The Myth of the Elitist Competitives

[psyniac_123]

Another myth... I once heard that "Elitists" eat BABIES. Is that true?

 

[yoshi_fan]

Just thought I'd point out that, as stated earlier in the topic, Scrub = People who complain about adv. techs. Now, excuse me if I'm mistaken, but I joined Smash Boards(lurked for some time longer) right before all the "newbies" as you'd like to call them flooded in, and most of them meet the "Scrub" criteria, because they just read Encyclopedia Dramatica(ED) and say "Hey, this is completely true!", or listen to someone preach what ED said.

Scrubs isn't a permanent condition, and its easily reversable. Its not elitest, its just what it is. Calling people who denounce Adv. Techs as not being useful to the game, and refusing to see reason, newbies, is not fair to those just starting out in the smash scene, who are actively learning and understanding everything they can.

Does it have a negative connotation? Of course it does. No one SHOULD be a scrub. Its a close minded loop, which does nothing to make you look better, and can only stand to embarrass you at some point by saying something stupid like "Jigglypuff and Ice Climbers are worthless characters and pieces of crap."

Just to make an example of the above and commonly found Casual quote, its the Newbies who, when told of WOPs and Wobbling, Rising Pound and Desyncing, they decide to learn, because they KNOW it'll make them better.
Scrubs say, "No, Jigglypuff and IC suck, and so do Adv. Techs. Its just cheating. I can be better than most people without them."

-DD

One can be what they want to be, and anything is better or worse than others (except being idiot).

Scrub is the "competitive" player who don't play to win. for example, i played a lot ssb64 online, but i didn't camp vs kirby players... so i got pwned vs them. Then, I started camping and finallly beat them. I was a scrub, but not now.

Scrub is the one who don't do all the things for win, NOT the one who complains vs adv. techs.

Anyway, I think is idiot to search for adv. techs (A.K.A. glitches) in the game like the life is going to finish now. Please, let the metagame advance naturally, don't FORCE things. I think is normal to newbies to complain to that. You are forcing the glitches out of the game.

Like I said, whose who complain are or casuals or idiots (or scrubs casuals). If you are going to fight vs a casual, why don't stop doing adv. techs for a bit? One can be cometitive in casual/scrub form, just don't do these and you two will have fun.

Is like i said, someone who don't want to have fun (competitive/casual form) and is going ONLY for winning and being superior, is being elitist. When I play a friend of mine, i don't play at my maximun potential because i **** him (more, i never play yoshi vs him because it gets 3 stocked or so, i play with other chars and still I manage to win but we two have fun and not only I).

I don't know if you see my point. But saying "all brawl boards is filled with scrubs" is elitist.

And again, you see me, i'm not scrub. More said, you have to see spain, where almost ALL the pros are ****ing elitist ****...

One more thing, you are looking down the casual mode of play. If that isn't being a elitist, i don't know what it is...

The 4 spanish elitist smashers: (I had a 5, but you see, they banned me from their forums because i wasn't a competitive-gore and a elitist like them... they are so elitist that even they argue between them xD)

K-12
Han Dahean
Iced of tundra
The one who was posted earlier
(fifth) someone from barcelona who flamed me because i say wobble was cheap and then he banned me from his msn...

@Yuna, go die please, you are the most elitist of all. Like they sayed before, you even doesn't give arguments for your saying.

I say Adv. techs are BAD, adn they are for the game, the NORMAL game. IS SO DIFICULT TO DIFERENCE TWO GAMES? ****, thats the reason of all that elitis jerk. if you were more mature, and diferenced them, this won't be happening ****.

Yeah, i hate all those glitches, because the game wasn't mean to be played like that, but i hate also the way casuals go: i mean, some items and scenarios are just so unfair that's imposible to play. So i play competitive and use techs.

Remember: scrub is the one who is competitive but DON'T use techs (or complains vs them), and i NEVER complained vs a tech gore (and i know many inseville who, thank god, aren't elitist). I use them because i play competitively, but you are forcing to make me a scrub because i defend the other style of play.

Again, if that not being a elitist, tell me what is.

And yuna, again, please go die.

The only poster who i saw explaining to the people how it works the competitive tourneys respetably was a while ago. And it never repeated. it was a awesome post, and respetable too. That wasn't elitist. That was good.

And i say one more thing. All the pople who is elitist HATE losing. They only wants to win over all people. For them, the challengue doesn't matter. I say that's the diference between elitist competitive players and competitive players.

And that's what i HATE.

The greatness of the competitive playing is the challengue, not the "win". If you are playing only for win, you aren't only elitist, you are destroying the game' soul.

And please Yuna, before you call me stupid, post arguments, or go die. In the list of good moderators, you are now under the last position, you are last last position.

I repeat, if other call me a scrub, he is being elitist. I'm NOT a scrub, i play competitively using ALL for win (where my tech skill goes of course, the only thing i can't master is the ledge recovery when i got spiked, too dificult). But that doesn't mean i CAN't defend the other play as well, as bad as is for you or others.

Edit: Allow only opinions for pros for matters about the game is another elitist thing. All the matters are important, that's like if we erase all the chinese people from international affairs because they are just more retrased technically than the rest of the world... oh, c'mon... Someone said it before, yuna. You ask for opinions from pros, but then when you see the crude reality of not elitist world, you see other opinions and your logic destroys in tiny pieces.

Edit2: Another thing, yeah, i hate those noobs (not casuals or scrubs or potatoes, noobs) who complain because you are more good than them and give idiotic reasons (and this is in both casual competitive world, and even in others games).

I still remember when i played in a manga' salon and a kid complained 5 minutes because I jumped the bomb and let him be hited... *sigh* He sayed that I had to eat the bomb because the game have to be played like that (double sigh). I hate those people also, they don't have arguments.

