The Better Lucario Official Guide/Faq/Database (Now with More Lawl!)

[Timbers]

At 0%, the two initial jabs do 3.5% (2%, 1.5%)
At 50%, the two initial jabs do 4.2% (2.5%, 1.7%)

I'm playing around with AA>AA, but if anyone else thinks they have a better option, then go ahead and run with it.

(The percents given are rounded)

AA>AA>sh fair>dair does 21% at 0%. 26% at 50%.

At 0-50%, this will probably be your best option until the opponent reaches 40%. Looks like ftilt (or anything else for the matter) instead of fair>dair would be a better option after that.

AA>AA>ftilt does 16% at 0%. 19% at 50%.

Seems this can be done at any percent, as the two initial jabs have a locked knockback.

AA>AA>grab>downthrow (no pummel) does 17% at 0%. 18% at 50%.

Another thing that can be done at any percent, but I don't know how safe this is. Dthrow can set up into more stuff, so it's definitely worth looking into.

AA>AA> full aurasphere does 20% at 0%. 24% at 50%.

Now this is silly, but it's quicker than the fsmash and will catch people who are trying to counter an approach with their own jabs, and the AS may catch them if they spotdodge. Obviously recommended when you hit higher percents, but I was too lazy to add 100%.

AA>AA>fsmash does 16% (18% tip) at 0%. 20% (22% tip) at 50%.

Will probably screw anyone who tried spotdodging you. The startup lag is perfect, and the lingering hitbox will most definitely catch them. I personally like the idea of AS over this, but it's still in speculation.



If anyone can play around with that, and see what works and what doesn't, that'd be cool. I'm well aware that using AA>AA each time will become just as predictable and therefore useless, so adding in A>AA>AA or A>AA..or AA>A or something to mix it up, will be needed. But right now I just want to see what works and what doesn't. I'll have no local players to play with until Friday, and I don't trust wifi to give me accurate answers. <.<

 

[SSBbo]

yeah, poppertop's got my drift. characters that can projectile spam are if they're good hand-to-hand and good with rolls. it's when experienced people use n00b characters.

i don't main with lucario (i main with seven other characters, too), but my friend does use lucario. i beat him every time, and find it hard to go easy on people. what characters are bad against lucario?

 

[Timbers]

they're good hand-to-hand and good with rolls

Samus has bad priority and her roll is as slow as molasses. <.<

 

[OneWingedAngelo1]

yeah, poppertop's got my drift. characters that can projectile spam are if they're good hand-to-hand and good with rolls. it's when experienced people use n00b characters.

i don't main with lucario (i main with seven other characters, too), but my friend does use lucario. i beat him every time, and find it hard to go easy on people. what characters are bad against lucario?

Ganon and Capt. Falcon are the worst in the game... try those guys

 

[SSBbo]

i'm great with both captain falcon and ganondorf.

i know, samus is a bad example.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

yeah, poppertop's got my drift. characters that can projectile spam are if they're good hand-to-hand and good with rolls. it's when experienced people use n00b characters.

i don't main with lucario (i main with seven other characters, too), but my friend does use lucario. i beat him every time, and find it hard to go easy on people. what characters are bad against lucario?

Sonic has almost nothing going for him against Lucario, as far as I can tell.

 

[OneWingedAngelo1]

Oh yeah.. you could play Jigglypuff

Fighting Type is Super Effective against Normal Type ^_^

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

No AA combo is guaranteed except for AAA and possibly AA turning utilt. All the others can be jumped out of at some stage.

As far as I can tell, every character with the possible exception of Ganon can DI upwards out of a single jab and escape by jumping. Same goes for two jabs. Unless we can hit them faster than the third hit of the AAA combo, there won't be any true combos from Lucario's AAA, just very effective pseudo combos.

However, that does mean the opponent loses their second jump. And as I outlined in another thread, Lucario is very good at getting that "sweet spot" where the opponent is vulnerable after landing.

 

[Kitamerby]

i don't main with lucario (i main with seven other characters, too), but my friend does use lucario. i beat him every time, and find it hard to go easy on people. what characters are bad against lucario?

Anyone not named Lucario, obviously. D:

And TECHNICALLY, Lucario should be weak against himself, being a steel/fighting type...

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Anyone not named Lucario, obviously. D:

And TECHNICALLY, Lucario should be weak against himself, being a steel/fighting type...

Lol. Lucario vs Lucario scenarios in Pokemon are always intense. You're sitting there guessing whether the opponent's Lucario has vacuum wave, or calculating if your own vacuum wave is going to KO it on the first hit.

