psyniac_123
Smash Ace
Another myth... I once heard that "Elitists" eat BABIES. Is that true?
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One can be what they want to be, and anything is better or worse than others (except being idiot).Just thought I'd point out that, as stated earlier in the topic, Scrub = People who complain about adv. techs. Now, excuse me if I'm mistaken, but I joined Smash Boards(lurked for some time longer) right before all the "newbies" as you'd like to call them flooded in, and most of them meet the "Scrub" criteria, because they just read Encyclopedia Dramatica(ED) and say "Hey, this is completely true!", or listen to someone preach what ED said.
Scrubs isn't a permanent condition, and its easily reversable. Its not elitest, its just what it is. Calling people who denounce Adv. Techs as not being useful to the game, and refusing to see reason, newbies, is not fair to those just starting out in the smash scene, who are actively learning and understanding everything they can.
Does it have a negative connotation? Of course it does. No one SHOULD be a scrub. Its a close minded loop, which does nothing to make you look better, and can only stand to embarrass you at some point by saying something stupid like "Jigglypuff and Ice Climbers are worthless characters and pieces of crap."
Just to make an example of the above and commonly found Casual quote, its the Newbies who, when told of WOPs and Wobbling, Rising Pound and Desyncing, they decide to learn, because they KNOW it'll make them better.
Scrubs say, "No, Jigglypuff and IC suck, and so do Adv. Techs. Its just cheating. I can be better than most people without them."
-DD
I feel almost as if you are referring to the existing thread going on. If you think we flamed that guy for preferring Brawl and 64 over Melee then you are very much mistaken. Often times in these situations, the flaming is somewhat warranted, due to the reasons for preferring it over Melee would be something along the lines of "competitives ruined melee so I don't like it."Brawl or prefer 64 to melee, and they get flamed for it.
People are entitled to their opinions, however, if their opinion is based in ignorance and arrogance then people will of course set them straight. Simply put, people that think that way are scrubs and idiots, and they seriously need to learn how to be realistic. These people also don't care about who they offend and they are very loud and obnoxious. They are also flamed by other casual players for being dumb.But a lot of people have egos and are just as entitled to their opinion of "I can beat anyone" as you are to "competitive smashers can beat anyone who isn't".
By comparison, they do. When compared to competitive smash play, casual players are not very good. There are few exceptions to this. There is a reason why we are competitive, there is a reason why we place well in tournaments. Does this make us better human beings? No. Does this make it alright to belittle people with less skill? No. Saying otherwise would be ignorant, as it goes against all the information we know about this game. It goes against all of my personal experience, as well as those of other seasoned vets. You guys shouldn't even be upset by this, because you aren't trying to compete, nor should you expect to do well on the competitive circuit when you have never taken part in it.You're elitist, you just assume that all casuals suck horrendously at the game.
Like a thornbush in a drunkard's hand is a proverb in the mouth of a fool.Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
(Proverbs 26:12)
Mookierad, AND Yuna. Just answer this. Can you honestly say to yourself and the other people on this board ... that there aren't people on this board who "act" competitive and then belittle people whom they think are inferior.By comparison, they do. When compared to competitive smash play, casual players are not very good. There are few exceptions to this. There is a reason why we are competitive, there is a reason why we place well in tournaments. Does this make us better human beings? No. Does this make it alright to belittle people with less skill? No. Saying otherwise would be ignorant, as it goes against all the information we know about this game. It goes against all of my personal experience, as well as those of other seasoned vets. You guys shouldn't even be upset by this, because you aren't trying to compete, nor should you expect to do well on the competitive circuit when you have never taken part in it.
The problem is that people don't recognize any of this. They assume all the knowledge that the competitive scene has compiled does not amount to anything. People argue against our rules and they complain about them, when they really don't know why the rules are there in the first place. I don't mind debating competitive rules with casual players, but when they attack the status quo with stereotypes and ignorance they only stir up trouble. When we defend our rules they don't actually debate, and when we get upset at them, we get labeled as "elitists."
Of course. I haven't denied their existence. There are just not all that many of them running around, and when they do belittle others you will find competitive players flaming them for doing so as well as casual players. I know they exist, and they are just idiots. Both sides have their fair share of idiots. People need to learn to distinguish between the two.Mookierad, AND Yuna. Just answer this. Can you honestly say to yourself and the other people on this board ... that there aren't people on this board who "act" competitive and then belittle people whom they think are inferior.
