Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[a dog]

At the very least, DK isn't last on the eventhubs tier list. Oh wait yea he is

It's a requirement that bad tier lists always have Donkey Kong at the bottom.

 

[aεrgiα]

It's a requirement that bad tier lists always have Donkey Kong at the bottom.

i beg to differ, i shudder everytime i remember how many times ive seen olimar in last place on tier lists

 

[Wintermelon43]

And then there's the tier lists with Kirby and Jigglypuff in the bottom tier.

 

[Deleted member]

And then there's the tier lists with Kirby and Jigglypuff in the bottom tier.

But Jigglypuff is bottom tier.

 

[Wintermelon43]

But Jigglypuff is bottom tier.

Then give me a reason. One without misconceptions and lies.

 

[Routa]

Then give me a reason. One without misconceptions and lies.

I suggest you to check out
"Official Character Competitive Impressions - Tourneys, Tiers, Theories, Tactics" (yes I'm a dirty copy paste person) thread. There was a big discussion going on about Jiggly couple pages ago. There was also couple none biased Jigglypuff mains talking about her if I remember correctly.
Tbh I would suggest us to move our discussions to there.

 

[Deleted member]

Then give me a reason. One without misconceptions and lies.

Alright.

• Piss-poor endurance, especially vertically.
• Has legit no range. It doesn't help she gets absolutely destroyed by shields and has nothing to challenge them except for Pound, which is a poor option in of itself due to the move's endlag and predictability.
• Since her jumps are her only form of recovery, once she gets gimped or spiked at low percents say goodbye to your stock.
• Her ground game is bad. No way around it. Other than a decent dash attack and okay tilts, all her options are ludicrously poor. Bad grab range, throws with no reward, laggy and predictable smash attacks, the worst set of specials in the entire game, and the slowest walking and dashing speed in the game.
• She cannot deal with disjointed hitboxes at all and gets decimated by most heavyweights because since she's such a fragile character she can die in a few good five to six hits by said heavies. Say hello to characters like , , , , , and .
• She can be punished for pulling off Rest successfully due to it no longer guaranteeing a Star KO, and anybody who's quick enough after respawning can potentially KO her while she's still sleeping.

But yeah, like Routa said better to bring the discussion there. I even talked about Jiggly in this thread a few pages ago. There's just literally nothing to fear about this character.

 

[Xandercosm]

Alright.

• Piss-poor endurance, especially vertically.
• Her ground game is bad. No way around it. Other than a decent dash attack and okay tilts, all her options are ludicrously poor. Bad grab range, throws with no reward, laggy and predictable smash attacks, the worst set of specials in the entire game, and the slowest walking and dashing speed in the game.
• She cannot deal with disjointed hitboxes at all and gets decimated by most heavyweights because since she's such a fragile character she can die in a few good five to six hits. Say hello to characters like , , , and .
• She can be punished for pulling off Rest successfully due to it no longer guaranteeing a Star KO, and anybody who's quick enough after respawning can potentially KO her while she's still sleeping.

But yeah, like Routa said better to bring the discussion there. I even talked about Jiggly in this thread a few pages ago.

I completely agree with everything you said there. In my opinion, Jigglypuff is just a really badly designed character. She was meant to have a high risk-reward ratio but she ended up being a garbage character with a couple moves that are good if you're lucky enough to land them. High risk-reward ratio isn't supposed to decimate a character's other moves just to make up for them having one super powerful move. She needs a complete redesign, to be honest...

 

[Bowserboy3]

Just to add my 2 cents into the Jiggly discussion, the abundance of shield breaks in this game also hurts Jiggly. Characters like Marth, Lucina, Ganon, Bowser, Yoshi, Samus, Ryu etc can all break shields incredibly easy, which only hurts Jigglypuff's defensive options even more, considering she has bad endurance and instant death shield break. But I also agree with most, if not all of the above about Jiggly. Jigglypuff could be pretty good with a couple of tweaks to Rest and a couple of her other moves, but as of now, she is not too great.

• Since her jumps are her only form of recovery, once she gets gimped or spiked at low percents say goodbye to your stock

To add insult to injury, Pound was nerfed in the air, meaning it no longer gets as much horizontal or vertical distance.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Alright.

