Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Wintermelon43]

Bayonetta has the highest amount of up votes. Is that a good enough reason why they shoudn't have been voted until a few rounds in or next round?

 

[Bowserboy3]

Bayonetta has the highest amount of up votes. Is that a good enough reason why they shoudn't have been voted until a few rounds in or next round?

Even so, it's not the be all/end all of it. If she ends up being too high, we can down vote her next time to get her into a more realistic position.

However, she is clearly above tier 4, so her up votes do make sense (unlike a Jigglypuff or Zelda up vote for example, when the characters are clearly worse than tier 4).

In fact, I may go back and use my +1 Bayonetta vote on somebody else now. Seeing as many other people also agree with me that she is above mid tier, I can use my vote on somebody else.

 

[Thecombosetups]

Back to voting I see.
+ no reason
+
+
+ He is average in all areas
+

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Back to voting I see.
+ no reason
+
+
+ He is average in all areas
+

What do you mean by no reason
Exactly? If it was a counter vote even Browny said wait till next round

 

[Bowserboy3]

Back to voting I see.
+

I'm sorry, I was trying not to reply, so I am keeping it to bare minimum. Jigglypuff is widely considered one of the worst characters in the game, but regardless, in this voting round, all characters are equal to tier 4. You are seriously saying that Jigglypuff is in tier 3 or above?

Jigglypuff is most likely going down now anyway due to her already unanimous -1 votes. If you want to do something about that, wait until next time. +1 voting now will have no effect.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Ness because he is falling out of meta and other characters having more options, people learning how to gimp him alot better etc.
Corrin because I personally found him/her overrated in the sense of how many things you can expand with the character in terms of mix ups.

Ryu because I personally think he should atleast be top 5, pika due to his matchup chart becoming better and Cloud due to M2k.

M2k has not done much with cloud results wise From my knowledge

 

[Yikarur]

Browny Can we get information on what we are basing or votes for Mii's?
A lot of tournaments, including several majors use free mii's or ""optimal" Mii's. They should be voted as such. 1111 doesn't make sense, because no one is ever going to play those characters (so no one can even rate them remotely accurately) and because the rule is arbitrary and bad. Free Mii's have at least a playerbase and something you can base your votes upon.

 

[Browny]

Browny Can we get information on what we are basing or votes for Mii's?
A lot of tournaments, including several majors use free mii's or ""optimal" Mii's. They should be voted as such. 1111 doesn't make sense, because no one is ever going to play those characters (so no one can even rate them remotely accurately) and because the rule is arbitrary and bad. Free Mii's have at least a playerbase and something you can base your votes upon.

Whatever is currently legal. I guess most people are running whatever custom set they want, not sure about mii sizes though.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Haven't checked in a long time on this thread. How exactly are we voting?

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Haven't checked in a long time on this thread. How exactly are we voting?

Any five characters, they're all in mid-tier right now.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Corrin should be ranked right next to the Pits, feels right that way

 

[Routa]

Whatever is currently legal. I guess most people are running whatever custom set they want, not sure about mii sizes though.

Brb gonna change my votes.

So I will vote Miis with + just saying. So if you want to know reasons just ask. Also I believe Swordfighter is about mid tier or higher and Gunner and Brawler in high tier/low high tier with correct sets.

 

[Yikarur]

So we can agree on Guest Mii's + Moves. Everyone should change their Mii vote accordingly if they had something else in mind.
+
+
+
+
+

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

+ - Charizard's gotten enough major tweaks that I think he should move up to the top end of Tier 5, at least, if not up to 4. If customs were on, I'd definitely see Charizard as being in Tier 4.
- - Pikachu has been seeing less and less representation in tournaments, and while he definitely has the tools to be high tier, I don't think his representation makes him Tier 1. Top end of 2, definitely; not Tier 1.

- -Jigglypuff is just as horrid as she was in Brawl, and considering the buffs that other characters have got, and all the new threats, she is even worse off than before. She's Zelda-levels of bad, if not even worse than default Swordfighter. Not helping her is that she hasn't been touched by patches outside of general changes to shieldstun.

