TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[xepherthree]

Lol. That is the correct answer...
*takes foot out of his mouth*
But DK isn't attacking that. Hes attacking Roy who happens to have a sword.
I'm just pointing out DK will tough out those jabs if it means killing Roy.

Spoiler

Who needs brains to be a leader anyway? since 2000 any dummy can be president; Oozaru for our next president!

I know he's not >_< I was just giving an example because you don't understand the concept.
RELAX THE WRIST.
In this situation, the sword being knocked out of Roy's hand/broken wrist/anything negative happening to Roy other than some recoil represents the weeble falling down.
Weebles don't fall down.
The spikes were there to represent the fact that the part that hit the sword was cut to the bone.

 

[Nova9000]

For DK to swat the sword, DK would need to predict how and when Roy swings/jabs/slashes/purees the sword.

I don't see DK predicting very well.

Heck, intelligence could very well drive DK to rush Roy which is a bad thing.
Roy predicts and reacts to pretty much kill this tactic and DK.

Roy is more agile and skilled, along with a reliable weapon.
Roy has a greater chance of winning and avoiding/defending from DK

DK is more of a brute, but lacks agility and skill.
DK has less of a chance at winning and avoiding/defending against a sword.

@Nova
History doesn't really have many examples of medievil warriors against gorillas due to geography >_>
Poachers are probably the only people who've used "swords" against em'
But they really only used machetes.

He probably won't predict well at all.
But what I am saying is that how do you predict a gorilla?
Dk is stronger anatomically than a human and also agile for a gorilla.
So how can you set a standard for DK when swordsmen don't fight gorillas?
Poachers jumped gorillas and even then it wasn't a land slide thing.
DK would understand that Roy has a sword which is deadly.
But just because he has the sword doesn't make him a winner by any means; swords don't make men warriors.
Roy would get his jabs/slash/burning attacks in and DK would tough them out and beat his head into the ground.

I know he's not >_< I was just giving an example because you don't understand the concept.
RELAX THE WRIST.
In this situation, the sword being knocked out of Roy's hand/broken wrist/anything negative happening to Roy other than some recoil represents the weeble falling down.
Weebles don't fall down.
The spikes were there to represent the fact that the part that hit the sword was cut to the bone.

So swords cut gorilla bone?
Fail.
I understand your concept, But DK is aftey Roy, **** the sword.
And may Adum correct me if I'm wrong, but most great swords were two-handed.
You sure Roy has one of those?

 

[adumbrodeus]

He probably won't predict well at all.
But what I am saying is that how do you predict a gorilla?
Dk is stronger anatomically than a human and also agile for a gorilla.
So how can you set a standard for DK when swordsmen don't fight gorillas?
Poachers jumped gorillas and even then it wasn't a land slide thing.
DK would understand that Roy has a sword which is deadly.
But just because he has the sword doesn't make him a winner by any means; swords don't make men warriors.
Roy would get his jabs/slash/burning attacks in and DK would tough them out and beat his head into the ground.

You don't have to predict the gorilla, with proper spacing DK won't be able to attack until well after Roy see the attempt. This includes attempts to get a closer spacing.


And the spacing precision that is needed is a matter of intelligence and training, a monkey is not gonna be able to maintain it.


As far as the making men warriors, no, training does, that was standard training for rulers of the era, and his gametime gave more then enough to show he had considerable experience.


And yes, please "tough out" your hand being lopped off, see what good that does you. Yes, Roy can casually inflict devistating injuries. So can DK, the problem with him is that he's not gonna be in a position to do so.



And poachers suck honestly, they're not trained warriors, they have inconsistent regimes, they're mostly trackers. A trained warrior will be much better.


Basically, animals are stronger, but we can compete and consistently defeat most animals with melee weapons and training, even using less advanced weapons then this. Understand, this is the reason that humanity survived in the first place, animal>human, but human with weapon >> animal in almost all cases.

The exceptions are all particularly dangerous carnivores or herbivores that can be taken down in small groups. Gorillas aren't even particularly high up on the list, we've been beating them out of their territory for pretty much the whole of human existence.


This only adds credence to the fact that Roy's weapon-fighting style is precisely what is most dangerous to a raging gorilla.

So swords cut gorilla bone?
Fail.
I understand your concept, But DK is aftey Roy, **** the sword.
And may Adum correct me if I'm wrong, but most great swords were two-handed.
You sure Roy has one of those?

Through thinner bone yes it will cut through, thicker bone it'll crush.


You misunderstood, it was suggested that he'd be able to deflect the sword and break Roy's wrist, that post disagreed.


Greatswords are by definition two handed, however if you look at the sword of seals and compare his height to the sword and it's overall proportions it's obviously a greatsword.

 

[REL38]

So Roy wins.

DK can't tank sword slashes/jabs.
DK can't safely approach.
DK can't counter.
DK can't go bananas/primal rage/king kong to win.

Roy wins
85-15

Gg's

 

[Nova9000]

You don't have to predict the gorilla, with proper spacing DK won't be able to attack until well after Roy see the attempt. This includes attempts to get a closer spacing.


And the spacing precision that is needed is a matter of intelligence and training, a monkey is not gonna be able to maintain it.


As far as the making men warriors, no, training does, that was standard training for rulers of the era, and his gametime gave more then enough to show he had considerable experience.