• Piss-poor endurance, especially vertically.
• Has legit no range. It doesn't help she gets absolutely destroyed by shields and has nothing to challenge them except for Pound, which is a poor option in of itself due to the move's endlag and predictability.
• Since her jumps are her only form of recovery, once she gets gimped or spiked at low percents say goodbye to your stock.
• Her ground game is bad. No way around it. Other than a decent dash attack and okay tilts, all her options are ludicrously poor. Bad grab range, throws with no reward, laggy and predictable smash attacks, the worst set of specials in the entire game, and the slowest walking and dashing speed in the game.
• She cannot deal with disjointed hitboxes at all and gets decimated by most heavyweights because since she's such a fragile character she can die in a few good five to six hits by said heavies. Say hello to characters like , , , , , and .
• She can be punished for pulling off Rest successfully due to it no longer guaranteeing a Star KO, and anybody who's quick enough after respawning can potentially KO her while she's still sleeping.

But yeah, like Routa said better to bring the discussion there. I even talked about Jiggly in this thread a few pages ago. There's just literally nothing to fear about this character.

Jigglypuff can't handle Bowser, Ike, or Pits(understandable)?

 

[Deleted member]

Jigglypuff can't handle Bowser, Ike, or Pits(understandable)?

Nope. All of them destroy her, lol. Ike's Ragnell is massive and helps cover his entire body, and Jigglypuff can't contest due to her own lack of range. Ike can just finish her off with a reasonably quick move like up air, up tilt, or bair or fair. The only advantage she has is getting Ike offstage, which is a challenge in of itself.

Bowser is threatening to Jiggly due to Bowser Bomb being able to OHKO if she's got her shield up, and the high damage output of his moves means Jiggly dies early to pretty much any of his moves around 80-90%. Sure, Bowser's easy to Rest, but there's still a chance he can come back and punish Jiggly even if she lands it.

I assume you have MU experience with Jiggly due to you playing the Pits, so yeah

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Nope. All of them destroy her, lol. Ike's Ragnell is massive and helps cover his entire body, and Jigglypuff can't contest due to her own lack of range. Ike can just finish her off with a reasonably quick move like up air, up tilt, or bair or fair. The only advantage she has is getting Ike offstage, which is a challenge in of itself.

Bowser is threatening to Jiggly due to Bowser Bomb being able to OHKO if she's got her shield up, and the high damage output of his moves means Jiggly dies early to pretty much any of his moves around 80-90%. Sure, Bowser's easy to Rest, but there's still a chance he can come back and punish Jiggly even if she lands it.

I assume you have MU experience with Jiggly due to you playing the Pits, so yeah

The only Jiggs I've ever fought has been @Koiba but I'd lose with Pittoo, yet win with Pit(due to her.. lagginess).

I expected Bowser and Ike to get combo'd offstage, like alot because of her lightness and hop game)

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

On the subject of low tiers, I heard that Mewtwo is being thought of highly in Japan from a different thread. Is there some undiscovered M2 tech??? How could M2 advance the Meta?(if he can)

 

[A10theHero]

On the subject of low tiers, I heard that Mewtwo is being thought of highly in Japan from a different thread. Is there some undiscovered M2 tech??? How could M2 advance the Meta?(if he can)

Yep, in this Japanese tier list, Mewtwo is at the top of B tier. Honestly, to advance the meta, we just need more people playing as him. There's a lot of stigma surrounding him that was spread by top players. While there's some truth to those statements, if played patiently and defensively, Mewtwo can perform well.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Yep, in this Japanese tier list, Mewtwo is at the top of B tier. Honestly, to advance the meta, we just need more people playing as him. There's a lot of stigma surrounding him that was spread by top players. While there's some truth to those statements, if played patiently and defensively, Mewtwo can perform well.

just saw the list, and I can't believe they put last. Xandercosm is going to have a field day with this one.
What Good tools does M2 have anyway???

 

[A10theHero]

just saw the list, and I can't believe they put last. Xandercosm is going to have a field day with this one.
What Good tools does M2 have anyway???

I recommend visiting the Mewtwo Community Guide here on Smashboards. It will give you a better overview of Mewtwo than I ever could, lol.

 

[Furret24]

Alright.

