The Never Ending List of Toon's AT's and Tricks / The Data Dump / Song of Brainstorms

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

yes fox but i got hit by marth first why the hell does cool stuff i do happen when the hacks are off

It's possible that when Marth hit you, he made you drop the Bomb. In which case I'm not surprised that the Bomb didn't explode. You see, the Bomb is able to go into a state where it won't explode for any reason other then it's 'timer' running out. The easiest way to see this for yourself is to Z-drop a Bomb on the ground then push it off a platform so it lands on stage. When this happens, even though the Bomb is moving, it won't explode if it lands on the ground or an opponent.

The same state of the bomb occours when it is forcibly dropped. The only thing that doesn't add up now, is that you said that you threw the bomb back on stage and that the Bomb actually Bounced across stage. If you had of said, you dropped the Bomb, then I would have known what happened straight away. So maybe this theory is wrong.

In which case, which Stage where you on when this happened? Which side of the stage where you knocked off? At what angle where you launched? And where abouts did the Bomb land? It is possible that the stage might have something to do with the strange reaction of the Bomb.

I could see Hyro (Hyrulian Royalty) using it, seeing as he is beast for projectile walls and such. He could make it happen.

Why don't you ask him? As for me, I'm sorry, but I still see this as being too situational. Just like Nehemiah said, the Bomb takes too long to explode. Yes I know there are things that you can do while still holding a Bomb, but when you think about it, you're simply much better off just throwing the Bomb. And if you want the exact same effects as this Bomb tackle thing, then we can simply ibomb and we will get the same results much quicker. That is, Invincibility frames, explosion and possibility of following up. In fact, the ibomb is still better because it has less lag and you can cancel the airdodge with a Zair in case you miss or as a combo starter.

Please don't take this personally and keep trying. You'll find something sooner or later.

And for the record, I've found tones of useless stuff you can do with the Bomb. For example, Pull out a Bomb, Instantly Hold your shield button, Roll once at any time then continue to hold shield until your shield breaks. So what happens? The timed explosion will go off as soon as you start falling back down from your shield break and will free you from the insane lag. So why did I tell you this? Well, I could argue that this could be done as soon as your opponent losses a stock which will give you just enough time to complete it by the time they come back. They will laugh at you then wait to punish you and then, surprise, you hit them or something. You see? I mean sure it might work the first time, but it's useless the second time around. So I spose I'm just saying, the roll thing might work the first time, but I doubt that your opponent would fall for it again and then he could simply punish Toon's slow roll.

I hope you understand now.

(Let it be known that I in no way recommend using that shield breaker thing. Unless it's just for the lols)

 

[Bomber7]

I'll find something eventually. =/

It's just really hard because bombing tricks for me are on the spot usually and it's not like they are repeated over and over again.

I'll keep trying.

 

[Xx HanZo xX]

wow....this helped out....ALOT!!!! xD im still lost on the SHFF though...still cant get it...but tyvm guys i believe my toon link will grow more!

 

[Jash]

Not to sound like a spoil loser but i demand you change the name to the BBQ, if i invented something like that i want it to sound cooler then that. The name is officially called RQS (Reverse Quick Shot) because its cooler and is more catchy then BBQ, sounds like imma bout to eat and shiz.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yeah no problem Jash! Thanks for letting me know. I'll fix it now.

Edit: All fixed. I think I got it all, I fixed the one in the Index, the Arrow section and the Mixups section. There may be a reference to it in the white writing of another tech that I may have missed. If I ever find something like it, I'll fix it.

 

[Sosuke]

"ctrl + f" BBQ

replace with RQS

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Thanks Sasuke. I was right, there was one more reference to the BBQ, it was in the SHFF Quickdraw.
I wish I had of known about that shortcut a while ago. It would've made life much easier XD. Oh well.

 

[Mota]

Have to agree that RQS sounds alot more pro, but BBQ just has that intial wtf-lulz factor.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yep, there goes all our BBQ vs Steak puns when we're talking matchups with the Sonic's XD.