And yes, please "tough out" your hand being lopped off, see what good that does you. Yes, Roy can casually inflict devistating injuries. So can DK, the problem with him is that he's not gonna be in a position to do so.



And poachers suck honestly, they're not trained warriors, they have inconsistent regimes, they're mostly trackers. A trained warrior will be much better.


Basically, animals are stronger, but we can compete and consistently defeat most animals with melee weapons and training, even using less advanced weapons then this. Understand, this is the reason that humanity survived in the first place, animal>human, but human with weapon >> animal in almost all cases.

The exceptions are all particularly dangerous carnivores or herbivores that can be taken down in small groups. Gorillas aren't even particularly high up on the list, we've been beating them out of their territory for pretty much the whole of human existence.


This only adds credence to the fact that Roy's weapon-fighting style is precisely what is most dangerous to a raging gorilla.





Through thinner bone yes it will cut through, thicker bone it'll crush.


You misunderstood, it was suggested that he'd be able to deflect the sword and break Roy's wrist, that post disagreed.


Greatswords are by definition two handed, however if you look at the sword of seals and compare his height to the sword and it's overall proportions it's obviously a greatsword.

Whateva you say Samurai Jack...

http://www.coldsteel.com/twohandedgreat.html

Dk dies by Roy.

Oozaru still *****.

 

[JOE!]

http://www.eternalemblem.net/art/FE6_OA/Roy.jpg

hmn, how tall is roy? his sword looks a tad short to me for somethign that should be a greatsword (not exatcly pertaining to the MU, but Roy in general)

also, could his swings really crush Ape Bone?

 

[Nova9000]

http://www.eternalemblem.net/art/FE6_OA/Roy.jpg

hmn, how tall is roy? his sword looks a tad short to me for somethign that should be a greatsword (not exatcly pertaining to the MU, but Roy in general)

also, could his swings really crush Ape Bone?

That's what I questioned. that and also if he really has one then he has to use two hands, thus making more commitment in his moves. I know samurai swords can slice through bone because they're made to do so, but greatswords i'm not too sure of in tht regiment.

But all that's gonna be said is what swords do against humans which is practically a standstill.
Our Boi was gonna win regardless as long as Adum makes a stand. But idk how tall Roy is; all I know is he's 15.

 

[JOE!]

if he's 15, does that not mean he wouldnt be fully developed, thus not *as* effective with the sword?

 

[orange/xd]

Roy would win imo

 

[JOE!]

Roy would win imo

thank you for the explanation of why ROy would pwn Dk. It was very insightful

 

[tocador]

Even tho im always biased towards DK, i dont really think he can win.

A swordsman as roy is, has at least some battle experience, and so, a man with a sword versus a weapon-less animal shouldnt be that fair of a fight.

Roy as a experienced fighter knows how to space properly and has some good capability of countering moves DK throw at him like a body slam, or mindlessly jumps, plus, a sword in the heart/head can be fatal for our monkey =/.

But then we have this, a average gorila is 4 times stronger, and 1.5(approx) times faster than your average human, meaning if dk can hold roy's sword as he swings, he would be able to rip it off from roy's hands and proceed to ape-****. And actually being faster than roy, its all up on roy's reaction time time try to catch DK.

Shame on me to say this, but roy actually is a fighter, a dam good one, cause he is a swordsman, so he should have above average reflexes, and combined with good a good sword strike DK should be gone for good.

TL;DR > Shiz ma sword DK.

 

[tocador]

Hey look, nova has my 1337 quote from true to their games :D. Ausom!

 

[UncleSam]

oh god not with the double posts again.

Nia thinks you should stop.
or should I start speaking in japanese?

 

[REL38]

Hey look, nova has my 1337 quote from true to their games :D. Ausom!

So using a Master Ball to catch Lucario makes Mario worse than any Pokemon according to Nova. (Mario<any pokemon)

lololololololo

Edit:

The quote's from The Deadliest Brawler

lololololololfailololol

:/

Roy wins
Done

 

[tocador]

I like double posting D:!!!!

Im almost sure nova putted the > the wrong way :D.... yeah prollly not, i dont remember what i posted after the sequence there .

 

[REL38]

I like double posting D:!!!!

Im almost sure nova putted the > the wrong way :D.... yeah prollly not, i dont remember what i posted after the sequence there .

Nova be cuttin' up

Btw
Roy wins.
Why's it still up

:/

:\

:|

 

[xepherthree]

So swords cut gorilla bone?
Fail.
I understand your concept, But DK is aftey Roy, **** the sword.
And may Adum correct me if I'm wrong, but most great swords were two-handed.
You sure Roy has one of those?

FAIL.
Read the post again.
Note how it says "to the bone."
"to the bone."
"to the "
"to "
Sorry,, but To=/=Through
Example?
Take a long piece of steel, and sharpen to ridiculous amounts(touch=cut). Then attach it to a wall
Stand next to the steel, and backhand the edge as hard as you can.
That's What DK does.
Note how the steel(blade) and the wall(Roy's hand) aren't affected.

 

[JOE!]

but the problem is, why would Roy be holding it in the heat of battle against a giant ape in a manner that he wouldn't be swinging it? He would have the blade vertically, not horizontally, meaning a quick slap from DK would most likely hit the flat end, unless Roy holds a greatsword horizontally...

this is what i haven't been getting.

also, wayyyy back during Ike vs Ganon (round 1 :O) it was said that if they clashed swords, Ganon's strength would make Ike's arms = major owies as they take the force. Why is a swat from Donkey Kong[/i] not gonna do anything to Roy, even if it is lax?

