The Japanese Ledge Grab rule

[AlphaZealot]

Again, the entire point of this rule is simply to use in place of the "no planking" rule already widely used on the East Coast. The "no planking" rule is basically unenforceable and a headache to deal with. From a rule standpoint, while the intent is clear, the rule is poorly crafted. This rule is a replacement for that rule. It is not making a statement that planking/edge play should be banned, but instead that if you want to limit such things then AT LEAST DO IT PROPERLY.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

Okay Zealot I obviously was wrong and didn't respond appropriately.... but


is it just me or does it seem dumb to have to put a limit on the amount of times you can grab a ledge? whats next a limit on how many times you can fair in a game?

which do u think would be worse... having a limit (that you will probably never exceed) on the amount of times you can grab the ledge... or having a mk/DK hit you 3 times and then run to the ledge and never leave for 7 minutes? Have fun with your choice

 

[Veng]

which do u think would be worse... having a limit (that you will probably never exceed) on the amount of times you can grab the ledge... or having a mk/DK hit you 3 times and then run to the ledge and never leave for 7 minutes?

I main MK so...

Again, the entire point of this rule is simply to use in place of the "no planking" rule already widely used on the East Coast. The "no planking" rule is basically unenforceable and a headache to deal with. From a rule standpoint, while the intent is clear, the rule is poorly crafted. This rule is a replacement for that rule. It is not making a statement that planking/edge play should be banned, but instead that if you want to limit such things then AT LEAST DO IT PROPERLY.

Okay Gotcha. Doesn't sound as bad as I originally made it out to be, sorry for my lameness.

 

[Schwaumlaut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I24bP2akQVc&feature=channel_page

Someone tally up the ledgegrabs per stock in this match.

I dont feel like it.

I counted 54 for MK, but I might have missed a few. It was at least 32 on the first stock, and fewer after MK fell behind and had to approach. If he had gotten ahead instead of losing a stock, I think it would be reasonable to expect 70~90.

 

[OverLade]

I counted 54 for MK, but I might have missed a few. It was at least 32 on the first stock, and fewer after MK fell behind and had to approach. If he had gotten ahead instead of losing a stock, I think it would be reasonable to expect 70~90.

Exactly why this rule is legit. The japenese obviously did some experimentation before choosing 70.

 

[AlphaZealot]

They apparently also use 10 minute time limits. Which means we should use like, 50-60 edge grab limits.

 

[Veng]

10 Minutes?

8 Minute matches are already full of campyness and not moving characters in the US, wow.

 

[pockyD]

well in reality, longer time limit = less direct campiness in the playstyle (though more camping time-wise)

if you're one-minute from winning a match by timing out, you're more likely to camp. On the other hand, if you're 5 minutes from doing so, you are less likely to camp

 

[Turbo Ether]

Japanese tournaments must last forever. Imagine 10 minute time limit being used at CoT4.

 

[M@v]

Japanese tournaments must last forever. Imagine 10 minute time limit being used at CoT4.

*still playing @ 10 minute matches @ CoT4 in an alternate dimension*

 

[JonaDiaper]

the rule should be if you can count how many times they recovered, and guess or be correct at the end of the match, then they lose.. lol

unless its obvious shino stalling or planking or whatever you wanna call it then it shouldnt count.

this isnt like the UFC where you need to make rules because something dangerous can happen, its a game.

plus, whens the last time you saw anyone purposely stall a match that actually mattered?

 

[OverLade]

the rule should be if you can count how many times they recovered, and guess or be correct at the end of the match, then they lose.. lol

unless its obvious shino stalling or planking or whatever you wanna call it then it shouldnt count.

this isnt like the UFC where you need to make rules because something dangerous can happen, its a game.

plus, whens the last time you saw anyone purposely stall a match that actually mattered?

People ONLY stall matter if they matches. People NEVER ledgecamp in small tourneys etc....