Finally remember:

TWO WAYS OF PLAYS. BOTH THE SAME IMPORTANT. Learn this and all the elitist jerks will disapear.

ALSO REMEMBER THE TRUE NATURE OF THE GAME IF TO HAVE A CHALLENGUE (competitive) OR HAVE FUN (casual)

And learn to be like Gympy too...

and now i wonder... who was the one who closed my thread of "Tired of elitist jerks"? A lot of people agree with me, and you never let "elitist" pros answer to my oppinion, something i wanted to see a lot.

If someone wants to read what i think more clean and with a better english and simplified, read plasmatore's. Thanks ^^

 

[MookieRah]

Brawl or prefer 64 to melee, and they get flamed for it.

I feel almost as if you are referring to the existing thread going on. If you think we flamed that guy for preferring Brawl and 64 over Melee then you are very much mistaken. Often times in these situations, the flaming is somewhat warranted, due to the reasons for preferring it over Melee would be something along the lines of "competitives ruined melee so I don't like it."

That said, there are still a handful of asshats that are scrubs from our camp that will flame people who prefer smash 64 just out of preference. It should be noted that these people tend to be flamed by other competitive players for flaming a casual player for no reason.

But a lot of people have egos and are just as entitled to their opinion of "I can beat anyone" as you are to "competitive smashers can beat anyone who isn't".

People are entitled to their opinions, however, if their opinion is based in ignorance and arrogance then people will of course set them straight. Simply put, people that think that way are scrubs and idiots, and they seriously need to learn how to be realistic. These people also don't care about who they offend and they are very loud and obnoxious. They are also flamed by other casual players for being dumb.

You're elitist, you just assume that all casuals suck horrendously at the game.

By comparison, they do. When compared to competitive smash play, casual players are not very good. There are few exceptions to this. There is a reason why we are competitive, there is a reason why we place well in tournaments. Does this make us better human beings? No. Does this make it alright to belittle people with less skill? No. Saying otherwise would be ignorant, as it goes against all the information we know about this game. It goes against all of my personal experience, as well as those of other seasoned vets. You guys shouldn't even be upset by this, because you aren't trying to compete, nor should you expect to do well on the competitive circuit when you have never taken part in it.

The problem is that people don't recognize any of this. They assume all the knowledge that the competitive scene has compiled does not amount to anything. People argue against our rules and they complain about them, when they really don't know why the rules are there in the first place. I don't mind debating competitive rules with casual players, but when they attack the status quo with stereotypes and ignorance they only stir up trouble. When we defend our rules they don't actually debate, and when we get upset at them, we get labeled as "elitists."

 

[fr0st2k]

yunas idea of arguing is, "list 5 people." The simplicity of that argument is key to his victory. No matter how many points you make to him, if you dont list 5 people, you lose.

Yoshi ... check spelling and grammar next time please. If youre going to write a huge post like that and spend the time writing it, try and make it as legible as possible.

 

[Paingel]

Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
(Proverbs 26:12)

Like a thornbush in a drunkard's hand is a proverb in the mouth of a fool.
(Proverbs 26:9)

 

[fr0st2k]

By comparison, they do. When compared to competitive smash play, casual players are not very good. There are few exceptions to this. There is a reason why we are competitive, there is a reason why we place well in tournaments. Does this make us better human beings? No. Does this make it alright to belittle people with less skill? No. Saying otherwise would be ignorant, as it goes against all the information we know about this game. It goes against all of my personal experience, as well as those of other seasoned vets. You guys shouldn't even be upset by this, because you aren't trying to compete, nor should you expect to do well on the competitive circuit when you have never taken part in it.

The problem is that people don't recognize any of this. They assume all the knowledge that the competitive scene has compiled does not amount to anything. People argue against our rules and they complain about them, when they really don't know why the rules are there in the first place. I don't mind debating competitive rules with casual players, but when they attack the status quo with stereotypes and ignorance they only stir up trouble. When we defend our rules they don't actually debate, and when we get upset at them, we get labeled as "elitists."

Mookierad, AND Yuna. Just answer this. Can you honestly say to yourself and the other people on this board ... that there aren't people on this board who "act" competitive and then belittle people whom they think are inferior.

You have really never seen this happen? Its happened in this topic already, and i only read about 2 pages of it.

This myth you guys are talking about is a totally different one then what people are believing. When people see Blue, purple, or red text(as the sheep they are) they instantly respect the person (yes, there are a few who dont .. but that probably stems from jealously).

It isnt YOU guys that casuals have problems with. Its the OTHER people. And unfortunately, stereotypes form, and they are **** hard to shake off. Your beef shouldnt be with the casuals, it should be with the "scrubs" The ******** competitive players who just dont get it like you guys do, and who think theyre better JUST because they go to tourneys. You should be talking to them, getting them to learn how stupid they sound, and stop them from giving all competitive players the bad stereotype that casuals now have of them.

Just like there are 2 groups of competitive players ,there are 2 groups of casuals. You have your smart group, and your idiot group.

I should also add. The casual crowd that i am standing with isnt idiot complainers. They arent the ones blurghing about advanced techniques, or the fact that items should be in competitive play (although i STILL stand by the idea of letting smashballs into competitive games). That other crowd of casuals are just complete idiots, and I dont even acknowledge their existence...i have never, and will never.

I suggest you grow up, and do the same. They don't even deserve responses, as they are probably too biased to listen to them. Doing that should really put things in perspective.

goodday

 

[Patsie]

To add flames to the fire:

Mexican and Isai are both terribly elitist.

 

[MookieRah]

Mookierad, AND Yuna. Just answer this. Can you honestly say to yourself and the other people on this board ... that there aren't people on this board who "act" competitive and then belittle people whom they think are inferior.

