The Marketing Theory: Could the 3DS and Wii U Versions Feature Different Hidden Characters?

[GamerGuy09]

• Villager
• Mega Man
• Wii Fit Trainer
• Rosalina and Luma
• Little Mac
• Greninja
• Mii Fighter
• Palutena
• Pac-Man
• Lucina
• Robin

That's all of them up to this point.

Villager = East

Mega Man = West

Wii Fit Trainer = West?

Rosalina & Luma = East?

Little Mac = West

Greninja = East

Mi Fighter = West?

Palutena = East?

Pac-Man = West

Lucina and Robin = East?

Bandana Dee = We-opps. Did I leave that there?

 

[~Krystal~]

I could consider it with any other companny, but this is nintendo, more importantly this is sakurai, and even more importantly THIS IS SMASH.

They sale games with gameplay, not with random exclusive characters who arent as important as the sacred quartet.

You're underselling the importance of having characters people want to play as. I think this is a very different story when you're trying to convince people to purchase a $300 bundle. You'll want to sweeten the pot as much as you can if you're going to make any kind of convincing argument, especially when these fans already have the 3DS version.

 

[Sobreviviente]

You're underselling the importance of having characters people want to play as.

Actually no, even pokemon is proof that more characters is always a good reason to buy.
But i just dont see it happening in a game like smash, and is even less likely now with the ammibo thing.

They expect us to buy the version that better accomodates to our style of play, or both, not to get all the characters by buying all the versions, and again, amiibos :B people will be pissed off, i dont even see DLCs happening right now.

And not saying is impossible, i just really doubt it could happen.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Honestly, i read the title and sighed. But thankfully, I read this whole thing.

This is genius. The West vs East idea really solidified this for me. Because when we look at the 3DS roster what do we see? Shulk, Dark Pit, Doc. These could be argued as more Eastern than Western characters.

And Sakurai teasing Ridley till Wii U launch is a genius plan.

 

[ChainsOfDusk]

Villager = East

Mega Man = West

Wii Fit Trainer = West?

Rosalina & Luma = East?

Little Mac = West

Greninja = East

Mi Fighter = West?

Palutena = East?

Pac-Man = West

Lucina and Robin = East?

Bandana Dee = We-opps. Did I leave that there?

Mega Man = East/Both? (Have you seen his propaganda in the East? He pretty much IS ssb4 at this point)

Wii Fit Trainer = ??? (This one was unexpected by both audiences)

Rosalina & Luma = East/Both?

Little Mac = West (Hands down, japanese players were so confused about his inclusion, a lot hated him)

Greninja = East

Mii Fighter = Unsure, but I presume East

Palutena = East/Both?

Pac-Man = West

Lucina and Robin = East

At least, that's how I see it.

 

[ChromTroop]

I don't think you understand. The roster's entirety won't be different.

Most of the characters will be the same. This theory considers the idea of using a few hidden unlockable characters to provide more incentive in purchasing both versions---or establishing connections with someone who has the other version. This promotes 3DS-Wii U connectivity.

This is, of course, excluding the DLC possibility I made.

I agree with all of this, its makes a lot of sense. It seems a lot of people dont know how to read properly. dont mind them.

 

[Arcadenik]

Interesting read... this marketing theory makes some sense to me.

 

[Skyblade12]

It works for Pokémon.

 

[Darkraid]

OP's theory make a whole lot of sense. Come on guys, Nintendo has been doing this for years. Version exclusives. I usually buy both Pokemon versions so that I can get everything.

I believe the 3DS roster will lean towards characters whose games comes from the handheld. Link the consoles together for the full roster. This makes perfect sense.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The theory does make sense and one would think that Nintendo would jump on this chance.

However, I don't feel confident in this theory in the slightest.

I think Sakurai meant what he said with no strings attached.

Which is a shame.

These strings are awesome.

 

[Starbound]

Interesting theory to say the least.

So basically, you're proposing something similar to Pokemon (3DS as Characters A, B, C, D and E, while Wii U has Characters V, W, X, Y and Z). Only difference is the cost is about $150 more (Wii U + 3DS + Two games).