 

[JonaDiaper]

People ONLY stall matter if they matches. People NEVER ledgecamp in small tourneys etc....

can you give me a video, no older then a year old, of a major tourney were youve seen ledge stalling?

and lol "matter if they matches" lmao

 

[ftl]

can you give me a video, no older then a year old, of a major tourney were youve seen ledge stalling?

and lol "matter if they matches" lmao

The set that gave "Planking" its name - Plank vs SK92. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phRs10GVwvg .

 

[JonaDiaper]

The set that gave "Planking" its name - Plank vs SK92. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phRs10GVwvg .

oh im sorry, we're talking about brawl?
lol nevermind
i thought we were talking about a higher level of competition.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

theres no need for that first of all

secondly obviously its about brawl, its too hard to actually ledge camp in melee and win.

 

[OverLade]

oh im sorry, we're talking about brawl?
lol nevermind
i thought we were talking about a higher level of competition.

I think you're definetly in the wrong thread in that case.

The melee cemetary is at a different website.

 

[xX-LeaF-Xx]

I think that this rule shouldn't be needed in the first place.

 

[pockyD]

its too hard to actually ledge camp in melee and win.

I don't know; mew2king's been pulling it off for a while now

 

[JonaDiaper]

theres no need for that first of all

secondly obviously its about brawl, its too hard to actually ledge camp in melee and win.

well i dont see any "brawl" in

Smash World Forums » Smash Tournaments » Tournament Discussion »

so i dont understand how this is "obviously brawl"

I think you're definetly in the wrong thread in that case.

The melee cemetary is at a different website.

you joined in 06 lmao

my guess is you werent that good in melee.

to stay on topic, were not in japan, if they used items would that mean we would too? just cuz its japenese? nope. plus ken beat japans best. THEY should take OUR rules.

 

[BentoBox]

you joined in 07 lmao

my guess is you werent that good in melee.

to stay on topic, were in america, if we used items they should too. just cus its american ? yes. plus ken beat japans best. Our rules can't possibly be flawed.

 

[JonaDiaper]

lol canadians

whats really good canada

come to revival on the 7th =]

to stay on topic

no our rules are not flawed, i dont see anyone trying to change them constantly
its not like the articles or confederation were theyre so bad they need to be reformed.

the biggest change ive seen theyve been trying to make has to do with counterpicks.
and they havent done anything about it..

everything is fine the way it is. if someone is excessively stalling, they forfeit, lose w/e

using the game to count how many time they grabbed the edge is stupid
thats like saying if you nair'd more the 20 times you forfeit.

how about people like bowser in melee? they love to grab the edge, especially on yoshis story.

people should stop complaining and just play with the rules that are already set.

mostly its the people that lose that want to change rules.

even tho i agree the match with plank and sk92 was too much, stuff like that should be made so that the person do it forfeit. but putting a limit on how many times you grab the ledge is stupid.

you know what? just do it lol

normal players wont be affected anyways, if your playing like an idoit you deserve to have the match taken from you. theres plenty of stupid rules anyways, like the mewtwo soul stunner thing
how is anyone supposed to do that if theyre no items on? lmao

 

[pockyD]

whoooooosh

 

[JonaDiaper]

.... i wrote that?

lol sleepy

 

[Count]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I24bP2akQVc&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

sorry if this has already been posted, I haven't read most of the thread, but watch this vid. The MK STILL did not reach 70 ledgegrabs. I counted 65 and my counting couldn't have been off by 5. That shows that it would be nearly impossible to legitimately grab the ledge 70 times in one match.

 

[Shin Ike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I24bP2akQVc&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

sorry if this has already been posted, I haven't read most of the thread, but watch this vid. The MK STILL did not reach 70 ledgegrabs. I counted 65 and my counting couldn't have been off by 5. That shows that it would be nearly impossible to legitimately grab the ledge 70 times in one match.

It's already been proven even though it shouldn't have needed to be. Just by using plain common sense you would assume that one wouldn't think it possible to LEGITIMATELY grab the ledge 70 times. (as in recovery purposes).