• Piss-poor endurance, especially vertically.
• Has legit no range. It doesn't help she gets absolutely destroyed by shields and has nothing to challenge them except for Pound, which is a poor option in of itself due to the move's endlag and predictability.
• Since her jumps are her only form of recovery, once she gets gimped or spiked at low percents say goodbye to your stock.
• Her ground game is bad. No way around it. Other than a decent dash attack and okay tilts, all her options are ludicrously poor. Bad grab range, throws with no reward, laggy and predictable smash attacks, the worst set of specials in the entire game, and the slowest walking and dashing speed in the game.
• She cannot deal with disjointed hitboxes at all and gets decimated by most heavyweights because since she's such a fragile character she can die in a few good five to six hits by said heavies. Say hello to characters like , , , , , and .
• She can be punished for pulling off Rest successfully due to it no longer guaranteeing a Star KO, and anybody who's quick enough after respawning can potentially KO her while she's still sleeping.

But yeah, like Routa said better to bring the discussion there. I even talked about Jiggly in this thread a few pages ago. There's just literally nothing to fear about this character.

AHHHHH THERES A LIE IN THERE!!!!!!!!

Jigglypuff has the 2nd worst dashing speed in the game, beating out Robin's 1.15 speed by 0.005.

Either way though, you're right about literally everything else. Plus, her dashing speed is still absolutely terrible.

 

[Routa]

AHHHHH THERES A LIE IN THERE!!!!!!!!

Jigglypuff has the 2nd worst dashing speed in the game, beating out Robin's 1.15 speed by 0.005.

Either way though, you're right about literally everything else. Plus, her dashing speed is still absolutely terrible.

Well she has great Dash Attack, Air Game and.... And....

 

[aεrgiα]

Well she has great Dash Attack, Air Game and.... And....

sadly, the part about her good air game is arguable imo, while her nair, fair and bair are good aerials they are on the wrong character, its way to easy to trade with them, which is something jiggs doesnt want, something like disjoints(besides bair, which is her (most?) reliable kill move and thus not something u really want to stale) would help her a lot, or some priority(inb4 priority doesnt exist BabyRage, thats besides the point, i dont know whether it exists, sometimes it feels like it does and other times not, regardless, she could use it, even if its ADDED into the game just for her) on her moves. i really enjoy playing jiggs but really, shes got too many problems atm to be a good character imo, whether shes bottom tier, im torn on that, simply because ive seen some good jiggs play, but i will say that, contrary to "popular opinion", imo the shield nerf actually hurt her, her shield breaks more easily and rest oos is now something u can use even less than before(if it all)

ps. also, about rob, zero made a vid on him whilst taking into account 8bitmans opinion. i must say im really happy zero decided to ask top level mains about their character before he makes a video on them, it makes his videos so much better/accurate, either way, i think theres some good information in that video so check that out if u care(and some great gameplay ):/

 

[Xandercosm]

just saw the list, and I can't believe they put last. Xandercosm is going to have a field day with this one.
\

I don't even care anymore... *sniff*

 

[aεrgiα]

I don't even care anymore... *sniff*

me when i see gunner and sword in last tho i will say that was before the ding dong patch afaik(dk still wasnt the worst back then either, but it makes his placing more understandable imo ) also, in case u care, this is the latest tier list ive seen from someone in the japanese scene(rain and nietono) http://smashboards.com/threads/viab...ive-impressions.410551/page-301#post-20291210 , dk is b-(this time the same as mew2) if it helps soothe ur soul

 

[Xandercosm]

me when i see gunner and sword in last tho i will say that was before the ding dong patch afaik(dk still wasnt the worst back then either, but it makes his placing more understandable imo ) also, in case u care, this is the latest tier list ive seen from someone in the japanese scene(rain and nietono) http://smashboards.com/threads/viab...ive-impressions.410551/page-301#post-20291210 , dk is b-(this time the same as mew2) if it helps soothe ur soul

LOL! I feel all better now. *sniffle*Wait a second... WHY ISN'T DK S-TIER?!?!?!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

LOL! I feel all better now. *sniffle*Wait a second... WHY ISN'T DK S-TIER?!?!?!

Because Dong to much?

 

[Wintermelon43]

Alright.

• Piss-poor endurance, especially vertically.
• Has legit no range. It doesn't help she gets absolutely destroyed by shields and has nothing to challenge them except for Pound, which is a poor option in of itself due to the move's endlag and predictability.
• Since her jumps are her only form of recovery, once she gets gimped or spiked at low percents say goodbye to your stock.
• Her ground game is bad. No way around it. Other than a decent dash attack and okay tilts, all her options are ludicrously poor. Bad grab range, throws with no reward, laggy and predictable smash attacks, the worst set of specials in the entire game, and the slowest walking and dashing speed in the game.
• She cannot deal with disjointed hitboxes at all and gets decimated by most heavyweights because since she's such a fragile character she can die in a few good five to six hits by said heavies. Say hello to characters like , , , , , and .
• She can be punished for pulling off Rest successfully due to it no longer guaranteeing a Star KO, and anybody who's quick enough after respawning can potentially KO her while she's still sleeping.