I don't buy the East vs. West thing at all though. I'm pretty sure we're the only people who compare Japan's wanted characters vs our own wanted characters.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Excellent read. I see this as a giant troll move, but an ingenious business decision, like you said.

 

[Darkraid]

I think this article deserves a good read. I think having different stages in different version aren't enough incentive for people to buy the 3DS versions. Early or exclusive access to characters will make a lot of different.

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/52857/is-smash-bros-3ds-a-good-thing-for-the-series/

 

[Skyblade12]

I think this article deserves a good read. I think having different stages in different version aren't enough incentive for people to buy the 3DS versions. Early or exclusive access to characters will make a lot of different.

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/52857/is-smash-bros-3ds-a-good-thing-for-the-series/

How about the fact that seven times as many people already own a 3DS? Is not having to buy a $150 system "incentive enough"?

 

[ThatPersonGuy]

I'd say that some characters are obviously going to have to be for both versions, Mii Fighter in particular because they're sort of a big deal for everyone.

The only problem I see with this theory is that, should it be true, we're looking at a newcomer roster as large if not larger than SSBB, which doesn't really line up with what Sakurai's been telling us.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

I'd say that some characters are obviously going to have to be for both versions, Mii Fighter in particular because they're sort of a big deal for everyone.

The only problem I see with this theory is that, should it be true, we're looking at a newcomer roster as large if not larger than SSBB, which doesn't really line up with what Sakurai's been telling us.

If you count each newcomer individually (including Pokemon Trainer Pokemon), we had 18 of them in Brawl. So far we have 11 in Sm4sh---13 if you count them individually (3 different Mii Fighters).

The following is inference/guessing:

I'm willing to bet that the team for Sm4sh is bigger than Brawl's---especially since there are multiple companies in on the development (like Sakurai's team, and Bandai Namco). Also, there probably isn't something like the Subspace Emissary that takes up half of the game's data like there was in Brawl.

Yet, there's the fact that there are two versions of Smash being simultaneously worked on---which would inevitably take more developmental time.

Call me crazy, but I could conceivably see us getting somewhere between 18-22 newcomers in Sm4sh.

Will it happen? I'm not saying it will---just that I could see it happening, depending on how everything pans out.

But yes, I agree with the first point entirely. I'd assume that most, if not all of the characters known before the 3DS launch will be available to both versions.

 

[Johnknight1]

It should be very clear that once you unlock characters in Smash 3DS you shouldn't have to do that in Smash WiiU (via connection of the two).

The only way I see there being "hidden characters" past that are ones not in Smash 3DS at release that are planned for later.

 

[Skyblade12]

Didn't Sakurai say it's very unlikely that we would get more newcomers than we did in Brawl?

 

[TheRandomCities4]

Didn't Sakurai say it's very unlikely that we would get more newcomers than we did in Brawl?

I think that's the Rumor Effect applying over when Sakurai said "when planning for Smash, I always set a base for 20 characters; that's how I view the maximum size for any Smash roster".

However, Sakurai wasn't referring to newcomers. He was referring to the whole roster. Specifically, he was referring to the amount of work that could take place, character-wise, without all of these extra variables.

The extra variables include, but aren't limited to: team size, team effort, contributions from other companies, etc.

In a sense, anything could happen, due to these extra variables.

 

[Bravetriforcer]

I think that's the Rumor Effect applying over when Sakurai said "when planning for Smash, I always set a base for 20 characters; that's how I view the maximum size for any Smash roster".

However, Sakurai wasn't referring to newcomers. He was referring to the whole roster. Specifically, he was referring to the amount of work that could take place, character-wise, without all of these extra variables.

The extra variables include, but aren't limited to: team size, team effort, contributions from other companies, etc.

In a sense, anything could happen, due to these extra variables.

And a team of 200+ industry veterans who practically specialize in fighting games is certainly a notable variable.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

And a team of 200+ industry veterans who practically specialize in fighting games is certainly a notable variable.

Not to mention the rumored ~80 employees hired for something called "Smash Bros. 6".

 

[Johnknight1]

And a team of 200+ industry veterans who practically specialize in fighting games is certainly a notable variable.

Eh some of them specialize in fight games.