 

[Plairnkk]

i joined in 2006 and was pretty good at melee, ty very much

 

[OverLade]

lol canadians

whats really good canada

come to revival on the 7th =]

to stay on topic

no our rules are not flawed, i dont see anyone trying to change them constantly
its not like the articles or confederation were theyre so bad they need to be reformed.

the biggest change ive seen theyve been trying to make has to do with counterpicks.
and they havent done anything about it..

everything is fine the way it is. if someone is excessively stalling, they forfeit, lose w/e

using the game to count how many time they grabbed the edge is stupid
thats like saying if you nair'd more the 20 times you forfeit.

how about people like bowser in melee? they love to grab the edge, especially on yoshis story.

people should stop complaining and just play with the rules that are already set.

mostly its the people that lose that want to change rules.

even tho i agree the match with plank and sk92 was too much, stuff like that should be made so that the person do it forfeit. but putting a limit on how many times you grab the ledge is stupid.

you know what? just do it lol

normal players wont be affected anyways, if your playing like an idoit you deserve to have the match taken from you. theres plenty of stupid rules anyways, like the mewtwo soul stunner thing
how is anyone supposed to do that if theyre no items on? lmao

If people said that about the constitution where would the United state be today?

Why do they release patches in other fighting games/Halo etc...

Melee is irelevant to this. And people only speak against planking because it's too good. Nairing isn't too good. Laser camping isn't too good, but planking is.

And WTF why would you prefer having to call a judge over to decide "hey you forfeit cuz ur planking" over a simple rule that gets rid of the problem. That could cause serious ambiguity, as some people would say "HEY YOU'RE PLANKING" when they weren't necessarily doing it.

PLANKING CAN'T BE DEFINED, that's why this rule is a hundred times better. Your post proved me right.

 

[JonaDiaper]

If people said that about the constitution where would the United state be today?

Why do they release patches in other fighting games/Halo etc...

Melee is irelevant to this. And people only speak against planking because it's too good. Nairing isn't too good. Laser camping isn't too good, but planking is.

And WTF why would you prefer having to call a judge over to decide "hey you forfeit cuz ur planking" over a simple rule that gets rid of the problem. That could cause serious ambiguity, as some people would say "HEY YOU'RE PLANKING" when they weren't necessarily doing it.

PLANKING CAN'T BE DEFINED, that's why this rule is a hundred times better. Your post proved me right.

i would rather have a ref come over to me and tell me that my opponent forfeits then playing a 7-8 minute match with a noob who wants to camp at the edge. do you know how much longer matches are gonna take if you wait till the end to see how any freakin times you grabbed the edge? planking is not too good. if that was true then so is camping, because basically its the same thing.

answer to planking = standing at the other edge. if people wanna be idiots then dont fall into their trap and be one yourself. planking can be defined as edge camping. heavy edge camping, and only going up off it because your not in the lead.

screw the 70 grabs, just get a ref.

 

[Plairnkk]

do u not realize that the whole point is that you CANT stand at the other edge because you're LOSING?

 

[MyNiggaNameDante]

its a stupid idea

 

[JonaDiaper]

do u not realize that the whole point is that you CANT stand at the other edge because you're LOSING?

and this is where the excessive camping comes in to play and you auto-lose for playing like a ******. seriously, why would you do that, cuz its "smart"

thats stupid, gay stupid. thats worse then like teh spammerer on poke floats.

i disapprove. and also

im sure youve all read this..

if you see someone who gets a % lead in a match and tries to win the match by stalling at the ledge, giving him a huge unfair advantage over his opponent, BAN IT. Even if you never saw this before, I am telling you from experience that it happens, and it's really ********. BAN IT. Make a rule so that they have to touch the ground at least once every 10 seconds from the point of which they grab the ledge, or an even better idea is to have the option of having a judge (like a tourney host or someone trustworthy, I recommend the tourney host) to be called over to the TV. Sheik and Jiggs could easily win matches in Melee this way, but everyone was too honorable to do it, because that ruins the point of the game, which is to be a fun FIGHTING game. Do you want people to travel to go to tourneys just to see THAT?

