Teaching New Players

[GHNeko]

So, having posted here, that means I'm more redneck than you, while still being a French monsieur.
How does that work exactly ?

I'm black and your not.

Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Fortress]

This Pit is legit as ****. I learned so many things just by watching this.

I'M USING THE SAME THEME FOR MY MAIN MENU.

FFX was great.

 

[HyperrCrow]

This thread should be locked, then thrown off a bridge.
God forbid that a girl finds this, OP would likely kill any chance of further community involvement.

I think himemiya was getting ready to kill him lol

 

[trash?]

damn this is a good pit

DAMN this is a good pit

DAAAAAAAMN that first match comeback this is a GOOD PIT

though now I'm wondering: is there any more recent footage? this IS from, like, five or so months ago, idk

 

[himemiya]

I think himemiya was getting ready to kill him lol

This^, I'll 560 (bus route) it over to his house when he is not home break in to mess with his stuff. By that I mean turn on the lights, the tv's, and the stove and other things I may have missed. Apples will freak out and will definitely have a heart attack and when he reaches the hospital I'll impersonate a nurse just to get close to you. You know what I'mma do after that? cut off any support lines thats keeping you alive so you won't be alive anymore. Just because of this thread you're in for a hellish demise, say your prayers maggot!

 

[\Apples]

I don't even know what's happening here anymore. I'm so conflicted between loving and hating this thread right now. lol

The problem here is that you're assuming that there's a different learning style. There's no inherent difference in how men and women learn this game.

Well, I was never assuming this, I was actually asking if there was a different learning style between them. I realized this after giving it some more thought, this is really the only question that should have been in the OP. As I stated later, I asked the question from a state of ignorance which I tried to make apparent: I'm not a teacher and I've never really "studied" how we learn all that much. So I thought I'd turn to my friends in the Smash community and ask them to share their experiences.

Thank you for being a reasonable person who doesn't take one thing someone says and flies off the handle with wild and ridiculous accusations which are completely false and/or irrelevant to the topic.

 

[meow]

Yeah this topic got really out of hand
It's like tumblr where everyone gets offended lightning quick
He already realized his mistake and about 1-2 pages of flame still appeared

 

[Fortress]

Yeah this topic got really out of hand
It's like tumblr where everyone gets offended lightning quick
He already realized his mistake and about 1-2 pages of flame still appeared

But it was hilarious. \Apples is a hero.

 

[JOE!]

A French Redneck..? Oh, je suis desole, mon aime.

I believe that's called Cajun.

Anywho, @ that guy who said "90% of all people knocked out of pools are male".... well that is because the vast majority of people attending tournies are male. Should it matter that way more men are interested in competitive smash than women? Should it matter that you are playing against / training a woman or a man? I don't think so.

 

[Fortress]

I believe that's called Cajun.

Anywho, @ that guy who said "90% of all people knocked out of pools are male".... well that is because the vast majority of people attending tournies are male. Should it matter that way more men are interested in competitive smash than women? Should it matter that you are playing against / training a woman or a man? I don't think so.

Mmmm... di' somebo'y call de 'Ragin' Cajun'?

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Mizuki's Pit is pretty godlike. Jussayin'

That is a sexy-ass Pit. So many little things done that I never thought of.

 

[MookieRah]

I'm from Mississippi, and have lived in Montana since I was three, if that helps.

But I haven't been on topic in the three posts I've posted here, counting this one.

Don't tell anybody.

I'm from Mississippi and I lived there till I was 27. Then I moved to Sweden : ). MS sucks, be glad you escaped when you were younger.

Thank you for being a reasonable person who doesn't take one thing someone says and flies off the handle with wild and ridiculous accusations which are completely false and/or irrelevant to the topic.

But my response was quite justified actually. I mean if you read my slight alteration it should be apparent that what you wrote was problematic. I don't think that you are a terrible person, just that you likely didn't put much thought behind what you said. I hope it did open your eyes a bit though.