How is Isai elitist? He's a really good dude, and quite funny too. He doesn't even post much, and when he does it's either very serious or something completely random. What exactly are you basing this off of?Mexican and Isai are both terribly elitist.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.Like a thornbush in a drunkard's hand is a proverb in the mouth of a fool.
(Proverbs 26:9)
So why are they 'elitist competitives' instead of just plain *****? If a guy was rude to me and happened to be a skydiver, I wouldn't go around saying MAN THOSE SKYDIVERS SURE HAVE ANOTHER THING COMINGThis topic poses a question and statement that is ignoring the facts of what the "elitist competitive" is.
Almost none of the 'elitist competitive' players that the members here ***** about are actually high ranking or well-known players.
They are mostly all no-names who spam adv. techs and tell you you are a noob for liking items or playing low tier characters and the Brawl is a horrible game because it isn't Melee.
The 'elitist competitives' are a bunch of people who are probably either really bad and/or talk a lot of **** because it makes them feel better. They are just trolling and have no importance to the smash community, but they are the ones giving competitive players a bad name, because they make it seem like real/competitive players are just like them since they parade around as competitive players, looking down on casuals as an insult (when the ****ing game was created for casuals in the first place, since the N64 game).
So stop with this "myth" crap, just because the people giving you guys a worse name are no-names. They're still there and you know nobody can give you 5 names off the top of their head or have saved instances that they can prove to you. All you did was set a trap so you'd turn out right in the end.
I do enjoy an occasional sauteed child, yes.Another myth... I once heard that "Elitists" eat BABIES. Is that true?
Its not that your wrong, its that there actually are good and bad ways to go about things and there actually are right and wrong opinions. Take global warming, people still hold the opinion that no, there is no global warming, yet, others hold the opinion that there is, and the big difference between the two parties is that one is backed by mountains of evidence and the other has but fragments. Yet, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear the earth is warming, look at this evidence" an elitist? What about this, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear items negatively effect matches and reward the less talented player, look at this match video" an elitist?Since you're the one that started bringing bible quotes to rigorously defend Yuna, being oh so sure that their opinion is the only right one, you might want to practice a few of the quotes themselves and not be such a jerk. The very basis of elitism is saying "I am right in saying this and in doing this and your way of saying and doing this is wrong."(prove me wrong on this one I dare you).
No, I wouldn't call them elitist. But I would say that they are being elitist in their view that "Items negatively effect matches", because there is no right way to play and if two people want to play with items on, then let em have at it, it's all about fun. Which brings me back to the point of humility, there is no right or wrong in playing Smash, but there is wrong when one begins to say it is wrong to play with items on in casual matches, or someone says items on in competitive ones is the only way. Thusly, depending on this argument at the moment, which seems to be of elitism, yes, it is wrong to say "Yuna is completely right in every single corner of their argument, there is no chance they could possibly ever be wrong."Its not that your wrong, its that there actually are good and bad ways to go about things and there actually are right and wrong opinions. Take global warming, people still hold the opinion that no, there is no global warming, yet, others hold the opinion that there is, and the big difference between the two parties is that one is backed by mountains of evidence and the other has but fragments. Yet, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear the earth is warming, look at this evidence" an elitist? What about this, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear items negatively effect matches and reward the less talented player, look at this match video" an elitist?
Well honestly I don't mind that it rewards the lesser player but I agree nonetheless. Pros can do whatever they want as long as they stay out of my living room . . . You will stay out of my living room right?Its not that your wrong, its that there actually are good and bad ways to go about things and there actually are right and wrong opinions. Take global warming, people still hold the opinion that no, there is no global warming, yet, others hold the opinion that there is, and the big difference between the two parties is that one is backed by mountains of evidence and the other has but fragments. Yet, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear the earth is warming, look at this evidence" an elitist? What about this, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear items negatively effect matches and reward the less talented player, look at this match video" an elitist?
That's just it. That's what I meant when I said:And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
(Matthew 23:12)
Since you're the one that started bringing bible quotes to rigorously defend Yuna, being oh so sure that their opinion is the only right one, you might want to practice a few of the quotes themselves and not be such a jerk. The very basis of elitism is saying "I am right in saying this and in doing this and your way of saying and doing this is wrong."(prove me wrong on this one I dare you).