for those of you that aren't experienced in smash tourneys, this is a very cheap way to win, it's makes the game not fun to play... it doesn't even make it a game anymore, but rather an EXPLOITATION OF THE RULES. I remember Plank doing this to Eggm last year and him winning 2 tourney sets over him when he got a % lead. It's not to say he wouldn't have won, but it was done in a really dumb, boring way, giving a big advantage for no good reason. I tried this in 1 friendly vs chu dat last year sheik vs ICs in a friendly, I got a small % lead after shooting a needle then I ledge camped the rest of the time. Regardless if this was a friendly or not, I ended up 3 stocking him, while normally fighting properly it would be really close and at that time I probably would lose. King was ledge camping vs Forward in an OC3 match and Forward then said "that's all you have to do to win" and King responded with "yeah, it is" but since King is an honorable player, he finished the match properly by actual fighting.

Ledge Stalling needs to be banned, every Tourney Host needs to make sure that there is a ruleset that should have either 1) a 10 second rule for touching the ground of the stage or 2) a judge can be called over to prevent this from happening

there is no positive effect of allowing this at tourneys, all it does is ruin the game completely. We need to draw a line or else this won't even be a GAME anmore. And as far as I'm concerned, I like FIGHTING my opponents. Unless you want the future to be really boring and gay, I suggest you listen to my advice. Doing this will literally RUIN smash, so if you have any honor at ALL you should never resort to this.

Thanks for your time, and please do listen. I enjoy FIGHTING my opponents.

The sooner you do this the better, and remember - it can't hurt to be playing it safe, this will only help.

look at the first post in that thread lol.

seriously i would just un plug my controller and walk out, and i would be like gimmie my money back. because wtf man.

do you need the money that bad?

 

[OverLade]

and this is where the excessive camping comes in to play and you auto-lose for playing like a ******. seriously, why would you do that, cuz its "smart"

Needs moar scrub mntality.

Seriously, which is more fair? Being DQed by the vague decision by a tourney host who hasn't even seen the whole match, or a rule based on statistics and solid evidence.

At what point will the judge decide you should be DQed? 10 grabs in a row? 20 grabs in a row? 5 grabs in a row? How do you define ledgecamping? You CANT.

I guarantee nobody has EVER been DQed for Ledgecamping by a judge at a legit tourney.

thats stupid, gay stupid. thats worse then like teh spammerer on poke floats.

Teh Spammerer on Pokefloats isn't even cheap. You can't compare it to ledgecamping because it's far more beatable.

seriously i would just un plug my controller and walk out, and i would be like gimmie my money back. because wtf man.

do you need the money that bad?

Who looks like an idiot when u walk out of the room empty handed and Plank walks out with 2,000.

 

[JonaDiaper]

Needs moar scrub mntality.

Seriously, which is more fair? Being DQed by the vague decision by a tourney host who hasn't even seen the whole match, or a rule based on statistics and solid evidence.

At what point will the judge decide you should be DQed? 10 grabs in a row? 20 grabs in a row? 5 grabs in a row? How do you define ledgecamping? You CANT.

I guarantee nobody has EVER been DQed for Ledgecamping by a judge at a legit tourney.



Teh Spammerer on Pokefloats isn't even cheap. You can't compare it to ledgecamping because it's far more beatable.