But yeah, like Routa said better to bring the discussion there. I even talked about Jiggly in this thread a few pages ago. There's just literally nothing to fear about this character.

1.I'm not sure what endurance means, so i won't comment
2.No range? Bad range, but it is not THAT bad. Absolutuy destroyed by shields, ahum, yep, because she can't use another aieral afterward or get away in time to save herself. The Opponent will have a trouble punishing her due to shieldstun changes. Pound is a good option since it can break shields and do a lot of damage and knockback.
3.Jigglypuff is easy to gimp but it's not much of a problem, since she can at least run away with her fast air speed, and then recovery. Once again, still easy to gimp though, but even top tiers such as can easily be gimped.
4.Her ground game isn't good at all, no doubt about it, but it isn't that bad either. Jab is ok too, or even a tiny bit good. That is true about smash attack, but forward smash still hits a fairly good amount of times, so that one's okay. Jigglypuff's side special and down special are great, so she can't have the worst set of specials. Rollout and sing are useless, but why are you even using them? Also, grab DOES have followups, such as down throw to up air. Jigglypuff's isn't the slowest dashing speed (And I don't think walking speed either), although that doesn't matter since the key point is that it is very slow.
5.Only like Bowser or Ganondorf kill her in 5 to 6 hits.
6.Okay, but people will only get a weak punish, not like a really strong attack, and even then, it star KOs half or more of the time anyway.

I thought I said without misconceptions or lies? Because there's a ton of those in here.


Edit:For some reason the post posted before i wanted it to, hold on

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Also, grab DOES have followups, such as down trow to up air. STRIKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

What? The rest of your post is almost completely wrong but this... Oh my. Who are you facing? Your brother who doesn't DI?

Even WITH DI, puff's d-throw doesn't combo. Heck, how would she be landing grabs? Her grab is trashy.

Her range is bad. Her little legs do small kicks, at least she has good airspeed to compensate. Even then, you're overestimating the shield changes. I think it was changed by what, 5 frames? That's about 1/12 of a second, so most people will be able to punish. Her small jump height means if she approaches you, you know exactly what she's gonna do (hit you) where you can even perfect shield and OOS u-smash to catch her with most characters.

Having a gimpable recovery isn't made up by anything, it's just gimpable.

Her specials might not be the WORST, but they certainly are bad. Only good special is side-b because it does shield damage and can catch people off guard. Rest isn't worth the reward because this isn't Melee, taking stocks is hard and if you miss they get a free stock.

 

[Munomario777]

1.I'm not sure what endurance means, so i won't comment

It means how long one can survive -- so Jigglypuff dies super early (for obvious reasons).

That is true about smash attack, but forward smash still hits a fairly good amount of times, so that one's okay.

It only hits once.

Jigglypuff's side special and down special are great, so she can't have the worst set of specials. Rollout and sing are useless, but why are you even using them?

Rest is incredibly hard to land, extremely punishable if you miss, and even if you hit sometimes (if the foe survives). Pound is probably her best special, but doesn't really compare to the special movesets of other fighters.

5.Only like Bowser or Ganondorf kill her in 5 to 6 hits.

And a lot of others don't let her get close at all, thanks to their disjoints.

6.Okay, but people will only get a weak punish, not like a really strong attack, and even then, it star KOs half or more of the time anyway.

You'd be surprised what you can do in two seconds against an immobile foe.

 

[Wintermelon43]

What? The rest of your post is almost completely wrong but this... Oh my. Who are you facing? Your brother who doesn't DI?

Even WITH DI, puff's d-throw doesn't combo. Heck, how would she be landing grabs? Her grab is trashy.

Her range is bad. Her little legs do small kicks, at least she has good airspeed to compensate. Even then, you're overestimating the shield changes. I think it was changed by what, 5 frames? That's about 1/12 of a second, so most people will be able to punish. Her small jump height means if she approaches you, you know exactly what she's gonna do (hit you) where you can even perfect shield and OOS u-smash to catch her with most characters.

Having a gimpable recovery isn't made up by anything, it's just gimpable.

Her specials might not be the WORST, but they certainly are bad. Only good special is side-b because it does shield damage and can catch people off guard. Rest isn't worth the reward because this isn't Melee, taking stocks is hard and if you miss they get a free stock.

