Social The MKGD: The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated

[Balgorxz]

hey lads I'm thinking to switch my 2 characters (DDD and Falco) for metaknight since I've been training with him the last 3 days and I'm getting pretty good results I think it fits better my style but he has some rough matchups.
What is a good secondary character for a MK main?

 

[warionumbah2]

Good combo against ZSS and C.Falcon when they're at 0%.

Falcon: Dash Attack --> Utilt --> Utilt --> Uair --> Mach Tornado/Nair to punish air dodge.

ZSS: Dash attack --> Utilt --> Utilt --> Uair(ZSS is able to react at this point but all her aerials are too slow to beat our uair so they'll airdodge) --> Nair.

The first free parts are guaranteed. So that's a free 15-17%.

Nice find but they are well known...also works on most characters just fyi ~<3

Well last page has a combo list and i didn't see this listed so i posted it just incase people didn't know so yeah,,,

 

[Jay-kun]

hey lads I'm thinking to switch my 2 characters (DDD and Falco) for metaknight since I've been training with him the last 3 days and I'm getting pretty good results I think it fits better my style but he has some rough matchups.
What is a good secondary character for a MK main?

How about Pikachu?

 

[Jay-kun]

Good combo against ZSS and C.Falcon when they're at 0%.

Falcon: Dash Attack --> Utilt --> Utilt --> Uair --> Mach Tornado/Nair to punish air dodge.

ZSS: Dash attack --> Utilt --> Utilt --> Uair(ZSS is able to react at this point but all her aerials are too slow to beat our uair so they'll airdodge) --> Nair.

The first free parts are guaranteed. So that's a free 15-17%.

Nice find but they are well known...also works on most characters just fyi ~<3

 

[Jay-kun]

Oops I double posted..oops I triple-posted XD ~<3

 

[Golden Sun]

Oops I double posted..oops I triple-posted XD ~<3

inb4modrage

 

[Katakiri]

Anyway, back on-topic...

hey lads I'm thinking to switch my 2 characters (DDD and Falco) for metaknight since I've been training with him the last 3 days and I'm getting pretty good results I think it fits better my style but he has some rough matchups.
What is a good secondary character for a MK main?

Well MK really only struggles with a few characters IMO: Pikachu & Sonic for sure. Kirby and Olimar in theory.
Kirby's probably the only unexpected one. His frame data is leagues better than any other character so he can box us out really easily with F-Tilt & Jab alone. He can just duck to avoid D-Air and throw-out D-Tilts to maintain pressure. Kirby's even more underrated than MK.

Honestly, Falco wouldn't be a bad pick for you. He pressures Sonic well, beats Olimar, and I wouldn't imagine Pikachu would be too much trouble. Kirby beats him pretty handily tho but no one uses Kirby.

But overall, I think R.O.B. is MK's best secondary picks. It controls the ground very well, beats Pikachu and Sonic's approach options with Gyro pressure, and ROB has the nice benefit of having the strongest off-the-top KO throw in the game.

I personally use Wario as my secondary now since he does okay in all those match-ups. He's also hard to counter pick if I'm locked into him for a game as Wario Waft is a universal win condition.

 

[Jay-kun]

Anyway, back on-topic...

Well MK really only struggles with a few characters IMO: Pikachu & Sonic for sure. Kirby and Olimar in theory.
Kirby's probably the only unexpected one. His frame data is leagues better than any other character so he can box us out really easily with F-Tilt & Jab alone. He can just duck to avoid D-Air and throw-out D-Tilts to maintain pressure. Kirby's even more underrated than MK.

Honestly, Falco wouldn't be a bad pick for you. He pressures Sonic well, beats Olimar, and I wouldn't imagine Pikachu would be too much trouble. Kirby beats him pretty handily tho but no one uses Kirby.

But overall, I think R.O.B. is MK's best secondary picks. It controls the ground very well, beats Pikachu and Sonic's approach options with Gyro pressure, and ROB has the nice benefit of having the strongest off-the-top KO throw in the game.

I personally use Wario as my secondary now since he does okay in all those match-ups. He's also hard to counter pick if I'm locked into him for a game as Wario Waft is a universal win condition.