What I'm trying to say is, don't be such a jerk and be a little bit like Mookie, that's why everybody likes him.
Oh okay so you're calling me a fool then. You're right, let's you and I forget our own little debate altogether, as I dislike being looked down upon by someone as high and mighty as you.But I can see that this is going to be a pointless debate...
If a wise man goes to court with a fool,
the fool rages and scoffs, and there is no peace.
(Proverbs 29: 9)
So I think I'm going to quit while I'm ahead.
The prudent see danger and take refuge,
but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
(Proverbs 27:12)
Though I may lack Smash, it seems as though I have found a new game to play.
(Yeesh, Yuna. Even when I say you're right, you still find a way in which I'm wrong. Kidding kidding...)
I agree with you in all of that but that's not quite the argument I was going against, good point on your end regardless. -nod-Proverbs is amazing.
Correct in essense but sometimes wrong in certain contexts (is that the right word?). A tournament has a purpose, and usually that purpose to to expose who the best players are. Assuming the purpose of a tournament is to find out who is better then who, then the setting you use can very much be right or wrong, as one setting will have a higher accuracy in determing the better player than the other. I don't really care how Smash is played outside of tournaments, I've done ****loads of whacky stuff, the other day I did a match with my GF where we were DK/Bowser, Giant Melee, Mushrooms/Pokeballs on very high on PS and it was fun. But, heres the thing, giant Melee mushrooms/pokeballs only is clearly not going to be the best method of determing who the better player is (esp when you consider pokeballs), I don't think its elitist to tell people that if your in a tournament, there are rules, and those rules exist to ensure the best player is the one who wins.
In a tournament, there is a right and wrong way to play, but in a noncompetitive setting it doesn't matter, you should play whatever seems like the most fun.
Forgive his bad english, he is spanish and education in Spain sucks.yunas idea of arguing is, "list 5 people." The simplicity of that argument is key to his victory. No matter how many points you make to him, if you dont list 5 people, you lose.
Yoshi ... check spelling and grammar next time please. If youre going to write a huge post like that and spend the time writing it, try and make it as legible as possible.
Because this is a message board and everybody should give his opinion. If you don't like that, then the "Ignore User" option is your friendI don't see why we should suffer through yoshi_fan's posts just because he has a personal vendetta against a few Spanish smashers...
Woah. I'm sorry. Who are you? Yuna had you bent over so far I thought it was him.My my my... what have we here.
This is quite the scene. It seems there has been just a lot of misunderstanding from many members part, while at the same time Yuna and MookieRah have been taking the time to carefully explain their disposition on the subject at hand. Personally I'm still confused as to how there are some people who still haven't understood the point Yuna was trying to make since the first post of this thread.
Yuna, although a tad arrogant in the first post, has brought up an extremely valid point in regards to this "myth" about elitist competitives. Everyone here who has been trying to name 5 elitists has seriously missed the big picture. Although I thought it was fairly obvious... I don't think the purpose Yuna made this thread was for people to go out and search the internet for 5 elitists. The point Yuna was trying to make, since the very first post, was that Competitive Elitists simply do not exist. Maybe the method Yuna used to go about explaining his first post may have been a tad faulty and open to misunderstanding, but the steps Yuna has taken throughout the course of this thread in order to explain his argument and 'break' the myth have been flawless.
To Yuna and MookieRah, I agree with both of you wholeheartedly. You've both managed to stay surprisingly calm and collected during all of your rebuttals for other peoples arguments. In addition to that I feel that you are both working towards bettering the community as a whole just with the creation of this thread.
To the rest, you should listen to the words which are coming out of both their fingers. They are speaking the truth, and are being incredibly sincere and honest in trying to explain their positions on the entire situation. Yet as it stands we are 18 pages in and honestly there hasn't been a single counter-argument that has been able to hold it's ground against what is the actual truth of the SmashBoards which they've both been desperately trying to explain to everyone.
After reading and siphoning through all these pages, I've decided to do my own take on the whole "myth" of the competitive elitists and what not. I decided to start my point with a nice, neat little diagram which should clearly explain exactly what I mean to say (not to mention what has already been stated many times throughout the thread) without any misunderstandings.