My brother is a noob Little Mac. Who has to play with double side walk-offs since he doesn't know how to jump or use his up-special. Obvisualy he can't DI

It means how long one can survive -- so Jigglypuff dies super early (for obvious reasons).

It only hits once.

Rest is incredibly hard to land, extremely punishable if you miss, and even if you hit sometimes (if the foe survives). Pound is probably her best special, but doesn't really compare to the special movesets of other fighters.

And a lot of others don't let her get close at all, thanks to their disjoints.

You'd be surprised what you can do in two seconds against an immobile foe.

I meant that forward smash can be used, and actually the opponent

 

[Bowserboy3]

5.Only like Bowser or Ganondorf kill her in 5 to 6 hits.

Sorry, I will have to disagree there. In fact, most characters with a usable spike can kill her within about 5 or 6 hits too considering how bad her recovery is. And plenty of characters can kill her in a few hits. Bowser, Ganon, Dedede, DK, Mac, Marth, Lucina, Roy, Ike, Falcon, Samus, Charizard, Meta Knight can even manage to get an Up Aerial string super early on her.

The point is she doesn't survive long, and she is meant to be a high reward character to balance this out, but she just doesn't get enough reward for being so damn light.

 

[Furret24]

My brother is a noob Little Mac. Who has to play with double side walk-offs since he doesn't know how to jump or use his up-special. Obvisualy he can't DI

Then why are you using it as an example of a combo?

6.Okay, but people will only get a weak punish, not like a really strong attack, and even then, it star KOs half or more of the time anyway.

What is this then?

Two seconds is enough time to fully charge and land any smash attack. It's also long enough to land any other attack (ex. Reverse Warlock Punch) in the game. People will start killing you off a missed rest from 0%-40%, which is sooner than Rest kills 40%-70%.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Then why are you using it as an example of a combo?

What is this then?

View attachment 84428
Two seconds is enough time to fully charge and land any smash attack. It's also long enough to land any other attack (ex. Reverse Warlock Punch) in the game. People will start killing you off a missed rest from 0%-40%, which is sooner than Rest kills 40%-70%.

That 1st gif was legendary(in s hilarious way)

 

[Xandercosm]

Ok, everyone, can we just agree at this point that Jigglypuff sucks?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Ok, everyone, can we just agree at this point that Jigglypuff sucks?

Sure I guess

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Now we wait until Goku gets into smash

 

[Deleted member]

I feel bad for . Has been bottom tier for two games in a row, and has been bottom tier in all three of her Smash incarnations.

...At least Samus got a break by being a mid-high tier in Melee.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

I feel bad for . Has been bottom tier for two games in a row, and has been bottom tier in all three of her Smash incarnations.

same for M2. I really wanted him to be good(unlike melee) but I'll have to stick with shulk, mario and falco for now

 

[Deleted member]

same for M2. I really wanted him to be good(unlike melee) but I'll have to stick with shulk, mario and falco for now

I also really wanted him to be good, but sigh. Guess some things never change. I was so excited for 's return too since he was one of my best characters in Brawl, but they nerfed him so badly and he's just such an underwhelming character this time around. No reason not to play instead.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I'm just glad that this time around the character I wanted to main is good.

Edit: That's actually half true. Back in Brawl I did actually want to main Marth, who ended up being like the 5th best, but that was only because I was introduced to him in Melee because Bowser sucked (who I initially wanted to main). Secretly I was hoping Bowser would be at least mid tier, but sadly not. Even Samus in Brawl was considered pretty bad, and Mario, so this forced me once again to learn more characters, which in reality was good, because I still played the likes of Bowser, Mario and Samus, but being serious, I ended up using Marth, Wario and Lucario more.

 

[Ridel]

I'm just glad that this time around the character I wanted to main is good.

Not me I can never catch a break all my favorites are low tier in some form. , (PM), (PM), and . Call it bad luck or call me an idiot for playing them in games where they suck.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

I'm just glad that this time around the character I wanted to main is good.

I wanted to main shulk, but he is "low mid tier".(I still play him) When ryu was announced, I knew that he would be top tier and better than
let's see who takes the b8

 

[Xandercosm]

I wanted to main shulk, but he is "low mid tier".(I still play him) When ryu was announced, I knew that he would be top tier and better than
let's see who takes the b8

Dong police on the case! SIR, YOU'RE UNDER ARREST!