Hey I am trying to be funny here. Please do not send me that mail thingy. It makes me uncomfortable. Thank you for your time. ~<3



Anyway, back on-topic... GET REKT M8
This is not Pokemon bro, you can't always define your secondary to be the character that is the best against your mains' worst MU. There are no super-effective moves in this game :/ you understand?
Balgorxz you should find your main yourself. Play every character even the ones you would NEVER play as, get good as them, then see which character you had the most fun with.
But before you say not to rely on emotions ~<3, remember Smash is as mental game and your mental state-of-mind is affected by emotions, am I wrong? Therefore, playing a fun character might mean playing a comfortable character. And being comfortable while playing the game is KEY.

Katakiri, I disagree and can destroy your reasons with this simple statement : know your opponent
This Means
-Know your opponents patterns
-Know your opponent as a human being xD
-Know your opponent's character inside and out (Or just have experience playing as that character, know their true combos, their priorities, and disjointed hitboxes)

^ This is the reason why I recommended Pikachu as a secondary ~<3

THE END

 

[Trunks159]

Hmm can cape be used as a good ledge trump option? To the lab...

 

[Golden Sun]

Hmm can cape be used as a good ledge trump option? To the lab...

The cape is a very good spacing tool to not get gimped, but its a slightly better chance to just airdodge and recovery, theirs a small chance you can miss the ledge with the cape, usually doesn't happen, but I wouldn't take the risk, also not to mention, they should really make MK grab the ledge behind him after he slashes and he's REALLY close by the edge, another thing is that he bounces off the wall if a MT is in play, that gets people off easily if they want to recovery from that.

 

[Katakiri]

@ Jay-kun please take the time grasp the concept and value of match-ups. I'm sure the competitive section of the Smash 4 forum has something the topic. Knowing your opponent is viable in a local setting or with friends but it's impossible to know how every Smash 4 player in the world plays their characters, especially because everyone's playstyle is constantly changing. Having an advantageous character match-up is the best way to get around the unknown factors between players. So you're almost half right.

 

[Jay-kun]

@ Jay-kun please take the time grasp the concept and value of match-ups. I'm sure the competitive section of the Smash 4 forum has something the topic. Knowing your opponent is viable in a local setting or with friends but it's impossible to know how every Smash 4 player in the world plays their characters, especially because everyone's playstyle is constantly changing. Having an advantageous character match-up is the best way to get around the unknown factors between players. So your almost half right.

Haha I never said it was necessary :/ Obviously if it was, then 50% of FG battles would result in failure. About the unknown factors thing: if you have a better MU then your opponent then they usually cannot show their full potential. So actually I was 90-100% right considering you attempted to explain why on only 1 of them (but u failed anyway :/)...I have considered all your points so I can say that you are 100% false. Please reply considering all my points in this post and the one be4. TY~<3

 

[daedgaem]

Is this underage plebeian serious?

 

[warionumbah2]

Might start uploading though the quality will be doodoo since im recording with my tablet in hand, so the camera will be shaky. I wanna post a match where a DK player put me on lock near the edge and killed me would like feedback on how i can avoid that situation. Although the video is 3 weeks old I still haven't played enough DK to formulate a counter measure for that situation. Also MU that are in our favor: Dark Pit (nintendo dojo player he mains DK but this was his secondary), Rosalina, Ike (FG but im coming across a lot of good players which is odd).

Can't leave my replays sitting there forever lmao. Gutted I didn't save my matches against Wrath.

 

[Jay-kun]

Yo chill. How me get infraction for replying and defending my viewpoints? ~<3

 

[Trunks159]

Anybody wanna help me play metaknight?

 

[Oblivion129]

Balgorxz you should find your main yourself. Play every character even the ones you would NEVER play as, get good as them, then see which character you had the most fun with.

^ This is the reason why I recommended Pikachu as a secondary ~<3

 

[Nahvi]

Hi there, I've been hanging around these threads for a long time and I have just decided to make an account. And yes, I'm a full MK mainer in Sm4sh.
Name: Nahvi
Location: Valencia, Spain
Talents: Nothing special.
Likes: Videogames and music (Dream Theater <3)
Dislikes: Arrogant people
Goals: Get experienced and skilled in Sm4sh with Meta Knight.
Other facts: I have played MK7 and KI:U competitively at a decent level.