+ - The recent buffs Mewtwo was blessed with have made him rocket up in viability, at least IMO. He's still light and floaty, but the buffs have really helped him. He should definitely be moved up over Brawler and Puff.

+ - While still pretty bad, Samus isn't fundamentally horrid. She's not moving up the list in tier, certainly, but again I think she's at least leagues better than Puff and 1111 Brawler.

 

[Thecombosetups]

What do you mean by no reason
Exactly? If it was a counter vote even Browny said wait till next round

Meaning that I just voted her up without reason, plus I just voted because I like her.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Can I just point out we are voting from this basis...

VERSON 3.0 STARTING AT PATCH 1.1.4 (All characters are equal mid tier for first voting period)

Tier 4:

... and not the previous tier list? I'm seeing loads of globally ridiculous votes that make no sense in this context. For example...

+
-
-
+
+

In this period, we are voting for some initial placements. Every character is considered equal at this point, in tier 4. Take the votes from the quote above. If we go by this, apparently, Pikachu is tier 5 or below, and Charizard is tier 3 or above... You see what I am getting at? We aren't using the last tier list as a basis here, we are using the basis that every character is equal in tier 4. Had we been voting off of the previous tier list, the votes I quoted would have made sense, but not here.

Just something to keep in mind for those yet to vote.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

D'oh, my bad on that front. I thought we were still going by initial placements from the last tier list, but simply merged all the tiers in order to restart the organization of it.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The Rise Of Pikachu Falls

 

[Vapo]

+ (Why on Earth are people voting Pika down, do you seriously think they're anything below Tier 2?)
+ (Great G3 representation, underrated imo.)
+ (Not main bias. Tink had great G3 representation with Hyuga beating Nairo and getting 9th, and Zan beating Abadango and getting 33rd.)
- (As much as I love Jiggs, she's bottom 5. The lack of buffs for her throughout this whole game's cycle [except the 1% rest flower buff but who cares about that) is just cementing her in this position.)
- (Mewtwo might be underrated, but he isn't Tier 3 without some major metagame development. Maybe [and that's a big maybe] if you're going off of Japan, but I think he's at the very best right now Tier 5 or lower.)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

+ (Why on Earth are people voting Pika down, do you seriously think they're anything below Tier 2?)
+ (Great G3 representation, underrated imo.)
+ (Not main bias. Tink had great G3 representation with Hyuga beating Nairo and getting 9th, and Zan beating Abadango and getting 33rd.)
- (As much as I love Jiggs, she's bottom 5. The lack of buffs for her throughout this whole game's cycle [except the 1% rest flower buff but who cares about that) is just cementing her in this position.)
- (Mewtwo might be underrated, but he isn't Tier 3 without some major metagame development. Maybe [and that's a big maybe] if you're going off of Japan, but I think he's at the very best right now Tier 5 or lower.)

Noone is saying Pikachu's below Tier 2, just no longer Tier 1...and Villager ain't underrated anymore thanks to Ranai

 

[Vapo]

Noone is saying Pikachu's below Tier 2, just no longer Tier 1...and Villager ain't underrated anymore thanks to Ranai

Even if Pika isn't Tier 1, that's no reason to vote them down like some people have been doing. The downvotes Pika is getting will do nothing but delay Pika's rise to Tier 2.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Even if Pika isn't Tier 1, that's no reason to vote them down like some people have been doing. The downvotes Pika is getting will do nothing but delay Pika's rise to Tier 2.

I'm not sure I the downvotes will work that way...unless bad luck pops up

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Hmm
+
-(buffs helped him a little bit(maybe 1 or two spots, he should stay on the top of tier 5 like the list we have now
-
+
-

 

[Vapo]

-

..........

Not even a reason? Seriously? If Pika ends up below Tier 4 by the time this first phase is done due to random downvotes like these...

 

[IndigoSSB]

..........