Hold a ruler in your hand (or a yardstick) and have your buddy kick it. See how your arm reacts and you react if you had like a split second to prevent your buddy from tackling you, if you only had that yardstick.

now imagine the yardstick being 100x heavier, and the kick 3x harder.


I'm not really even focusing on the MU anymore as much as this scenario, which may come into play VS other Sword vs Not Sword fights.

For example, someone has gauntlets on and wont get cut/badly injured if they try and deflect the blow with them, then close in. Etc, etc...

in short, are there -not- options non-sword characters have against sword wielders that arent simply ranged or better melee weapons? (flayl, but nobody has one here...)

 

[Nova9000]

So using a Master Ball to catch Lucario makes Mario worse than any Pokemon according to Nova. (Mario<any pokemon)

lololololololo

Edit:

The quote's from The Deadliest Brawler

lololololololfailololol

:/

Roy wins
Done

I like double posting D:!!!!

Im almost sure nova putted the > the wrong way :D.... yeah prollly not, i dont remember what i posted after the sequence there .

Nova be cuttin' up

Btw
Roy wins.
Why's it still up

:/

:\

:|

I'm such a failure....fixed though...

FAIL.
Read the post again.
Note how it says "to the bone."
"to the bone."
"to the "
"to "
Sorry,, but To=/=Through
Example?
Take a long piece of steel, and sharpen to ridiculous amounts(touch=cut). Then attach it to a wall
Stand next to the steel, and backhand the edge as hard as you can.
That's What DK does.
Note how the steel(blade) and the wall(Roy's hand) aren't affected.

Didn't you see the other post I had last page saying Roy wins?
I fail again, but thx 4 adding salt to the wounds of fail.

 

[REL38]

but the problem is, why would Roy be holding it in the heat of battle against a giant ape in a manner that he wouldn't be swinging it? He would have the blade vertically, not horizontally, meaning a quick slap from DK would most likely hit the flat end, unless Roy holds a greatsword horizontally...

Would Roy hold it vertically?
Why not angled?
At his side?
Or horizontally?

More so, why would Roy be that close to DK?
He'd be spacing and in no way close enough for DK to swing. Better yet, he'd more than likely act upon DK's mistakes. DK makes a swing at Roy while he slashes DK's arm from the lag. DK wouldn't be intelligent enough to know how to space well. He'd throw out arm swings to intimidate. Gorrillas do that sort of stuff.

this is what i haven't been getting.

also, wayyyy back during Ike vs Ganon (round 1 :O) it was said that if they clashed swords, Ganon's strength would make Ike's arms = major owies as they take the force. Why is a swat from Donkey Kong[/i] not gonna do anything to Roy, even if it is lax?

Would that have reallly happened? That was back when people thought lasers worked IRL :/

Besides, two swords clashing isn't the same as a sword clashing bare flesh, no matter what the strength. If DK were to backhand while Roy swings, then the wound we deepen even more. Also, Gorillla's don't directly translate all of their strength through a back or slap. Their strength shines when they push and pull.
The better question is why is Roy trying to clash his sword with DK's backhand?
He wouldn't.
DK wouldn't even predict a slash anyways.


Hold a ruler in your hand (or a yardstick) and have your buddy kick it. See how your arm reacts and you react if you had like a split second to prevent your buddy from tackling you, if you only had that yardstick.

now imagine the yardstick being 100x heavier, and the kick 3x harder.

Not a very good analogy.
A ruler is flimsy and a kick is different from a backhand.

Next, what makes you believe DK has ample time to backhand a blade and go for a tackle in the matter of a second?
RL gorillas don't do that when they fight each other.
Heck, DK would probably attempt to swing at Roy.

Now, if Roy were to lose his sword, then would DK be able to capitalize?
Roy is comparitively more agile than DK in dodging and quick movements.
DK swings and suffers from lag while Roy regains his sword which is on the ground.
w00t
Now Roy wouldn't do something as silly as terribly space. Something that wouldn't be happening anways.


I'm not really even focusing on the MU anymore as much as this scenario, which may come into play VS other Sword vs Not Sword fights.

For example, someone has gauntlets on and wont get cut/badly injured if they try and deflect the blow with them, then close in. Etc, etc...

in short, are there -not- options non-sword characters have against sword wielders that arent simply ranged or better melee weapons? (flayl, but nobody has one here...)

Uh, not really :/

Electrolaser > Range weapon >>>>>>> Swords >>>>> Close Range

@Nova
Why you gotta stretch the page be so mean to yourself?

 

[Beren Zaiga]

*Sigh* Brute vs. Swordsman...Okay.

First let me quote the Gorilla Article.

Gorillas are closely related to humans and are considered highly intelligent. A few individuals in captivity, such as Koko, have been taught a subset of sign language (see animal language for a discussion).

If a gorilla is capable of learning a form of sign language, they are certainly more intelligent than those of you defending Roy are putting on.

However, for the Roy side, how strong DK actually is compared to Roy is questionable. No true conclusive study has been made to document the arm strength of gorillas in general, so how strong DK actually is in comparison to Roy is a mystery. The only things out there are speculations, which stem from the lack of conclusive studies. For all we know for sure, DK could be anywhere form two to four times as strong as Roy or even more. Until such a study is conductive with conclusive results and evidence, we will never know.