 

[Jay-kun]

Thx bro nice editing, but I think you forgot a few sentences

 

[Oblivion129]

Thx bro nice editing, but I think you forgot a few sentences

I could put all the lines in, but recommending Pikachu after all you said about knowing your character and stuff, is still contradictory.

What you said is true, though, about state-of-mind and knowing your opponent, but then you recommended a character after saying he should find one on his own.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you expressed yourself poorly. Maybe both.

 

[Jay-kun]

I could put all the lines in, but recommending Pikachu after all you said about knowing your character and stuff, is still contradictory.

What you said is true, though, about state-of-mind and knowing your opponent, but then you recommended a character after saying he should find one on his own.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you expressed yourself poorly. Maybe both.

lol i also said why i recommended Pikachu but I guess you didn't see it :/

 

[Oblivion129]

lol i also said why i recommended Pikachu but I guess you didn't see it :/

Oh you mean to learn Pikachu, that way you know your opponent's character? My apologies. I took it as if you were pointing to the whole paragraph and not just that last part.
That's true, but we should also learn pretty much every character.

 

[warionumbah2]

Uploaded FG matches, damn that took awhile. Once i got a message(they change their name tag) saying 'JUST META?' was he that shocked that people use MK? lol.

I think MK struggles with characters with good normals, like for example the Mario trio all have amazing frame data but Doc having a worse projectile and movement speed means we won't have to worry about punishment say for example you drift away after a failed Tornado. Mario has the better projectile and movement but its not like it completely shuts down our approaches, Luigi's fire balls on the other hand walls us out and has better combo game and kill set up.

Ike players that leave out hitboxes to stop our approaches using nair and dtilt are troublesome but the start up of say for example jab after nair can be punished with MK blitzing speed, MK i think jumps over dtilt when he uses his DA MK can get in but it all comes down to you(ties in with how demanding MK can be).

And of course heavy weights that have fast moves and less end lag like Bowser and imo DK. Ganondorf is also a *****, his range is disgusting and damage per hit is nasty a few reads and we die. He can break our uair chains with down B and stop our gimp attempts with he recovers horizontally costing us the stock, never try to punish U-Smash its literally bait.

Welcome @ Nahvi always nice seeing new members.

 

[busken]

Oops, I just realized I never introduced myself.
Gamertag: surf
Location: Philadelphia
Talents: drums
Likes: basketball, smash, playing pranks and jokes
Dislikes: mean people, too serious
Goals: To get good at smash lol
Other facts: I played soccer for 6 years. For 5 years we made it to the championships and never won. One year we didn't even make it to the playoffs. The year I left my team relocated and finally won.

 

[Deleted member]

Uploaded FG matches, damn that took awhile. Once i got a message(they change their name tag) saying 'JUST META?' was he that shocked that people use MK? lol.

I think MK struggles with characters with good normals, like for example the Mario trio all have amazing frame data but Doc having a worse projectile and movement speed means we won't have to worry about punishment say for example you drift away after a failed Tornado. Mario has the better projectile and movement but its not like it completely shuts down our approaches, Luigi's fire balls on the other hand walls us out and has better combo game and kill set up.

Ike players that leave out hitboxes to stop our approaches using nair and dtilt are troublesome but the start up of say for example jab after nair can be punished with MK blitzing speed, MK i think jumps over dtilt when he uses his DA MK can get in but it all comes down to you(ties in with how demanding MK can be).

And of course heavy weights that have fast moves and less end lag like Bowser and imo DK. Ganondorf is also a *****, his range is disgusting and damage per hit is nasty a few reads and we die. He can break our uair chains with down B and stop our gimp attempts with he recovers horizontally costing us the stock, never try to punish U-Smash its literally bait.

Welcome @ Nahvi always nice seeing new members.

Uploaded where?

Also, welcome @ busken !

 

[warionumbah2]

Uploaded where?

Also, welcome @ busken !

The MK video thread.

