The Big Representation Breakdown Thread

[Guybrush20X6]

People have been throwing the term "representation" around, especially in regards to gender and character alignment. To that end here's the numbers for you to play with. This list considers Zero Suit Samus, Sheik, The Ice Climbers, PKMN Trainer and his Pokemon to all be different characters and includes those dropped from Melee EDIT: and the new characters announced for Smash 4.

Console Representation

5 Pre-NES (Mario, Luigi, Donkey Kong, Mr. Game And Watch, Pac-Man)
15 NES (Link, Zelda, Dr. Mario, Peach, Bowser, Samus, Popo, Nana, Meta Knight, ROB, Pit, Marth, Mega Man, Little Mac, Palutena)
10 Gameboy (Kirby, Dedede, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Pokemon Trainer, Wario)
6 SNES (Diddy Kong, Yoshi, Captain Falcon, Fox, Falco, Ness)
1 Gameboy Colo(u)r (Pichu)
5 Nintendo 64 (Sheik, Ganondorf, Wolf, Young Link, Villager)
3 Gameboy Advance (Zero Suit Samus, Roy, Lucas)
3 Gamecube (Ike, Olimar, Toon Link)
1 Nintendo DS (Lucario)
3 Wii (Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina & Luma, Mii)
1 3DS (Greninja)
1 MSX-2 (Solid Snake)
and 1 SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive (Sonic, duh)

Gender Representation

10 Female (Peach, Zelda, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Nana, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina, Villager, Miis, Palutena)
2 Probable Female (Sheik, Jigglypuff)
4 Not explicit (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Greninja)
2 Robots [Both Male] (ROB, Megaman)
And the Rest, Male

Alignment Representation

7 Villains/Anti-heroes/ambiguous (Bowser, Ganondorf, Dedede, Wario, Mewtwo, Wolf, Meta Knight)
4 Neutral (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pichu, Lucario, Greninja [Wild Pokemon], Wii Fit Trainer, Villager)
And the rest, Heroes

Fighting Style Representation (Discounting bare hands)

8 Sword Users (Link, Young Link, Toon Link, Marth, Roy, Meta Knight, Ike, Pit)
4 Hammer Users (Nana, Popo, Kirby, Dedede)
6 Bow Users (Link, Y. Link, T.Link, Zelda, Sheik, Pit)
7 Sci-fi tech Users (Fox, Falco, Wolf, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, ROB, Mega Man)
4 Supernatural power Users (Zelda, Mewtwo, Ganondorf, Palutena)
2 Minion Users (Olimar, Rosalina)
1 Jungle Tech User (Diddy Kong)
1 Yoga Poses user (Wii Fit Trainer)
1 Boxer (Little Mac)
2 Random crap users (Mr. Game and Watch, Villager)
1 Sheer Manliness User (Captain Falcon)
And 1 Modern Weaponry User (Snake, Snake, SNAAAAAAAKKKKKEEEE!!!!!)

Genre Representation (by Franchise)

9 Platforming (Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Kirby, Sonic, Wario Land, Ice Climbers, Kid Icarus [granted it did become a shooter later], Megaman)
2 Adventure (Legend of Zelda, Metroid)
2 RPG (Pokemon, Earthbound)
1 Turn Based Strategy (Fire Emblem)
1 Real Time Strategy (Pikmin)
1 Racing (F Zero)
1 Rail-Shooter (Star Fox)
2 Minigames (Warioware, Game and Watch... Can't go anywhere else)
1 Weird Peripheral (ROB)
1 Life Sim (Animal Crossing)
1 Fitness game (Wii Fit)
1 Fighting Game (Punch-Out)
1 Stealth (Metal Gear)
1 Character Customiation (Mii)
1 Maze Game (Pac-Man)

[Collapse=Original lists]

Console Representation

4 Pre-NES (Mario, Luigi,Donkey Kong, Mr. Game And Watch)
12 NES (Link, Zelda, Dr. Mario, Peach, Bowser, Samus, Popo, Nana, Meta Knight, ROB, Pit, Marth)
10 Gameboy (Kirby, Dedede, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Pokemon Trainer, Wario)
6 SNES (Diddy Kong, Yoshi, Captain Falcon, Fox, Falco, Ness)
1 Gameboy Colo(u)r (Pichu)
4 Nintendo 64 (Sheik, Ganondorf, Wolf, Young Link)
3 Gameboy Advance (Zero Suit Samus, Roy, Lucas)
3 Gamecube (Ike, Olimar, Toon Link)
1 Nintendo DS (Lucario)
2 Wii (Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina)
1 MSX-2 (Solid Snake)
and 1 SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive (Sonic, duh)

