The Armory: Using G&W's arsenal to the fullest extent (8-13-08) Now on: Usmash

[A2ZOMG]

I dunno about the dash attack. It feels like the SH Fair does everything more effectively.

The only time I really use it is when I am right on the edge of the level, guarding, hoping for a shieldgrab. Opponents tend to ledge roll from this position! Then you can use the dash attack to get them back out there for a gimp or something I guess. I don't really use it that much =[

The problem is you don't actually want to use your F-air too much because it's G&W's main aerial kill move, and the landing lag is awful when SHed. I rarely SHF-air these days actually. I autocancel the F-air by doing a rising fullhopped F-air.

Yes I'll admit the Dash attack is rather situational, but it's awesome by all means as a surprise attack. Does like 12%, fastest option from a dash, ridiculous priority that clashes or overrides too many attacks, and duration that punishes spotdodges.

 

[GenericKen]

It has enough linger to last through a spot dodge, and I think there's like only one level of priority in the game that's over it. Clangs with projectiles nicely.

I haven't tested with it, but at very low percentages, I think it "combos" into itself. Opponents can airdodge or air attack after the hitstun, but the second dash attack lasts through the dodge to the ground and goes through most attacks, and at low percentages there's not enough knockback to DI away or to reach the ground for a tech or shield. I'd appreciate it if someone could verify or nullify this.

I do like the ability to send opponents behind me, especially if my back is to the ledge.


Very weak against shields and shield grabs (and arials from above and behind), and pretty mild range. The hitbox lingers, but there's only one of them, so if they block an early part, the rest passes through them laggily, doing nothing while they punish you.
I like throwing one out that's spaced outside of grab range and following with a buffered dtilt, but I doubt that' strategy's very sound. =O)

 

[Frate]

Combo that works a lot is a simple dthrow to dsmash. It's wonderful. I love it. Especially since you don't seem to sweetspot it so they go fly in a trajectory that is like a perfect hit of pikachu's uair in melee.

 

[cutter]

Combo that works a lot is a simple dthrow to dsmash. It's wonderful. I love it. Especially since you don't seem to sweetspot it so they go fly in a trajectory that is like a perfect hit of pikachu's uair in melee.

Only lightweights will get caught in this, and ANY character can avoid the combo entirely if they tech the throw. Believe me, most people will expect a Dsmash after a Dthrow to follow up.

 

[_Phloat_]

Back to the topic at hand... someone knowledgeable...

I don't use it at all, but that is what this thread is for =D

 

[cutter]

Back to the topic at hand... someone knowledgeable...

I don't use it at all, but that is what this thread is for =D

This thread is discussing G&W's moves in depth so we can get a better understanding of how to correctly use all his moves at his disposal.

Ok guys, Dash attack update is complete and we're on a move that I'm certain will garner a lot of attention:

Up B

 

[Hawks go Caw]

No love for Up-B?

Up-B has to be one of the most versatile moves in the game. It has incredible vertical height so it's great for recovery. The parachute allows G&W to glide a good distance horizontally. You can attack or use a second jump out of the parachute so it's great for following up certain attacks like Utilt. It has the same quality as Uair in that it pushes opponents upwards with a cushion of air. There's Hylian's Up-B > Dair pillar. It's just such a sexy move.

Running off the stage to chase a recovering opponent > Up-B to hit them back out and glide back onto stage works okay too.

Up-B through platforms sometimes causes G&W to sit down. I think this happens when the parachute comes out the moment you land on the platform.

 

[Debonu]

i love using up b for edge gaurding because it helps get me up high enough to attack and if i hit them with it thers the added bonus that it can knock them sideways killing them

 

[Neb]

Running off the stage to chase a recovering opponent > Up-B to hit them back out and glide back onto stage works okay too.

Do this all the time. And you don't have to call it the Hylian Pillar, xD. I'm sure people used that before he brought it to the public, just saying.

Up-b
+Escape Route, especially on initial frame.
+Great Edgeguard
+Interrupts a lot of attacks
+Hitbox Cancels
+Trampoline springs players/solid objects
+I've seen NoJ do an up-b out of a forward or back throw?
+Good for dair pillaring
+Chains good out of moves. (ex- nair)
+Aids in Juggling
+Excellent recovery

I would go into detail, but egh...very tired.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Ledge drop > Nair > Up-B also provides a safe way to get back onto the stage.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Up-B, wow, this is like THE BEST Up-B in the entire game.

Instant startup with invincibility frames or something ridiculous like that makes this an amazing combo breaker. You can use aerials out of it. The priority on this attack is ridiculous and pretty much is able to beat everything that is or isn't a disjointed hitbox, and the horizontal knockback is extremely useful. You can even kill people with the Up-B if you jump out far enough away from the stage and hit someone with this attack, and still make it back.

Up-B wind effect owns MK too. XD

 

[Popertop]

edge guarding with a couple turtles and Up B to fair is very sexy.

 

[BarakuDragon]

Up B is great, if someoens edguarding BOOM up b knocks them off and i'm on the edge =p lol. It's also good for when i try to key someone down and i'm about to die i use up b from the bottom and i just reach the ledge. I like how it glides you in the direction you want and you can remove it at any time to so you can attack when you feel like it. It's also a good killing move if someones high up in the air, i've killed people using my up b a couple of times when they were high up or on a good %.

Still got some work to do on it tho, but it's a great move on GnW arsenal that's for sur.

