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Well, thats to be expected of a character like her. I think she is still one of the front runners for a retro choice. Ayumi and Mach Rider may be higher though due to Sakurai actually saying he wanted them at 1 point, but she is in the top 5 likeliest choices.
Yeah, its very strange. Panel de Pon jumping protagonists for installments makes sense now maybe in this context.
I mean, who would have ever thought'd we'd get a follow-up to the same "unexpected truth" behind Imajin and his Arab family from Doki Doki Panic?
I certainly didn't.
I think one of the tips for Yoshi mentions how he has "three puzzle games", mentioning Tetris Attack. *Sheepish laughter*
Either that was because they felt Fairies were like a beginning of that set, but then would be cycled in the next game.
I mean it's tad watered down, but it's been pretty neat handwave, especially in the prices-territory. Clear Lines-mode as the main form of playing against other Villagers in Story Mode feels pretty downgraded from the actual series...
ChronoBound
seems to have misunderstood the quote, but
BluePikmin11
got it right when he said "Lip was meant to be a big icon amongst the likes of Mario, Link, and Donkey Kong".Wrong. Panel de Pon w/ Fairies was the original plan. Yoshi was only added once the game was localized. We see proof of this in every release. Japan didn't even get entries like Tetris Attack (w/ Yoshi) since that was developed after. They didn't get Pokemon Puzzle League (again, a western rework). They did get Yoshi no Panepon which is a translated version of Tetris Attack, but it was renamed (they lacked the Tetris name), and it was much later.
Except they weren't. The designer of them was saying they could be as big as Mario or Yoshi. Not that Panel de Pon was a Yoshi game. Realistically, without our fairy cast we already know what we get: nothing. Just a bland plain puzzle game. If it was a Yoshi game, why not do that instead of Pokemon, Animal Crossing, and literally nothing? Because it ****ing wasn't.
Wrong. It was Yoshi/Pokemon/etc. that hijacked the series. Every PDP game has started out with Lip. Literally every single one of them.
About as soulless as Jumpman and Link. Yes. The games were designed mechanics-first like every nintendo game. And then later characters were added to make a theme/story/etc. It's "true colors" are Lip&Friends. Because those were the characters designed for the game.
Wrong. Yoshi was only added when Tetris Attack was made as a branding move in the west. There's no residual yoshi data in pdp. it's the other way around. As for the fairies, they make an appearance in every single entry. Let's get a brief actual history:Well, at least we have that one game with squid kids that could very well been ANOTHER Mario-title and ALSO a failed attempt to be it's own thing instead of getting hijacked in the future...
In all seriousness, I don't think this is probably as "nasty" as we should be taking it. Surely this might have been the case of many other chars we've seen to this point in more successful games, among many other factors.
Besides, why not look at a rather interesting silver lining here?
Panel De Pon is still sorta walking on a weird road of being a puzzler that has been "practiced" about in various Nintendo-IPs, like Yoshi and his friends, Ash and his friends, and Animal Villagers in some isolated world of their own - and then there's not been anyone shown to do anything.
And within all those, the ongoing "mascot", the recurring character has indisputably been:
So yeah, I don't think this really... "changes" anything. In fact, it makes all of this even more interesting with case of Lip's overall conception and history to this day.
She's a de-facto "Forgotten Nintendo-character" enough to be on Captain Rainbow, but like, if she managed to stick this long around as an overall presence, being always slipped in as a tribute to this point- then that makes her the true star of the it still. I mean, since Puzzle Challenge cut content, the way Lip got thrown back has just gotten increasingly better and better (marginally, but better)
But think. We could have never seen her if things went the way they did.
The fact that she managed to win over guys who thought Mario or Yoshi were going to be better (arguably), is pretty damn impressive. And if that wasn't enough, there's apparently some devs still appreciating her enough to plant on the seeds of her presence in games she's not even appearing physically.
It tells a lot about Lip's very untapped potential, even if it's of course, laid in grave ignorance throughout the years of it. (Well, I've been kinda part of that train too., not gonna lie).
It's not strange. Here's the actual list before western tampering:
It was not. Every single entry started as PDP and later scrapped fairies.
Wrong. The second game developed was PDP GB, which was a port of the SFC game with expanded content. After that was PDP N64, which originally had Lip&Friends but likely was redesigned to the new GCN content (as the game was finally ported to GCN). So our GCN release was actually the 3rd game in the series.
Well, this place blew up.
The impression I got from the translated Wikipedia article isn't that Tetris Attack was the original idea for the game, but rather that Yamagami thought that the characters could become more popular than Mario and Yoshi. Which makes it ironic that Yoshi ended up replacing Lip in the end, even in the public eye.
I will quote the translation that N. Onymous provided:
It's hard to say how the development actually went. The original interview was talking about the impact of the characters, not PDP itself. The characters were designed separately from the original base game. And the designer requested them to be a part of PDP. The view was that the PDP cast was better than Mario or Yoshi, which is why they deserve to be in a game. Not why they deserve to replace a yoshi game (which there's no reason to believe PDP was). But rather that they deserve to be characters as part of the Nintendo cast.
Imagine being this upset over a little misunderstanding. Well Smash Bros is their last chance for them to get some fame. It did wonders for Fire Emblem and I'm hoping Panel de Pon gets the same and whatever the planned game was gonna be.