Of course. I haven't denied their existence. There are just not all that many of them running around, and when they do belittle others you will find competitive players flaming them for doing so as well as casual players. I know they exist, and they are just idiots. Both sides have their fair share of idiots. People need to learn to distinguish between the two.

Mexican and Isai are both terribly elitist.

How is Isai elitist? He's a really good dude, and quite funny too. He doesn't even post much, and when he does it's either very serious or something completely random. What exactly are you basing this off of?

 

[Uchiharakiri]

Like a thornbush in a drunkard's hand is a proverb in the mouth of a fool.
(Proverbs 26:9)

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
(Matthew 23:12)

Since you're the one that started bringing bible quotes to rigorously defend Yuna, being oh so sure that their opinion is the only right one, you might want to practice a few of the quotes themselves and not be such a jerk. The very basis of elitism is saying "I am right in saying this and in doing this and your way of saying and doing this is wrong."(prove me wrong on this one I dare you).

What I'm trying to say is, don't be such a jerk and be a little bit like Mookie, that's why everybody likes him.

 

[Moldy Clay]

This topic poses a question and statement that is ignoring the facts of what the "elitist competitive" is.

Almost none of the 'elitist competitive' players that the members here ***** about are actually high ranking or well-known players.

They are mostly all no-names who spam adv. techs and tell you you are a noob for liking items or playing low tier characters and the Brawl is a horrible game because it isn't Melee.

The 'elitist competitives' are a bunch of people who are probably either really bad and/or talk a lot of **** because it makes them feel better. They are just trolling and have no importance to the smash community, but they are the ones giving competitive players a bad name, because they make it seem like real/competitive players are just like them since they parade around as competitive players, looking down on casuals as an insult (when the ****ing game was created for casuals in the first place, since the N64 game).

So stop with this "myth" crap, just because the people giving you guys a worse name are no-names. They're still there and you know nobody can give you 5 names off the top of their head or have saved instances that they can prove to you. All you did was set a trap so you'd turn out right in the end.

 

[munkus beaver]

This topic poses a question and statement that is ignoring the facts of what the "elitist competitive" is.

Almost none of the 'elitist competitive' players that the members here ***** about are actually high ranking or well-known players.

They are mostly all no-names who spam adv. techs and tell you you are a noob for liking items or playing low tier characters and the Brawl is a horrible game because it isn't Melee.

The 'elitist competitives' are a bunch of people who are probably either really bad and/or talk a lot of **** because it makes them feel better. They are just trolling and have no importance to the smash community, but they are the ones giving competitive players a bad name, because they make it seem like real/competitive players are just like them since they parade around as competitive players, looking down on casuals as an insult (when the ****ing game was created for casuals in the first place, since the N64 game).

So stop with this "myth" crap, just because the people giving you guys a worse name are no-names. They're still there and you know nobody can give you 5 names off the top of their head or have saved instances that they can prove to you. All you did was set a trap so you'd turn out right in the end.

So why are they 'elitist competitives' instead of just plain *****? If a guy was rude to me and happened to be a skydiver, I wouldn't go around saying MAN THOSE SKYDIVERS SURE HAVE ANOTHER THING COMING

 

[Libomasus]

How does this last so long? You know maybe if we didn't assume somebody was an arrogant asshat then we could all agree, or at least learn to cope. If someone gives off an attitude of a loser, then they probably are. Trust your judgment and stop making excuses to call someone elitist.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I don't see why we should suffer through yoshi_fan's posts just because he has a personal vendetta against a few Spanish smashers...

 

[E-Z-MONEY]

Awww!! Nothing I need to reply to in four pages! Oh well.

Yuna! I might have missed it but do you have five verifiable casual players saying that most tournament players are elitist by your definition yet?

 

[RDK]

Another myth... I once heard that "Elitists" eat BABIES. Is that true?

I do enjoy an occasional sauteed child, yes.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Since you're the one that started bringing bible quotes to rigorously defend Yuna, being oh so sure that their opinion is the only right one, you might want to practice a few of the quotes themselves and not be such a jerk. The very basis of elitism is saying "I am right in saying this and in doing this and your way of saying and doing this is wrong."(prove me wrong on this one I dare you).

Its not that your wrong, its that there actually are good and bad ways to go about things and there actually are right and wrong opinions. Take global warming, people still hold the opinion that no, there is no global warming, yet, others hold the opinion that there is, and the big difference between the two parties is that one is backed by mountains of evidence and the other has but fragments. Yet, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear the earth is warming, look at this evidence" an elitist? What about this, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear items negatively effect matches and reward the less talented player, look at this match video" an elitist?

 

[Uchiharakiri]

Its not that your wrong, its that there actually are good and bad ways to go about things and there actually are right and wrong opinions. Take global warming, people still hold the opinion that no, there is no global warming, yet, others hold the opinion that there is, and the big difference between the two parties is that one is backed by mountains of evidence and the other has but fragments. Yet, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear the earth is warming, look at this evidence" an elitist? What about this, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear items negatively effect matches and reward the less talented player, look at this match video" an elitist?

No, I wouldn't call them elitist. But I would say that they are being elitist in their view that "Items negatively effect matches", because there is no right way to play and if two people want to play with items on, then let em have at it, it's all about fun. Which brings me back to the point of humility, there is no right or wrong in playing Smash, but there is wrong when one begins to say it is wrong to play with items on in casual matches, or someone says items on in competitive ones is the only way. Thusly, depending on this argument at the moment, which seems to be of elitism, yes, it is wrong to say "Yuna is completely right in every single corner of their argument, there is no chance they could possibly ever be wrong."

I.e., one may think some of Yuna's opinions about scrubs and the "Myth of Competetive Elitists", and even go so far as to provide viable points in which to say this; which would render that guy's rigorously aggressive defending of Yuna's own with "Yuna is right, PERIOD", at least close to halfway elitist.