As far as teaching, it's fairly easy. The number one thing to remember when teaching is to go all in with teaching. Teach like your goal is to get them better than you, and try to do the stuff that is needed to get them there. For complete newbies, I outline a list of basic tech for them to practice on, and then I use matches as a way of explaining smash theory and concepts of the game. It's working really well so far. From there I adjust on a person by person basis, and try to critique my friends via FB shoutouts afterwards praising them for the things they did well and mentioning areas where they could work on. Don't focus too hard on the bad, just say something like "Your recovery could use a little polishing. Try to focus on not using your double jump immediately after being knocked off stage."

 

[meow]

Sorry, I don't see how this Pit is so unique (it's good that's for sure). I watch a lot of Pit videos and I also main him.
What is exactly unique that I'm missing?

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Sorry, I don't see how this Pit is so unique (it's good that's for sure). I watch a lot of Pit videos and I also main him.
What is exactly unique that I'm missing?

It's not necessarily that it's unique, but that it's really good. I don't watch a lot of Pit videos, but the ones that I do see have a lot of arrow-based obnoxiousness, where as this one utilizes Pit's fantastic speed and aerial game to set up traps that it forces Calabrel's Fox into. I'd say the same regarding any character that impressed me, honestly.

 

[Fortress]

I'm from Mississippi and I lived there till I was 27. Then I moved to Sweden : ). MS sucks, be glad you escaped when you were younger.

Och jag har inte ens min accent längre!

 

[Deleted member]

We all know that the two genders have their differences to be embraced, but I want to know if any of you have tried teaching a girl how to play Smash and if so, how did it go over? I imagine for most, she probably gave up early on. But for the brave who fought further, how did that come along and what do you think helped? What do you think hurt? Did you teach them differently than you teach guys? Does it make a difference? What character did you recommend she start with? What character did she stick with? What character would you recommend for beginners in order to best teach the game's fundamentals? Would that character be different for a beginner that is a girl?

Drive and focus are predominantly masculine qualities. To expect a feminine person, male or female, to have those qualities or to push for them is more likely to put that person off because it is not within his or her standard means of operation. The lessons don't matter, the techniques don't matter, the characters don't matter. These are characteristics that your masculine mind considers during its normal operation. The feminine mind simply does not work this way.

On a more expansive note, you can't really force someone to do something if they don't want to do it to begin with. It's usually best to make an offer, but leave it at that- just an offer.

 

[Paradoxium]

why are we still going on about women and gaming? If a girl wants to play smash bros she'll play it, the same way everyone else does, its no different for a male
I think the only reason this is even a topic is because the smash bros scene is mostly dominated by males

 

[Star ☆]

I think it's very much just a case of asking what they like about the game and using that to help teach them to get better, like with any person. Not just girls. For example, I've got a great friend who loves Zelda and she got into Smash and played it obsessively just to beat my ass with Link. Stuff like that.

 

[\Apples]

I'm from Mississippi and I lived there till I was 27. Then I moved to Sweden : ). MS sucks, be glad you escaped when you were younger.

But my response was quite justified actually. I mean if you read my slight alteration it should be apparent that what you wrote was problematic. I don't think that you are a terrible person, just that you likely didn't put much thought behind what you said. I hope it did open your eyes a bit though.

As far as teaching, it's fairly easy. The number one thing to remember when teaching is to go all in with teaching. Teach like your goal is to get them better than you, and try to do the stuff that is needed to get them there. For complete newbies, I outline a list of basic tech for them to practice on, and then I use matches as a way of explaining smash theory and concepts of the game. It's working really well so far. From there I adjust on a person by person basis, and try to critique my friends via FB shoutouts afterwards praising them for the things they did well and mentioning areas where they could work on. Don't focus too hard on the bad, just say something like "Your recovery could use a little polishing. Try to focus on not using your double jump immediately after being knocked off stage."

