The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Nidtendofreak]

Bullet Seed isn't all that great in most matchups. It's pretty rare for it to be doing more than 20% except maybe against larger characters. I'd be more scared of Snake's f-tilt in any case.

Lately, in quite a few matchups I've had Ivysaur's role be to stay out long enough to refresh the other two. It's actually a pretty important role in matchups where I tend to switch quite a bit (Snake and Wario for example), since it can take up to two minutes to fully refresh a pokemon. So, thanks to the character design of PT as a whole, Ivysaur doesn't actually have to do all that much to be useful. Ivysaur is more of a wall-type character, so you would think she'd be pretty good at this role. Her poor air speed is one of the major reasons why she's not a good character... it's hard to keep a lot of characters out with such low air mobility.

Between her terrible air mobility, terrible projectile, and lack of hitstun in Brawl which hinders her main spacing move, I have trouble seeing how she can wall for long at all without taking a fair amount of damage...planking really isn't even an option for her. >_>

And Bullet Seed from what I've see is a good "punish from under the platform" move when the opponent isn't at KOing %. Or I could be wrong, Ivy is the PT pokemon I give the least amount of attention.

 

[da K.I.D.]

planking adds nothing to pits high level meta.

if you have to camp the ledge from time to time when you are getting pressured to make a safe way for yourself on to the stage, thats entirely different.

planking, is excessive camping and the refusal to remove yourself from the ledge, which limits your options and makes you retardedly predictable in your actions, and since the current metagame is all about reading your opponent, planking detracts from pits game because it leaves him vulnerable due to his lack of options in that situation. you can basically jump away from the ledge and shoot an arrow, ledge hop a fair onstage, or up air at the ledge. any body with a bit of patience can beat that. it really doesnt make him a better character.



also. as far as ivysour goes, i think what more important than the lack of hitstun in brawl is the fact that her main spacing move only does 4 damage max, and to do that it has to hit with both hits and be fresh.

 

[demonictoonlink]

planking adds nothing to pits high level meta.
.

@ <3
This guy is lol
Pit shouldn't only plank. He's solid as is. He just won't admit it is a legitimate, helpful option for Pit.
It is, but say what you want dude.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

BTW, just because a Pit isn't "arrow camping" doesn't mean he is playing aggressive.

 

[deepseadiva]

PT needs a way to make Ivysaur actually borderline useful to really move up. She's too much of a dead weight.

What are you talking about?

Ivysaur is the best one.

 

[Smoom77]

PT needs a way to make Ivysaur actually borderline useful to really move up. She's too much of a dead weight.

What are you talking about?

Ivy is a guy.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ivy is a she because Ivy is short for Ivysaur, and Ivy is also a character from SC, who is most defiantly a female. >_> If I see Ivy, I instantly think female.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ivy is a she because Ivy is short for Ivysaur, and Ivy is also a character from SC, who is most defiantly a female. >_> If I see Ivy, I instantly think female.

You fail. That is all.

 

[Goldenadept]

You fail. That is all.

how? most people make that assumption, there's no difference between the ivysaur genders (unlike pikachu) plus ivy in general is just a feminine name, ivysaur is a lady

 

[Magik0722]

Well in the pokemon comics the trainer Red had a ivysuar and it was male, if the brawl is the same one as that then its male as well. Also ivysuars have a 87.5% chance to be male in the games so i'd place my bet on that

 

[Chuee]

Ivy is a male because his voice is low.

 

[Goldenadept]

maybe ivy is just a chain smoker? i'd rather it be a female anyways cause then you can pretend PT got a lucky 12.5% catch with that bulbasaur

 

[ShadowLink84]

how? most people make that assumption, there's no difference between the ivysaur genders (unlike pikachu) plus ivy in general is just a feminine name, ivysaur is a lady

You would have been better off saying Ivy=plant=female gender in most languages.(key word being MOST)

I suppose because of assumptions Charizard is female, Lucario is female, Zelda is a hermafrodite and Link is actually a woman wearing's men's clothing.


In general, the word IT should be used in regards to the pokemon.
I like to say IT.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Then half of their game is using a character that is already meh at KOing, and who's KOing power is dropping with every second passed and every attack made. Not This is not a good thing for obvious reasons. >_> Throw in the fact it forces you to be obvious when you're going for a flat out KO (switching), and it's that little bit worse.

There is also the fact you have to rely on Ivysaur for at least a little while each match which is flat out terrible.