However, based on size, I would say DK is around maybe the average 3 times are physically powerful as Roy is.

Also, in the picture shown on the last page (or page before that, not counting right now) is a rapier or some similar kind of blade which is strapped to his belt in the sheath, not a great sword. You are therefore implying Roy does not have the Sword of Seals, which is more of a longsword, considering he wields it with one hand. Ike is the only one among the trio that actually wields a great sword.

If it were a great sword, it would be heavier than a longsword, and would take more force for Roy to swing around than a longsword. You cannot jab effectively with a greatsword because of its weight. It would physically tax Roy more to Jab with a greatsword, which is heavier, than say a rapier or longsword. They are typically of lighter weight.

In fact, I may have found an organization that knows a bit about greatswords.

The Greatsword - The Greatsword was a massive, two handed Medieval sword

The Greatsword had a two-edged blade measuring 2-3 inches wide at the base which tapered to a point

The length of the Greatsword ranged from 50 - 72 inches

The Greatsword handle that measured 18 - 21 inches in additional length

The extended handle of the greatsword allowed the blade to be held in two hands

The Medieval Greatsword weighed between 6 - 10 pounds

It was used as close contact weapon and capable of striking a massive blow

The weapon was primarily used for cutting or slicing an opponent and was capable of cutting off the limbs or head of an enemy in one stroke

Uh oh, if you ask me, it doesn't look very good for either side of the fight. If Roy is trained in a greatsword, then it is too heavy to jab with it without it being physically taxing as opposed to slashing with it. Holding a sword in a position for jabbing IRL is tougher than it is in a game.

I am not however saying that DK wins this, but Roy's chances of stopping a gorilla that is about his size or more from tackling him if he purely thinks of him as a beast are not likely, if DK somehow pins down Roy in any way possible that hinders the effective movement of his arms, DK can have a field day with him, maybe even crush him under foot.

Roy on the other hand however, has quite a few options, but has never faced a gorilla before, and chances are that DK might try intimidating him before he decides to attack, because as highly intelligent as gorillas are, he is still a beast by nature. So he will try scaring Roy away. Roy however, has been described as calm and cunning, so chances are that will not work.

There is another option DK has, but the situation has to be favorable for it to be effective. Gorillas have canines, like we do, so biting is an option for him, but he would either have to catch Roy off his guard or pinned down in order to make a killing blow with it. There is also the fact that Roy's plate armor does not extend over his entire body. This makes him arms vulnerable as opposed to his sword, and his legs are not much better.

If DK goes for Roy's legs somehow, chances are that they could break or be put under pressure to the point of producing stress fractures, weakening them. The forearm up is also vulnerable due to lack of armor, DK could probably break his bones or crush them.

Roy may be clever, but he has never faced a gorilla, so chances are he has no idea how to deal with one.

Another thing thing to note is that it has been documented that silverback gorilla group leaders have been known to fight to the death with one another. This shows, that in their own way, they know plenty well how to fight.

 

[Sieguest]

also, wayyyy back during Ike vs Ganon (round 1 :O) it was said that if they clashed swords, Ganon's strength would make Ike's arms = major owies as they take the force. Why is a swat from Donkey Kong[/i] not gonna do anything to Roy, even if it is lax?

Because the force from Ganon has less impulse, it lasts a much longer time than DK's swat... which is why Ike's hand suffers...

DK, couldn't think about trying to push his hand against a blade a for too long, Roy would just flip the blade to cut him.

 

[JOE!]

gonna go into DK for a second here:

VS

http://cghub.com/files/Image/003001-004000/3851/203_realsize.jpg
(page is stretched enough, click the link to see it)

if you compare the two, DK seems to sport the musculature of both humans and Gorrilas.

judging by the way his shoulders and pecs are shaped more like a human's rather than a gorilla's, Id say it could be safe to say that this ape can swing a punch much lieka human could, and with those pecs, triceps and back mucles, being hit is something everyone should fear from him.

Combine the fact that according to almost all media he is over 6feet:

(cartoony, yes, but pauline = peach essentially, and peach is tallish, a good foot or so above mario who is 5', with DK being taller still...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRO1re9jJCE

this vid (while shakey) shows a more recent size comparison, which shows DK is about 6ft even when not standing up, and just on all 4's. His arms alone take up about 5/6ths of his height, so his reach must be in the 5' area...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVWnwPml7aY
if you want another (slightly less canonical) appearance to guess height: Lil mac is said to be 5'7" in the Wii Punch-Out!

anyways, what we got here is a character with a 5ft + reach, who WILL overpower anyone essentially if he gets his hands on em, and will likley tear them to shreds with his ape-like musculature.

Now as for Roy, I am not doubting his skill with the sword, but lets look at his features for a second:

Roy is a 15 year old kid, who likley isnt fully developed musculature wise, and is depicted as
not being exceptionally tall or muscular for his age. He is probably around 5'5" and 130 lbs.

As for his sword, combined with his arm length he is gonna have a reach comparable to that of DK's own, allthough his has a disjointed Hitbox.