 

[ninjablah]

this post is what i call beast i mean i especially loved the arrows part of it

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

SHDAD is relatively situational. It all depends on where your opponent is when you do it. If they are within the blast radius but not too close so the Bomb blows up in your face, then it is awesome. Otherwise, not so much, just flashy.
Man I envy anyone who can pull off the IZAC consistently. I will be the first to admit that I still can't. I really need to just sit down one day and learn it. Good luck with it.
I'm glad it helped. I appreciate your feedback.
Yeah I've already said what I think about the SHDAD. It's funny that you think so little of it when you're the one who discovered it XD.
But anyway.

I've gotten iZac down enough to use it in battle. It keeps people at bay when they are expecting you to get rid of your bomb as soon as you pull it you. It somewhat useful in that dreaded TL/Marth matchup.

Also, does anyone who can SHDAD use a different control scheme? If so, care to share what it is?

 

[demonictoonlink]

Nah. I can do it consistently with the same scheme. If you were going to change your scheme, I would not recommend doing it for this. Seriously it sucks...

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Good news everyone! I've Updated and we have two new techs!
The Reverse SAF and my favourite The Reverse SAFC. These can be found near the top of the Swordplay section in the Up-B techs.

On top of this, I have added very useful Notes to Slope Bombing, SAF and SAFC.

Hope you enjoy! Tell me what you think.

 

[Thebest1pj]

It's possible that when Marth hit you, he made you drop the Bomb. In which case I'm not surprised that the Bomb didn't explode. You see, the Bomb is able to go into a state where it won't explode for any reason other then it's 'timer' running out. The easiest way to see this for yourself is to Z-drop a Bomb on the ground then push it off a platform so it lands on stage. When this happens, even though the Bomb is moving, it won't explode if it lands on the ground or an opponent.

The same state of the bomb occours when it is forcibly dropped. The only thing that doesn't add up now, is that you said that you threw the bomb back on stage and that the Bomb actually Bounced across stage. If you had of said, you dropped the Bomb, then I would have known what happened straight away. So maybe this theory is wrong.

In which case, which Stage where you on when this happened? Which side of the stage where you knocked off? At what angle where you launched? And where abouts did the Bomb land? It is possible that the stage might have something to do with the strange reaction of the Bomb.


Why don't you ask him? As for me, I'm sorry, but I still see this as being too situational. Just like Nehemiah said, the Bomb takes too long to explode. Yes I know there are things that you can do while still holding a Bomb, but when you think about it, you're simply much better off just throwing the Bomb. And if you want the exact same effects as this Bomb tackle thing, then we can simply ibomb and we will get the same results much quicker. That is, Invincibility frames, explosion and possibility of following up. In fact, the ibomb is still better because it has less lag and you can cancel the airdodge with a Zair in case you miss or as a combo starter.

Please don't take this personally and keep trying. You'll find something sooner or later.

And for the record, I've found tones of useless stuff you can do with the Bomb. For example, Pull out a Bomb, Instantly Hold your shield button, Roll once at any time then continue to hold shield until your shield breaks. So what happens? The timed explosion will go off as soon as you start falling back down from your shield break and will free you from the insane lag. So why did I tell you this? Well, I could argue that this could be done as soon as your opponent losses a stock which will give you just enough time to complete it by the time they come back. They will laugh at you then wait to punish you and then, surprise, you hit them or something. You see? I mean sure it might work the first time, but it's useless the second time around. So I spose I'm just saying, the roll thing might work the first time, but I doubt that your opponent would fall for it again and then he could simply punish Toon's slow roll.

I hope you understand now.

(Let it be known that I in no way recommend using that shield breaker thing. Unless it's just for the lols)

battlefield hit straight to the left bomb landed on edge hopped and blew up sorry for the late response i dont have the best memory

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok, Shadow, these are the posts, you've given me so far. I've deleted anything that doesn't concern this. (Just to make it easier for me)

i also got hit off the ledge of bf threw a bomb and it hit the ground and bounced across the stage

yes fox but i got hit by marth first

battlefield hit straight to the left bomb landed on edge hopped and blew up

Ok from this, I gather that you were on BF, you got hit by a Marth and got launched to the left, at some point you threw the Bomb, the Bomb landed near the edge, Bounced once then exploded.

