The Crystal Caves - The Yoshi Social Thread

[Scatz]

Only in terms of a combo. If you use a move while using your DJ, you won't get footstooled out of it.

 

[TomBoComBo]

That seems like a pretty crippling weakness 0.0

Not really, you just Up-air them if they try. or Eggroll since they can't footstool that. And you should be recovering high at all times regardless

 

[deeseejay]

Yeah, it sounds a lot worse than it actually is.

 

[Sylnic]

Any tips on getting the DJL OoS? So far I've had the most success by lightly holding shield, flicking my right thumb over x on its way down to the c-stick, and hitting L (for double jump) in between. And of course releasing shield after jumping. It's had minimal success so far, though it's the only success I've had. Any help on this would be great. That 2 frame window is hard to hit =/

Edit: I think I'm slowly figuring it out. I need to focus more on pressing L after I've released X than I need to focus on pressing them one right after the other. L won't trigger when X is still pressed, and Yoshi still needs to go through his jump squat animation, so I have the same shorthop frame window to press and release X. After that it's just hitting L at the correct time.

Also, has anyone taken note of using Yoshi's DJL to turn around and attack(with anything)? This is likely faster than turning around and wavedashing. I'm sure someone's thought of it, but I've never seen anyone mention it or use it like this.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Any tips on getting the DJL OoS? So far I've had the most success by lightly holding shield, flicking my right thumb over x on its way down to the c-stick, and hitting L (for double jump) in between. And of course releasing shield after jumping. It's had minimal success so far, though it's the only success I've had. Any help on this would be great. That 2 frame window is hard to hit =/

Edit: I think I'm slowly figuring it out. I need to focus more on pressing L after I've released X than I need to focus on pressing them one right after the other. L won't trigger when X is still pressed, and Yoshi still needs to go through his jump squat animation, so I have the same shorthop frame window to press and release X. After that it's just hitting L at the correct time.

Also, has anyone taken note of using Yoshi's DJL to turn around and attack(with anything)? This is likely faster than turning around and wavedashing. I'm sure someone's thought of it, but I've never seen anyone mention it or use it like this.

I do it by simply double tapping the jump and tapping a while holding a downward direction. It is just easier to DJCwavedash OoS, and more effective too

 

[TensenROB]

The easiest way to DJL OOS is holding shield, then doing tap jump (keep holding it) and c-stick down during the jumpsquat. It's not possible to turn around with DJL because Yoshi only turns around on frame 6 of his DJ.

 

[Damp]

Another game for you guys to critique!

Things I know I did terribly in: EDGE GUARDING, only grabbed once, wasted my double jumps.

I'd like to think my movement has improved since last critique, but I'll leave that up for you guys to decide. I thought I did pretty well in the first game, but the second game I played very poorly.

Thanks guys!

 

[Pickledpotatoes]

Can Yoshi be footstooled mid-air during an egg roll? I'm too lazy to figure it out myself.

 

[TensenROB]

Can Yoshi be footstooled mid-air during an egg roll? I'm too lazy to figure it out myself.

He can but he won't be knocked out of it. The other character will jump up as if it was a footstool, but Yoshi won't be affected in any way.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Another game for you guys to critique!

Things I know I did terribly in: EDGE GUARDING, only grabbed once, wasted my double jumps.

I'd like to think my movement has improved since last critique, but I'll leave that up for you guys to decide. I thought I did pretty well in the first game, but the second game I played very poorly.

Thanks guys!

Like the last Time I critiqued you, you really need to work on playing faster and making decisions quicker. You may not have played well in the vid, but to be brutally honest, your Yoshi seems to have a seriously sluggish mental game.
Also work on approaches, Eggroll will only get you so far, it makes your approach linear and predictable. That aside, you don't seem to mix up the approaches anyways, going for dash attacks etc. As you said below in your post: GRABS, EDGE GUARDING, DJC
Grabs would've handed you DK on a silver platter. (Matchup wise, you could've gone for more D-airs) Down-Throw sets DK (among others) up for major, major punishment. Edge guarding has to be smarter than just tossing a few eggs. I usually will toss a follow egg to snipe them, and follow that with an edge egg, to briefly cover recovery options then I either go out on the opponent (not recommended on DK) or ledgehog (recommended for DK) or sometimes fish with D-tilts and Down-Smashes. Your DJC N-airs close to the ground are very good, but I feel that's a tech that won't do you any more than the occasional good at this point.

