Meta "The Final Content" [1.1.4] Patch Discussion

[Sammi Husky]

D-Smash: All hitboxes Knockback growth 76 -> 78

U-Smash has a lot going on...

Starting frame 7 he has bone intangibility on 2 bones, until frame 13. From there those bones are turned back to normal and 2 different bones are made intangible until either frame 21 or the end of the animation.

• Hitbox 1: Knockback growth 25 -> 19, base knockback 60 -> 70
• Hitbox 2: Same as above.
• Hitbox 3: Delayed hitbox coming out for 1 frames
• Hitbox 4: Comes out 1 frames later due to above. Knockback growth 98 -> 104, base knockback 30 -> 31
• Hitbox 5: Same as above
• Hitbox 6: same as above

There are also positioning changes to usmash as well

How come for some moves BKB and KBG are switched? Falco's Usmash is an example.

They aren't switched. The initial hitboxes just have high base knockback and low KBG to pop grounded foes up into the later hitbox.

edit: ninja'd lmao

 

[Vipermoon]

D-Smash: All hitboxes Knockback growth 76 -> 78

U-Smash has a lot going on...

Starting frame 7 he has bone intangibility on 2 bones, until frame 13. From there those bones are turned back to normal and 2 different bones are made intangible until either frame 21 or the end of the animation.

• Hitbox 1: Knockback growth 25 -> 19, base knockback 60 -> 70
• Hitbox 2: Same as above.
• Hitbox 3: Delayed hitbox coming out for 1 frames
• Hitbox 4: Comes out 1 frames later due to above. Knockback growth 98 -> 104, base knockback 30 -> 31
• Hitbox 5: Same as above
• Hitbox 6: same as above

There are also positioning changes to usmash as well



They aren't switched. The initial hitboxes just have high base knockback and low KBG to pop grounded foes up into the later hitbox.

edit: ninja'd lmao

Lol nevermind

 

[AnEventHorizon]

Sammi Husky will you be creating a diffchecker for every character? Thanks for the help.

 

[Sammi Husky]

Sammi Husky will you be creating a diffchecker for every character? Thanks for the help.

For the characters who have been changed, yea probably.

The unknown function for usmash is unk_853CD75E.

Whatever that func is setting, unk_CEDC237E(Unknown=0x0) is probably unsetting it at the end of the move. What it's doing is the real question though.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

For the characters who have been changed, yea probably.


Whatever that func is setting, unk_CEDC237E(Unknown=0x0) is probably unsetting it at the end of the move. What it's doing is the real question though.

I just finished sweeping through Master Core.

Whatever this flag is, it's set on Diddy's usmash (but never unset), set on Kirby's aerial side special custom 2 (only custom 2) but also never unset, set on action 0x5D on Lucas (I'm pretty sure this is dtilt, set on Lucina's and Marth's nair, set three times for Samus's up smash (once per each of the first few hits), set for each of the first two hits of Yoshi's back aerial, and that's it other than potentially uses for Cloud/Corrin/Bayonetta (since they aren't in Master Core, I don't have an easy way to look at their scripts). Falco's new use is the only case it's ever set to zero which is very unusual (literally every other use case is it being set to one), and I'd generally expect it to be some kind of function to help attacks link into later hits (it's mostly used on early hits of multi-hits, and in the case of Lucas dtilt, helping it link into itself would make sense). What in particular it does... I have no idea. If anyone can find a common link between those moves and no others, I'd be impressed. I checked every character including enemy Miis, final smashes, Luma, and pikmin, but I didn't check random other articles.

EDIT: My bad, the air custom special it's set on isn't Bowser; it's Kirby! In this case, yeah, it's almost assuredly something involved with making multi-hits link better...

 

[RPK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXO9D8OqgW8&feature=youtu.be

Would you guys be able to confirm if this isn't placebo and is an actual buff? Looks like there is an increased range in Marth's tips

 

[Sammi Husky]

I just finished sweeping through Master Core.

