The Never Ending List of Toon's AT's and Tricks / The Data Dump / Song of Brainstorms

[UncleSam]

what about separating usefulness and complexity?
two different ratings? people will understand how hard it is and also have the usefulness factor in play
"ok so this AT is hard but really useful better practice it alot" <--- thought going through somebody's head
just another thing to munch on

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Hey you guys... some of you guys will remember me. Hi Fox, long time no chat.

But I was wondering if you guys could make use of this new AT with pikachu? I'm teaming with my bro (arc-thefallen-, bombcrazed TL main) and am going to advance the technique. Here's the original post AND video! ^_^ enjoy!

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8104088&postcount=14

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@UncleSam: I had thought about having a complexity rating or something along the lines of that. But I realised that complexity is very person specific. Like I find stuff hard that other people reckon is easy and visa versa. That, and, if I've already mastered something, I would consider it really easy to perform and I wouldn't remember how hard it was to learn. There are other reasons, but basically, it can't be done unfortunately. Again though, nice idea. I appreciate the help.

@Legendary Pikachu: Nice to hear from you. Dude that AT is too awesome! The possibilities! Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I'll try that out when I get the chance. The end of that vid was so **** funny, I don't wanna spoil it for anyone else.

 

[WindMajor]

Usefulness should be rated by units of Toon Links. For example:

Quickdraw
Usefulness:

Or at least 10/10 should be rated like that, so people wouldn't have to count each Toon Link. Dunno really, just bored.

 

[UncleSam]

@twink- I lol'd
@Legendary Pikachu- amazing, the end of the vid was too good, I know one pikachu main that I frequently play with, I'll teach it to him

Spoiler

he doesn't know smashboads exists >.> too lazy to recruit him tho

@fox- I tried, still looking for some crazy AT that does random things,
what it is I don't know, I'm just screwing around until something happens

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@fox- I tried, still looking for some crazy AT that does random things,
what it is I don't know, I'm just screwing around until something happens

A tip with all that. Usually just screwing around doesn't work for me. Like it has a few times, but what you really need to be doing (it's what works for me) is you need to think of a possible tech or a possible combination of buttons that you have no idea what it'll do or just try things that you've never seen people doing before and I usually stumble upon something. For example (I don't think I actually tested this properly), when I was screwing around with the Dair Shockwave, I thought occurred to me, what happens if I hit the Bomb with the Shockwave? So I tried it a few times by jumping through a platform, Z-dropping it just under the platform then instantly Dairing the top of the platform. Unfortunately, the Bomb was always just out of reach. But that's just an example. You need to actually test something, not just screw around, and that way you're far more likely to find something useful.

 

[UncleSam]

A tip with all that. Usually just screwing around doesn't work for me. Like it has a few times, but what you really need to be doing (it's what works for me) is you need to think of a possible tech or a possible combination of buttons that you have no idea what it'll do or just try things that you've never seen people doing before and I usually stumble upon something. For example (I don't think I actually tested this properly), when I was screwing around with the Dair Shockwave, I thought occurred to me, what happens if I hit the Bomb with the Shockwave? So I tried it a few times by jumping through a platform, Z-dropping it just under the platform then instantly Dairing the top of the platform. Unfortunately, the Bomb was always just out of reach. But that's just an example. You need to actually test something, not just screw around, and that way you're far more likely to find something useful.

I've tried testing

Spoiler

grabbing with a bomb

and the closest I've gotten is putting up a shield while holding it, pressing another attack button does nothing... it's like the game doesn't want me to find it

EDIT: I found the invincicatch by accident, I wasn't trying

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Seriously. Just give up on the grabbing with a bomb thing. It's like the game is against the whole concept and if you did do it somehow, the wii would like melt.

 

[UncleSam]

I know, but I've got nothing else to do

 

[TLMSheikant]

Seriously. Just give up on the grabbing with a bomb thing. It's like the game is against the whole concept and if you did do it somehow, the wii would like melt.

I'd sig this. If I had space.

 

[Sosuke]

It's sad because I said we shouldn't waste time with it on like, the first page but people still wasted time for like, 10 pages or something.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Lol yeah me too. I was like nooo its not possible. But they kept trying. *big facepalm*

 

[Alzi]

Well now they know they cannot grab with a bomb and wasted their time.

Maybe in the next brawl.

 

[Skadorski]

ignore this

 

[UncleSam]

that's already known HOLOpaW

EDIT: you tried

 

[Disfunkshunal]

i actually did grab with a bomb before. i was in practice tho so i couldnt record it or take a pic.