So, I actually don't think your post was very fair. My first post wasn't sexist at all, and reading yours doesn't sound very racist either. It just sounds like a little bit of ignorance. Nowhere in my post did I even hint that I hold myself over women in any way shape or form. I said that there are fundamental differences, some of which I am aware of and some of which I am not. I came to ask these questions for those reasons but communication is a two-way street. The problem lies in the chemistry between the writer and the reader; some people received the message and some people misunderstood and responded tactlessly and in some cases humorously. But I believe men and women are more alike than they are unlike one another, but that those differences that separate them should be embraced or accepted rather than changed.

Your advice in regards to teaching, though, is useful. Thanks.

Drive and focus are predominantly masculine qualities. To expect a feminine person, male or female, to have those qualities or to push for them is more likely to put that person off because it is not within his or her standard means of operation. The lessons don't matter, the techniques don't matter, the characters don't matter. These are characteristics that your masculine mind considers during its normal operation. The feminine mind simply does not work this way.

So, this is great. Why do you say that the feminine mind doesn't work this way? Because I've been impressed by some of the things that she's been able to analyze about the game even as a super-noob. I was kind of blown away, considering her gaming experience lies mostly in her childhood with 1P Nintendo games, and doesn't really have experience in competitive environments. She brought up after a session (completely unprompted) that when thinking about what it would take for her to get good even after she got comfortable with the controls, she'd have to understand her character so well, then understand her opponent's character very well and understand how each character interacts with one another and even how stages affect that. I was pretty impressed, honestly. She even pointed out how at a fundamental level, attacks, shields and grabs function together much like rock, paper and scissors and that that's what fuels the metagame infinitely.

So I mean, I think that's a pretty great analysis for someone who doesn't play games at all. Do you think this is atypical of the feminine mind or are you referring to something else?

On a more expansive note, you can't really force someone to do something if they don't want to do it to begin with. It's usually best to make an offer, but leave it at that- just an offer.

Yep. I actually never even offered, she approached me about learning Smash. I'm not a forceful person by any stretch of the word, so much that I never even considered actively trying to get her interested in playing.

This thread should be locked, then thrown off a bridge.
God forbid that a girl finds this, OP would likely kill any chance of further community involvement.

Also, I didn't see this before and I sincerely hope that is not the case. Considering a re-title to this discussion. A generic Teaching New Players sounds perfect.

 

[Fortress]

why are we still going on about women and gaming? If a girl wants to play smash bros she'll play it, the same way everyone else does, its no different for a male
I think the only reason this is even a topic is because the smash bros scene is mostly dominated by males

You love this thread and you know it.

 

[Paradoxium]

You love this thread and you know it.

hey, what can I say? it's a thread about 2 of my greatest passions in life

 

[\Apples]

NOT ANYMORE

 

[Deleted member]

So, this is great. Why do you say that the feminine mind doesn't work this way? Because I've been impressed by some of the things that she's been able to analyze about the game even as a super-noob. I was kind of blown away, considering her gaming experience lies mostly in her childhood with 1P Nintendo games, and doesn't really have experience in competitive environments. She brought up after a session (completely unprompted) that when thinking about what it would take for her to get good even after she got comfortable with the controls, she'd have to understand her character so well, then understand her opponent's character very well and understand how each character interacts with one another and even how stages affect that. I was pretty impressed, honestly. She even pointed out how at a fundamental level, attacks, shields and grabs function together much like rock, paper and scissors and that that's what fuels the metagame infinitely.

So I mean, I think that's a pretty great analysis for someone who doesn't play games at all. Do you think this is atypical of the feminine mind or are you referring to something else?

Yep. I actually never even offered, she approached me about learning Smash. I'm not a forceful person by any stretch of the word, so much that I never even considered actively trying to get her interested in playing.

I have a running theory that each person is some percentage of masculine and some percentage of feminine, and that these energies and characteristics manifest themselves through the person's personality. I will humbly submit that a video game might just appeal to a woman's masculine energy. When I refer to feminine or masculine qualities, it's very generalized to convey an idea, I don't actually think anyone is entirely one and none of the other without some extreme mental issues.