Here's what I really like: I see Grab-Parrys very consistently (I hope those are done on purpose), I only see one other Yoshi other than myself who uses that tech, so I'm glad more are picking it up. Although I don't think it's doing you any good yet, your DJC shorthop N-airs look very good, you just need to be fast enough to follow them.

overall:
Work on playing faster and making decisions faster. I only saw some minor wavedashing in the end of game 1 and some in game 2, but it HAS to be a big part of you movement if you want to have the tactical edge. Put some major work into wavedashing, better dash dancing, and just playing faster (I recommend finding a training partner with even/slightly lesser skill level who you can play against all the time. You'll adapt against each other constantly and your play (along with his/hers) will improve dramatically).
You need to put more time into knowing Yoshi's more interesting movement options and then his combo potential. (watch aMSa's Yoshi, He has the best movement on the planet)
Eggroll is a monstrous crutch for you, I personally am still adjusting so it isn't one for me anymore so I know how hard it is. But Eggroll can't be used so often as an approach and as the first decision you make to get close. Multiple times you made that automatic decision and got hit out of it, twice killing your stock for it. Use Eggroll for movement and for tech chasing and the occasional off-platform approach.
Finally please, please, please grab more. It makes Yoshi absolutely godlike vs fast fallers and beefy characters.

 

[Damp]

Like the last Time I critiqued you, you really need to work on playing faster and making decisions quicker. You may not have played well in the vid, but to be brutally honest, your Yoshi seems to have a seriously sluggish mental game.
Also work on approaches, Eggroll will only get you so far, it makes your approach linear and predictable. That aside, you don't seem to mix up the approaches anyways, going for dash attacks etc. As you said below in your post: GRABS, EDGE GUARDING, DJC
Grabs would've handed you DK on a silver platter. (Matchup wise, you could've gone for more D-airs) Down-Throw sets DK (among others) up for major, major punishment. Edge guarding has to be smarter than just tossing a few eggs. I usually will toss a follow egg to snipe them, and follow that with an edge egg, to briefly cover recovery options then I either go out on the opponent (not recommended on DK) or ledgehog (recommended for DK) or sometimes fish with D-tilts and Down-Smashes. Your DJC N-airs close to the ground are very good, but I feel that's a tech that won't do you any more than the occasional good at this point.

Here's what I really like: I see Grab-Parrys very consistently (I hope those are done on purpose), I only see one other Yoshi other than myself who uses that tech, so I'm glad more are picking it up. Although I don't think it's doing you any good yet, your DJC shorthop N-airs look very good, you just need to be fast enough to follow them.

overall:
Work on playing faster and making decisions faster. I only saw some minor wavedashing in the end of game 1 and some in game 2, but it HAS to be a big part of you movement if you want to have the tactical edge. Put some major work into wavedashing, better dash dancing, and just playing faster (I recommend finding a training partner with even/slightly lesser skill level who you can play against all the time. You'll adapt against each other constantly and your play (along with his/hers) will improve dramatically).
You need to put more time into knowing Yoshi's more interesting movement options and then his combo potential. (watch aMSa's Yoshi, He has the best movement on the planet)
Eggroll is a monstrous crutch for you, I personally am still adjusting so it isn't one for me anymore so I know how hard it is. But Eggroll can't be used so often as an approach and as the first decision you make to get close. Multiple times you made that automatic decision and got hit out of it, twice killing your stock for it. Use Eggroll for movement and for tech chasing and the occasional off-platform approach.
Finally please, please, please grab more. It makes Yoshi absolutely godlike vs fast fallers and beefy characters.

Thanks a lot, your critiques are always very helpful. I'm glad you noticed that I've worked on my djc nairs out of shield. Those grab parries are most certainly done on purpose, especially after I noticed that this dk relies on grabs a lot. I'm working towards parrying regular attacks, but that's proving difficult. I'll continue to work on my movement a lot. I actually talked to my opponent after the match for some his views on what I did wrong, and he specifically mentioned dash dancing and grabs. I'm glad that you agreed with his views so that I know for sure that these are weak spots in my game.