This diagram here should be an accurate depiction on the subject at hand. This is a depiction of the current groups of people which can be found roaming SmashBoards, as well as pretty much the Internet as a whole (Youtube, Brawl Central, etc...).
As you can see, it can be broken down into 3 distinct categories. Casual Smasher, Competitive Smasher, and Idiot.
Notice how there is no difference between Casual Smasher and Competitive Smasher apart from the color or flavor. Which is exactly how the two groups of people act. Both groups play Smash Bros, but they each play with their own "flavor" of the game. Neither of them play the game wrong, and neither group tries to convince the other group otherwise.
Then we have the 3rd group... the sort of "gray" area of the boards... the Idiots. These are the ones who cause the REAL problem here. They are the ones responsible for the "Myth" that we have been talking about, They are the ones responsible for the indirect hatred which has spawned between the two groups. I tried to think of a nicer name to call them, but quite frankly I don't think there is anything that is more fitting for them. Notice how the Idiot's aren't really their own entity. The Idiots sort of coexists along side both groups of smashers simultaneously, and they sort of spill over onto either side of the community. The irony in this is that neither side of Smasher really accepts these idiots as being part of their group.
As MookieRah said earlier in this post, a true Competitive Smasher would argue against a Competitive Elitist who is belittling a Casual Smasher.
I am sure that other Casuals would agree as well that a true Casual Smasher wouldn't be happy to see another Casual Scrub running around in a Tournament thread made by Competitives, spouting that they are playing the game wrong or they are playing it against the creators wishes.
Competitive Elitists, Casual Scrubs, and any other derogatory Smasher term with which you can come up with all belong to the group of Idiots who seep their way into both communities, and give the wrong ideas to either crowd.
Competitive Elitists DO NOT Exist in the Competitive Smashers scene.
Casual Scrubs DO NOT Exist in the Casual Smashers scene.
They all belong in the gray Idiot Smashers scene, which to be blunt we should just flat-out ignore.
As a community, this is what we should be telling ourselves;
As a Competitive Smasher, don't look down upon Casual Smashers because some Idiots come into your threads and tell you that you are playing the game wrong.
As a Casual Smasher, don't look down upon Competitive Smashers because some Idiots tell you that you all suck at the game because of your lack of advanced techniques or that you play with Items.
Casual and Competitive Smashers should be able to exist alongside each other in harmony (Euk, that sounds so cliché). Just don't get confused with both scenes with all the idiots running around.
Post-EDIT: Ho ho... looks like I rambled on too much.. Oh well, not much I can do
You know it's nice to see how large and dynamic the community has grown. I've been a member since 2001 (it's true! check my profile!) and I remember the days Smash Melee was about to be released were no where NEAR as vibrant and fiery in comparison to some of the threads we have today!
I can't wait to see how both communities evolve in the coming years.
Well, one thing is for sure. Competitive players never have less fun than casuals. You know why? Because every competitive player was once casual, and they liked competitive more than casual, so they stuck with it.Easy, go to the thread "So how do casuals and competitives interact".
Every post that states along the lines of "competitive players have more fun" are elitists. Just as every that states "casuals have more fun" are idiots in the same way.
I'm sorry but the OP post gives off the same impression. Anyone that states "Oh of course they started it, and they are the only ones in the wrong" is deluded.
Look everyone, here's a perfect example of exactly what I was talking about.Woah. I'm sorry. Who are you? Yuna had you bent over so far I thought it was him.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=147427Honestly, I have never seen a "we have more fun" post. It's always just "we have more fun this way, and what is fun for you may not be fun for me." Sometimes it gets misinterpreted though.
Also, Yuna never said that there are absolutely no competitive elitists; just that they are far fewer than scrubs/ casual elitists.
Look everyone, here's a perfect example of exactly what I was talking about.
See the obvious thought right now would be to think that this "asdfasdfaw" guy is actually a Casual Smasher who is against the Competitive Scene. This is actually not the case. This guy is actually part of the Idiot group (and seriously, by his unbelievably immature and stupid rebuttal, can you really disagree?) that I was talking about in my post.
What do ya know, I didn't even have to look for an example to back up my argument. It came right to me instead!
QFT x 2http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=147427
"Also, competitive players have much more fun than "casual" players because "casuals" bind themselves to scrubby rules."
"I think Competitive players enjoy the game overall more so than casual players. Why? Because you never hear them complaining about how the casual players play >.>."