If you don't have a vid of this, then I'll need more information to imagine exactly what happened and then try to re-create it.
I need to know;
At what point you threw the Bomb, was it as soon as you could, or later on when you where drifting back towards stage? Where you even off stage when you threw the Bomb?
How far did the Bomb have to travel? Did it fall a long way, or where you very close to the ground?
How did you throw it? Was it a smashed, tilted, or Z-dropped? In what direction was it thrown?
How did it bounce? Was it a skim or did it bounce up slightly higher then Marth? In what direction did it bounce?
Where was Marth when the Bomb bounced? Did he shield the Bomb (please don't tell me it's as simple as that) or attack it in any way?

Just anything and everything you can remember.
I need details if you want me to help.



In other news. Has anyone checked out the update yet? If so, is it alright? Did you want anything changed? (Too many questions...)

 

[UncleSam]

SAF is so much easier to do now, yes the update is good...
also I've been screwing around with something lately trying to find good uses for this, and I found one
I don't have a name so call it whatever you want if you like it.
anyway story is I keep screwing up on the SHDB L+A+control stick is what got me because I always forget to use the control stick and I figured out that you will re-grab the bomb and do an invincibomb. at first I thought it was pointless but I noticed a few things:
)this resets the bombs momentum to a normal Z-drop
)you can move while doing this
I started screwing around with it and I figured out that if you Z-drop a bomb on any fall-through platform and do this the bomb ends up under the platform.
mindgames?

I have no video now, but it's really easy to do. Just try it out plox

oh and you can BCAT when falling though a platform(just figured this out right b4 I posted)

 

[CaliburChamp]

There's a technique I do that I don't see on this list, its called the RAR Z-air, it's especially useful against Falco, Wolf, etc. I like to do reverse short/long jump to Air dodge (SHAD) until my character is behind the opponent, and then use Z-air. Reverse hookshot would be a better name for it.

 

[UncleSam]

that's not on the list? oh wow it isn't. I swear I talked about this with someone on the old Invincibomb thread
you can set it up by RAR>invincibomb>Zair
and then follow up with an attack or grab

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Hey Fox. Well I made a combo a while ago, it isn't a real combo but I was justg wondering if you could put it on your combo section plz?

 

[CaliburChamp]

that's not on the list? oh wow it isn't. I swear I talked about this with someone on the old Invincibomb thread
you can set it up by RAR>invincibomb>Zair
and then follow up with an attack or grab

I posted that info along with the I-bomb info all in the same thread. I-bombing took all the spotlight in that thread, and RAR Z-air was sort of disregarded. And yes you can use a combo like that, although it's hard if your opponent is not staying in one place.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@UncleSam: First of all, thanks heaps for the feedback! I was wondering if anyone noticed...
Concerning the Invincibomb thing. Yeah you're the second person who has mentioned catching the Bomb with the Invincibomb. So I may as well add the info about it in the Note of the Invincibomb. I don't think it needs it's own AT though, seeing as it essentially the same thing as the Invincibomb, but like I said, I'll add the info. So thanks for leting me know! Edit: read the edit at the bottom.
Concerning the BCAT thing. Do you mean you drop through the platform then do a BCAT quickdraw when you land? If you mean this, then I spose I could add that info into the BCAT, it could be helpfull. If you don't mean that then could you please explain further?

@CaliburChamp: You know, I was actually going to add that when I was going through the old threads looking for forgotten AT's, but it must have slipped my mind. Thanks for letting me know. I'll go and find your thread, do some testing of my own and then I'll write it up asap. Cheers!

@A~Kid: (Just quickly, what did you want me to call you? XD)
Concerning the possible combo: Well you've come to the right place. Just let me know what the combo is and I'll look into it, and if it's any good, I'll add it!


Right, I'm off to do some quick testing of the Invincibomb thing and the Reverse Hookshot thing.

Edit: OMG! UncleSam! I think you're on to something! Now I understand what you meant when you said you can make it go under the platform! That is so cool! You know what, stuff it, I'll make it a new tech. The Invincibomb Catch or The Invincicatch or something. This is really useful on levels that have plaforms. Like, I stood under the platform, threw the Bomb up, SH, caught it with the Invincibomb and it went through the platform. I feel we've barely scratched the surface as well.

Edit 2: It's updated! @UncleSam and CaliburChamp, please let me know if you want anything changed/edited/added and I'll be happy to fix it for you.