Pff, Vacuum wave would have been a great move for Lucario to use in Brawl. Like Force Palm but with a better projectile.

 

[Timbers]

No AA combo is guaranteed except for AAA and possibly AA turning utilt. All the others can be jumped out of at some stage.

As far as I can tell, every character with the possible exception of Ganon can DI upwards out of a single jab and escape by jumping. Same goes for two jabs. Unless we can hit them faster than the third hit of the AAA combo, there won't be any true combos from Lucario's AAA, just very effective pseudo combos.

I think everyone is well aware of that. <.< Adding options to your arsenal isn't a bad thing, though. It only helps. I honestly don't think anything more than a second repetition of 1-2 jabs will be effective, but even then, just having that second repetition can get some positive outcomes if you throw it in there every once in a while. If you can observe how they react during your jabs, you can capitalize on it. If they spotdodge your forcepalms or grabs, a second repetition of jabs will catch them out of the spotdodge and you're free to follow up with whatever you desire (granted that "whatever you desire" is still unknown to me <.<) If they're SDIing out of the jabs, it just gives you an opportunity to follow up with an fair or AS or, something. I can't personally play around with this yet, but more options never hurt anyone d=

I'm actually not sure if you were, emphasizing a positive point regarding the jab cancels, or a negative one. <.<;

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I think everyone is well aware of that. <.< Adding options to your arsenal isn't a bad thing, though. It only helps. I honestly don't think anything more than a second repetition of 1-2 jabs will be effective, but even then, just having that second repetition can get some positive outcomes if you throw it in there every once in a while. If you can observe how they react during your jabs, you can capitalize on it. If they spotdodge your forcepalms or grabs, a second repetition of jabs will catch them out of the spotdodge and you're free to follow up with whatever you desire (granted that "whatever you desire" is still unknown to me <.<) If they're SDIing out of the jabs, it just gives you an opportunity to follow up with an fair or AS or, something. I can't personally play around with this yet, but more options never hurt anyone d=

I'm actually not sure if you were, emphasizing a positive point regarding the jab cancels, or a negative one. <.<;

I'm emphasizing both a positive and a negative point about the jab combos, which were previously thought to be inescapable. But even though they aren't free damage anymore, they do put Lucario at an advantage if applied correctly.

But it's important that new Lucario players don't go around thinking that AA>force palm is a guaranteed combo.

 

[Timbers]

I think people have finally stopped overhyping the AA>FP around here, but I know what you mean =T Azen's videos I think are proof enough on how dangerously predictable and punishable it becomes. This is meant to just give more options to the Lucario players, not a complete substitution.

 

[SSBbo]

yeah, i hate jigglypuff, all she's got going for her is sleep, and that doesn't work alot.

 

[tedward2000]

yeah, i hate jigglypuff, all she's got going for her is sleep, and that doesn't work alot.

Random comment of the day?
And her air control and floatlyness, dont for get that. And some good aerials to boot.
she has more then just rest.
-t2

 

[culexus・wau]

I just have to ask here:

is there any way to camp back in a lucario ditto?
I WAS(and I still kinda am cause I win A LOT more than this guy) and I was camped to hell.
and lost the last 2 cause he thought camping to win is the best >=(

 

[tedward2000]

I just have to ask here:

is there any way to camp back in a lucario ditto?
I WAS(and I still kinda am cause I win A LOT more than this guy) and I was camped to hell.
and lost the last 2 cause he thought camping to win is the best >=(

Yes, and it will just lead to a very long match.
Just sit back, and spam BAS, or just charge and fire.
And dodge and move, and dont attack with anything else but AS.

or...
On one of his AS, RDT (reverse double team, double team and hold/roll the joystick in the opposite way you want to go) and you'll be closer to him, then shield and jump and try a aerial.
Basically to break his camping, you have to attack and add lots or pressure. It will work out. Spot dodging and shield is another way too.
-t2

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Quoted from the b-sticking thread:

Hmmm...the way you guys talked about b-sticking, I thought it was going to be hard. It was pathetically easy. And so I don't use it. I Pseudo-stick, and I really don't find too much difficulty with it. I actually find pseudo sticking more convenient, because I feel more in control of myself, but I'm pretty sure that's just a personal taste. It's hard enough, but it's not that hard, unless you use it in fancy ways, like coming up from the ledge. For example, from a ledge grab fast fall and jump with a slight backwards motion(avoiding the bloody wall jump) and then do a pseudo stick force palm. If you do it right and get the timing down, you should have landed right onto the stage with it, and if you get the timing right, you can grab your opponent with it as you come up onto the stage, using your momentum. That's insanely difficult though. Stuff like that makes it hard to do, but otherwise it's not too difficult to do by itself. The only truly difficult one is doing Aus backwards while still facing the same direction. That's hard. Also, on a side note, you can do the pseudo/b-stick movement in smaller or larger increments, depending on how much momentum you have in your jump, how quickly you pull it off, etc. That's partly why pseudo-sticking is so much harder, you have to move very quickly.