Not even a reason? Seriously? If Pika ends up below Tier 4 by the time this first phase is done due to random downvotes like these...

I wouldn't worry too much, I think a lot of people are voting without understanding that we're starting with all all characters in an even playing field. Next phase there'll be a list that's really wack and we can start from there.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

..........

Not even a reason? Seriously? If Pika ends up below Tier 4 by the time this first phase is done due to random downvotes like these...

Whoops, I haven't checked this thread in a while, I thought it was based off the tier list we have now

 

[Flux0r]

Screw it, i'm bored.

+: nuff said.

+: This character has already been more successful in the last 3-5 months, compared to several above him in their lifetime.

-: She has no business being seperated from Zelda and Ganondorf. This character is awful. Non-existent results, horrible match-ups and complete neglect from patches is a recipe for Bottom-Tier.

-: Having the worst frame data in the game will cripple him massively. Monado Arts keeps him from being complete trash, but still dosen't mitigate his sluggish moveset. Poor results and abysmal match-ups against high-tiers is not helping.

-: Massively overhyped at launch. Buffs help, but he still maintains his poor neutral, abysmal disadvantage state and unreliable KO confirms. Some Low-tiers have better results and representation than him.

I would also propose the use of lettering for the tiers, ranging from S-F, like a traditional tier-list. Makes it easier to understand.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

I changed my votes drastically now

 

[Bowserboy3]

Screw it, i'm bored.-: A very good character, but not the third best. A small playerbase and inconsistent performance is damaging. The plumbers apparently wreck him so badly, that ESAM is picking up a secondary.

*bashes head on a wall*

Does ANYBODY read the rules?

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Screw it, i'm bored.

+: nuff said.

+: This character has already been more successful in the last 3-5 months, compared to several above him in their lifetime.

-: She has no business being seperated from Zelda and Ganondorf. This character is awful. Non-existent results, horrible match-ups and complete neglect from patches is a recipe for Bottom-Tier.

-: Having the worst frame data in the game will cripple him massively. Monado Arts keeps him from being complete trash, but still dosen't mitigate his sluggish moveset. Poor results and abysmal match-ups against high-tiers is not helping.

-: A very good character, but not the third best. A small playerbase and inconsistent performance is damaging. The plumbers apparently wreck him so badly, that ESAM is picking up a secondary.

I would also propose the use of lettering for the tiers, ranging from S-F, like a traditional tier-list. Makes it easier to understand.

Shulk has the worst frame data, but he has decent MUs against Rosa. He is not bottom 10, however. Bair is still a good spacing tool and we still have Mallc. I think everyone agreed to have Shulk where he is on this list.

 

[Flux0r]

*bashes head on a wall*

Does ANYBODY read the rules?

I'm sorry ._.

Pikachu should be changed by now.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I'm sorry ._.

Pikachu should be changed by now.

Gah, don't worry about it (if you did attempt to change it, it hasn't btw).

It's just if people vote assuming we are using the previous list (or even the official tier list) as a basis, then we are gonna get skewed results at the end of this voting period. Remember those yet to vote - http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-...ersion-3-begins.379736/page-227#post-20858414

 

[Robertos0511]

Can you explain why you think Shulk should be tier 4? I think his frame data alone makes him much lower than that. In my opinion wherever Marth is in the list, I think Shulk should be at a least a few places lower.

Mainly because I'm imagining a list consisting of about 6 tiers (Personally I'd prefer to divide characters into 3 tiers;Tourney viable, Tourney semi viable and unviable, and then rank characters within those tiers, but I digress). I mainly think that Shulk is bottom of Tier 4 because, despite his frame data, he can actually put up an alright fight against some top tiers (Rosa I'm mainly thinking of), probably because people don't really practice countering monado arts so he can essentially surprise people. He's still absolutely unviable for tournaments, don't get me wrong, I just think that he is as bad as everyone says.