It's sad because I said we shouldn't waste time with it on like, the first page but people still wasted time for like, 10 pages or something.

Lol yeah me too. I was like nooo its not possible. But they kept trying. *big facepalm*

that just means people had faith when you guys didnt

 

[Sosuke]

Actually, it's because we knew the game mechanics wouldn't allow it. lol

Aka
It's not possible

and stuff

 

[UncleSam]

I was bored ok?

 

[Lobos]

I can grab......people in the air with a bomb in hand and my boomerang flying around me...

GET AT ME!

 

[demonictoonlink]

I can make Boomerang go around FD

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

I can grab......people in the air with a bomb in hand and my boomerang flying around me...

GET AT ME!

*Gets at dat nyucka Lobos*

LIES AND SLANDERS! :3

 

[UncleSam]

*Gets at dat nyucka Lobos*

LIES AND SLANDERS! :3

naw I saw it with my own eyes

scouts honor and stuff.

on topic: fox, I'm not sure if this is new or not but I was talking with *(T.R.D.S) and he stumbled across some weird retreating JC throw, while standing. I looked into it, and basically how you do it is while you're holding a bomb you press back and up (diagonal between up and back) and the C-stick forward right after and you slide back while throwing the bomb forward. It caught my eye it seemed pretty useful.
this is done with tap jump on.
EDIT: if you want I can send you a replay

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

That actually doesn't sound that bad. So it's jumping backwards and cancelling the jump with a throw. I presume this could also be done without tap jump off by simply jumping Backwards normally. The only thing I'd be wondering about is how far you slide, but I'll test that myself asap and get back to you.

Edit: Ok, I tried it with and without Tap Jump on and I can see what you mean, but it's not what you think. It's just a normal JC throw, only it's done really quickly. If you have a closer look, you'll see that Toon will Dash for less then a split second in the opposite direction, then turn around and throw the Bomb back the way he came and slide backwards. He doesn't stay facing the same way. Also with Tap Jump on, I was only able to make Toon JC Throw if I Hit The Joystick slightly more towards the side then slid it up to the diagonal. So it's possible that your friend was simply doing that and didn't realise it.

But if I missed the point or if I've simply failed to re-create it, then by all means tell me and/or send me a video. I still really want this to work, but at the moment, from what I could make out, it appears to be a normal JC Throw done quickly.

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

naw I saw it with my own eyes

scouts honor and stuff.

on topic: fox, I'm not sure if this is new or not but I was talking with *(T.R.D.S) and he stumbled across some weird retreating JC throw, while standing. I looked into it, and basically how you do it is while you're holding a bomb you press back and up (diagonal between up and back) and the C-stick forward right after and you slide back while throwing the bomb forward. It caught my eye it seemed pretty useful.
this is done with tap jump on.
EDIT: if you want I can send you a replay

I would love to see this. You should upload this. :3

 

[UncleSam]

I would love to see this. You should upload this. :3

it's awesomeness was too awesome to be recorded, the replay kept freezing.
it's just that awesome

Spoiler

lol you think I'm serious?

 

[WindMajor]

Fox, in the title of the thread, Combos doesn't need an apostrophe. Just saying.

 

[Weruop]

right b4 edgehogging mario,marth,link,samus,peach, etc
do u guys ever drop a bomb on the edge before grabbing it?
if i know they will land on the stage after i edgehog, then i go ahead and drop a bomb on the edge so they hit it at the end of thier upb, it usually leads to an easy upair or nair

 

[Sosuke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeblZ9Tt6IA&feature=channel_page

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@TWiNK: XD thanks. I'll fix it in a sec. I've been trying to keep the whole thread as grammatically correct as possible (other then when I do it on purpose by capitalising certain words mid sentence and so on), but I must've over looked the title.

@Weruop: Were you talking about any of the two techs that Sasuke showed you in the vid? Or were you talking about something similar to Ledge Bombing (read it, it's on the list at the top of the Bomb ledge techs), then they try to recover but they go through you with their Up-B recovery because you're hanging on to the ledge with invincibility frames, then their Up-B hits the Bomb that you placed on the edge and sets it off, making it easy to punish with an Uair or a Nair? Cause if so, I don't normally use it. Maybe I'll try it again sometime against those characters because that sounds awesome. I'll probably end up adding that info to Ledge Bombing at some point as well. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Is this what you were saying?

