The Cloud Vs. Sheik Matchup

[Chalice]

I put this in the tech sharing thread but I'll put this here as well

I was watching Trela playing Cloud against Karna playing Sheik and I saw something interesting

Trela had Limit Break and he did a SHFF Uair in place on Karna's shield RIGHT NEXT TO HIM and the pushback + shieldstun was enough so that Karna could not grab him

I tested it and it turns out if you SHFF Uair in place against Sheik then you can't be grabbed with or without Limit Break. (I don't think Limit Break matters though) In other words, SHFF Uair is positive on Shield.

It works against the majority of the top/high tier characters except for Ness, Sonic, Pikachu, and Rosalina and Tumor

Against those 4, you have to space the Uair a little and you can't be grabbed.

This doesn't work if you run towards them and do the SHFF Uair on them because your momentum puts you in range of their grabs.

HOWEVER! It doesn't matter for because you can DTilt or Jab upon landing since ZSS grab comes out slow and these moves will beat it out

Also, you can still Autocancel SHFF Uair even in Limit Break. You just have to delay your fast fall by like half a second. When you don't have Limit Break it doesn't matter, you'll always autocancel

 

[GHNeko]

Oh ****. Uair is + on shield?

how many frames? How close to the ground do you have to hit?

That's pretty dank.

 

[DominusTempest]

Limit cross slash also reliably stage spikes (because of the invincibility frames) sheik's vanish, as well as Blade Beam LB. If sheik's two frames of vulnerability overlap with one of the active hitbox's of those two moves, she's getting stage spiked, and that's a stock for you.

 

[GHNeko]

1. Cant you tech that?
2. Sounds like a big gamble and as such doesnt seem worth it; especiall if they can 1. Tech it

 

[Chiroz]

1. Cant you tech that?
2. Sounds like a big gamble and as such doesnt seem worth it; especiall if they can 1. Tech it

You technically CAN tech it (everything is techeable except for Footstools), but both of the moves are considered "untecheable". They have huge hitstun which not only makes the timing of the tech hard but it also takes away the "bounce" timing that allows people to tech easier. Basically it both, gives less frames to tech it AND also lasts a long time which throws people who haven't practiced the timing completely off. It's also done point blank next to the stage which also makes it harder to tech.

It's not that risky since Sheik can't really retaliate but you will lose Limit and Sheik will get complete stage control if you miss it or she is able to tech it.

 

[Player -0]

Some guy on the last page said it was untechable. Either way you should be able to DJ Fair to cover tech/tech jump.

And that was like 2 weeks ago so not exactly new knowledge.

 

[Chiroz]

Some guy on the last page said it was untechable. Either way you should be able to DJ Fair to cover tech/tech jump.

And that was like 2 weeks ago so not exactly new knowledge.

By untecheable he just means it's extremely hard to tech because of certain properties. It's a label people put on some moves because "realisticly" close to no one will be able to tech them, but they are still techeable.

Everything can be teched except for Footstools.

 

[Player -0]

Smash 4 has an interesting interaction and hitlag and whatever frames overlap it causes you not to be able to tech.

Check out Beefy Smash Dudes' channel. Pretty sure it's there.

 

[Chiroz]

Smash 4 has an interesting interaction and hitlag and whatever frames overlap it causes you not to be able to tech.

Check out Beefy Smash Dudes' channel. Pretty sure it's there.

AFAIK, hitlag takes away the freeze frames from hitting the stage, thus making the tech window miniscule. Moves that do this are labeled as "untecheable" but you can theoretically still tech them if you have perfect precision. I'll watch the video in a bit.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You have like...a single frame. Its hard as hell and I doubt any human can do it consistently.

 

[Chiroz]

You have like...a single frame. Its hard as hell and I doubt any human can do it consistently.

Yes, which is what I said on my post. I was just trying to inform the person who asked that, while very improbable, it's still a possibility.

 

[Player -0]

idk. If the video says otherwise then tell me.

or maybe I'll just watch the video again.

eh time to play bad games.