 

[busken]

Hey guys, just to let you know for the sake of better organization and discussion I have made the matchup discussion thread roughly a week by week format. Some characters may be discussed longer then others, but the general goal is to get as much input as possible on the specific match-up and post it in the OP where it can be easily accessible. I have decided that the matchup voting should take place here as this is a very active thread. I thank everybody for their prior contributions to the thread and will be sure that they will be acknowledged. Happy Posting!

 

[Krysco]

So I'm super late on joining this thread but here's my introduction:
Name: Krysco (if 6 characters is too much or you don't like the sound of the name ASDL and Pew are also acceptable)
Location: Ontario, Canada
Talents: Being able to sound like Mickey Mouse, Kermit the Frog, Yoda, the old man from Family Guy and working on Donald Duck
Likes: Vidja games, eurobeat moosic, talking like a goofball and many other things I'm too lazy to list
Dislikes: I don't know @.@ first thing that comes to mind is projectile spammers in Smash, namely (note it's the Brawl one)
Goals: I'd like to start Let's Playing sometime soon.
Other facts: I'll just write a whole paragraph for this one =P.

So I consider myself an MK main like most of you though I first went to Ganon since he's been a reliable character for me for 3 games. Not a fan of Gerudo being techable among other things, I still use him but never considered him a 'main' in this game. First main for me was Lucina until I realized Marth is so much better. I would consider myself a Marth main but with customs not being fully legal I don't fully enjoy his moveset. With customs not always being legal I went from Lucina to Dedede and he's my secondary currently. Only reason I picked up MK was because of the match ups I was realizing Dedede was having trouble with. And while I consider myself an MK main I can see I disgrace his good name as I only knew about a few of the combos and follow ups that have been listed in this thread. Gonna have to try them out sometime. I also use a ****load of characters so I got variety going for me =P.

As for the questions I've seen thrown around this thread:
I've never played any Persona game or even seen gameplay of it.
Favourite Kirby game would have to go to Crystal Shards. I love the ability to mix different abilities together and I have nostalgia for it since it was one of my first games.
I can't give much input on either the Toon Link or Sonic mu as my cousin (who is my sparring partner I suppose) doesn't use either and my Wii U is silly and won't connect to the internet here even though my 3DS and computer do just fine. There's also no smash community period where I live. If I were put up against a Toon Link I'd probably go Falco just so I wouldn't have to deal with the projectiles so much. Could see myself going MK against Sonic though.

 

[warionumbah2]

I do hope more MK mains provide input to MU I don't want MK MU to be dead like other character forums. I'll attempt to arrange some matches against Sonics on nintendo dojo for MU experience if I get the time.

 

[Katakiri]

Me too. Stickied the MU thread in hopes of drawing-in more people.

I intend to drop my MU input when I can; it's a busy week for me.
I've fought my fair share of high-level Sonics lately and I'll say now that I think MK vs Sonic is nearly unwinnable for us if skill levels are even. I'm talking 70-30, better pick up R.O.B., bad. But again, I'll explain that nightmare in the MU thread when I get a chance.

 

[Lavani]

What moves does Meta Knight have to take advantage of ledgesnap vulnerability?

I haven't been having luck with getting fsmash (though the frame data suggests it should reach below the ledge? Only 1 active frame's probably throwing me off) or cape to connect, trying to sit in front of the ledge with tornado usually results in an SD, and dsmash's range looks comparable to fsmash with less reward and more end lag so I didn't even try it. Runoff nair is pretty easy to catch ledgesnaps with, but the position it hits at doesn't stagespike (on 3DS Battlefield Ω, anyway) so the reward is questionable. EDIT: Actually I guess it does against lower recoveries, it's horizontal ledgesnaps that don't get stagespiked. Good to know.

 

[Katakiri]

@ Lavani F-Smash is my go-to punish. It can even hit Sheik on the ledge so, as long as you time it correctly, it's your best ledge re-grab punish. If I know they're going to immediately get-up because I pressured them off-stage or something, I'll throw out a nado for damage. But if it isn't a re-grab, I'll space myself so I cover the ledge-get-up and ledge attack options with D-Tilt, roll option with Nado, and the jump option with Up-Air or Shuttle Loop.