PT needs a way to make Ivysaur actually borderline useful to really move up. She He's too much of a dead weight. Charizard at least has his weight, grab range, and rock smash so he can carry his weight on the team, as well as the most KO potential over all. Right now Ivysaur has vertical KOing and...bBullet sSeed kinda I guess. That's about it. He maybe also has bBair spacing but that thing would be more useful if Brawl had more hitstun.

No comma was needed there.

That sentence is incomplete.


Unless gender is 100% confirmed, proper English grammar dictates that you use male pronouns for any gendered entity.

Bullet seed is not a proper noun, therefore it should not be capitalized.


That sentence was also incomplete because it lacked a subject. Furthermore "bair" is not a proper noun.


I think that's it, I might have missed something though.

Spoiler

Of course this was all a ploy to nip the ivysaur's gender issue in the bud by pointing out the pronoun required by proper grammar.

 

[deepseadiva]

He also used "weight" in both the literal and metaphorical sense in the same sentence.

I'm sure that's also wrong.

 

[Poltergust]

In general, the word IT should be used in regards to the pokemon.
I like to say IT.

Do they say "it" in the anime? I remember that they don't pluralize the names of Pokemon ("Look at all of those Pikachu!"), but I'm not sure about gender...

Bullet seed is not a proper noun, therefore it should not be capitalized.

I know that this was a joke, but specials normally are capitalized.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

No comma was needed there.

That sentence is incomplete.


Unless gender is 100% confirmed, proper English grammar dictates that you use male pronouns for any gendered entity.

Bullet seed is not a proper noun, therefore it should not be capitalized.


That sentence was also incomplete because it lacked a subject. Furthermore "bair" is not a proper noun.


I think that's it, I might have missed something though.

Spoiler

Of course this was all a ploy to nip the ivysaur's gender issue in the bud by pointing out the pronoun required by proper grammar.

You think that's bad?

You should have seen my posts BEFORE Safari got built in spellcheck/grammar check. :D

 

[Nidtendofreak]

EDIT: My internet spazed and double posted.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Double posting now are we??

 

[ShadowLink84]

Then half of their game is using a character that is already meh at KOing, and who's KOing power is dropping with every second passed and every attack made. This is not a good thing for obvious reasons. >_> Throw in the fact it forces you to be obvious when you're going for a flat out KO (switching), and it's that little bit worse.

There is also the fact you have to rely on Ivysaur for at least a little while each match which is flat out terrible.

PT needs a way to make Ivysaur actually borderline useful to really move up. She He's too much of a dead weight. Charizard at least has his weight, grab range, and rock smash so he can carry his weight on the team, as well as the most KO potential over all. Right now Ivysaur has vertical KOing and...bullet seed kinda I guess. That's about it. He maybe also has bBair spacing but that thing would be more useful if Brawl had more hitstun.

I believe you place a comma after the word "then" since it represents transition.
Example:
Finally,

Please correct me if I am wrong.
I rather hate it when people say KO'ing. (Knock outing?)
One would typically saying "knocking out" but saying KO'ing places the ING on the word "out".
AH well we all imply knocking out so moot point.

I think the sentence of "He maybe also has bair spacing" would be better as "He may also HAVE bair spacing"

It would also be much more concise if it said "but IT would be more useful" rather than "but that thing would be more useful."

May I use that grammar nazi poster now?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

AH well we all imply knocking out so moot point.

Can I use that grammar nazi poster now?

Fission Mailed.

XD

Smooth Criminal

 

[Morrigan]

Smash is Japanese, so is Pokemon. Now I don't know what "Fushigisou" means but you cannot say "Ivysaur" is female because of the [probably stupid] translation.

 

[Kewkky]

You think that's bad?

You should have seen my posts BEFORE Safari got built in spellcheck/grammar check. :D Now I just add/replace/drop various words/commas/capitals.

Oh my God, you reminded me of Family Guy.

Peter: "Oh crap, this whole thing is going to hell... This is worse than that time Bob Marley said he was going off of marijuana

Spoiler

never happened in the show, just an example of their jokes

!"

D:


Ivysaur is, and always will be, the worst out of the 3. Why was the discussion about that up anyway? He literally has it worse than the other 2 pokemon... He may be better at some points than Squirtle or Charizard, but overall he has the worst cons and least pros... He should just be used to take a death when your % goes high, or to refresh your pokemon's stamina, which considering his sad and lackluster moveset, was probably his programmers' intentions all along.

 

[Shaya]

Ivysaur's bullet seed isnt even that good.

Auto smash di (i.e. the holding of any direction at the end of hit lag) facing towards Ivy will always result in you evading it with -most- characters.
As in, at least the good ones :3
Including sexy fatties like D3.