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Roy

looking at his history, Roy is said to have been off "studying" when he got called to battle, and is very clever and cunning. That being said, does he actually posses proper training with the sword like Marth and Ike do? Sure he gets the sword of seals and stuff, but he also has party members and matures into a lord very late compared to the other protagonists in the FE series... Evidence that he may not be up to par Swordsmanship-wise?

anywho, thats rather controversial and bringing up backstory a bit too much. But theres no doubt he is smarter than DK (who isnt *that* dumb, I mean look at the DKC game where he has to deal with all kinds of stuff that solidifies he would have some smarts other than how to find bananas).

But on the other hand, other things show that DK vastly outperforms Roy in all other aspects besides brainpower and having a weapon on hand (unless there is a convienent barrel..).

Having just about the same reach, range isnt exactly the main issue, as both are deadly at the same range just about. So now lets looka t what each can do to each other:

-Roy can slice at DK and inflic some nice owies on him if he "spaces" right, but DK is bigger and faster due to being a phenominal physical specimen, even if he is bulky.

-If DK gets a hold of Roy, the match is essentially over as Dk can essentially toy with him all he wants with his phenominal strength. For example, grabbing his non-sword arm and tossing Roy aside could very well dislocate Roy's shoulder. Better yet, grabbing him and slamming him to the ground could not only do some damage but disorient Roy, leading to more blows and eventually death.

-Roy on the other hand can only hit the head or chest of DK to land a 1HKO, where anywhere else will either be just an injury, or honsetly shurgged off as DK's thick hair/fur, muscle mass and fat (mammal) will probably help with softening a blow to the point where it isnt "loses a whole arm" type of deal.

-if DK ever lands a hit on the much smaller Roy, or even worse, gets a hold of him, ROy is essentially screwed as DK can break his bones, bite him, or just slam him around too fast for Roy to get a good, accurate swing in.

-Having similar range, but being out manuevered by DK leaves little room for mistake for Roy, who has no history of extensive sword training other than his experience of being thrust into military service. 1 mess up from Roy means DK kills him.

-Roy could probably trick DK into getting a hit, but DK's agility and long reach could turn the tables if he say, grabs Roy's leg and trips him as he tries to attack.



TL;DR:

DK is a big ******* with comparable range to Roy. Roy's only advantages over DK are his weapon and his Cunning. DK outclasses Roy in every other aspect, and can take some hits from Roy whereas 1 hit from DK could very well mean Death to Roy, as he is Knocked over or worse: Grabbed by a giant gorrila who wants to, and probably could, tear him in half.

Thats not to say it would be tricky for DK to grab Roy past a sword being swung, even if he isnt an *expert* like Marth or ike

 

[Sieguest]

gonna go into DK for a second here:

VS

http://cghub.com/files/Image/003001-004000/3851/203_realsize.jpg
(page is stretched enough, click the link to see it)

if you compare the two, DK seems to sport the musculature of both humans and Gorrilas.

judging by the way his shoulders and pecs are shaped more like a human's rather than a gorilla's, Id say it could be safe to say that this ape can swing a punch much lieka human could, and with those pecs, triceps and back mucles, being hit is something everyone should fear from him.

Combine the fact that according to almost all media he is over 6feet:

(cartoony, yes, but pauline = peach essentially, and peach is tallish, a good foot or so above mario who is 5', with DK being taller still...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRO1re9jJCE

this vid (while shakey) shows a more recent size comparison, which shows DK is about 6ft even when not standing up, and just on all 4's. His arms alone take up about 5/6ths of his height, so his reach must be in the 5' area...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVWnwPml7aY
if you want another (slightly less canonical) appearance to guess height: Lil mac is said to be 5'7" in the Wii Punch-Out!

anyways, what we got here is a character with a 5ft + reach, who WILL overpower anyone essentially if he gets his hands on em, and will likley tear them to shreds with his ape-like musculature.

Now as for Roy, I am not doubting his skill with the sword, but lets look at his features for a second:

Roy is a 15 year old kid, who likley isnt fully developed musculature wise, and is depicted as
not being exceptionally tall or muscular for his age. He is probably around 5'5" and 130 lbs.

As for his sword, combined with his arm length he is gonna have a reach comparable to that of DK's own, allthough his has a disjointed Hitbox.

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Roy

looking at his history, Roy is said to have been off "studying" when he got called to battle, and is very clever and cunning. That being said, does he actually posses proper training with the sword like Marth and Ike do? Sure he gets the sword of seals and stuff, but he also has party members and matures into a lord very late compared to the other protagonists in the FE series... Evidence that he may not be up to par Swordsmanship-wise?

anywho, thats rather controversial and bringing up backstory a bit too much. But theres no doubt he is smarter than DK (who isnt *that* dumb, I mean look at the DKC game where he has to deal with all kinds of stuff that solidifies he would have some smarts other than how to find bananas).

But on the other hand, other things show that DK vastly outperforms Roy in all other aspects besides brainpower and having a weapon on hand (unless there is a convienent barrel..).

Having just about the same reach, range isnt exactly the main issue, as both are deadly at the same range just about. So now lets looka t what each can do to each other:

-Roy can slice at DK and inflic some nice owies on him if he "spaces" right, but DK is bigger and faster due to being a phenominal physical specimen, even if he is bulky.

-If DK gets a hold of Roy, the match is essentially over as Dk can essentially toy with him all he wants with his phenominal strength. For example, grabbing his non-sword arm and tossing Roy aside could very well dislocate Roy's shoulder. Better yet, grabbing him and slamming him to the ground could not only do some damage but disorient Roy, leading to more blows and eventually death.