 

[UncleSam]

yeah That's what I thought at first, it being like the invincibomb but I also discovered this, any projectiles thrown (back) at you will safely be dropped without wasting time this works on all thrown projectiles (I think even ROB's Gyro I'm testing it now) if ppl catch our bombs and throw them back at us this is safer than shielding/jumping over it.
(oh and it's catching and instantly dropping it)

oh and yes you fall through the platform and reverse quickdraw (the timing is kind of odd though)
EDIT:@caliburchamp-yeah I know i just remembered that from the thread, just sayin
EDIT2: fox it's much easier to just Z-drop it on the platform, than throwing it(throwing works too)

 

[CaliburChamp]

Fox: With the reverse hook shot you can also full hop it, as well as short hop, however in your description you said short hop, but you can use it from a full hop too. Just using it with only short hopping limits it's usefulness. That's the only thing I spotted that needs fixing.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@UncleSam: Cool, well I've added the Invincicatch. I'll quickly add a bit more info to it along the lines of what you just posted. I'll also add into the Note of the BCAT that it can be done it that platform situation as well.
Also, throwing the Bomb up then catching it with the Invincicatch when the bomb's on it's way down to make the Bomb go through the platform looks so much cooler XD. Harder to pull off, but worth it.

@CaliburChamp: Sure thing man. I'll add that it can be either full hopped or short hopped.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

@A~Kid: (Just quickly, what did you want me to call you? XD)
Concerning the possible combo: Well you've come to the right place. Just let me know what the combo is and I'll look into it, and if it's any good, I'll add it!

Well its SUPER hard to do, (only done it twice, but if you can master it, its the best tech EVER! >=))
Bomb throw down to footstool to Dair spike
When you throw the bomb down then DI left or right and then footstool them and do the Dair spike. Its a way I like to say OWNED BEEEEYOOOOOTCH!!!!!

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Well you didn't specify a name, so I'll call you A Kid or just Kid for now.
About the combo, I'll give it a chance. This could potentially be a decent way to kill people if they get blasted off stage, and if it's used onstage it could be used as a damage racker if you fastfall the pogo and land without lag then follow up.
What percentage have you found it works best at?

 

[Sosuke]

That's not really new. =/

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Well you didn't specify a name, so I'll call you A Kid or just Kid for now.
About the combo, I'll give it a chance. This could potentially be a decent way to kill people if they get blasted off stage, and if it's used onstage it could be used as a damage racker if you fastfall the pogo and land without lag then follow up.
What percentage have you found it works best at?

Around 40 - 50 percent works best, not really useful, but JUST like the bomb spike, if you can land it, it looks good, and you can own your opponents. XD Just call it the A~Kid combo.

@sasukebowser: I've NEVER seen anyone mention it or use it or something like that and I did it twice and I decided it will be my combo, like Santi's 3:10

 

[Sosuke]

If they DI, then you don't know which way they're going to go. You can get lucky and predict it, but even then it's going to be really hard to:
1) actually TIME the footstool
2) react fast enough when getting the footstool to Dair safely



It's been discussed before, but its just not likely of happening.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

If they DI, then you don't know which way they're going to go. You can get lucky and predict it, but even then it's going to be really hard to:
1) actually TIME the footstool
2) react fast enough when getting the footstool to Dair safely



It's been discussed before, but its just not likely of happening.

Its not meant to be useful, its mean to be epic, like the 3:10 or the bomb spike, but again I've never seen anyone discuss it or do it. And about the footstool just get a lucky guess where they will SDI if they SDI where you predicted then time the footstool and immeadiately react with a Dair, I've done it twice. Give it a chance.