Who looks like an idiot when u walk out of the room empty handed and Plank walks out with 2,000.

lololololol anyone that had to play plank would do the same thing so it would be like 100 dollars lmao

anyways if you think teh spammerer on floats isnt cheap the lol @ youu hahaha

how do you define ledge camping? wtf is this rocket science? LEDGE CAMPING

ohh ok. this is like mechanics, everything is EXACTLY AS ITS CALLED

your on the ledge constantly moving only to refresh your invincibility. or doing a ledge hop move and going right back to the ledge. camping on the ledge son its simple

holy crap

and to your whats more fair question, i say a ref follow the matches were people are know to do that kind of bs

 

[OverLade]

lololololol anyone that had to play plank would do the same thing so it would be like 100 dollars lmao

anyways if you think teh spammerer on floats isnt cheap the lol @ youu hahaha

how do you define ledge camping? wtf is this rocket science? LEDGE CAMPING

ohh ok. this is like mechanics, everything is EXACTLY AS ITS CALLED

your on the ledge constantly moving only to refresh your invincibility. or doing a ledge hop move and going right back to the ledge. camping on the ledge son its simple

holy crap

and to your whats more fair question, i say a ref follow the matches were people are know to do that kind of bs

At what point does it become ledgecamping was the question, obviously.

When does the judge decide..."HEY, YOU'RE D/Qed now, goodbye". The judge can't watch the whole match because you'd need a judge sitting at every setup. It makes no sense.

 

[JonaDiaper]

At what point does it become ledgecamping was the question, obviously.

When does the judge decide..."HEY, YOU'RE D/Qed now, goodbye". The judge can't watch the whole match because you'd need a judge sitting at every setup. It makes no sense.

at what point? yo you watched the freakin plank videos, you can tell when enough is enough, when you step over the line. that is obvious. it shouldnt be something set, it should be set on opinion kinda...like how there different judges, you feel me? like judge judy, joe brown, mathis, hatchett. like you know judy is mean, hatchett is a nice one if im right. you get me tho?

anyways, there doesnt need to be a ref or judge at every set-up, like i said, just someone watching the people that are know for this type of stuff. or if theyre asked to be there. its not that complicated. have like 5 trusted people to ref/judge, you wont even need them all.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

oye first of all spammer isnt cheep. he knows how to exploit fox's gun, and on which stages. Also if you had any sense at all you would know that ledge camping isnt even a problem in melee. no such problem exists in melee. camping isnt cheap, its a strategy. sure its gay, but this **** is cheap. you can beat campers, you cant beat this ****.

for good measure, this rule needs to be implemented...only at like 35...or osmething..lol i dont know i dont play this game.

 

[JonaDiaper]

im not talking about melee, im talking about brawl.

and to the spammerer comment, you know its cheap son, its no strategy. run away laser = strategy?

i thought strategies were made over a period of time, examining, watchin videos and stuff an looking for weakness.

in the ufc people have strategies, they study the tapes and work on specific stuff for months.

if spammerer was in the ufc he would like run up kick and run away, thats not a strategy.

 

[OverLade]

at what point? yo you watched the freakin plank videos, you can tell when enough is enough, when you step over the line. that is obvious. it shouldnt be something set, it should be set on opinion kinda...like how there different judges, you feel me? like judge judy, joe brown, mathis, hatchett. like you know judy is mean, hatchett is a nice one if im right. you get me tho?

anyways, there doesnt need to be a ref or judge at every set-up, like i said, just someone watching the people that are know for this type of stuff. or if theyre asked to be there. its not that complicated. have like 5 trusted people to ref/judge, you wont even need them all.

Lol alright. Watch the plank video, and tell me at which point in time you would've D/Qed him. No matter who you ask, you wont get a consistent answer.

And ANY rule set on opinion is a horrible rule and isnt fair to everyone. I dont get you because theres no logic behind your posts.

Not to mention you're being horribly vague. "People tgst are in the know for this type of stuff".

 

[DtJ Jungle]

uhm camping is considered a strategy, otherwise id ont think it would have its own name. its not just hit and run really...its using the lasers to bait your opponent to come to you. The floats match is just..excessive camping, but he rarely actually just shoots and runs. he's actually very good. you should know that being in that area.

also, everyone here has ***** your 'logic.' is there a reason you are trying?