 

[Plum]

Using its invincibility frames to pass through the Great Fox's laser after untouched after filling a bucket :D

Its like G&W stole Peach's recovery, made it absolutely godly and VERY hard to punish/gimp (or impossible depending on who you are arguing with) and he decided taking a box, a turtle, fish, a key, or some freakish lips afterwards would be a good idea.

It was a very good idea.

I don't know about you, but I say that taking his parachute from Melee and putting it here was a great choice. Though it would be cooler if he kept the parachute his Nair and floated with fish
But it does allow a lot of freedom when recovering, and the options out of it can drive the opponent crazy.

 

[Neb]

Either that, or change the parachute animation after UpB into a HUGE long lasting hitbox. That'd be broken, >.

 

[cutter]

Wow... I was expecting more discussion, but oh well. :|

Update for Up B done.

Next up: Jab

 

[Needle of Juntah]

u can jab grab
jab a few times and dtilt
or if u catch them off guard a lil u can a spam them for like 10-15 dmg or more somtimes, then dtilt lol

 

[Neb]

A lot of our community hasn't been around, maybe we should have a review after we're threw with all the moves?

 

[Needle of Juntah]

um for the Upb its goo to use on offence as well as recovery. but is punishable.

i think theres just much to the Upb u cant really just make a simple post for it.
cause you can do moves and dodges and edgeguards i mean all you have to do is watch videos to see what u can do with the Upb.

thats prolly why not many posted they just dont know what to say its just that good of a move

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Shore. I haven't seen Mr. Escalator in a while and I'm sure he has some things to say.

---

Jab covers behind G&W. Slightly. As far as jabs go, it's not the best. G&W has so many other moves that work better that I don't use it nearly as often as I should. Dtilt spam seems to work just as good as the Jab combo. And the fact that pressing a button while using Greenhouse causes more jabbing kind of sucks. It doesn't finish when I'd like it to and so I get pwned =(

Dthrow > jab > grab works okay sometimes too.

 

[Needle of Juntah]

also i think there should be the same hit box and hit frames on the UpB's parachute as the parachute in melee that would be so sweet

 

[cutter]

^ lol I think we're past that.

True, G&W Up B is so complex that you really can't write a single post about it. Then again, I can try and condense it best as I can.

 

[_Phloat_]

It has its use as a jab. A quick move to chain, interrupt, or just throw for speed. I like to use it after grabs like they said, simply because you can still techchase a little if you miss, the move is really fast.

Also, it eats projectiles.

 

[Neb]

My list.
+Infinite
+Projectile Defense
+Interrupting
+Pseudo-CG
+Start Combos
+Kill Approaches
+Edgeguard against bad recoveries
+Punish Spotdodge

 

[_Phloat_]

When can the jab infinite? Besides when a partner is holding the opponent?

 

[Neb]

It can infinite against a wall if you know what your doing. Though its better if the wall you infinite against, has a roof.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

It can infinite against a wall if you know what your doing. Though its better if the wall you infinite against, has a roof.

Corneria and Rainbow Cruise come to mind. Are there any others?

 

[wul]

Corneria and Rainbow Cruise come to mind. Are there any others?

Onett should work, until there's traffic.

 

[_Phloat_]

So, you are saying with proper timing all you need is a wall?

(Coughmeleefox)

 

[Ruuku]

Out of the common legal stages, I suppose it would work on Rainbow Cruise, Pokemon Stadium (Melee), and Corneria. I would much rather use Dtilt though.

 

[Neb]

So, you are saying with proper timing all you need is a wall?

(Coughmeleefox)

Pretty much, but yeah, its more solid with dtilt.

 

[Debonu]

how long can u usually go with a jab

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W has one of the longer ranged jabs in Brawl. Properly spaced, it can't be shieldgrabbed 90% of the time. =)

I dunno, but my issue with the jab is that it doesn't seem to do that much damage for a rapid jab combo. I could be wrong though.

 

[ADMJP]

hes only puffing gas at the guy, you want it to have a poisoning effect or something?

 

[Neb]

Has anyone started using jab into judge?
Just wondering if it was effective.

Edit: Egh, I wish jab could lock.

 

[ADMJP]

i tend to use the jab to set up the up smash...like theyll SHAD and ill catch them with the jab and when theyre busy DIing i prepare for my smash in whatever direction they go.

 

[Debonu]

i mostly use jab to really piss of my friends who have horrible di and cant get out of it and it really pisses them off

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Has anyone started using jab into judge?
Just wondering if it was effective.

Edit: Egh, I wish jab could lock.

Why can't jab lock? Is there a specific property about it or has it just not been found yet. After seeing new ways to laser lock with Falco, Ice Climber's Ice Block Lock, and Kirby's jab lock, I'm starting to think that every character has some variation on it.

Has anybody tried Utilt > footstool > Dair or Nair or maybe even Fair > jab? Just from a theoretical stand point, I think the best chance would be Fair since in Kirby's jab lock and Falco's Dthrow > Footstool > Dair > Laser Lock combo, they both require weak hits and Dair's hit when landing would knock the opponent to hard and Nair's fish would knock the opponent up too.

 

[_Phloat_]

We should experiment with jab locks, they look to be actually effective. Especially since they, if you have any consistency, will refresh all your moves!

Can GaW Duck-Jab Cancel like Lucario?

 

[Neb]

Jab lock doesn't work with Game and Watch because his particular jab doesn't punch, it puffs, which on contact, pushes your grounded opponent into a standing position, that's why he can pseudo-chaingrab.