I hope you think that I've improved since my last critique, as I believe that my out of shield game and eggroll usage has improved (even though now I over use the eggroll).
Hopefully in a few weeks I can get another match on stream and show you some more improvement, especially in the movement department!

Thanks a bunch!

 

[Zeerti]

I've recently been watching some of the pro players such as V3ctorMan play Yoshi and I wanted to start playing him a lot more. I would love some advice/tips on how I can improve how bad I am with him.

www. youtube.com/watch?v=fZyTFZU-WV4 - Game One
www. youtube.com/watch?v=64sBs1mlSiU - Game Two

remove the space after the www. since it won't let me post a link

 

[TomBoComBo]

I've recently been watching some of the pro players such as V3ctorMan play Yoshi and I wanted to start playing him a lot more. I would love some advice/tips on how I can improve how bad I am with him.

www. youtube.com/watch?v=fZyTFZU-WV4 - Game One
www. youtube.com/watch?v=64sBs1mlSiU - Game Two

remove the space after the www. since it won't let me post a link

I have a Yoshi Basic Tutorial Typed out if you want it. I'll Private message it to you. @ CatcherAndTheRai Found it very helpful (I would Hope.

 

[CatcherAndTheRai]

Absolutely, It helped out a bunch! but I still have aways to go!

 

[TomBoComBo]

Also My Yoshi Brethren. CEO was a blast. I had C9Mang0 and Liquid'Ken in my pool. Ken 2-0ed me in winners and I came back to rematch him in Losers finals after he was beaten by Mang0. I took him to game 5 before ultimately losing the set.

 

[Oracle]

I actually played yoshi for once! Didn't do super well, messed up a bunch of djc combos and stuff. I need a little more eggroll lol

yoshi starts at 3 minutes 24 secons

 

[Cuban Pete]

Hey guys, I'm looking at picking up yoshi because he's super kawaii-desu.

That being said, I was wondering if Yoshi has any AT that I should know about so that I can start practicing it asap.

I already know about the edge egg throwing, but other than that is there anything other than l cancels, wavedashes, and wavelands?

 

[Zeerti]

I have a Yoshi Basic Tutorial Typed out if you want it. I'll Private message it to you. @ CatcherAndTheRai Found it very helpful (I would Hope.

I would love for you to send one to me!

 

[Damp]

Hey guys, I'm looking at picking up yoshi because he's super kawaii-desu.

That being said, I was wondering if Yoshi has any AT that I should know about so that I can start practicing it asap.

I already know about the edge egg throwing, but other than that is there anything other than l cancels, wavedashes, and wavelands?

Double jump cancels and rising aerials are Yoshi specific tech. Also, not sure if there's a name for it but if you start an eggroll and then switch directions immediately upon hitting the ground, you'll start at max speed.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Double jump cancels and rising aerials are Yoshi specific tech. Also, not sure if there's a name for it but if you start an eggroll and then switch directions immediately upon hitting the ground, you'll start at max speed.

I posted about that a while ago, I didn't know if I was dumb for thinking it or if it's not quite max speed. We could just call it Eggroll Reversals

 

[NinKenDo64]

Also My Yoshi Brethren. CEO was a blast. I had C9Mang0 and Liquid'Ken in my pool. Ken 2-0ed me in winners and I came back to rematch him in Losers finals after he was beaten by Mang0. I took him to game 5 before ultimately losing the set.

Hey Tombo thanks for the friendlies at CEO. Always a pleasure to run into people who actually play the Yosh. Appreciate all of the pointers. Using egg roll for tech chases is genius. Keep workin on that tech skill bro.

 

[Youngster Joey]

what should yoshis neutral game look like? what should i and should i not be doing?

 

[TomBoComBo]

@ Youngster Joey Watch V3ctorman and aMSa in Melee. The same basic principles apply just add some eggroll for movement, and Rising Aerials.

 

[Nikes]

We don't even have a results thread yet do we?
Forgot to mention I placed 2nd and 5th out of about 15 players at locals recently, hoping to take this weekends tourney this time. Yay results

 

[TomBoComBo]

Nice stuff guys. I'm aiming for bigger regions since I've conquered my own http://rankings.taerk.net/tampa/pm
Next year, expect to see me in top 8 at CEO.