As for why the feminine mind works the way it does, or the masculine mind for that matter, I offer no explanation. It simply is the way it is. We have all observed gender roles at some point or another, so for example pretty much everyone knows what I'm talking about if I refer to a "feminine man". I don't think any further explanation from my end would do much here.

 

[trash?]

I'm down for umbreon's explanation. psychology, technically, is still in its early stages, so the closest thing you have a hard understanding on is that the brain's form of masculinity/femininity can be separated from the body (though it doesn't HAVE to be), and... that's about it. it's all kind of blurry and has a good chance for inaccuracies past that, because for context, only a century ago (not a long time, in terms of medical science) the "world's best psychologist" (if I'm recalling this story correctly) noticed a giant lump on someone's head and said "well it's because she was on her period". it wasn't like anyone could properly REFUTE him because psychology wasn't really a thing, he could say whatever the hell he felt like and nothing could prove his theory wrong


...AHEM. anyways. NEW PLAYERS

100% the most important thing to understand is the difference between helping and hand-holding. no new player wants to deal with someone acting like a condescending prick, but they also don't want someone to drop them into training mode with fox and say "well, time to remake the metagame, off you go".

 

[meow]

I don't know if it's just me but the people I teach that are new always have a hard time learning smash attacks
AND THEN I TELL THEM ABOUT THE C STICK AND THAT'S ALL THEY PRESS

For teaching those who genuinely want to get better, training mode to learn the basics then 1v1 all day
and tell them to watch videos of their mains!

 

[Fortress]

100% the most important thing to understand is the difference between helping and hand-holding. no new player wants to deal with someone acting like a condescending prick, but they also don't want someone to drop them into training mode with fox and say "well, time to remake the metagame, off you go".

Is it wrong how I try and teach my roommates, in that case? I'll pull up a progame of somebody who mains the same character as them, sit them down and have them watch it with me, and when something like L-cancelling a certain move or doing things like wavelanding come up, I take them into training mode, tell them what that thing was and why it was important, and have them do it with me for about ten minutes?

I feel like that kind of 'drilling' has really helped...

 

[meow]

Is it wrong how I try and teach my roommates, in that case? I'll pull up a progame of somebody who mains the same character as them, sit them down and have them watch it with me, and when something like L-cancelling a certain move or doing things like wavelanding come up, I take them into training mode, tell them what that thing was and why it was important, and have them do it with me for about ten minutes?

I feel like that kind of 'drilling' has really helped...

Stop thinking like I am pls

 

[yogurtgun1245]

Is it wrong how I try and teach my roommates, in that case? I'll pull up a progame of somebody who mains the same character as them, sit them down and have them watch it with me, and when something like L-cancelling a certain move or doing things like wavelanding come up, I take them into training mode, tell them what that thing was and why it was important, and have them do it with me for about ten minutes?

I feel like that kind of 'drilling' has really helped...

This is how I've been teaching some of my friends to get better, and it has provided some good results as far as their execution goes. They're much more fluid players. But they still need time with actual matches and beating sorely beaten in order to figure out the decision making processes of when to use the techniques.

 

[trojanpooh]

I have a running theory that each person is some percentage of masculine and some percentage of feminine, and that these energies and characteristics manifest themselves through the person's personality. I will humbly submit that a video game might just appeal to a woman's masculine energy. When I refer to feminine or masculine qualities, it's very generalized to convey an idea, I don't actually think anyone is entirely one and none of the other without some extreme mental issues.

As for why the feminine mind works the way it does, or the masculine mind for that matter, I offer no explanation. It simply is the way it is. We have all observed gender roles at some point or another, so for example pretty much everyone knows what I'm talking about if I refer to a "feminine man". I don't think any further explanation from my end would do much here.

This post gave me cancer.