On a different but similar note, I'm becoming more weary of who and when I chase off-stage because I realized that my last tourney loss was because I got stage spiked twice and the one before that was because I got meteor smashed. Basically the only reason I haven't won a tourney recently is because I'm too greedy off-stage and someone eventually capitalizes on it. I've changed the tag I use in-game to 'Respect' for now so I remember to respect my opponent's options in the air.

 

[Lavani]

@ Katakiri , I don't mean punishing regrabs, I mean punishing the ledgesnap; characters don't get invincibility until they actually touch the ledge on frame 3 of a ledgesnap, so there's two frames during which you can hit them, like so.

MK's options for punishing whatever they decide to do from on the stage are probably better though. More potential reward and you don't give up stage control.

 

[warionumbah2]

I tend to short hop off stage and use bair, multiple disjoined hitboxes that will force the victim to eat the final hit. Anyone that recovers low will get stage spiked and during those 2 frames of vulnerability one of the hitboxes will connect, nair is harder to time imo and doesn't guarantee a stage spike.

If someone regrabs the ledge i space my down smash so the tip hits them. Or better yet make sure MK is facing away so you can get the stronger second hit in.

I must say the Diddy MU becomes nice once you get them off stage, you don't need to go after him, stay on the ledge and react to what he does accordingly. If he's charging his up b intercept with nair if he's monkey flipping onstage try and get a bair. Even Sheik isn't that scary since we can chain some good combo's together, if we can abuse the ledge vulnerability i think things will go even more smoothly for MK.

 

[busken]

I made a whole thread for people to discuss this :[

You can check it out here if you want: http://smashboards.com/threads/countering-ledge-recovery-options.386458/

 

[Archimedes]

So yeah hey, a new Meta Knight player here. I always loved Meta Knight as a character but hated the fact he was too good in Brawl. I finally decided to pick him up now and I've been doing great with him. At this rate he might be my second best character soon.

Gonna be hanging out around the Meta Knight boards for some tips.

 

[Oblivion129]

Anyone have experience with the Lucario MU? His mechanic makes it weird. I rack up damage and get him to 130%~ or so, and that makes it easier for him to KO me. It's like you're never actually in the lead against him.
It depends on who can KO better, and since he has a counter, aura sphere, force palm, and other beefy KO moves, it becomes pretty hard to land a KO on him. I usually only get KOs by using Dimensional Cape.

A missed DC, Nado, or shuttle loop is easy for Lucario to punish with a Force Palm and KO at 40% or less.

 

[warionumbah2]

If Lucario is at that percent try to punish his laggy moves, if he spaces you out with force palm punish with a dash grab or dash attack. So long as you power shield the beam I think you just need to land those follow ups: Hoo Ha!( down throw to shuttle loop) can kill him before he becomes threat and since you get him at 130% you should easily land this move for a kill.

DC is good at punishing lag such as his recovery animation where he crouches. Its funny how MK own crib is his best stage, the ceiling is so low you can kill people so early because of the low ceiling. Try picking that stage and avoid that DK stage from 64.

 

[Oblivion129]

I manage to punish Lucario with a Dash attack or dash grab but that only adds to his percentage and aura. Downthrow to shuttle loop doesn't work at high percentage with DI but does work earlier.
If I somehow manage to get that early shuttle loop KO, then I have the advantage, otherwise I have to rely on a DC which is really unsafe.
He's also pretty hard to gimp because a good Lucario knows how to curve Extreme Speed to a safe landing, but it's still something I go for.

 

[Golden Sun]

Meta Knight not grabbing the edge while going into freefall mode from a dimensional cape or drill when he's SUPER close and he's backwards is completely ********.

I manage to punish Lucario with a Dash attack or dash grab but that only adds to his percentage and aura. Downthrow to shuttle loop doesn't work at high percentage with DI but does work earlier.
If I somehow manage to get that early shuttle loop KO, then I have the advantage, otherwise I have to rely on a DC which is really unsafe.
He's also pretty hard to gimp because a good Lucario knows how to curve Extreme Speed to a safe landing, but it's still something I go for.

Use the dimensional cape slash when your in the air and he think's your going to fall down, then that's when they might release the aura sphere, it works almost every time for a character whos charging a projectile.