Oh, and just as a side note, if you want me to get a video up of some advanced ways to use the techniques then let me know and I'll get one or two up. Just as soon as I get this trick down perfectly. It's pretty difficult to do perfectly consecutively. Anyways, just wondering if you wanted a video of some cool stuff to add to your guide of awesomeness. Seriously. Very comprehensive guide, I learned a lot from it(like how to b/pseudo stick, hehe).

 

[Milln]

We never said it was hard. =O Unless Shin did, but he left, the traitor. >O

Pseudo-sticking rules. =o

Videos already exist so they're not neccesary, but if you'd like to make one, by all means. <3

 

[DuskMarthWater]

I quoted that form the b-sticking thread. Everyone in THERE said it was way hard. I disagree.

Nah, it's only if you want one for your guide. And it would only be on applying uses to pseudo-sticking. Ways to use it, cool little tricks I suppose. You know, extra fluff for an already wicked guide.

 

[Milln]

Could put it under the kinda shallow B-Stick section. It needs more than a 3month old topic. Go for it, i'm too lazy and too focused on playing Mana Khemia and practicing for KiT.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Alright. I guess I could provide a more comprehensive guide on HOW to do it. Most of the stuff I've seen does not explain it all that well, so I'll make one video on how to do it, and another on applications for it. Unless I combine them...anyways, when I get done with it, I'll PM you the link. Might take a week or so, as I don't own a camcorder and would have to borrow my friend's when he gets back in town tomorrow.

 

[culexus・wau]

Actually I wrote a guide on pseudo-sticking =P
it works for most chars: heres da link <3 http://nsider2.com/forums/findpost-p2806581.html

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Jeepy? Where dat Cancellation frame data, plx. I'm anxious for AA QCF+B

Guh. Frame Data. *Shudders*

I'll do it...eventually.

and where the hell do you work, if I may ask O.o

Vineyard management. I was trying to fix a hydraulic system (which is filled with oil), I forgot to relieve the pressure, and it exploded in my face.

That was a bad day.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Your sig is really, really cool Jeepy Sol. Just to let you know.

Anyways, I've got the same issue as you. I'll make a video for this guide, but that might not happen for a while. I don't even know all the tricks for b/p sticking yet. When I get around to it though, I'll make a video about its uses with Luca. I know quite a bit of it already, but not all of it, hehe.

 

[Milln]

June 30th, 2008- Took down the matchup section in lieu of the matchup topic. I archived it to my computer, however, for later. I think I have information to add to the body of the guide, but.... uhh.... I'll put it in when I remember it. >,>

Up... Tricked you guys, again. I'll have substance another day. Promise. This practicing and playing Mana Khemia and such is tough.

 

[Browny]

Oh man, i just did a uthrow -> SH-FF nair -> dtilt -> A-A FP combo today

im like OMGWTF awesome, while simulataneously LOL'ing at what MK/diddy players think classifies as a combo in brawl

 

[Milln]

=OOO! That reminded me!

I have a new favorite string:

Dthrow (They DI Up) > Full Jump Uair > Nair > FF, Ftilt

Next time I can get some human practice i'll see if I can Fair > JumpDair instead of Nair.

 

[Timbers]

^Couldn't the uair be substituted with an fair assuming they DI it diagonally? It's usually what I do out of a dthrow. Dthrow>fair>nair>FF ftilt. Or replace ftilt with jab>FP>fair>nair if I'm feeling lucky <.<

If they DI the throw upwards I just get lazy and uair spam them as long as possible, and then nair if they airdodge the uair >.>

 

[Milln]

I dunno. Everyone I play DI's up and whenever I do catch the forward DI, it's always at a higher percent for me to run after them with a Fair.

 

[Timbers]

Heh, the opposite for me i guess x) A lot, if not everyone I play, DI's away.

 

[Alejan90]

this helped a lot. the extreme speed tricks helped me out the most, and also the force palm and its uses. I've come a long way with lucario since starting to use it thanks to the Lucario boards!