 

[E-Z-MONEY]

Its not that your wrong, its that there actually are good and bad ways to go about things and there actually are right and wrong opinions. Take global warming, people still hold the opinion that no, there is no global warming, yet, others hold the opinion that there is, and the big difference between the two parties is that one is backed by mountains of evidence and the other has but fragments. Yet, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear the earth is warming, look at this evidence" an elitist? What about this, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear items negatively effect matches and reward the less talented player, look at this match video" an elitist?

Well honestly I don't mind that it rewards the lesser player but I agree nonetheless. Pros can do whatever they want as long as they stay out of my living room . . . You will stay out of my living room right?

 

[Paingel]

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
(Matthew 23:12)

Since you're the one that started bringing bible quotes to rigorously defend Yuna, being oh so sure that their opinion is the only right one, you might want to practice a few of the quotes themselves and not be such a jerk. The very basis of elitism is saying "I am right in saying this and in doing this and your way of saying and doing this is wrong."(prove me wrong on this one I dare you).

What I'm trying to say is, don't be such a jerk and be a little bit like Mookie, that's why everybody likes him.

That's just it. That's what I meant when I said:

Like a thornbush in a drunkard's hand
is a proverb in the mouth of a fool.
(Proverbs 26: 9)

You're assuming that I'm exalting myself...

Do not exalt yourself in the king's presence,
and do not claim a place among great men;
(Proverbs 25: 6)

..when in actuality I am supporting someone else.

Let another praise you, and not your own mouth;
someone else, and not your own lips.
(Proverbs 27: 2)

And I'm sorry if you think my word are a little harsh... however, I do put these words into practice.

Like snow in summer or rain in harvest,
honor is not fitting for a fool.
(Proverbs 26: 1)

A whip for the horse, a halter for the donkey,
and a rod for the backs of fools!
(Proverbs 26: 3)

But I can see that this is going to be a pointless debate...

If a wise man goes to court with a fool,
the fool rages and scoffs, and there is no peace.
(Proverbs 29: 9)

So I think I'm going to quit while I'm ahead.

The prudent see danger and take refuge,
but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
(Proverbs 27:12)

Maybe it's better if we forget this altogether?

Without wood a fire goes out;
without gossip a quarrel dies down.
(Proverbs 26:20)

But I think that debates like this actually do serve some purpose...

As iron sharpens iron,
so one man sharpens another.
(Proverbs 27:17)

But then one can't be too careful, even when they win...

The crucible for silver and the furnace for gold,
but man is tested by the praise he receives.
(Proverbs 27:21)

Still, though, I think it is better for the community that some players want to have deep knowledge of the game.

When a country is rebellious, it has many rulers,
but a man of understanding and knowledge maintains order.
(Proverbs 28: 2)



Though I may lack Smash, it seems as though I have found a new game to play.

(Yeesh, Yuna. Even when I say you're right, you still find a way in which I'm wrong. Kidding kidding...)

 

[Uchiharakiri]

But I can see that this is going to be a pointless debate...

If a wise man goes to court with a fool,
the fool rages and scoffs, and there is no peace.
(Proverbs 29: 9)

So I think I'm going to quit while I'm ahead.

The prudent see danger and take refuge,
but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
(Proverbs 27:12)

Though I may lack Smash, it seems as though I have found a new game to play.

(Yeesh, Yuna. Even when I say you're right, you still find a way in which I'm wrong. Kidding kidding...)

Oh okay so you're calling me a fool then. You're right, let's you and I forget our own little debate altogether, as I dislike being looked down upon by someone as high and mighty as you.

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
(Matthew 23:12)

Edit: I am not religious at all.

 

[Xengri]

I'm not going to say that there is no such thing as a "Elitist Competitive" because they are there and, I'm pretty sure everyone can agree with me on this.

Thing is, for some reason people are using the word elitist as a umbrella for a variety of other negative adjectives that have nothing to do with the definition of elitist.
The word has been tossed around far more frequently then it should have, making it seem like there’s a lot of elitist competitive when in reality there isn’t.


You can only be elitist in a subject that pertains to opinion.

If someone tells you a fact that you don’t want to hear ,or dislike, that doesn’t make them elitist.

They can be condescending about it and belittle/insult you while they‘re at it.
However, that just makes them a douche, not a elitist.

There’s a fair number of completive players that are douches when stating why their rule set is better for competitive play, I’ll give you that, but, they can’t be considered elitist.
Our rule set is better for competitive play, that’s a fact.




You can hate yuna/ mookie/ Sliq/ whoever, for the way that they argue the facts.
But, you can’t call them elitist. Asshats maybe, but not elitist.


That’s like calling a professional body builder fat because he’s been a jerk to you.

__

I'm liking these Bible quotes. I should try that in my arguments next time. Creative.

 

[shadydentist]

@Uchiharakiri

You're right when you say that there's no right way to play... when you're playing with friends. In a tournament setting, there definitely are better and worse ways to play.

 

[NeoZ]

I personally don't know anyone who after hearing of adv.techs(or watching one of those crazy combo videos) didn't try to learn in order to improve their game, but it's not like I haven't heard of those saying "adv.techs=crap" and people flaming anyone who doesn't use them(though both of this are mostly seen on youtube comments).
Also why would someone complain if their opponent uses a low tier character? I usually struggle to try to beat my brother using M2 (M2 vs Fox mostly) and have fun doing it, I enjoy using M2 as much as I enjoy using Falco and Marth(I 3-stock him most of the time with those), but it's a lot more challenging using M2.
And if someone uses a low tier in a tournament, shouldn't elitists/scrubs be grateful(easier match for them)?
As some people hear have said: They only care about winning.
If this is true then wouldn't scrubs/elitists be contradicting themselves?

 

[MoldinMindz]

Items help out people who suck. That's why I've always been annoyed with mario kart. It'd be awesome if the new mario kart wii had an option to items off, or at least the real stupid ones like lightning and blue shells.