Gender Representation

5 Female (Peach, Zelda, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Nana)
2 Probable Female (Sheik, Jigglypuff)
5 Not explicit (Pikachu, Lucario, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard)
1 Robot (ROB)
And the Rest Male

Alignment Representation

7 Villains/Anti-heroes/ambiguous (Bowser, Ganondorf, DededeWario, Mewtwo, Wolf, Meta Knight)
4 Neutral (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pichu, Lucario [Wild Pokemon])
And the rest Heroes

Fighting Style Representation (Discounting bare hands)

8 Sword Users (Link, Young Link, Toon Link, Marth, Roy, Meta Knight, Ike, Pit)
4 Hammer Users (Nana, Popo, Kirby, Dedede)
6 Bow Users (Link, Y. Link, T.Link, Zelda, Sheik, Pit)
6 Sci-fi tech Users (Fox, Falco, Wolf, Samus, Zero Suit Zamus, ROB)
3 Supernatural power Users (Zelda, Mewtwo, Ganondorf)
1 Pikmin User (Olimar)
1 Jungle Tech User (Diddy Kong)
1 Sheer Manliness User (Captain Falcon)
And 1 Modern Weaponry User (Snake, Snake, SNAAAAAAAKKKKKEEEE!!!!!)

Genre Representation (by Franchise)

8 Platforming (Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Kirby, Sonic, Wario Land, Ice Climbers, Kid Icarus [granted it did become a shooter later])
2 Adventure (Legend of Zelda, Metroid)
2 RPG (Pokemon, Earthbound)
1 Turn Based Strategy (Fire Emblem)
1 Real Time Strategy (Pikmin)
1 Racing (F Zero)
1 Rail-Shooter (Star Fox)
2 Minigames (Warioware, Game and Watch... Can't go anywhere else)
1 Weird Peripheral (ROB)
1 Stealth (Metal Gear)

[/collapse]

Ta-da! Anymore categories I should cover?

 

[FalKoopa]

Add a category of Damsel in Distress. Peach and Zelda aren't heroes.

Also, I believe Dedede should be in the ambiguous category.

 

[Curious Villager]

What about a "sword user" section since people apparently seem to like to talk about that too. As well as blonde and blue haired characters...

 

[AEMehr]

Dedede is more of an Anti-Hero than a villain. Also Lucario's voice is very masculine.

So I would think it would more sense to confirm him as a male.

 

[Curious Villager]

Pikachu is definitely a male too in smash since his tail doesn't have a heart shape or whatever shape it is.

Male Pikachu -->

and Female Pikachu -->

I guess it could have gone either way during Pokemon gen 1 to 3 (so during smash 64 and Melee). But nowadays this is how the male and female Pikachu's are differentiated in the Pokemon franchise. Make of it as you will... :/

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think R.O.B. should be in his own category. Perhaps, peripheral?

 

[FalKoopa]

But nowadays this is how the male and female Pikachu's are differentiated in the Pokemon franchise. Make of it as you will... :/

Gen 4 was out before Brawl. So Brawl Pikachu is most probably male.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

@ Fall Koopa: Heroes as in protagonists. Besides Peach and Zelda have kicked butt at different times.
@ Kikiwi-Kiwi: I'll add a combat one.
@ Swampasaur: ROB was a NES Peripheral so I put him in that category.

 

[Curious Villager]

Gen 4 was out before Brawl. So Brawl Pikachu is most probably male.

Yeah that's why I said that perhaps Melee and 64 Pikachu could have been either male or female since the whole heart-shaped-tail thing hadn't been thought of yet. But Brawl Pikachu is most definitely Male.

Come to think of it, do you think that Pikachu would get an alternate costume (like Wario) in smash 4 where he has a heart shaped tail which turns him into a female and pretty much allowing us to choose between a male and female Pikachu? Alongside it with new feminine hats etc? :/

 

[Deleted member]

Jiggs is definitely female.

Sheik is a dude.

Also, what's the point of this tread. "Representation" is just a term people use to justify their likes snd dislikes.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sheik is a dude..