 

[Corpsecreate]

This is an excellent and awesome guide you've made here. A compilation of all Toon Link Advanced Techniques is a very nice thing to have especially for those that are only just starting to play him. Although I do think theres a small room for improvement in presentation, the constant 'white' colour for the body of the text can get confusing. This is just a suggestion but maybe change it to something like this:

Current

Full Hop Double Arrow (FHDA)
How to Perform: Full Hop through or onto a platform, Hit B, Quickdraw (all done quickly)
Effect: Toon will Full Hop, Shoot an Arrow, land on the platform and quickdraw.
Note: This is very similar to the SHDA and yet it can be more useful in some situations. Now picture Battle Field for a second, you can do the FHDA by standing underneath one of the side platforms or you can do it by jumping from one of the side platforms onto the middle platform. On some stages the FHDA can only be done the second way. What I really like about this move is that it's just as fast as the SHDA because you don't have to fall back down and it shoots the two arrows almost in the same spot, one after the other.
Stages: All except Final Destination, Bridge of Eldin, Mario Bros and Shadow Moses Island.
Credit: TLMSheikant

Change to:

Full Hop Double Arrow (FHDA)
How to Perform: Full Hop through or onto a platform, Hit B, Quickdraw (all done quickly)
Effect: Toon will Full Hop, Shoot an Arrow, land on the platform and quickdraw.
Note: This is very similar to the SHDA and yet it can be more useful in some situations. Now picture Battle Field for a second, you can do the FHDA by standing underneath one of the side platforms or you can do it by jumping from one of the side platforms onto the middle platform. On some stages the FHDA can only be done the second way. What I really like about this move is that it's just as fast as the SHDA because you don't have to fall back down and it shoots the two arrows almost in the same spot, one after the other.
Stages: All except Final Destination, Bridge of Eldin, Mario Bros and Shadow Moses Island.
Credit: TLMSheikant

Also I just noticed, under "Retreating SHDA" I have not been credited I first showed this AT here.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@Corpsecreate: First of all, thank you so much for claiming credit! Seriously! I mean I can't know everything or exactly who found what, and this is exactly what I've been asking for. So in a sec, I will add your credit and the vid. (Just quickly, who gets credit for the vid? For now I'll add it as you, and if it belongs to someone else then please let me know.) Ok, moving on.

That is a great idea to highlight them like that. I'm loving the idea, just not the colour XD. But still, nice idea. I'll try some more subtle colours and try decide what works best. It can't be something that's already been used, and it can't be too.... out there? I'll have a look.
Cheers mate!


@A Kid: Now I tested out your combo, I pulled it off easy in training and it was cool as, so I can see why you like it. However, Sasuke is right as always. It is very hard to pull off in a real match. Santi's 3:10 combo is the only one on the list of combo's (I think) that could be called situational or too hard to actually pull off in a real match, but I let that in because, well it's Santi and he's awesome. But yeah, I'll try it again a few times in a few more matches and make my judgement from that. As you said, if I was going to add it, it would be there as one of those epic things that rarely happen. But for now, I don't think I should add it.
No matter, thanks heaps for trying to help out and I hope this doesn't put you off letting me know if you think you've found anything.

 

[Corpsecreate]

So in a sec, I will add your credit and the vid. (Just quickly, who gets credit for the vid? For now I'll add it as you, and if it belongs to someone else then please let me know.)

It was my video also yes

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok all done, kinda.
I added the vid and the credit and all, but I could not get the colours to work. So I'll try again some other time or try something different and if all else fails, at least I tried.
Thanks again Corpescreate.

 

[Corpsecreate]

It shouldnt be too hard. Just highlight the "How to perform" and so on and then click the colour that you want it to change to.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yeah I know how to change it XD, it's just the colours didn't match and stuff or didn't look right. It didn't help that there is such a poor selection either.

 

[Corpsecreate]

Any colour other than pure white looks better imo

 

[Lobos]

Its not meant to be useful, its mean to be epic, like the 3:10 or the bomb spike, but again I've never seen anyone discuss it or do it. And about the footstool just get a lucky guess where they will SDI if they SDI where you predicted then time the footstool and immeadiately react with a Dair, I've done it twice. Give it a chance.

It's been discussed, in the beginning but people don't use it since footstooling takes alot of practice/timing to get down. I forget who came up with it but I remember it being discussed in one of the original guides.

I like to bair people's shields and footstool to dair very unnecessary, risky, unconventional but funny.

 

[WindMajor]

Yeah I know how to change it XD, it's just the colours didn't match and stuff or didn't look right. It didn't help that there is such a poor selection either.

You could use a hexadecimal color chart to get more colors.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Thanks heaps Twink! I don't have much time now but I'll definitely try that. Then hopefully when I get enough time I'll go through and fix all the colours. (Maybe this weekend, but no promises.)