-Roy on the other hand can only hit the head or chest of DK to land a 1HKO, where anywhere else will either be just an injury, or honsetly shurgged off as DK's thick hair/fur, muscle mass and fat (mammal) will probably help with softening a blow to the point where it isnt "loses a whole arm" type of deal.

-if DK ever lands a hit on the much smaller Roy, or even worse, gets a hold of him, ROy is essentially screwed as DK can break his bones, bite him, or just slam him around too fast for Roy to get a good, accurate swing in.

-Having similar range, but being out manuevered by DK leaves little room for mistake for Roy, who has no history of extensive sword training other than his experience of being thrust into military service. 1 mess up from Roy means DK kills him.

-Roy could probably trick DK into getting a hit, but DK's agility and long reach could turn the tables if he say, grabs Roy's leg and trips him as he tries to attack.



TL;DR:

DK is a big ******* with comparable range to Roy. Roy's only advantages over DK are his weapon and his Cunning. DK outclasses Roy in every other aspect, and can take some hits from Roy whereas 1 hit from DK could very well mean Death to Roy, as he is Knocked over or worse: Grabbed by a giant gorrila who wants to, and probably could, tear him in half.

Thats not to say it would be tricky for DK to grab Roy past a sword being swung, even if he isnt an *expert* like Marth or ike

My few points now...

1. Despite range, all of DK's range is open flesh, Roy can still hit him, DK has to reach past a length of damaging material to get to his target, Roy can hit his target straight on, even while DK can reach...because he has to reach past a sword...

2. Although Bulky, DK is not a tank, this makes him seem like he won't react to getting cut and just continue to reach towards Roy, inital reaction to stimuli in which pain is inflicted upon a target is to pull away from the stimulus unless conditioned otherwise, and I doubt DK is conditioned like that.

3. All of DK's approaches are jeopardized by being cut and referring to point 2 leading eventually into DK perishing of multiple wounds.

4. DK can't apply a force to Roy's sword and break his hand like Ganondorf did to Ike due to the reasons in my previous post.

 

[REL38]

Paulina was a brunette.
That auto makes the pic faaaaaaarrrrr less credible

Srsly though ~desu
There's no question that DK would crush Roy if he bypassed the sword desu. Roy stands zero chance if DK hits or grabs him.

But Roy is winning this because he knows and can space wherelse DK is relying off of primal instinct which means his only focus is hitting Roy; not dodging attacks ~desu.

Through this, Roy will get off easy hits from DK making mistakes such as lunging forward or capitalizing on the lag of DK's swings ~desu. Intelligence of an ape will make him more weary of an approach ~desu.

Attacked animal = less likely to blatently attack ~desu

To elaborate, if a jaguar is attacked and threatened with less chance of winning, then it'll go on the defensive which is intimidation/stand ground/less prone to attack ~desu

When DK recieves the cuts/wounds/gnashes from the sword, then DK will attack less often and stand his ground ~desu. By getting hurt, DK can realize enough that he's losing ~desu. The attacks that DK tries to deal will be countered by Roy's spacing game. Because he's intelligent enough to space ~desu. Without it, he'd very well lose (ol' Snake being given a knife against DK ~desu).

On the counter side of being attacked, DK can very well go into what you guys deem as "Monkey Rage" where he'll just blindly charge and attack ~desu.
What does Roy do?
Roll and dodge while DK blindly attacks ~desu.
Much of the range from "Monkey Range" will be focus directly in front of DK with little to none at his sides ~desu.
With the range his sword offers, Roy gets off a slash or so from dodging ~desu. DK becomes more desperate at the same time tiring out faster alongside bleeding wounds ~desu. Roy can dodge well enough to wear DK out and continue his spacing game.


I see Roy relying heavily on being patient with well spaced out attacks to wear DK down.
A hit from DK is a OHKO, but has no safe approach where any slash will make him retract ~desu.
A hit from Roy can be deadly (depending on inflicted area ~desu) or take its toll in the long run from continual slashes, but he must space with extreme caution.

All in all, I see Roy coming out on top because he can accomplish such as task by being human ~desu.
He can process the situation and time, execute and plan out attacks as well as know how to effectively defend.
Sure, he didn't become high lord or w/e, but his skill was forged throughout the game ~desu. That's well enough evidence to draw his skill from.
He's only 15, sure ~desu.
But when a teenager physically dedicates oneself to a sport/art, they shine well enough to compete with adults ~desu.

DK is faster than a human, sure ~desu.
But that's by speed that needs to be built up. Neither are running a marathon here.
DK hitting is a OHKO, sure ~desu.
But Roy can outspace him ~desu.
DK has some agility, but dedication of agility is in fighting larger foes that attack head-on ~desu. Not attacks that are precise and almost unpredictable to a gorillas mind ~desu.

DK will not instantly realize that Roy is countering his every attack until it's too late.
Not to mention standing DK will be far easier to counter due to more lag from attacks ~desu.

 

[Sieguest]

My only response to REL

You are abusing the word "desu"
AND you are using it wrong! >:[

GET NAZI'd

 

[REL38]

My only response to REL

You are abusing the word "~desu"
AND you are using it wrong! >:[

GET NAZI'd

Pfft

See my avatar?
That's me having to edit stuff since people gotta complain

Also, Roy already won.
Why's this still up??