 

[Nikes]

Nice stuff guys. I'm aiming for bigger regions since I've conquered my own http://rankings.taerk.net/tampa/pm
Next year, expect to see me in top 8 at CEO.

Congrats, that's really impressive!

 

[TomBoComBo]

@ Nikes Thanks. I surprised myself in taking Liquid'Ken to game 5 at CEO this year, hopefully I can get farther next

 

[Sylnic]

Does anyone else here use their double jump to aid in wave landing? I've been using it quite often, and it seems to make it much easier to "sweetspot" the waveland than if I were to time a sideways airdodge. It really seems to work well for zipping around the stage, but I'm worried that making it a habit will get me caught without a double-jump at some point. Figured I'd ask here for a consensus before I keep practicing it.

 

[Deviljho]

Does anyone else here use their double jump to aid in wave landing? I've been using it quite often, and it seems to make it much easier to "sweetspot" the waveland than if I were to time a sideways airdodge. It really seems to work well for zipping around the stage, but I'm worried that making it a habit will get me caught without a double-jump at some point. Figured I'd ask here for a consensus before I keep practicing it.

I use it for movement over platforms, similar to how aMSa and Vman do. But if you need to work on other things first.

 

[Mumbo]

Did anyone else play Yoshi in melee before making the transition to PM? What do you guys think about platform movement in PM with wavelands and such. Is it worse, harder, or just different than in melee? I have a lot of trouble doing it smoothly and sometimes doing it at all.

 

[TensenROB]

Did anyone else play Yoshi in melee before making the transition to PM? What do you guys think about platform movement in PM with wavelands and such. Is it worse, harder, or just different than in melee? I have a lot of trouble doing it smoothly and sometimes doing it at all.

It's definitely easier to do in Melee, platform detection in PM feels worse and you'll pass through platforms you'd land on in Melee.

 

[Scatz]

Got a tournament this weekend. I might get some videos if I'm not being a klutz with Yoshi. Gonna be pretty good since top players for GA will be there (Fatality, Mr. Bones, etc. ) and Reflex too.

 

[Nikes]

(Posting here because I don't want to double post in the MU thread)
We don't have a video thread as of yet, do we?

I got to stay on the stream all day so lots of friendlies were recorded; http://www.twitch.tv/kaizmo/b/551018993
We might be streaming PM again next week so yey for more matches? Hoping to understand a few more MU's better before then, my lack of MU experience shows >_>

Got a tournament this weekend. I might get some videos if I'm not being a klutz with Yoshi. Gonna be pretty good since top players for GA will be there (Fatality, Mr. Bones, etc. ) and Reflex too.

Do you know if that will be streamed? It'd be really neat to watch.

 

[Scatz]

It wasn't streamed, but videos were recorded. I have them uploaded, but not released yet because I still need to fix the names and tags. I didn't play Yoshi at all on the recording setup though.

 

[Scatz]

So, reviving this cause I wanted to talk about a move people normally said was not good, or they couldn't find moments to use it during a match.

Why do so many people see the move not as good? I have my reasons as to why I think it's amazing, but I wanna hear what some of you guys have to say before posting it.

 

[TensenROB]

So, reviving this cause I wanted to talk about a move people normally said was not good, or they couldn't find moments to use it during a match.

Why do so many people see the move not as good? I have my reasons as to why I think it's amazing, but I wanna hear what some of you guys have to say before posting it.

What move are you thinking of? Egg lay?

 

[Scatz]

Yeah, Sorry. I wrote it then deleted it by mistake lol.

 

[TomBoComBo]

yeah, egglay is good, It's just not as good as it should be. Incredible for shutting down people who are keeping their distance. And also great for tech chasing.

 

[Scatz]

What is it missing then? Because imo, it's one of the best versions compared to all 4 games.

 

[TensenROB]

Egg lay has tons of applications!

• Yoshi has very close range attacks on his aerials so egg lay works great against people who want to shield grab or attack OOS
• Has 0 commitment vs grounded targets if they make anything but a hard read
• Can be B-reversed as a platform mixup and gives Yoshi more aerial mobility
• Repositions targets, even if they break out immediately they're in the air which gives you an advantage against a lot of characters
• Great OOS option when n-air won't reach