It's such a pervasive myth and it's just annoying. People see a misinterpreted interview and go "whelp I guess PDP is just a ****ty rebranding" which is entirely incorrect. Imagine someone looks at mario and goes: "Well Mario just hijacked Donkey Kong's series! Donkey Kong is the true star!" It's just pure nonsense.
It was likely that Mario or Yoshi were the protagonists in the original planning stage. Keep in mind Nintendo's history at the time was to attach those characters to any puzzle ideas they had (or throw Mario series characters in like Toad, Wario, and Birdo for Wario's Woods). Yoshi was probably in just as much consideration for the time as Mario due to Yoshi's Island's release in early 1995, which proved to be a big hit in both acclaim and sales.
Yoshi's Island released in March 1995, and Panel de Pon was released in October 1995. I am not sure how long the development cycle was for a SNES/SFC puzzle game, but I imagine that it was only a year to a year and a half, considering a big budget game like Chrono Trigger was only made in a year.
I think you're vastly underestimating the work that goes into a video game, even back in the SNES days. If I had to make an estimate, Panel de Pon was in development since 1994 at the latest.
Depends. I've heard it said no since some people believe Ultimate is focusing more on international appeal and Lip's Stick is still in the game, I've heard it said yes because of all of the crazy things Ultimate is doing as well as the flower being redesigned. We'll just have to see.
Except we've already seen PDP without a skin. It's just generic. It happened in Dr Mario&Puzzle League, as well as Planet Puzzle League. Neither of these games are Yoshi. If PDP characters were never introduced would the game turned out as Yoshi? We don't know. The evidence so far says no. All the music is original. All the art is original. Original story. The developers very much enjoy PDP and never even gave a shoutout to yoshi. Never made it clear it was ever going to be a yoshi game. And NoA actually had to do work to skin over yoshi. As we can see with their lazy rebranding. if there were yoshi assets, why not use them instead of the pdp ones?
I never said hijacked or usurped, that was the language of others. It is pretty clear that the original plan though was to have Mario and/or Yoshi lead, as what was Nintendo's modus operandi with puzzle games in the 1990's. The character designer for Lip and friends successfully pitched them to have it be an original cast instead, and the rest is history.
I know there were SNES titles that had lengthy development cycles (EarthBound probably being the most infamous, which had a five year development hell, and Iwata actually had to swoop in and save the game from being cancelled). However, it seems the development cycle for most SNES games was only a year (also see the DKC sequels).
I never said Yoshi was intended to be the protagonist of the entire series, but rather in the initial planning it was probably planned to have Mario or Yoshi as the protagonist. I do not understand why you are getting apprehensive about this. I am a fan of Tetris Attack and Panel de Pon to the point I even imported the GameCube game (the only home console game outside the SNES/SFC I have ever imported). I love the series for the gameplay and music.
If that was the plan, why were no Yoshi assets and no mario assets used for the western localization where we actually got Yoshi? Why just make crappy edits of PDP sprites?
Because I just don't see it. It's very clear the series was PDP, and then continually reskinned. Not the other way around. Why is there a flower castle in Tetris Attack? Is that a Yoshi thing? What about all these floating islands? All yoshi stuff? Why doesn't it look like the rest of the Yoshi games? Hmmm....
It's very obvious that the reskins were pushed by NoA, not NoJ. There's no "rotation".
The Wikipedia article in question mentions that Yokoi allowed Yamagami (who was not the character designer for the SNES game, incidentally) to work on a game featuring the fairy characters, not to use them for an upcoming game that had already been designed. It's incredibly likely the fairy theme was the initial one.
You're proving my theory that Panel de Pon was in development since 1994 right by saying this.
You are misinterpreting me. I said in the planning stages, meaning before actual programming work was done.
So basically, PDP is less of a Yoshi game than Splatoon is of Mario. AKA not at all whatsoever. But as N. Onymous mentioned, Yoshi wasn't even on the drawing board from what we see. So anything MUST be speculation. All of the interviews, content, etc. we've seen seems to show it was PDP from the start, not Yoshi. It'd be about as accurate as saying it might've been a Wario game. Maybe? We have no proof of it whatsoever, and there's no reason to believe it. It's baseless speculation.
Nope. In fact the only thing that's really in debate here is the first game. As I pointed out, every single other game in the series was planned to be PDP from the start. At this moment, the only thing in debate is whether PDP were the original idea, or whether something else was there. Whether that thing was Mario, Yoshi, Wario, Zelda. There's no way to know. And realistically, all the evidence points to PDP being a unique game. Not anything else.
Its not baseless speculation. My reading and interpretation of that quote (as well as others) see it as their initial plan was it to be Mario or Yoshi lead like their other puzzle games of the 1990's. You seem to take that as a personal affront.
I'm not seeing it. The quote clearly is talking about the potential of the characters and isn't talking about PDP at all. As for your support... honestly it just looks like you're biased against PDP. Yoshi fan?
How can I be biased against Panel de Pon when I literally bought two Panel de Pon games within the past year alone (Pokemon Puzzle League and Nintendo Puzzle Collection), have been a regular commenter in the Panel de Pon/Lip support thread since the pre-Smash 4 days, and myself even made a moveset for Lip.
It's hardly an uncomfortable fact, just a part of design. It's not unusual for things to go through huge changes from the initial scribbles to the final product, or for hundreds of variations on a design to be done and thrown out in favor of one, especially in game design where the gameplay should take priority.