DK can't approach unless he ~*Believes*~

 

[Nova9000]

@ Kaka-REL
I posted those as sarcasm.
You and Toc found the flaw in my sig and Xeph failed to see what I posted last page.
Besides, I have a crap load more of posters where that came from...

And thx Beren for finally restating what I said before abour Roy's sword. If he has a great sword, he has to wield it with two hands. Then he has to commit to his swings and he can't effectively jab well.
Also like Beren and JOE! said, Gorillas > Humans anatomically, so they're stronger, faster, agile, ect.
And like I said before, no one fights gorillas with swords because it's too risky with the risk/reward thing. Gorillas are intelligent enough to analyze and develop a plan of attack. Not taking anything away from Roy, but DK isn't a human so stop trying to make him as one.

 

[mars16]

Whats wrong with DK'S aPROACH

 

[adumbrodeus]

And thx Beren for finally restating what I said before abour Roy's sword. If he has a great sword, he has to wield it with two hands. Then he has to commit to his swings and he can't effectively jab well.
Also like Beren and JOE! said, Gorillas > Humans anatomically, so they're stronger, faster, agile, ect.
And like I said before, no one fights gorillas with swords because it's too risky with the risk/reward thing. Gorillas are intelligent enough to analyze and develop a plan of attack. Not taking anything away from Roy, but DK isn't a human so stop trying to make him as one.

You're totally incorrect in just about every way here.


No, you don't have to commit to a jab, you don't understand the basic mechanics.


It's a flick of the wrist and arm that rotates the sword essentially around the center of it's weight. This means that the rest of the sword is only moving minimally and it's really only the tip that gets a lot of momentium, not good for crushing, but fine for quick precise cuts, which is what he's doing.


And you're missing the fact that his attacks require no commitment of the legs, since DK's weapons are in and of themselves targets, he never needs to lunge, which means he can retreat out of every strike and remain safe.


As for humans>gorillas, yes alone, but history undoubtedly shows that humans with weapons >> just about any animal. Also keep in mind that with his hands up his movement speed is greatly hindered (to the point that because of the ackwardness, a human is faster), but with his paws down, his attack speed is hindered and his head is VERY exposed. Even with paws down, he has a great deal more bulk, so he lacks the maneuverability row, he requires much longer to stop and much longer to start motions, and they become less precise.



And we understand they're relatively smart. The problem is, to outspace a swordsman with Roy's background, you can't just be "smart for an animal", you have to have human level intelligence and have this embedded into your muscle memory by continuous training.

If any of you disagree, try fencing now, I guarentee you that against anyone who's done it for a year or more, even if you know the form, you're either gonna miss every attack you throw and get attacked back, or your opponent will strike you when you think you're safe.


Spacing, in real life, just like in smash, is one of the most difficult fighting skills you can get, but those with it DESTROY those without it. Time and time again, I've seen faster, stronger, and more agile people nailed (in fencing and real fights) because they miscalculated the distance they needed and just missed and thought they were safe. And these are people with similar weapons, having a sword against fists, which means the ability to safely threaten DK, is an insane advantage.


Basically, Roy brought a sniper rifle to a knife-fight and nailed his opponent from a mile away.

 

[tocador]

Basically, Roy brought a sniper rifle to a knife-fight and nailed his opponent from a mile away.

Not really, but its ok, we always make a bad comparison here or there xP!

 

[JOE!]

stop bringing up fencing for a kid who got thrust into the military with a longsword.

I doubt the kid will know proper technique when his job is to outwit lycans and blindly swing at grunts of the opposing army with his magical sword.

as for DK and lag, do any of you know how fast gorrillas can move?

well, I did some research, and as it turns out a recording of a Gorilla clocked him at 25 mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED1CZxLR38E

here is a vid showing a Gorilla running relativley fast, notice how the silverback reached this speed almost instantly froma standstill, and later could even roll to avoid an attack mid-rn and retain the speed.

Along with the same big muscles that allow them to do this, DK is bigger overall (more distance per stride), and has even bigger muscles. He shouldnt be seeing any crippling "lag" as Rel puts it.

 

[Sieguest]

stop bringing up fencing for a kid who got thrust into the military with a longsword.

I doubt the kid will know proper technique when his job is to outwit lycans and blindly swing at grunts of the opposing army with his magical sword.

Stop trying to deny the kid learned something while he was in the military... because-

Roy's a lord, lords use rapiers, rapiers are used in fencing... remember that he didn't get the sword of seals until later, up until that point, his first weapon was a rapier, as such, he must've developed fencing skills.

 

[REL38]

Being thrust into battle or not, he became a high ranking w/e which is a lord.
These assumptions of his low skill seem to be continually drawn from when he was still an amature.

@JOE
Speed is for DK.
But unless he's gonna charge his every attack, then that's relatively useless.
Charge at a foe that can dodge a straight-forward attack?
Roy slashes while DK can't immediately stop and change direction by 180*

Success rate for a charge is in the lower percents for DK.
He still needs to pick up speed and it leaves him open.

DK's lag is in his swipes.
Given, not much. But enough for Roy to get in a jab or so.
Much more lag if DK is on two legs.

Roy spaces
Roy spaces
Roy spaces

 

[Sieguest]

Being thrust into battle or not, he became a high ranking w/e which is a lord.
These assumptions of his low skill seem to be continually drawn from when he was still an amature.