 

[Uchiharakiri]

Proverbs is amazing.



Correct in essense but sometimes wrong in certain contexts (is that the right word?). A tournament has a purpose, and usually that purpose to to expose who the best players are. Assuming the purpose of a tournament is to find out who is better then who, then the setting you use can very much be right or wrong, as one setting will have a higher accuracy in determing the better player than the other. I don't really care how Smash is played outside of tournaments, I've done ****loads of whacky stuff, the other day I did a match with my GF where we were DK/Bowser, Giant Melee, Mushrooms/Pokeballs on very high on PS and it was fun. But, heres the thing, giant Melee mushrooms/pokeballs only is clearly not going to be the best method of determing who the better player is (esp when you consider pokeballs), I don't think its elitist to tell people that if your in a tournament, there are rules, and those rules exist to ensure the best player is the one who wins.

In a tournament, there is a right and wrong way to play, but in a noncompetitive setting it doesn't matter, you should play whatever seems like the most fun.

I agree with you in all of that but that's not quite the argument I was going against, good point on your end regardless. -nod-

 

[Card]

My my my... what have we here.

This is quite the scene. It seems there has been just a lot of misunderstanding from many members part, while at the same time Yuna and MookieRah have been taking the time to carefully explain their disposition on the subject at hand. Personally I'm still confused as to how there are some people who still haven't understood the point Yuna was trying to make since the first post of this thread.

Yuna, although a tad arrogant in the first post, has brought up an extremely valid point in regards to this "myth" about elitist competitives. Everyone here who has been trying to name 5 elitists has seriously missed the big picture. Although I thought it was fairly obvious... I don't think the purpose Yuna made this thread was for people to go out and search the internet for 5 elitists. The point Yuna was trying to make, since the very first post, was that Competitive Elitists simply do not exist. Maybe the method Yuna used to go about explaining his first post may have been a tad faulty and open to misunderstanding, but the steps Yuna has taken throughout the course of this thread in order to explain his argument and 'break' the myth have been flawless.


To Yuna and MookieRah, I agree with both of you wholeheartedly. You've both managed to stay surprisingly calm and collected during all of your rebuttals for other peoples arguments. In addition to that I feel that you are both working towards bettering the community as a whole just with the creation of this thread.

To the rest, you should listen to the words which are coming out of both their fingers. They are speaking the truth, and are being incredibly sincere and honest in trying to explain their positions on the entire situation. Yet as it stands we are 18 pages in and honestly there hasn't been a single counter-argument that has been able to hold it's ground against what is the actual truth of the SmashBoards which they've both been desperately trying to explain to everyone.


After reading and siphoning through all these pages, I've decided to do my own take on the whole "myth" of the competitive elitists and what not. I decided to start my point with a nice, neat little diagram which should clearly explain exactly what I mean to say (not to mention what has already been stated many times throughout the thread) without any misunderstandings.

This diagram here should be an accurate depiction on the subject at hand. This is a depiction of the current groups of people which can be found roaming SmashBoards, as well as pretty much the Internet as a whole (Youtube, Brawl Central, etc...).

As you can see, it can be broken down into 3 distinct categories. Casual Smasher, Competitive Smasher, and Idiot.

Notice how there is no difference between Casual Smasher and Competitive Smasher apart from the color or flavor. Which is exactly how the two groups of people act. Both groups play Smash Bros, but they each play with their own "flavor" of the game. Neither of them play the game wrong, and neither group tries to convince the other group otherwise.

Then we have the 3rd group... the sort of "gray" area of the boards... the Idiots. These are the ones who cause the REAL problem here. They are the ones responsible for the "Myth" that we have been talking about, They are the ones responsible for the indirect hatred which has spawned between the two groups. I tried to think of a nicer name to call them, but quite frankly I don't think there is anything that is more fitting for them. Notice how the Idiot's aren't really their own entity. The Idiots sort of coexists along side both groups of smashers simultaneously, and they sort of spill over onto either side of the community. The irony in this is that neither side of Smasher really accepts these idiots as being part of their group.


As MookieRah said earlier in this post, a true Competitive Smasher would argue against a Competitive Elitist who is belittling a Casual Smasher.
I am sure that other Casuals would agree as well that a true Casual Smasher wouldn't be happy to see another Casual Scrub running around in a Tournament thread made by Competitives, spouting that they are playing the game wrong or they are playing it against the creators wishes.
Competitive Elitists, Casual Scrubs, and any other derogatory Smasher term with which you can come up with all belong to the group of Idiots who seep their way into both communities, and give the wrong ideas to either crowd.


Competitive Elitists DO NOT Exist in the Competitive Smashers scene.
Casual Scrubs DO NOT Exist in the Casual Smashers scene.
They all belong in the gray Idiot Smashers scene, which to be blunt we should just flat-out ignore.

As a community, this is what we should be telling ourselves;
As a Competitive Smasher, don't look down upon Casual Smashers because some Idiots come into your threads and tell you that you are playing the game wrong.
As a Casual Smasher, don't look down upon Competitive Smashers because some Idiots tell you that you all suck at the game because of your lack of advanced techniques or that you play with Items.

Casual and Competitive Smashers should be able to exist alongside each other in harmony (Euk, that sounds so cliché). Just don't get confused with both scenes with all the idiots running around.



Post-EDIT: Ho ho... looks like I rambled on too much.. Oh well, not much I can do
You know it's nice to see how large and dynamic the community has grown. I've been a member since 2001 (it's true! check my profile!) and I remember the days Smash Melee was about to be released were no where NEAR as vibrant and fiery in comparison to some of the threads we have today!

I can't wait to see how both communities evolve in the coming years.