 

[Browny]

so i found out lucarios a-a-a cancles out dins fire, provided it explodes in front of lucario. thats one hell of a disjointed hitbox on his neutral a lol

 

[Milln]

July 4th, 2008- Added Preparations section and information. Switched up introductory pictures.

It's at the bottom and under (PREP)

Feel free to add on to the list of ABSOLUTELY NECCESARY TO ALL LUCARIO list.

 

[Timbers]

WALL CLINGING(Hanging/Chilling/Bro-in')

Hahaha

I love you milln

 

[Browny]

this thread doesnt need more pics

it needs MOAR pics

http://i31.tinypic.com/33tns6e.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/2dhth91.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/2lmnei8.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/2dm89i.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/15x1k6t.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/2ic1u86.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/28wl2me.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/dbmr6q.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/zxjivp.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/2gue2p5.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/14yb97k.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/2ed73iv.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/14alx21.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/2pynpqs.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/33ojl77.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/24dikqc.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/20ij5sj.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/xcnn7a.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/zx3895.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/2eumz6d.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/2r2uckm.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/260s65y.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/28i53rb.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/2utpb1y.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/1jb2n4.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/219zzl.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/2a2kv7.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/2exapnn.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/2wnd2zq.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/1zx8hmh.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/148dkkl.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/264p1tf.jpg

a-a-a 1
a-a-a 2
a-a-a 3
ascharge
asthrow
bair
bthrow
dair
dashatk
dsmash
dtatk
dtaunt
dtcounter
dthrow
dtilt
exspeed
fair
fpflame
fpgrab
fsmash
fthrow
ftilt
ledgeatk100
ledgeatk
nair
pummel
staunt
uair
usmash
utaunt
uthrow
utilt

the pictures are listed in order of the above attacks, so you know which pic is what.

just took some pics of lucarios moves. theyre all very small (120x160) hoping you can add the pics to each move description, because lucario really is that awesome he deserves a picture for every attack.

 

[Timbers]

Very good stuff djbrowny.

As far as the prep list goes, I'm not sure how to accurately explain it. A big part of learning Lucario is knowing what he can and can't do against certain characters. I know you mentioned visiting the character boards, but I'm not sure if that's what I'm trying to entirely say. Luc generally moulds around other character's playstyles. He has a good aerial game, a good ground game, good projectile, and good combo potential. He's not amazing at any of these, though. You can't stick to one of these playstyles in every single match and be 100% effective, because there's likely going to be other characters that can do it better than you can. Know your opponent's weaknesses, and know your own weaknesses in the matchup.

It's a great piece of knowledge to know your moveset. I think this is a much bigger block to overcome than it is with many other characters. He doesn't win matches by just doing big hits and repeating it the entire match. He's going to rack up damage by keeping the pressure on and rack up strings, and being smart enough to know when to back off. I think you mentioned this as well Milln, but know what to do in each situation. Know what Lucario can and can't do in said situation. He's not a very fast character, so you have to capitalize on each moment, you can't randomly throw attacks out there.

 

[Nodrak]

I have a tourny tomorrow and like an idiot, I've bearly played. So lets see if this prep list actually works! Thanks for the update Milln and cool pics =D

On the topic of preparation, I'm wondering, has anyone consitered a custom stage created specifically for training Lucario? I made one ages ago to help get my challenges board cleared but I find it rather awkward.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

I um... I don't know if anyone's posted this, and I know this is coming randomly from out of nowhere, but...
I'm pretty sure some of us have trouble with Zeldas. Well, I've found a solution to this problem that can let us live for a $%&! long time. Those powerful Upsmashes and Fsmashes bringing you down? NOT DOWN! GET UP! No matter where you are hit, be it the tip of Zelda's hands or the feel of her breasts, as long as you DI UP, you will only take the weak part of the attack and you will merely bounce away from her (in some situations I would bounce towards and land behind her, easy UpTilt anyone?).
As for the Upsmash... You can not, to my knowledge, DI out if you fall into it. You CAN however DI out of it when she carries out that surprisingly good Hyphen-Smash. Again, all you have to do is DI UP!
I've tried this DI experiment as Sonic and Lucario at 0% and 999%. It is 100% success rate.

 

[Timbers]

Zero, sorry to burst your bubble, but that's been known for a while <.< Like any multihit, it's possible to SDI out of it. If you're in the center of either of the moves, then it's much harder to escape (or even impossible) than if you're just knicked with it.
Zelda's an easy match. Unless you get lightning kicked, then you'll live for fairly long percents. I don't think Lucario typically has a character disadvantage in the match. You outspace her pretty well. Just don't land on obvious things (uair/usmash)