Roy was a lord before he was even thrown into battle...
upon acquiring the Sword of Seals, he's upgraded to Master Lord (how original....)

 

[JOE!]

Rel, the speed isnt just for a run, but a demonstration of how fast he can accelerate. The gorilla took literally no time to reach maz speed int hat video, showing the DK can potentially easily retreat and pull the spacing game back on Roy, then easily close in.

All Roy has in this is his sword and cunning, everthing else he gets Pwned at by DK, hell, one bad swipe and DK rushes in and grabs him, then it's over.

Roy cannot space as well against something he cannot retreat faster from than it can charge...if that makes sense

 

[Nova9000]

You're totally incorrect in just about every way here.


No, you don't have to commit to a jab, you don't understand the basic mechanics.


It's a flick of the wrist and arm that rotates the sword essentially around the center of it's weight. This means that the rest of the sword is only moving minimally and it's really only the tip that gets a lot of momentium, not good for crushing, but fine for quick precise cuts, which is what he's doing.


And you're missing the fact that his attacks require no commitment of the legs, since DK's weapons are in and of themselves targets, he never needs to lunge, which means he can retreat out of every strike and remain safe.


As for humans>gorillas, yes alone, but history undoubtedly shows that humans with weapons >> just about any animal. Also keep in mind that with his hands up his movement speed is greatly hindered (to the point that because of the ackwardness, a human is faster), but with his paws down, his attack speed is hindered and his head is VERY exposed. Even with paws down, he has a great deal more bulk, so he lacks the maneuverability row, he requires much longer to stop and much longer to start motions, and they become less precise.



And we understand they're relatively smart. The problem is, to outspace a swordsman with Roy's background, you can't just be "smart for an animal", you have to have human level intelligence and have this embedded into your muscle memory by continuous training.

If any of you disagree, try fencing now, I guarentee you that against anyone who's done it for a year or more, even if you know the form, you're either gonna miss every attack you throw and get attacked back, or your opponent will strike you when you think you're safe.


Spacing, in real life, just like in smash, is one of the most difficult fighting skills you can get, but those with it DESTROY those without it. Time and time again, I've seen faster, stronger, and more agile people nailed (in fencing and real fights) because they miscalculated the distance they needed and just missed and thought they were safe. And these are people with similar weapons, having a sword against fists, which means the ability to safely threaten DK, is an insane advantage.


Basically, Roy brought a sniper rifle to a knife-fight and nailed his opponent from a mile away.

Ok kid. Like I said last page Roy wins. I don't agree with it but you're the swordsman.

Spoiler

Trying to get top 10...stop making tht much harder...

Rel, the speed isnt just for a run, but a demonstration of how fast he can accelerate. The gorilla took literally no time to reach maz speed int hat video, showing the DK can potentially easily retreat and pull the spacing game back on Roy, then easily close in.

All Roy has in this is his sword and cunning, everthing else he gets Pwned at by DK, hell, one bad swipe and DK rushes in and grabs him, then it's over.

Roy cannot space as well against something he cannot retreat faster from than it can charge...if that makes sense

Dk won't win this. Our boi wins against gorillas.

 

[UncleSam]

Dk won't win this. Our boi wins against gorillas.

that picture is 'lol'
and JOE you are trying to make this seem as if Roy is going to run away.
why the **** would he run away.
we have been saying get out of the way, minor adjustments can totally change this and that's how Roy can outspace DK. if DK tries to attack Roy can move out of the way and counterattack with a quick slice or blow.
dealing injuries until he deals a fatal blow or DK just tires out and dies from blood loss or something.

plus if you're charging it's harder to stop

 

[REL38]

Rel, the speed isnt just for a run, but a demonstration of how fast he can accelerate. The gorilla took literally no time to reach maz speed int hat video, showing the DK can potentially easily retreat and pull the spacing game back on Roy, then easily close in.

All Roy has in this is his sword and cunning, everthing else he gets Pwned at by DK, hell, one bad swipe and DK rushes in and grabs him, then it's over.

Roy cannot space as well against something he cannot retreat faster from than it can charge...if that makes sense

So?
A BMW accelerates pretty darn quick too, but that doesn't mean a guy can't jump outta the way :/

DK isn't gonna be retreating.
It goes against his nature of being an Alpha male die hard.
If anything, he'll be standing his ground when he's getting cut up by Roy's spacing game.

DK can't safely approach. He'll get countered by Roy's sword.
In turn, DK's strength is pointless.
DK can't safely charge at Roy. He'll get countered by Roy's sword.
In turn, DK's acceleration and speed is pointless.
DK can't predict attacks/counter-attacks. He can't process prediction like that.
In turn, DK's agility is near pointless.

Roy isn't gonna be running away in the same direction DK's chargin'
This isn't a Bugs Bunny cartoon where Elmer Fudd runs parallel with the falling tree instead of moving to the side where the tree isn't falling.

Roy spaces
Roy spaces
Roy spaces
Roy spaces
Roy spaces

 

[JOE!]

how can he space if Dk is faster, and they have the same range?

all that is standing between Roy and a mauling is his sword, which doesnt have the raw power because of it's type and the fact taht Roy is a kid to stop DK dead in his tracks unless it's a lucky shot.

if DK charges, there is nowhere for Roy to escape to unless he gets him in the head or chest, because a shot to a hand or arm wont do that much as he has a back-up here, and can then grab or hit Roy.