Every official source refers to her as a she.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Sheik is a dude.

Can of Worms: UNLEASHED!

 

[FalKoopa]

Every official source refers to her as a she.

Official source?

As far as I know, Shiek is referred to as female at least in the trophy descriptions.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Sheik is a dude.

Only if you're a yaoi fangirl.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Official source?

As far as I know, Shiek is referred to as female at least in the trophy descriptions.

This is a pretty official source.
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/sheik.html

 

[FalKoopa]

This is a pretty official source.
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/sheik.html

Eh... I know that. I was talking about any official Zelda website. Zeldawiki.org does refer to Sheik as male.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Eh... I know that. I was talking about any official Zelda website. Zeldawiki.org does refer to Sheik as male.

That's a fan wiki. While those tend to be reliable, they can f*** stuff up on occasion.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Eh... I know that. I was talking about any official Zelda website. Zeldawiki.org does refer to Sheik as male.

This is from Zelda Wiki.

"Sheik's gender is one of the most controversial subjects within the Zelda fandom, the mere mention of it enough to bring about long and heated debates. Some will vigourously insist Sheik is a female due to being the alter ego of the female Zelda, while others will vehemently insist that the primary purpose of Sheik is not being Zelda, so the latter won't be hunted.
Sheik has canonically only appeared in Ocarina of Time. Within that game, Sheik's gender was referred to once, by Princess Ruto, and she referred to Sheik as a "a young man"[15] and "him".[16] The Official Nintendo's Player Guide describes Sheik as "a young man" too and Sheik's art displays a significantly more masculine build than Zelda's. Therefore, it would seem that Sheik within the context of Ocarina of Time at the very least is supposed to be perceived as male, regardless of what "he" may truly be. For that reason, Zelda Wiki has opted to refer to Sheik as male, because the perception is the only certainty about the character's gender.
As to what Sheik's true gender is, the sources are contradictory and what significance a source holds is up to debate. Within the game, Sheik is never unambiguously indicated to be of either gender. "He" may very well be merely a well-done disguise that had Ruto fooled into thinking "he" was a guy. And in that vein, the Official Nintendo's Player Guide is likely written as it is in order to not spoil the revelation of Sheik's true identity to the readers.
The stance that Sheik is a male is supported within the Ocarina of Time manga, in which Zelda used magic to become a Sheikah boy to be safe from Ganondorf. Though the manga contradicts the game on various points, Eiji Aonuma has said that "the manga makes up for [the game] by filling the gaps "precisely"."[17] However, he later stated that players preferred female characters that were more independent, like Sheik and Tetra.[18] Alternatively, the Super Smash Bros. series follows the stance that Sheik is female, referring in the trophy descriptions to a "her". While a sub-discussion may exist over whether or not Brawl Sheik counts as evidence, as she is the non-canonical alter ego of the Zelda from Twilight Princess, Melee Sheik is based on the Ocarina of Time version and is also called female. She retains the masculine appearance of her Ocarina of Time self.
A sort of third option to the debate is that Sheik originally may have been meant as a male character, but has been recast as a female in recent years to better appease to the market. As the debate proves, the idea of gender as an inherent and vital component of an individual's being is deeply ingrained in the (Western) mindset. Nintendo has over time made Ocarina of Time less controversial, such as by recoloring Ganon's blood from red to green, removing real-life religious symbols, and for what it was worth, writing the ReDead trophy description in Super Smash Bros. Melee to destruct the implication that the ones in the Hyrule Castle Town ruins were some of the previous inhabitants. It may be that Sheik as a secret male alter ego to a well-known female character originated as a creative story element, but that such a character would be difficult to market as a multiple-times gender-swapping combatant in the Super Smash Bros. series. Also, Nintendo does not have a large cast of noncontroversial, famous female characters, which makes a female Sheik more interesting from a marketing perspective.[19]"

They don't know either.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Relevant:

Spoiler

 

[FalKoopa]

Okay, let's leave the Sheik debate. Should we start adding newcomers now?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Here are a few suggestions.

Spoiler

Shulk could be Wii.

Mii could be Wii.

Ridley would be NES.

K.Rool would be SNES.

Isaac could be GBA.

Little Mac could be NES.

Takamaru could be NES.

Palutena could be NES.

Dillon could be 3DS.

AC Villager could be GC.

Chrom could be a 3DS.