It's also used and set to 1 in a great many of Bayo's moves. Almost always immediately after a hitbox.

 

[Zankoku]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXO9D8OqgW8&feature=youtu.be

Would you guys be able to confirm if this isn't placebo and is an actual buff? Looks like there is an increased range in Marth's tips

Already confirmed earlier, here:

Since everyone's asking about Marth (and Lucina) hitbox changes...

Jab1, Jab2
Tipper hitbox X value change 6.5 → 7

Ftilt
Tipper X 6.7→7.7

Dtilt
Sour hitbox Y 3.2→2.7, X 15.2→16.7 (hitbox not tied to sword, those numbers aren't as silly as they sound)
Tipper hitbox X 6.7→8.2

Nair
Hit 1 tipper X 6.7→7.7
Hit 2 tipper X 6.5→7.5

Fair
Tipper X 6.7→7.7

Bair
Tipper X 6.7→7.7

Utilt, Fsmash, Usmash, Dsmash, Uair, Dair
Same hitboxes


tl;dr - sword/tipper is longer for many attacks and dtilt reaches further below the ledge

edit: orz, tad too slow

 

[Mario766]

Can someone check Ike's nair data to check angle? People are saying it changed along with damage increase

 

[Sammi Husky]

Ike's turn!

Eruption: Active hitbox duration increased by 2 frames.
F-Smash:

• Hitbox1: Sound effect changed???
• Hitbox5: damage 17% -> 19%, angle 60 -> 57

Nair: All hitboxes damage 9% -> 10%, angle 70 -> 80. Also some unknown function change at the end of the move.
Fair: All hitboxes damage 12% -> 13%, position changes as well

 

[RPK]

Thank you Zankoku. I just didn't see it in the official notes so I just wanted to make sure.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

A few things worth noting about the special move changes noted...

Marth's one frame less start-up on Dancing Blade 1 only applies to default, not to either custom version. It shares code with the air version so this one frame less start-up applies both on the ground and in the air.

Ike's longer duration hitboxes on Eruption also only apply to default and not to either custom. It also shares code for the air version, and thus the buff applies in the air equally to being on the ground (for many, many special moves, the air version has different code, and a single line change would only change one and not the other).

 

[FlynnCL]

Wait, Ike's forward air already had amazing range and in some cases the hitbox seemed to extend slightly past his sword.

Y=10.5 > Y=12 would mean another 1.5 units of max range. That's huge.

This attack has come a long way. In 1.0.0 the hitbox was 4.5 in size and its max range was 9.5 units.

 

[Linkshot]

I'm guessing the function of this unk multihit thing would be to put opponent's in a flinching state instead of a proper knockback, so they can't act instantly like when a Falco laser hits them.

 

[Lavani]

Coordinates should be ordered ZYX. Knockback should also be KBG WKB BKB order (dunno if your dump has that right/is consistent, but MasterCore flipflops the labeling constantly so putting it out there to be safe).

 

[Scootch]

Hey guys. Just curious, but why haven't we tested Diddy yet? Or Yoshi? Could we do them next please?

 

[san.]

So:

-Not only was fair buffed in damage, it combos even more easily from his throws so he can kill confirm even easier?

-Eruption lasts 2 more frames for better edgeguarding (I believe this is the fire portion, while the sword already lasted a while)

-Nair's damage and angle was buffed so that Ike can follow up on fully spaced nairs and confirm into uair or other aerials more easily. Before, Ike had to be a little close to guarantee followups from nair since opponents could DI away.

-Fsmash's sourspot change is a nice touch (and more along what I thought was going to happen instead of buffing Ike's bread and butter moves). The sourspot still doesn't kill incredibly early, but at least it's moderately powerful.

 

[ProofByContrapositive]

Does this mean that bowser jrs fsmash is active for a shorter amount of time?
I liked throwing it off the edge because it was active for so long.

 

[Sammi Husky]

Hey guys. Just curious, but why haven't we tested Diddy yet? Or Yoshi? Could we do them next please?