The Bamco staff have staff from all over Bamco. Some specialize in fighting games, other platformers, other RPG's, and other genres.

Hopefully this doesn't backfire like Brawl with Game Arts and the other 12 or more companies involved, lol.

 

[SwagzillaForilla]

@ TheRandomCities4 , there was something else I noticed while looking at the ESRB leak. With the leak, we now know most if not all of the stages on the 3DS version, along with the stages that have already been confirmed on the Wii U version. I noticed that there may be a direct correlation between new stages and newcomers.

Spoiler

For reference:

3DS stages:

Wii U stages:
http://smashbros-miiverse.com/stages/wiiu

Let's look at which major series are confirmed to have a new stage on both the 3DS and Wii U versions:

Mario: Golden Plains, 3D Land, Paper Mario, Rainbow Road, Mario Galaxy, Mushroom Kingdom U
Pokémon: Prism Tower, N's Castle, Kalos Pokémon League
The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Train, Gerudo Valley, Skyloft
Animal Crossing: Tortimer Island, Town and City
Fire Emblem: Arena Ferox, Coliseum
Kid Icarus: Reset Bomb Forest, Palutena's Temple
Pac-Man: Pac-Maze, Pac-Land
Punch Out!!: Boxing Ring (one new stage, both versions)
Mega Man: Dr. Wiley's Castle (one new stage, both versions)


Now lets look at all the series with no new stages on the 3DS version, but only returning stages:

Donkey Kong: Jungle Japes (Melee), ???
Metroid: Brinstar (Melee), Pyrosphere
Star Fox: Corneria (Melee), Great Fox
Yoshi: Yoshi's Island (Brawl), ???
Pikmin: Distant Planet (Brawl), Garden of Hope
Sonic: Green Hill Zone (Brawl), Windy Hill
Wario: Warioware (Brawl), ???
Game & Watch: Flatzone 2 (Brawl), ???
Kirby: Dreamland, Halberd (Brawl) (Kirby's situation is the opposite: a new stage on the 3DS, but a returning stage on the Wii U)


Now, there are a few discrepancies. Namely...

• The Legend of Zelda hasn't had a newcomer reveal (yet), despite having 3 unique stages
• The Wii Fit Trainer doesn't have a 3DS stage
• Duck Hunt doesn't have a 3DS stage

I'm sure you've already noticed, but none of the major series without a new stage on the 3DS version (barring WFT and DH) have had a newcomer. This could mean nothing, or it could mean everything--no one knows for sure. But I'm inclined to believe that this points to the ESRB leak being the final roster (as sad as that is).

 

[TheRandomCities4]

@ TheRandomCities4 , there was something else I noticed while looking at the ESRB leak. With the leak, we now know most if not all of the stages on the 3DS version, along with the stages that have already been confirmed on the Wii U version. I noticed that there may be a direct correlation between new stages and newcomers.

Spoiler

For reference:

3DS stages:

Wii U stages:
http://smashbros-miiverse.com/stages/wiiu

Let's look at which major series are confirmed to have a new stage on both the 3DS and Wii U versions:

Mario: Golden Plains, 3D Land, Paper Mario, Rainbow Road, Mario Galaxy, Mushroom Kingdom U
Pokémon: Prism Tower, N's Castle, Kalos Pokémon League
The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Train, Gerudo Valley, Skyloft
Animal Crossing: Tortimer Island, Town and City
Fire Emblem: Arena Ferox, Coliseum
Kid Icarus: Reset Bomb Forest, Palutena's Temple
Pac-Man: Pac-Maze, Pac-Land
Punch Out!!: Boxing Ring (one new stage, both versions)
Mega Man: Dr. Wiley's Castle (one new stage, both versions)


Now lets look at all the series with no new stages on the 3DS version, but only returning stages:

Donkey Kong: Jungle Japes (Melee), ???
Metroid: Brinstar (Melee), Pyrosphere
Star Fox: Corneria (Melee), Great Fox
Yoshi: Yoshi's Island (Brawl), ???
Pikmin: Distant Planet (Brawl), Garden of Hope
Sonic: Green Hill Zone (Brawl), Windy Hill
Wario: Warioware (Brawl), ???
Game & Watch: Flatzone 2 (Brawl), ???
Kirby: Dreamland, Halberd (Brawl) (Kirby's situation is the opposite: a new stage on the 3DS, but a returning stage on the Wii U)


Now, there are a few discrepancies. Namely...