 

[Deleted member]

This post gave me cancer.

making assertions about people's behavior is always going to upset some number of people. cheers to hoping that my critics analyze my ideas and help me refine them without bludgeoning me to death with semantics or obvious exceptions.

 

[Fortress]

Stop thinking like I am pls

ALWAYS. WATCHING.​

This is how I've been teaching some of my friends to get better, and it has provided some good results as far as their execution goes. They're much more fluid players. But they still need time with actual matches and beating sorely beaten in order to figure out the decision making processes of when to use the techniques.

I could get used to being beaten badly. I'm starting to get really soft; not l-cancelling correctly, getting way too much hangtime, not fastfalling and wavelanding... ugh, I need to brush up.

 

[trojanpooh]

making assertions about people's behavior is always going to upset some number of people. cheers to hoping that my critics analyze my ideas and help me refine them without bludgeoning me to death with semantics or obvious exceptions.

I'm not going to go into huge detail because psychology isn't exactly my area of expertise, but I am interested in the general pursuit of knowledge and do have a solid understanding of gender roles so I'll take a crack at explaining why your assertions are wrong. Basically plain and simple recent studies have shown that men and women aren't nearly as different as old "science" would have us believe. Just like way back in the day there were respected academic works that explained how blacks were less intelligent, many of the studies on gender are skewed by culture. As much as I don't particularly respect sociology as a field for the most part, environment does form people and stereotypes and societal roles affect the brain. There have been cultures in the past where women have taken on "masculine" jobs and vice versa in every day life, the only reason we associate certain behaviors with women is because that's the way our culture is. Sensitive men aren't more feminine and competitive women aren't masculine, they're just men and women who don't fit an artificial template made to define the way they "should" be.

Obviously there are a few tiny exceptions, but nearly all of them fall under the category of sexuality, something that is rarely on the top of someones mind when they're playing Smash Bros.

 

[NameChange]

Someone should get a female gamer and let her read this thread

 

[Fortress]

Someone should get a female gamer and let her read this thread

My girlfriend just told me I'm an idiot and that we're a bunch of idiots.

 

[trash?]

Is it wrong how I try and teach my roommates, in that case? I'll pull up a progame of somebody who mains the same character as them, sit them down and have them watch it with me, and when something like L-cancelling a certain move or doing things like wavelanding come up, I take them into training mode, tell them what that thing was and why it was important, and have them do it with me for about ten minutes?

I feel like that kind of 'drilling' has really helped...

that's not really hand holding though. hand holding is telling someone absolutely everything and not letting them learn to adapt on their own, whereas you're going about it like "hey, you can do THIS in THESE situations, but figuring out those situations is still on you"

the worst thing you can do to a new player is not let them learn to perceive and adapt on their own. those two things basically kickstart the understanding of fundamentals, gotta let their own concepts grow when they learn.

 

[GHNeko]

Someone should get a female gamer and let her read this thread

That'd be a pretty bad idea. lol.

We don't need another Milktea.

 

[Paradoxium]

Someone should get a female gamer and let her read this thread

What's wrong with male players reading this thread? What do you think males aren't good enough to perform this task? That this is a "Ladies First" scenario? You should knock off your attitude and your "separation of sexes" mentality. It is corroding the community as we speak and in doing so you have reduced yourself to the miniscule feces of a mere bacterium with an improper amount of chromosomes. Your a disease to the community

 

[Fortress]

that's not really hand holding though. hand holding is telling someone absolutely everything and not letting them learn to adapt on their own, whereas you're going about it like "hey, you can do THIS in THESE situations, but figuring out those situations is still on you"

the worst thing you can do to a new player is not let them learn to perceive and adapt on their own. those two things basically kickstart the understanding of fundamentals, gotta let their own concepts grow when they learn.

I thought your post count on your profile was a "?".

 

[\Apples]

My girlfriend just told me I'm an idiot and that we're a bunch of idiots.

How can you do this to me?

 

[meow]

OMG GIRL GAMER???
girl bites remote control and takes selfie