         30             17
17-22%         31             18
23-999%        14             1

[/Collapse]
Hitlag in this situation is the exact same as it is when fresh, so the frame advantage is essentially the same. Just that it lasts a lot longer. Dthrow combos work with a fresh blue dthrow until 17%, while lasting until 22% with it stale in the first slot. This means that if you land a second dthrow after the first, the second dthrow will always have enough hitstun for you to combo into something else afterwards. Also, I started the minimum percentage at 6% because it's the lowest amount of damage you can deal to an opponent from the first dthrow.

I'm tired. Gonna get some sleep

 

[Luxor]

After undergoing the hitSTUN, the enemy undergoes hitLAG.

I was checking up on this thread and this hurt my eyes. It's hitlag--> hitstun obv. *crosses fingers and hopes it was a typo*

Also, Hilt, was that 1st Dthrow for staling occupying the "first dthrow of the stock" slot or the regular 1st position?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

It's with Downthrow in the last slot regularly. Is there a difference if Dthrow is in hte last slot but the other slots are unoccupied? I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Weruop]

yeah that was a typo sorry lol.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Small stuff, thought I'd post it in here. I'm comparing the different methods of movement. This is mostly involving ways to stop a dash, but it includes the data for a bit more as well, including Fox Trots.

Turning Around
Turn around while standing: 1 Frame
Turn around during a walk: 3 Frames
Turn around during a dash: 24 Frames

Shield Canceling Dashes
When you shield, you have to wait through at least the first seven frames of the shield before you can begin the shield drop. Shield Drop has seven more frames of lag. So, canceling your dash with a shield takes 14 Frames.

Fox Trot
If the control stick is only held forward during a dash for the first ten frames of the dash, Olimar will perform a Fox Trot instead of going into the full dash. A fox trot lasts for 21 frames, including the ten frames of the initial start up. During this time (and the next frame afterwards, actually, so for 22 frames) Olimar is counted as being in a dash. So grabbing during this time will cause him to perform a dash grab, and attacking will result in a dash attack. Even when it seems like Olimar has stopped, if you start a dash grab, he will actually dash forward again and go for a grab, if it is within this time frame.

Pluck Canceling Dashes
Well I wanna first of all tell everyone that I was wrong about something a long time ago. Pikmin Puck takes eight frames. Not nine. Go figure. I'll make sure I didn't make any other mistakes. With that said, though, pluc canceling our dashes is our fastest option. After the pluck we're left in the standing state, meaning turning around takes one frame, even if we were dashing beforehand. And you can even go from a dash to a fox trot or a walk. Trying to cancel your dash and whiffing the pluck (already have six pikmin) takes 32 frames.

Edit: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287795
**** this game

 

[Jane]

so then, plucking to fsmash (for example), is the fastest way to fsmash from a dash? sweet

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Oh, I forgot stuff. Stopping a dash and switching to the standing position takes 14 frames. Doing the same from a walk takes one. But yeah, pluck canceling is our best way of doing ****.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Alright, just got finished testing everything that's legal. Here's the list. Everything I'm listing adds an extra frame to our 8 frame Pikmin Pluck for some bull**** reason

Lylat: Full Stage
Frigate: Full Stage
Norfair: Full Stage
Brinstar: Platforms and the breakable center.
PS1: All of the rock phase except for the far ends where it's white. All of the ground of the fire phase, excluding where it's covered by a wooden floor of the house.
Halberd: The first phase on the moving stage, and the platform on the Ship Phase.

Other mentions: Corneria and Summit (LOL IT ACTUALLY GOT WORSE FOR US)

*grumblegrumble*

 

[Dnyce]

Edit: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287795
**** this game

 

[BSL]

are we gonna put the accurate frame data for all of olimar's moves in here?

 

[Dnyce]

are we gonna put the accurate frame data for all of olimar's moves in here?

No, I'm going to make my own thread. In the mean time, you can post things you want tested here =p