• The Legend of Zelda hasn't had a newcomer reveal (yet), despite having 3 unique stages
• The Wii Fit Trainer doesn't have a 3DS stage
• Duck Hunt doesn't have a 3DS stage

I'm sure you've already noticed, but none of the major series without a new stage on the 3DS version (barring WFT and DH) have had a newcomer. This could mean nothing, or it could mean everything--no one knows for sure. But I'm inclined to believe that this points to the ESRB leak being the final roster (as sad as that is).

Sadly, that could be the case. I won't deny that.

Although, I still say we wait until the marketing theory is either fully/partially confirmed or debunked to say one way or the other for sure.

I honestly hope it isn't the case.

Now, I don't normally play the pathos card due to not wanting to appear provocative, but...

*serious mode: on*

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Pathos card:

Everyone who supports a Metroid/Star Fox/Legend of Zelda/Kirby/Donkey Kong newcomer better pray that something like the marketing theory comes true---else this is all we're getting.

There is absolutely nothing that concretely disproves any of these 3DS playtester leaks.

The only other possibility is with standalone DLC for both versions.

If both of these things don't happen, then we're all SOL. End of story. Like I said, I can theorize no other possibility. It's all of our last bastion.

Unless anyone else is willing to spend weeks theorizing possibilities and another 5-8 hours constructing a post to give people hope, then you might wanna consider supporting this marketing theory, or at least try to understand it.


Must I bring up the Brawl "35 character roster with ROB" leak situation again? If anyone has been on these threads just before Brawl was released, they will remember what are known as "the darkest days in Smash history". Only this time, it will be much worse...

No new Star Fox, Metroid, Legend of Zelda, Donkey Kong, and Kirby characters.

Not only that, but I think people will take the inclusion of two new Mario characters sourly, especially if all of these other franchises don't receive any newcomers.

EDIT: If this comes out to be the case, I hope we enjoy waiting roughly another decade before being able to support our wanted characters again! HA!

Oh wait, that is, of course, IF Sakurai/Nintendo wants to make another Smash in the future...

/Pathos card

I don't think some people fully understand how fragile and dire the position that the Star Fox/Metroid/Donkey Kong/Kirby/Legend of Zelda franchises are in---newcomer-wise.

It's not as blissful as some people might make it out to be.

 

[ChainsOfDusk]

Sadly, that could be the case. I won't deny that.

Although, I still say we wait until the marketing theory is either fully/partially confirmed or debunked to say one way or the other for sure.

I honestly hope it isn't the case.

Now, I don't normally play the pathos card due to not wanting to appear provocative, but...

*serious mode: on*

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Pathos card:

Everyone who supports a Metroid/Star Fox/Legend of Zelda/Kirby/Donkey Kong newcomer better pray that something like the marketing theory comes true---else this is all we're getting.

There is absolutely nothing that concretely disproves any of these 3DS playtester leaks.

The only other possibility is with standalone DLC for both versions.

If both of these things don't happen, then we're all SOL. End of story. Like I said, I can theorize no other possibility. It's all of our last bastion.

Unless anyone else is willing to spend weeks theorizing possibilities and another 5-8 hours constructing a post to give people hope, then you might wanna consider supporting this marketing theory, or at least try to understand it.


Must I bring up the Brawl "35 character roster with ROB" leak situation again? If anyone has been on these threads just before Brawl was released, they will remember what are known as "the darkest days in Smash history". Only this time, it will be much worse...

No new Star Fox, Metroid, Legend of Zelda, Donkey Kong, and Kirby characters.

Not only that, but I think people will take the inclusion of two new Mario characters sourly, especially if all of these other franchises don't receive any newcomers.

EDIT: If this comes out to be the case, I hope we enjoy waiting roughly another decade before being able to support our wanted characters again! HA!

Oh wait, that is, of course, IF Sakurai/Nintendo wants to make another Smash in the future...