"It's a division in maturity."
"Scrub rules fall more under the idea of "If something is good, i won't use it"
There you go.
"True Meaning of a Scrub: Someone who complains about things being 'cheap'."
This would be great, but it is thrown around at people that play casually just as much as "exploiter" is at people that play competitively.
And there are less competitive elitists than casual elitists because there are less competitive players!
Yeah, you can't say that is elitist. That is true. But it becomes elitist when you put like this...Its not that your wrong, its that there actually are good and bad ways to go about things and there actually are right and wrong opinions. Take global warming, people still hold the opinion that no, there is no global warming, yet, others hold the opinion that there is, and the big difference between the two parties is that one is backed by mountains of evidence and the other has but fragments. Yet, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear the earth is warming, look at this evidence" an elitist? What about this, would you call anyone who says "look, its clear items negatively effect matches and reward the less talented player, look at this match video" an elitist?
Proverbs is amazing.
Correct in essense but sometimes wrong in certain contexts (is that the right word?). A tournament has a purpose, and usually that purpose to to expose who the best players are. Assuming the purpose of a tournament is to find out who is better then who, then the setting you use can very much be right or wrong, as one setting will have a higher accuracy in determing the better player than the other. I don't really care how Smash is played outside of tournaments, I've done ****loads of whacky stuff, the other day I did a match with my GF where we were DK/Bowser, Giant Melee, Mushrooms/Pokeballs on very high on PS and it was fun. But, heres the thing, giant Melee mushrooms/pokeballs only is clearly not going to be the best method of determing who the better player is (esp when you consider pokeballs), I don't think its elitist to tell people that if your in a tournament, there are rules, and those rules exist to ensure the best player is the one who wins.
In a tournament, there is a right and wrong way to play, but in a noncompetitive setting it doesn't matter, you should play whatever seems like the most fun.
Yeah, i agree with you. yeah, a competitive player is better than a casual player in competitive playing, and usually also in casual playing. BUT WHAT I HATE IS WHEN THE PEOPLE THINKS THEY ARE GODS BECAUSE OF THAT.By comparison, they do. When compared to competitive smash play, casual players are not very good. There are few exceptions to this. There is a reason why we are competitive, there is a reason why we place well in tournaments. Does this make us better human beings? No. Does this make it alright to belittle people with less skill? No. Saying otherwise would be ignorant, as it goes against all the information we know about this game. It goes against all of my personal experience, as well as those of other seasoned vets. You guys shouldn't even be upset by this, because you aren't trying to compete, nor should you expect to do well on the competitive circuit when you have never taken part in it.
The problem is that people don't recognize any of this. They assume all the knowledge that the competitive scene has compiled does not amount to anything. People argue against our rules and they complain about them, when they really don't know why the rules are there in the first place. I don't mind debating competitive rules with casual players, but when they attack the status quo with stereotypes and ignorance they only stir up trouble. When we defend our rules they don't actually debate, and when we get upset at them, we get labeled as "elitists."
.Having an opinion =/= elitist
This needs to be stickied in big letters all over SWF. I agree with this post 110%.Proverbs is amazing.
Correct in essense but sometimes wrong in certain contexts (is that the right word?). A tournament has a purpose, and usually that purpose to to expose who the best players are. Assuming the purpose of a tournament is to find out who is better then who, then the setting you use can very much be right or wrong, as one setting will have a higher accuracy in determing the better player than the other. I don't really care how Smash is played outside of tournaments, I've done ****loads of whacky stuff, the other day I did a match with my GF where we were DK/Bowser, Giant Melee, Mushrooms/Pokeballs on very high on PS and it was fun. But, heres the thing, giant Melee mushrooms/pokeballs only is clearly not going to be the best method of determing who the better player is (esp when you consider pokeballs), I don't think its elitist to tell people that if your in a tournament, there are rules, and those rules exist to ensure the best player is the one who wins.
In a tournament, there is a right and wrong way to play, but in a noncompetitive setting it doesn't matter, you should play whatever seems like the most fun.
Do you dispute the fact that someone who plays casually is far less skilled at smash than someone who goes to tournaments frequently and is exposed to top-notch competition....?But how do you know that anyone saying they hate wavedashing or prefer 64 to melee is bad at the game?
How do you know that?
You don't.
You're elitist, you just assume that all casuals suck horrendously at the game.