The only characters left whose files have been changed at all are

Files data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/effect.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/effect.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/expression.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/expression.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/motion.mtable and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/motion.mtable differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/sound.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/sound.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/koopa/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/koopa/game.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/lizardon/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/lizardon/game.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/pitb/effect.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/pitb/effect.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/szerosuit/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/szerosuit/game.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/toonlink/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/toonlink/game.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/item/takamaru/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/item/takamaru/game.bin differ

Files data/animcmd/weapon/sheik/fusin/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/weapon/sheik/fusin/game.bin differ

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Does this mean that bowser jrs fsmash is active for a shorter amount of time?
I liked throwing it off the edge because it was active for so long.

Slightly, the frame speed multiplier happens after all of the looping weak hits but before the final hit. That means the final hit will come out a little faster (1 frame if I'm correct) and itself might lose some duration (I dunno; frame speed multiplier math is kinda hard), but the majority of the move will stick around the same way it always has.

 

[Scootch]

The only characters left whose files have been changed at all are

Files data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/effect.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/effect.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/expression.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/expression.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/motion.mtable and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/motion.mtable differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/sound.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/sound.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/koopa/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/koopa/game.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/lizardon/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/lizardon/game.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/pitb/effect.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/pitb/effect.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/szerosuit/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/szerosuit/game.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/toonlink/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/toonlink/game.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/item/takamaru/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/item/takamaru/game.bin differ

Files data/animcmd/weapon/sheik/fusin/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/weapon/sheik/fusin/game.bin differ

So does that mean that they haven't been changed at all?

 

[FlynnCL]

Woahhh, captain gots a lot of stuff changed here



My dump's XYZ values may be reversed , so ZYX instead of XYZ. Im not 100% sure though, i havn't gotten a chance to test in game.

This registered as a hit. The glancing blow also shows how far the hitbox extends past the sword beam now.

The range on this move is huge!

 

[Sammi Husky]

So does that mean that they haven't been changed at all?

Not necessarily, the only things i'm diffing right now are their ACMD scripts. Which is actually only 1 of the script types that characters use. There are still changes to Param files, which cover a lot of things like landing lag, character attributes, and IASA frames. There is also mscsb scripts but we've actually never diffed them before since nobody besides @Dantarion bothered to look at reversing their format yet (afaik), and are pretty much completely unknown atm.

 

[Mario766]

PogChamp.

Let's go Ike

 

[san.]

This registered as a hit. The glancing blow also shows how far the hitbox extends past the sword beam now.

The range on this move is huge now!

If I'm understanding this correctly, that Y position represents the tip of the sword so it has more range overall, not just above Ike for the initial hitbox?

If so, that sounds great.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Not necessarily, the only things i'm diffing right now are their ACMD scripts. Which is actually only 1 of the script types that characters use. There are still changes to Param files, which cover a lot of things like landing lag, character attributes, and IASA frames. There is also mscsb scripts but we've actually never diffed them before since nobody besides @Dantarion bothered to look reversing their format yet (afaik), and are pretty much completely unknown atm.

Are mscsb scripts the equivalent of action scripts from Brawl hacking? I remember Brawl had the action scripts (that were rarely necessary to mess with) and the subaction scripts (which were very similar to the acmd scripts and were the main way to edit characters)? If they are, it seems likely to me that they have been rarely or even never changed in a patch since they'd be covering higher level stuff than the fine points of balance.

But yeah, those parameter files are definitely going to be pretty big whenever we get a good diff dump of those.

 

[Sammi Husky]

Are mscsb scripts the equivalent of action scripts from Brawl hacking? I remember Brawl had the action scripts (that were rarely necessary to mess with) and the subaction scripts (which were very similar to the acmd scripts and were the main way to edit characters)? If they are, it seems likely to me that they have been rarely or even never changed in a patch since they'd be covering higher level stuff than the fine points of balance.

But yeah, those parameter files are definitely going to be pretty big whenever we get a good diff dump of those.