 

[YSM]

I think it comes from the fact that competitive players are, quite simply, leaps and bounds beyond casuals. And that fact will either cause one to take the time to learn, or get frustrated about it. Unfortunately, many seem to choose the latter, acting as if competitives claimed at some point that the ONLY way to play is no items, Spacie vs Marth, FD. That's simply the best way to determine the best player in a one-on-one match; it doesn't mean competitive players will never use low-tier characters or items for fun. That's one major misconception. Another is the theory that, because competitives have a large vocabulary of different terms for advanced techniques, that they must be showing off. But when you think about it, what is easier to say...

"wavedash to get make the opponent bite, follow it to a grab and up throw into an UTilt to Fair, etc" or

"jump and then quickly airdodge towards the ground. Make your opponent think you're going in for the attack, and bait them into using a laggy smash attack. As their attack misses, quickly grab them, throw them upwards, and hit them with an upwards tilt. As they become airborne, jump and then use your forward air attack, etc"

Sure, the latter is easier for casuals to understand, but it takes forever to type out. It's simply not necessary. Which is why the smash jargon is used...to get the point across quickly and easily.


It's our job as casuals to adapt to the competitive mindset if we want to compete...not to expect the competitive community to start using items, low tier characters, and long, drawn out explanations for combos and techniques. If you dont't want to take the time to learn, don't. It's that simple. But don't whine at those who have because they're better than you. And yes, I'm a casual player myself. I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'll certainly learn faster by research rather than calling people tourney***s because they're better than me.

 

[-Linko-]

yunas idea of arguing is, "list 5 people." The simplicity of that argument is key to his victory. No matter how many points you make to him, if you dont list 5 people, you lose.

Yoshi ... check spelling and grammar next time please. If youre going to write a huge post like that and spend the time writing it, try and make it as legible as possible.

Forgive his bad english, he is spanish and education in Spain sucks.

But he has just listed 5 competitive elitist guys (I would argue him that most of the list aren't that bad, but that is another story)

I don't see why we should suffer through yoshi_fan's posts just because he has a personal vendetta against a few Spanish smashers...

Because this is a message board and everybody should give his opinion. If you don't like that, then the "Ignore User" option is your friend

But I agree he has something against most competitive spanish smashers. They aren't that bad. It's true that Bugball is the trollest guy I've ever seen, and is an elitist competitive spanish smasher; but not all of them are so stupid and trollitic.

Ps: It's funny how both spanish guys on this board have the same image on our sigs, isn't it?

 

[asdfasdfaw]

My my my... what have we here.

This is quite the scene. It seems there has been just a lot of misunderstanding from many members part, while at the same time Yuna and MookieRah have been taking the time to carefully explain their disposition on the subject at hand. Personally I'm still confused as to how there are some people who still haven't understood the point Yuna was trying to make since the first post of this thread.

Yuna, although a tad arrogant in the first post, has brought up an extremely valid point in regards to this "myth" about elitist competitives. Everyone here who has been trying to name 5 elitists has seriously missed the big picture. Although I thought it was fairly obvious... I don't think the purpose Yuna made this thread was for people to go out and search the internet for 5 elitists. The point Yuna was trying to make, since the very first post, was that Competitive Elitists simply do not exist. Maybe the method Yuna used to go about explaining his first post may have been a tad faulty and open to misunderstanding, but the steps Yuna has taken throughout the course of this thread in order to explain his argument and 'break' the myth have been flawless.


To Yuna and MookieRah, I agree with both of you wholeheartedly. You've both managed to stay surprisingly calm and collected during all of your rebuttals for other peoples arguments. In addition to that I feel that you are both working towards bettering the community as a whole just with the creation of this thread.

To the rest, you should listen to the words which are coming out of both their fingers. They are speaking the truth, and are being incredibly sincere and honest in trying to explain their positions on the entire situation. Yet as it stands we are 18 pages in and honestly there hasn't been a single counter-argument that has been able to hold it's ground against what is the actual truth of the SmashBoards which they've both been desperately trying to explain to everyone.


After reading and siphoning through all these pages, I've decided to do my own take on the whole "myth" of the competitive elitists and what not. I decided to start my point with a nice, neat little diagram which should clearly explain exactly what I mean to say (not to mention what has already been stated many times throughout the thread) without any misunderstandings.

This diagram here should be an accurate depiction on the subject at hand. This is a depiction of the current groups of people which can be found roaming SmashBoards, as well as pretty much the Internet as a whole (Youtube, Brawl Central, etc...).

As you can see, it can be broken down into 3 distinct categories. Casual Smasher, Competitive Smasher, and Idiot.

Notice how there is no difference between Casual Smasher and Competitive Smasher apart from the color or flavor. Which is exactly how the two groups of people act. Both groups play Smash Bros, but they each play with their own "flavor" of the game. Neither of them play the game wrong, and neither group tries to convince the other group otherwise.

Then we have the 3rd group... the sort of "gray" area of the boards... the Idiots. These are the ones who cause the REAL problem here. They are the ones responsible for the "Myth" that we have been talking about, They are the ones responsible for the indirect hatred which has spawned between the two groups. I tried to think of a nicer name to call them, but quite frankly I don't think there is anything that is more fitting for them. Notice how the Idiot's aren't really their own entity. The Idiots sort of coexists along side both groups of smashers simultaneously, and they sort of spill over onto either side of the community. The irony in this is that neither side of Smasher really accepts these idiots as being part of their group.


As MookieRah said earlier in this post, a true Competitive Smasher would argue against a Competitive Elitist who is belittling a Casual Smasher.
I am sure that other Casuals would agree as well that a true Casual Smasher wouldn't be happy to see another Casual Scrub running around in a Tournament thread made by Competitives, spouting that they are playing the game wrong or they are playing it against the creators wishes.
Competitive Elitists, Casual Scrubs, and any other derogatory Smasher term with which you can come up with all belong to the group of Idiots who seep their way into both communities, and give the wrong ideas to either crowd.