Bowser Jr. could be GC.

Toad could be NES.

Waluigi could be N64.

Paper Mario could be N64.

Impa could be NES.

Ghirahim could be Wii.

Saki could be N64.

Megaman could be NES.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I got a feeling this threads gonna turn into a Flamewar.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't think it matters what sheik's gender was. Canonically now Sheik is female, and the sheik in Brawl is female without question.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

AC Villager could be GC.

Wouldn't that technically be N64?

 

[FalKoopa]

Wouldn't that technically be N64?

The next Smash game would be localized according to the Western release. So, imo it should be GC.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe I should rephrase my statement. Sheik has a Penis and a masculine build. Just breifly compare Zelda's model to Sheik's. Notice how much wider the shoulders and back get? Likewise the hip bones are narrower on Sheik than on Zelda, a nd the Rib-cage appears larger, thus suggesting a masculine skeleton. Now while Sheik isn"t the ideal masculine frame. The proportions seem to suggest that Sheik is male. It's not a costume change...

If Sheik is a girl then so Marth.

You want a strong independent Zelda? Go play SS, still, I don't see how gender changemakes any difference. It's still Zelda. And before anyone says it's weird or w/e let me remind you that Ranma 1/2 used to air just after Dragonball.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't think it matters since it's been officially confirmed sheik is female

Even in the official manga that came out sheik was female given a male persona.

Not canon, but every canon and non canon source says sheik is female

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Drop the Sheik stuff already! Even if the creators say that Sheik is definitely one gender the fans will still find a way to ignore that in favor of their head-canon and argue that it's the real gender.

And yes, the AC kid would be N64. Marth didn't come out in the west until the DS and is still considered NES.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Drop the Sheik stuff already! Even if the creators say that Sheik is definitely one gender the fans will still find a way to ignore that in favor of their head-canon and argue that it's the real gender.

And yes, the AC kid would be N64. Marth didn't come out in the west until the DS and is still considered NES.

fanon doesn't mean anything

canon means everything

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Added the Fight style list, Any I forgot?

 

[FalKoopa]

What about Pika, Charizard, and Lucario? They are also users of supernatural powers.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Isn't Sheik 100% female? It's not that unheard of for a woman to be a tomboy after all.

 

[Neanderthal]

Good idea for a thread but Im going to nit pick:

Isn't Peach pre-NES? She made her debut in the same game as Mario and DK right?

Lucario is clearly a very masculine Pokemon. Most peopleI see every pokemon as being male except Ivysaur. I'm not sure if that's official or not.

R.O.B should have a genderless category of his..... of it's* own.

I don't like the way the fighting styles are categorised. The sci fi tech should be broken down into specifics. e.g. heavy projectile user. Samus and Snake should at least be in the same category.
And I don't see how Ganondorf is a supernatural power user since all he does is punch and kick (purple smoke with punch =/= magic attack).

 

[FalKoopa]

Good idea for a thread but Im going to nit pick:

Isn't Peach pre-NES? She made her debut in the same game as Mario and DK right?

It was Pauline, not Peach.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Last time i checked, King Dedede has been more of an anti-hero/neutral character then a villain.

Good idea for a thread but Im going to nit pick:

Isn't Peach pre-NES? She made her debut in the same game as Mario and DK right?

http://www.mariowiki.com/pauline

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think for ease, I'll put all the anti heroes and Villains in the same place. Less debate that way.

 

[8-peacock-8]

That could work. Most of the anti-heroes were villains at one point anyway.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Added the Genres, I know Mario has covered many but I felt that all the actual characters (Except Wario's Costume) originated from Platformers.

 

[Neanderthal]

I wouldn't include both Y. Link and Toon link. They are clearly mutually exclusive characters. Toon link is Young's predecessor so it should just be left with him.
Also, I wouldn't include Sheik and Zelda as bow users either since they only use it on the odd occasion they get the smash ball.


Nuff criticism.
I can start to see why some people fear we might end up with too many swordsmen even though that number is inflated by Young Link and Pit who don't belong there. Roy also may not return.
I just hope it doesn't stop characters like Shulk from joining or Ganondorf getting an authentic game based moveset.

But in the end swordsmen are a huuuge part of Nintendo games, so why not represent them accordingly?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The only swordsman from Nintendo games until relatively recently that I remember was just Link

Now wit Fire Emblem, suddenly there are like 20