And as Ivysaur is gimped central, one ASDI'd bullet seed gives you that free grab that places Ivy off the ground facing forwards, where she has like NO OPTIONS.
AGAINST EVERY CHARACTER WHOS EVEN REMOTELY GOOD.
At least at low percents.

 

[Ripple]

if only he had like 20% better aerial control. he would be SOOOOOO much better

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Meh, I thought bullet seed had some use. It was argued as such last time in the Ike/PT MU. Then again, at the time they though bullet seed had a frame 1 activation. lol. And then we found out Ike punish it with Fsmash...

w/e. Ivy is even worse then I thought she was then.

 

[Shaya]

One of the worst aerial momentums in the game :|

Ivy really got shafted.

Her bair actually doing more damage/getting opponents away (like Marths fair, falco's bair, etc etc type hitback) would have made her UNBELIEVABLY BETTER. Like a stupidly annoying AERIAL OLIMAR. It's the sad thing that if even ivy hits you with her bair, a lot of characters can reach and hit you again anyway :\

 

[Magik0722]

screw you guys ivysuar is legit

Charizard > Ivy > Squirtle

 

[Shaya]

I'll kill you in your sleep Magik.

I'll stop killing you when you start timing out people with Ivysaur instead of le awesome Squirtle

But yes, Magik's ivy is legit.
Because he's magic.
Only him and Reflex's ftilts are safe on shield.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Relfex's Rocksmash is amazing, it beats all of G&W's aerials.

 

[Steeler]

ahhhhhhhh ****

the best thing about ivy is fsmash

bullet seed has frame 1 invincibility at least

 

[Ripple]

I hear PT mains like to take shoes and not mail them back after 2 months

coughsteelercough

 

[CaliburChamp]

Bullet seed is still very good, it has a huge hitbox and does a lot of damage. Any move that has a big hitbox and does a lot of damage is good, there's no denying that. I'd say Ivysaur is bottom of low tier. And Ivysaur has the farthest reaching tether in the game, it helps somewhat. Ivysaur has a good amount of disjoints, and his moveset synergizes nicely together. Ivysaur can event grab release to F-smash for an easy finisher on some characters, Ivy's grab lifts even tall characters above the ground. I'd say Ivysaur is better than Ganon, Link, C. Falcon, and Jigglypuff, but no better than that.

Also, I believe MK and Snake should be in the same tier as Diddy Kong, Wario, Falco, DDD, Marth, IC's, and Pikachu. So many people know those 2 match ups really well now.

 

[Kewkky]

Does Ivysaur have less grab-release frames than other characters? His fsmash takes some time to start up, it isn't exactly fast... I can see the opponent having time to grab him out of the smash when they're released if Ivysaur doesn't have less grab-release frames.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Does Ivysaur have less grab-release frames than other characters? His fsmash takes some time to start up, it isn't exactly fast... I can see the opponent having time to grab him out of the smash when they're released if Ivysaur doesn't have less grab-release frames.

I dont know about the grab release frame numbers. Ivy's F-smash isn't really that slow for a smash attack, and it's hit box range for f-smash is huge, so it cover's a big distance. And no, the opponents wont have time to grab hit out of the smash after the release, f-smash isn't that slow, and f-smash can't really be shield grabbed since Ivy charges back, lunges forward, then pulls back to it's normal positioning, and it pushes the opponent back a good distance when shielded. Some character would have enough time to powershield the grab release to F-smash.

 

[deepseadiva]

Ivysaur needs to be called a "worse Meta Knight" and not a "worse Olimar."

Both their aerial speeds are dumb and plus it will help his self esteem.

 

[Kewkky]

Yes it can be shieldgrabbed. All it takes is for the opponent to leave the shield pressed, and grab. He might shift back, but what happens after Ivy hits the opponent's shield? It's like saying Snake's dthrow>utilt is hard to avoid, but in reality if you roll the utilt misses you due to your invincibility frames.

Like I said, Ivy might have one or two OK qualities, but nothing he has is great. I could say "Ganon's fsmash has amazing KO power and his sideB sets up techchasing scenarios", but both you and me know that there are better attacks for both situations, and that Ganon is still horrible overall.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Fission Mailed.

XD

Smooth Criminal

NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THAT!?

/wrist

 

[Espy Rose]

NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THAT!?

/wrist

Way to break him, Smooth Criminal. Now he's typing with caps lock.

 

[derio45]

what!? meta knight ranked 1!? thats BS hes so broken ugh! well falco is in a good place but i didnt see mario....