Competitive Elitists DO NOT Exist in the Competitive Smashers scene.
Casual Scrubs DO NOT Exist in the Casual Smashers scene.
They all belong in the gray Idiot Smashers scene, which to be blunt we should just flat-out ignore.

As a community, this is what we should be telling ourselves;
As a Competitive Smasher, don't look down upon Casual Smashers because some Idiots come into your threads and tell you that you are playing the game wrong.
As a Casual Smasher, don't look down upon Competitive Smashers because some Idiots tell you that you all suck at the game because of your lack of advanced techniques or that you play with Items.

Casual and Competitive Smashers should be able to exist alongside each other in harmony (Euk, that sounds so cliché). Just don't get confused with both scenes with all the idiots running around.



Post-EDIT: Ho ho... looks like I rambled on too much.. Oh well, not much I can do
You know it's nice to see how large and dynamic the community has grown. I've been a member since 2001 (it's true! check my profile!) and I remember the days Smash Melee was about to be released were no where NEAR as vibrant and fiery in comparison to some of the threads we have today!

I can't wait to see how both communities evolve in the coming years.

Woah. I'm sorry. Who are you? Yuna had you bent over so far I thought it was him.

 

[SeriousWB]

Easy, go to the thread "So how do casuals and competitives interact".

Every post that states along the lines of "competitive players have more fun" are elitists. Just as every that states "casuals have more fun" are idiots in the same way.

I'm sorry but the OP post gives off the same impression. Anyone that states "Oh of course they started it, and they are the only ones in the wrong" is deluded.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Easy, go to the thread "So how do casuals and competitives interact".

Every post that states along the lines of "competitive players have more fun" are elitists. Just as every that states "casuals have more fun" are idiots in the same way.

I'm sorry but the OP post gives off the same impression. Anyone that states "Oh of course they started it, and they are the only ones in the wrong" is deluded.

Well, one thing is for sure. Competitive players never have less fun than casuals. You know why? Because every competitive player was once casual, and they liked competitive more than casual, so they stuck with it.

Honestly, I have never seen a "we have more fun" post. It's always just "we have more fun this way, and what is fun for you may not be fun for me." Sometimes it gets misinterpreted though.

Also, Yuna never said that there are absolutely no competitive elitists; just that they are far fewer than scrubs/ casual elitists.

 

[Card]

Woah. I'm sorry. Who are you? Yuna had you bent over so far I thought it was him.

Look everyone, here's a perfect example of exactly what I was talking about.

See the obvious thought right now would be to think that this "asdfasdfaw" guy is actually a Casual Smasher who is against the Competitive Scene. This is actually not the case. This guy is actually part of the Idiot group (and seriously, by his unbelievably immature and stupid rebuttal, can you really disagree?) that I was talking about in my post.

What do ya know, I didn't even have to look for an example to back up my argument. It came right to me instead!

 

[SeriousWB]

Honestly, I have never seen a "we have more fun" post. It's always just "we have more fun this way, and what is fun for you may not be fun for me." Sometimes it gets misinterpreted though.

Also, Yuna never said that there are absolutely no competitive elitists; just that they are far fewer than scrubs/ casual elitists.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=147427

"Also, competitive players have much more fun than "casual" players because "casuals" bind themselves to scrubby rules."

"I think Competitive players enjoy the game overall more so than casual players. Why? Because you never hear them complaining about how the casual players play >.>."

"It's a division in maturity."

"Scrub rules fall more under the idea of "If something is good, i won't use it"

There you go.

"True Meaning of a Scrub: Someone who complains about things being 'cheap'."

This would be great, but it is thrown around at people that play casually just as much as "exploiter" is at people that play competitively.

And there are less competitive elitists than casual elitists because there are less competitive players!

 

[yoshi_fan]

Look everyone, here's a perfect example of exactly what I was talking about.

See the obvious thought right now would be to think that this "asdfasdfaw" guy is actually a Casual Smasher who is against the Competitive Scene. This is actually not the case. This guy is actually part of the Idiot group (and seriously, by his unbelievably immature and stupid rebuttal, can you really disagree?) that I was talking about in my post.

What do ya know, I didn't even have to look for an example to back up my argument. It came right to me instead!

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=147427

"Also, competitive players have much more fun than "casual" players because "casuals" bind themselves to scrubby rules."

"I think Competitive players enjoy the game overall more so than casual players. Why? Because you never hear them complaining about how the casual players play >.>."

"It's a division in maturity."

"Scrub rules fall more under the idea of "If something is good, i won't use it"

There you go.

"True Meaning of a Scrub: Someone who complains about things being 'cheap'."

This would be great, but it is thrown around at people that play casually just as much as "exploiter" is at people that play competitively.

And there are less competitive elitists than casual elitists because there are less competitive players!

QFT x 2

Trying to make all the casuals like the idiot casuals is... idiot. Is exactly the same point that "all the competitive are elitist". It's just isn't right.

And again, i thought a scrub was a player who didn't use adv. techs because they think is cheap, or whatever, and so they complain about it. But the scrubs have to be "competitive" (or sort of). I read this somewhere and it explained it well.

Can someone explain me the EXACT definition of a scrub?

Its not that your wrong, its that there actually are good and bad ways to go about things and there actually are right and wrong opinions. Take global warming, people still hold the opinion that no, there is no global warming, yet, others hold the opinion that there is, and the big difference between the two parties is that one is backed by mountains of evidence and the other has but fragments. Yet, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear the earth is warming, look at this evidence" an elitist? What about this, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear items negatively effect matches and reward the less talented player, look at this match video" an elitist?

Yeah, you can't say that is elitist. That is true. But it becomes elitist when you put like this...