Yea from what dant's said it seems that they're action script. But that most of the actual logic of moves is also in them as well. I wouldn't expect a whole lot of changes to have happened to them over time if at all.

Also here's Boozer. I fixed the XYZ offsets labels by the way, so this one should be correct

 

[FlynnCL]

If I'm understanding this correctly, that Y position represents the tip of the sword so it has more range overall, not just above Ike for the initial hitbox?

If so, that sounds great.

Yeah, the Y position basically represents the length of Ragnell (since the hitboxes are attached to its bone). This increased range is active for the entire swing (frames 14 > 21).

I'm not sure if it were possible before, but you can actually hit people on the top of Battlefield's platform with a rising short hop forward air and still have it auto cancel. That's quite amusing.

 

[LordShade67]

I'm not sure if it were possible before, but you can actually hit people on the top of Battlefield's platform with a rising short hop forward air and still have it auto cancel. That's quite amusing.

Last time I checked, upwards hitbox on Ike FAir was added in 1.0.8.

 

[san.]

Yeah, the Y position basically represents the length of Ragnell (since the hitboxes are attached to its bone). This increased range is active for the entire swing (frames 14 > 21).

I'm not sure if it were possible before, but you can actually hit people on the top of Battlefield's platform with a rising short hop forward air and still have it auto cancel. That's quite amusing.

Nice. Before, you had to slightly pause so that Ike reached his maximum short hop height.

 

[Mario766]

Can we get a zss dump soon? Curious on the changes.

 

[jahkzheng]

The only characters left whose files have been changed at all are

Files data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/effect.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/effect.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/expression.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/expression.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/motion.mtable and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/motion.mtable differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/sound.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/kirby/sound.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/koopa/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/koopa/game.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/lizardon/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/lizardon/game.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/pitb/effect.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/pitb/effect.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/szerosuit/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/szerosuit/game.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/fighter/toonlink/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/fighter/toonlink/game.bin differ
Files data/animcmd/item/takamaru/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/item/takamaru/game.bin differ

Files data/animcmd/weapon/sheik/fusin/game.bin and ../../113/romfs/data/animcmd/weapon/sheik/fusin/game.bin differ

I'm guessing all that Kirby stuff could be entirely explained by having Bayo and Corrin to copy now... though there could be a hidden change for Kirby's basic moveset in there.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

If I understand the Boost Kick nerf correctly, 220 knockback growth to 209 and 50 base knockback to 48? Did this move really have 220 knockback growth in the first place? No wonder it made people who didn't SDI out of the last hit so salty...

EDIT: Can confirm the air and ground version of this move are the same, if there's any doubt. And no, this nerf doesn't apply to either custom version.

Double EDIT: A more careful examination suggests the kbg nerf was correctly identified but the 50 -> 48 is indeed probably angle.

 

[thehard]

No one noticed that before (or at least came forward), that's surprising. And how much later will it kill?

 

[Mario766]

Cloud dump? I'm picking some gems today.

 

[Sammi Husky]

Cloud dump? I'm picking some gems today.

Clouds only change is an expression change so like, the way he stands and etc

 

[Mario766]

Clouds only change is an expression change so like, the way he stands and etc

How boring.

 

[Sammi Husky]

Shiek's vanish explosion nerf?

Knockback growth 104 -> 102, Size 14 -> 13

 

[Radical Larry]

I'm interested in the ZSS UpB nerf; the only other attack that's had a significant change in KBG would be Link's first F-Air hit back last patch.

 

[Vipermoon]

If I understand the Boost Kick nerf correctly, 220 knockback growth to 209 and 50 base knockback to 48? Did this move really have 220 knockback growth in the first place? No wonder it made people who didn't SDI out of the last hit so salty...

EDIT: Can confirm the air and ground version of this move are the same, if there's any doubt. And no, this nerf doesn't apply to either custom version.

Looking at it, the 50 to 48 is definitely an angle change.