 

[Weruop]

no its neither of those. i do it by hitting z before i grab the ledge so i set the bomb on the ledge
so yeah, what u said in ur post is what it is. i think its pretty useful

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok cool. Thanks for letting me know. I'll add the info.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I know it's really known...just saying...I think we need to use more Zair to pivot grab. It's awesome.

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

I hate Falco.

 

[Mota]

I haven't done much testing, and this is most likely known.

Anyways my opponent was at about 60% I Z dropped a bomb and instantly Dsmashed when I landed on the ground, halfway through the Dsmash the bomb lands and explodes resulting in a Dsmash that launches the opponent horizontally, exactly the same as if they were under 20% damage.

I remember seeing a video once where a Falco was over 20% & was hit only by the first Dsmash hitbox sending him offstage without a chance to recover

Does this have any potential? Gimps? Early kill move?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Ok, so, Fox, about my bomb thing:

It really is only a Pivoted JCIT. But it's great for mindgames ams stuff. I'll try to stop being lazy and get a vid up on Youtube.

Also, since I don't want to sift through the whole list, is an Edge Cancelled Up-B known? I was messing with doing the falling Up-B, and then I found it. What you do is initiate the FUB when you normally would, but hold B, like when you charge a grounded one(not that anydoes, lol). TL will just run off the ledge and leave one of the little sparkles behind. I think it'd be good for mindgames too, but not by much.

 

[WindMajor]

Yup. It's known. Discovered by Sasukebowser.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

D:

10D:s

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@McDingus: Dude, that is brilliant! Pure genius. I've quickly checked it out and it really works. From my initial testing, I found that the easiest way to do it was to Bomb Pull, SH, Invincibomb (because it drops the bomb slightly behind you which means that there's much less chance of it hitting them before it hits the ground) just before the timing of an Invincibomb drop and then Instantly Hit the C-stick down. Now obviously, there needs to be some more testing done to find the easiest and most effective way to perform this, but I've got to say, this has so much potential it isn't funny. I mean, if we can get this just right, (I dunno, maybe if we fast fall it, it might be easier) it'll mean that we can gimp our opponents at any percent. And can you imagine what this would do to some characters that have bad recoveries. Bloody brilliant.
Needless to say, I'll be doing some more testing on this, and I have no doubt that I'll add this to the list sooner or later.

@TRDS: I think I'll still wait until I see it on youtube before I make up my mind. And yeah, TWiNK has answered your other question (Thanks TWiNK). Just check out the top of the Swordplay section for more info on all of that.



Looks like I'll be on here less for a little while. I need to catch up on assignments and stuff. But I'll still pop in every now and then to check up on things.

 

[Mota]

Awesome, surprised this hasn't been thought here yet.
I'll do some testing later, a little situational I admit but TLs AT's usually are lol

Definitely has potential.

EDIT: Okay from what I've gathered this is pretty **** useful!

The best way to pull this off is to airdodge drop the bomb and move slightly forward before Dsmash, this is to prevent the opponent from being hit by the bomb blast.

With our normal Dsmash at low % the opponent is thrown horizontally, removing the second hit of the Dsmash will practically double the distance thrown.

Unfortunately, whatever % your opponent is on won't change the knockback, they could be on 0% or 999% and the distanced launched would be constant. I was hoping that at higher percents the knockback would increase resulting in a kill, but no...

It works quite well against Falco, Olimar, Snake and Lucario, anyone without an awesome recovery pretty much.

With decent spacing this is pretty easy to pull off in an actual match.
I'll try to record a vid demonstrating, it'll be dodgy quality.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Dude! More testing, and I think I found a really easy way to do this.
How to Perform: Full hop, Instantly Bomb Pull, Instantly Fast Fall, Instantly Invincibomb then Instantly use D-smash.
Yeah I know, there's a lot of instantly's in there, but trust me, I can pull this off consistently now it's that easy. The fast fall gives you more time to get the D-smash in and the Full hop Bomb pull is just for convenience because you have to full hop anyway if you want to fast fall and still invincibomb in time. And obviously the full hop doesn't have to be on the spot, you can move around.

I can see what you mean about it having more knockback then a normal D-smash gimp and I also agree on the set knockback. I honestly don't think it will hinder it too much though.

So I think what we'll do is keep trying to find the best/easiest way to perform this, get a bit of feedback from the rest of the community and then I'll add it. Nice work McDingus!

So did you have any preferences for what you wanted to call it?