"look, its clear items negatively effect matches and reward the less talented player, look at this match video. so it's better play my way"

Don't miss the point. The bold sentence is the problem. Competitive players (a lot) will see you down if you don't play like them, because they automatically think is worse than hims.

The true point is: like i said earlier, when you want to have a challengue or try your skill, the competitive is the way to go, and that is an undeniable truth. And that's not a elitist. But when you say that for have FUN you MUST play that way, you are being elitist.

*headache*

Also, it goes the same in the other way. The people who says you MUST play with items on because is funnyer are also wrong... They have a point that competitive don't: the game was meant to be played like that. Yet, that's enough a reason to think their way is the best.

If you want to think, for instance the ones defending are the casuals players because competitive players are forcing their way with that elitism (not all, but many). (And also this is why I hate things like forcing the glitches out of the game instead of letting the metagame evolve naturally)

Proverbs is amazing.



Correct in essense but sometimes wrong in certain contexts (is that the right word?). A tournament has a purpose, and usually that purpose to to expose who the best players are. Assuming the purpose of a tournament is to find out who is better then who, then the setting you use can very much be right or wrong, as one setting will have a higher accuracy in determing the better player than the other. I don't really care how Smash is played outside of tournaments, I've done ****loads of whacky stuff, the other day I did a match with my GF where we were DK/Bowser, Giant Melee, Mushrooms/Pokeballs on very high on PS and it was fun. But, heres the thing, giant Melee mushrooms/pokeballs only is clearly not going to be the best method of determing who the better player is (esp when you consider pokeballs), I don't think its elitist to tell people that if your in a tournament, there are rules, and those rules exist to ensure the best player is the one who wins.

In a tournament, there is a right and wrong way to play, but in a noncompetitive setting it doesn't matter, you should play whatever seems like the most fun.

Yeah, that's why in competitive tournaments (where we see who's the best) the casual rules are out.

Anyway, someone can be the best in casual tournaments ^_^ in my association we have done two or three of them (a few, really. normally we do competitive tourneys) and is not that bad. And some people who knows how to catch the items in the air and other things (that the competitive people don't do usually) get better places than in competitive tourneys.

There is no right or wrong in smash. Just there isn't. Except you have to difference from the styles of playing.

By comparison, they do. When compared to competitive smash play, casual players are not very good. There are few exceptions to this. There is a reason why we are competitive, there is a reason why we place well in tournaments. Does this make us better human beings? No. Does this make it alright to belittle people with less skill? No. Saying otherwise would be ignorant, as it goes against all the information we know about this game. It goes against all of my personal experience, as well as those of other seasoned vets. You guys shouldn't even be upset by this, because you aren't trying to compete, nor should you expect to do well on the competitive circuit when you have never taken part in it.

The problem is that people don't recognize any of this. They assume all the knowledge that the competitive scene has compiled does not amount to anything. People argue against our rules and they complain about them, when they really don't know why the rules are there in the first place. I don't mind debating competitive rules with casual players, but when they attack the status quo with stereotypes and ignorance they only stir up trouble. When we defend our rules they don't actually debate, and when we get upset at them, we get labeled as "elitists."

Yeah, i agree with you. yeah, a competitive player is better than a casual player in competitive playing, and usually also in casual playing. BUT WHAT I HATE IS WHEN THE PEOPLE THINKS THEY ARE GODS BECAUSE OF THAT.

>_>

I hate it too much. I'm going to eat an aspirina, my headache hurts a lot T_T

Bye

/raisesflameshield

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Having an opinion =/= elitist

 

[yoshi_fan]

Having an opinion =/= elitist

.

Having the oppinion that you are the better than the other and piss them = elitist.

I have a question for the people who have met him. Is m2k elitist or he isn't.

The M2k of spain is K-12 (horribly elitist) and i did argue in a ocasion with m2k when the removal of wavedashing (and i still don't see why a lot of people cryed... yes, it was a HORRIBLE quit... but you had to be expecting for a new game not for a melee 2.0, that's why i argued)

Can someone answer? (I don't want the best of the best be the best of the best elitist >_>)


Thanks

 

[jdub03]

Proverbs is amazing.



Correct in essense but sometimes wrong in certain contexts (is that the right word?). A tournament has a purpose, and usually that purpose to to expose who the best players are. Assuming the purpose of a tournament is to find out who is better then who, then the setting you use can very much be right or wrong, as one setting will have a higher accuracy in determing the better player than the other. I don't really care how Smash is played outside of tournaments, I've done ****loads of whacky stuff, the other day I did a match with my GF where we were DK/Bowser, Giant Melee, Mushrooms/Pokeballs on very high on PS and it was fun. But, heres the thing, giant Melee mushrooms/pokeballs only is clearly not going to be the best method of determing who the better player is (esp when you consider pokeballs), I don't think its elitist to tell people that if your in a tournament, there are rules, and those rules exist to ensure the best player is the one who wins.

In a tournament, there is a right and wrong way to play, but in a noncompetitive setting it doesn't matter, you should play whatever seems like the most fun.

This needs to be stickied in big letters all over SWF. I agree with this post 110%.

 

[Window]

I agree with Yuna, but I really wish he'd stop talking a little.

 

[Winston]

But how do you know that anyone saying they hate wavedashing or prefer 64 to melee is bad at the game?

How do you know that?

You don't.

You're elitist, you just assume that all casuals suck horrendously at the game.

Do you dispute the fact that someone who plays casually is far less skilled at smash than someone who goes to tournaments frequently and is exposed to top-notch competition....?

I'm sorry, but how is it unfair to assume that people who have put more time and effort into a game and have vastly more knowledge and experience with it are better at it than casual players?

 

[Undyingz]

my friend at school is a competitive elitist... lol moment he played the *** version of brawl, he went home got his gamecube and started playing melee again while ranting on about how much he hates brawl... =/