In regards to Marth, I actually just remembered that Marth got some buffs in the latest patch, right? I haven't played much of him lately so I'll have to check him out again. Tbf Shulk probably would be somewhere around Marth's level if it wasn't for Monado Arts, but I feel that they add another element to Shulk's playstyle that can let him surprise people. Tbf though I could live with both Shulk and Roy being demoted to Tier 5, and if they remain in Tier 4 I think both should be at the bottom of it.

What patch have you been playing, 1.0.4? Lucina really isn't that bad, at all, especially after the 1.1.4 buffs she got (shared with Marth).

What tops this off is that you still say that Roy is better than Marth. There is no way that Roy is considerably better than Marth any more at all. Roy lacks safety, something Marth has bucket loads of when spaced correctly. Marth is at least on par with Roy, if not slightly better, but that's by the by. You are entitled to your opinion, so whatever.

Ouch. In fairness, I'd forgotten that they both got some buffs so I'll have to check them out this patch. I mean I never really meant for the gap between Roy and Marth to be that big, I'm mainly talking about a sort of Bottom of tier 4/Top of tier 5 deal here. As for Lucina, no matter what buffs she gets she's always going to be in the shadow of Marth. Since Marth will most likely handle any given situation better than Lucina, I think that makes him quite a bit better than her.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Can we hopefully get some Duck Hunt love?

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

The stage or the character? Because the stage is great.

 

[Xandercosm]

Mainly because I'm imagining a list consisting of about 6 tiers (Personally I'd prefer to divide characters into 3 tiers;Tourney viable, Tourney semi viable and unviable, and then rank characters within those tiers, but I digress). I mainly think that Shulk is bottom of Tier 4 because, despite his frame data, he can actually put up an alright fight against some top tiers (Rosa I'm mainly thinking of), probably because people don't really practice countering monado arts so he can essentially surprise people. He's still absolutely unviable for tournaments, don't get me wrong, I just think that he is as bad as everyone says.

In regards to Marth, I actually just remembered that Marth got some buffs in the latest patch, right? I haven't played much of him lately so I'll have to check him out again. Tbf Shulk probably would be somewhere around Marth's level if it wasn't for Monado Arts, but I feel that they add another element to Shulk's playstyle that can let him surprise people. Tbf though I could live with both Shulk and Roy being demoted to Tier 5, and if they remain in Tier 4 I think both should be at the bottom of it.



Ouch. In fairness, I'd forgotten that they both got some buffs so I'll have to check them out this patch. I mean I never really meant for the gap between Roy and Marth to be that big, I'm mainly talking about a sort of Bottom of tier 4/Top of tier 5 deal here. As for Lucina, no matter what buffs she gets she's always going to be in the shadow of Marth. Since Marth will most likely handle any given situation better than Lucina, I think that makes him quite a bit better than her.

Marth is way better than Shulk.

Better frame data, better MU spread, tipper, more speed. He's just all-around a better character. I don't think Shulk is bottom 10 but probably bottom 20.

 

[Deleted member]

I would also propose the use of lettering for the tiers, ranging from S-F, like a traditional tier-list. Makes it easier to understand.

I agree with this completely.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Can we hopefully get some Duck Hunt love?

I up voted him at least

+1 In case anybody lashes at me for doing a counter-vote, I already planned to upvote her anyway. I like to vote underrated characters for the first round.

+1

+1

+1

+1

Going to change my King Dedede vote to a Ness up vote since he has a score of 0 (One up vote and one down vote) wheras King Dedede has the same score and doesn't actually deserve to go up.

Whatever is currently legal. I guess most people are running whatever custom set they want, not sure about mii sizes though.

Wait, we're voting Miis based on all moves instead of 1111?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I up voted him at least



Going to change my King Dedede vote to a Ness up vote since he has a score of 0 (One up vote and one down vote) wheras King Dedede has the same score and doesn't actually deserve to go up.



Wait, we're voting Miis based on all moves instead of 1111?

That's what we need...Duck Hunt Love

 

[Routa]

Wait, we're voting Miis based on all moves instead of 1111?

Yup