/Pathos card

I don't think some people fully understand how fragile and dire the position that the Star Fox/Metroid/Donkey Kong/Kirby/Legend of Zelda franchises are in---newcomer-wise.

It's not as blissful as some people might make it out to be.

Agreed entirely, if this ESRB leak is true (and there is no DLC / other hidden characters beyond this), I'll be infuriated. For me that'll make two SSB games that did not have characters from series I supported, that also were demanded and popular, present within the final roster. I honestly hope this theory has truth in it, because it would mark the first time a SSB game came up and I did not buy it ( I want to support Nintendo as a company, but if the ESRB leak roster is the roster we get, forget it).

 

[TheRandomCities4]

@ TheRandomCities4 , there was something else I noticed while looking at the ESRB leak. With the leak, we now know most if not all of the stages on the 3DS version, along with the stages that have already been confirmed on the Wii U version. I noticed that there may be a direct correlation between new stages and newcomers.

Spoiler

For reference:

3DS stages:

Wii U stages:
http://smashbros-miiverse.com/stages/wiiu

Let's look at which major series are confirmed to have a new stage on both the 3DS and Wii U versions:

Mario: Golden Plains, 3D Land, Paper Mario, Rainbow Road, Mario Galaxy, Mushroom Kingdom U
Pokémon: Prism Tower, N's Castle, Kalos Pokémon League
The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Train, Gerudo Valley, Skyloft
Animal Crossing: Tortimer Island, Town and City
Fire Emblem: Arena Ferox, Coliseum
Kid Icarus: Reset Bomb Forest, Palutena's Temple
Pac-Man: Pac-Maze, Pac-Land
Punch Out!!: Boxing Ring (one new stage, both versions)
Mega Man: Dr. Wiley's Castle (one new stage, both versions)


Now lets look at all the series with no new stages on the 3DS version, but only returning stages:

Donkey Kong: Jungle Japes (Melee), ???
Metroid: Brinstar (Melee), Pyrosphere
Star Fox: Corneria (Melee), Great Fox
Yoshi: Yoshi's Island (Brawl), ???
Pikmin: Distant Planet (Brawl), Garden of Hope
Sonic: Green Hill Zone (Brawl), Windy Hill
Wario: Warioware (Brawl), ???
Game & Watch: Flatzone 2 (Brawl), ???
Kirby: Dreamland, Halberd (Brawl) (Kirby's situation is the opposite: a new stage on the 3DS, but a returning stage on the Wii U)


Now, there are a few discrepancies. Namely...

• The Legend of Zelda hasn't had a newcomer reveal (yet), despite having 3 unique stages
• The Wii Fit Trainer doesn't have a 3DS stage
• Duck Hunt doesn't have a 3DS stage

I'm sure you've already noticed, but none of the major series without a new stage on the 3DS version (barring WFT and DH) have had a newcomer. This could mean nothing, or it could mean everything--no one knows for sure. But I'm inclined to believe that this points to the ESRB leak being the final roster (as sad as that is).

"When life gives you lemons..."

Wait a minute!

Look carefully at the stages on the supposed 3DS stage selection screen leak.

Yes, it's true that none of the major franchises without a new stage on the 3DS version (barring WFT and DH) have had a newcomer.

But it could point, considering the stage tease possibility, towards these franchises having hidden newcomers on the Wii U version---just as the marketing theory suggests! These franchises are not the incentive focus of the 3DS version's sales! So...

In a way, the marketing theory may rely on this?!

What if these franchises all get a new stage on only the Wii U version---to be revealed/detailed when Sakurai updates us about the Wii U version, after the 3DS version's launch---that tease towards their newcomers?

This is good for Metroid, Donkey Kong, and Star Fox. They could be in the clear---regarding the theory's idea of Wii U hidden unlockables.

As for The Legend of Zelda, it has new stages on both versions. This is a discrepancy. Perhaps it's explained with the 'ol Trophy Theory? Anyone remember that? There were two trophies that potentially coincided with the reveals of Palutena and Robin/Lucina. There were also two other trophies, one from Metroid and one from Legend of Zelda. Not only that, but both of these trophies, under the marketing theory, could hint towards their franchise newcomers' inclusion as hidden unlockable characters in the Wii U version. Trophy-Tease-wise, that would make it 2 and 2. 2 with a heavier Eastern influence, and 2 with a heavier Western influence.

The Legend of Zelda is the only strong discrepancy, and it is the only other franchise to have a trophy appear in the Smash direct. This discrepancy could seal the gap of the trophy theory as well, in this light! #PuzzlePiecesComingTogether

As for Kirby, I wouldn't worry that much. I feel it could still get a new stage on the Wii U version, along with the version-designated hidden unlockable character. This is Sakurai's own franchise, after all.

In the end, this could strengthen the marketing theory, this way.

I'm amending this to the OP as EDIT #9.

 

[SwagzillaForilla]

"When life gives you lemons..."

Wait a minute!

Look carefully at the stages on the supposed 3DS stage selection screen leak.

Yes, it's true that none of the major franchises without a new stage on the 3DS version (barring WFT and DH) have had a newcomer.

But it could point, considering the stage tease possibility, towards these franchises having hidden newcomers on the Wii U version---just as the marketing theory suggests! These franchises are not the incentive focus of the 3DS version's sales! So...

What if these franchises all get a new stage on only the Wii U version---to be revealed/detailed when Sakurai updates us about the Wii U version, after the 3DS version's launch---that tease towards their newcomers?

This is good for Metroid, Donkey Kong, and Star Fox. They could be in the clear---regarding the theory's idea of Wii U hidden unlockables.

As for The Legend of Zelda, it has new stages on both versions. This is a discrepancy. Perhaps it's explained with the 'ol Trophy Theory? Anyone remember that? There were two trophies that potentially coincided with the reveals of Palutena and Robin/Lucina. There were also two other trophies, one from Metroid and one from Legend of Zelda. Not only that, but both of these trophies, under the marketing theory, could hint towards their franchise newcomers' inclusion as hidden unlockable characters in the Wii U version. Trophy-Tease-wise, that would make it 2 and 2. 2 with a heavier Eastern influence, and 2 with a heavier Western influence.

The Legend of Zelda is the only strong discrepancy, and it is the only other franchise to have a trophy appear in the Smash direct. This discrepancy could seal the gap of the trophy theory, in this light!

As for Kirby, I wouldn't worry that much. I feel it could still get a new stage on the Wii U version, along with the version-designated hidden unlockable character. This is Sakurai's own franchise, after all.

In the end, this could strengthen the marketing theory, this way.

I'm amending this to the OP as EDIT #9.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

As for most of the franchises that have new stages on both versions, these are the franchises that have characters that will appear readily on both versions. These are pretty much, if not all of the characters that have been revealed before the 3DS version's release---which agrees with the marketing theory.

This gap of new stages, coinciding directly with the franchises currently missing newcomers due to possible marketing incentive, could be filled with the Wii U version's information! Hence, putting the pieces of the puzzle together.

This could be huge!

Could Sakurai do it...?

Could Sakurai cover all bases? Female characters, characters with heavier Eastern influence, characters with heavier Western influence...

Might we have physical evidence based on the 3DS stage selection screen...?

Let's consider the situation from an alternate perspective:

It wouldn't make sense---under the marketing theory and stage tease theory together (or apart for that matter)---for these franchises that might include hidden unlockable characters on the Wii U version to receive new stages on the 3DS version. This is because, as the marketing theory suggests, these franchises aren't going to be used as marketing incentive for the 3DS version, but rather the Wii U version! Save their stages to garner attention for the Wii U version! Genius!

 

[Mic_128]

Sakurai never clarified exactly that the rosters would be the same in the beginning. He only said that they'd be the same. Thus, this theory remains possible.

Nintendo never clarified exactly that Smash Bros would be the exclusive to 3DS and WiiU in the beginning. They only said that they'd be the exclusive on 3DS and WiiU. Thus, the theory that Smash Bros will be released on XBox 1, PS4 and Vita is totally possible.

If you seriously think that, because they didn't explicitly say something was not happening and just said it wasn't in a blanket statement, it still means that maybe it could still happen.

No does not mean yes.