Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[TMNTSSB4]

People just say Duck Hunt is bottom tier because his mains lose because he's hard to use and they become really salty from losing due to his difficulty. And then everyone else goes on the salty bandwagon

Hate when that happens

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And, the thing is, there's no reason for them not to buff her. She's even worse in casual play, where one hit from a spamming Ganondorf can destroy her and she has nothing to retaliate.

The ironic part is that you have to complete the "true" solo All-Star mode within 6 minutes as Jigglypuff, and that can't be avoided at all. At least there's no difficulty restriction though.

 

[Bowserboy3]

The ironic part is that you have to complete the "true" solo All-Star mode within 6 minutes as Jigglypuff, and that can't be avoided at all. At least there's no difficulty restriction though.

And it only gets harder when you download the DLC characters. I wish I actually did this challenge before I downloaded the characters now...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And it only gets harder when you download the DLC characters. I wish I actually did this challenge before I downloaded the characters now...

You can delete your DLC by heading to your Wii U's system settings. Any DLC that you've purchased, you can redownload for free.

Also, the DLC data is stored inside the update data, so if you do delete your DLC, the data will still be in tact when you do redownload your purchased contents.

You see, whenever your purchase DLC, you're actually purchasing a key that unlocks the data that's stored in the update data.

 

[Hoplite]

+1 Dark Pit : Due to his recent buffs D.Pit is now a good bit better than pit is. I feel that now D.Pit is in a higher tier than pit is.

+1 Robin :Due to buffs, honestly I feel robin is a really good character to begin with, but moving up a tier definitely places Him/Her at the right spot.

+1 Bowser : Welcome to Buff-city boys.

-1 Zelda : The real question is how Zelda got out of the bottom. Hopefully Sakurai blesses Zelda with the biggest buffs of all time so she is viable

-1 Pikachu: Dont get me wrong, Pikachu is a beast, but not that much of a beast.

 

[aεrgiα]

The only thing that Duck Hunt truly has over Mii Gunner in competitive play are tournament results. Mii Gunner's neutral is better than Duck Hunt's because of the lack of priority in Duck Hunt's projectiles, and the amount of strong options that Gunner has. Mii Gunner's advantage is better because Gunner doesn't have as many killing problems (due to faster smashes and a frame 5 up tilt that kills around 135), and Gunner gets more reward from throws (including the ability to kill most of the cast before 120% with up throw to up air after a DI read, and down throw to up air to kill after up throw to up air stops working). Mii Gunner's disadvantage state is better than Duck Hunt's because Gunner's recovery is not as gimpable, and Gunner has more resistance to combos while being heavier. The only major buff that Mii Gunner needs is one to his/her player base.

Spoiler: Mii Gunner's viability analysis

Mii Gunner has one of the best neutral games in all of Smash 4 with 1111 and with 3312, Gunner's best moveset. This is due to the excellent projectiles Mii Gunner has, and the movement options that Gunner gets when using them. Mii Gunner also has other moves that are good in the neutral (nair, bair, and pp ftilt to retreat). Mii Gunner also has decent mobility due to a good foxtrot, (it has a value of 1.6, the average run speed of a character), good airspeed (tied for 25th), good aerial acceleration, (tied for 15th) and a gundash that is as fast as a falcon kick without any landing lag. Mii Gunner also has a good juggling and edgeguarding game (his/her combo game is a work in progress, but there are some good true combos and follow ups in the Mii Gunner true combo and follow up thread). Killing with Gunner isn't very easy, but Gunner has a good variety of kill setups (including a kill confirm with 3312 gunner). In addition, mii gunner has good frame data on some killing options (frame 5 up tilt that kills around 135 depending on weight and a frame 9 down smash with good killing power for a smash attack). Mii Gunner also has a solid disadvantage state (although our only combo breaker is our frame 3 reflector, and it's weak hitbox gives it situational use for that purpose) especially with 3312. Bomb drop allows Gunner to land safely in most matchups, and gundashing, flame pillar, stalling with reflector (with 1111 gunner), and lunar launch are also good mix ups to land. Although Mii Gunner is somewhat easy to combo and edgeguard in comparison to the rest of the cast, Mii Gunner is good at surviving since Gunner has a good weight along with the option to gundash to the stage to mix up recovery. Mii Gunner's disadvantage state is also helped by being difficult to jab lock. Although Mii Gunner doesn't have many players to develop his/her metagame or to represent him/her in tournaments, Mii Gunner is definitely not a bad competitive pick relative to the rest of the cast.

while i agree with you, i think the biggest reason why there are so few gunner mains is the very controversial situation miis are in when it comes to their legality, add in the fact that brawler and mii sword are more popular due to their more aggressive gameplan. i do think 1111 gunner is better than a lot of people make it out to be but i just find that to be very boring to play as(3112 is very fun though, yes i know 3312 is the widely agreed upon set and arguably better, but i prefer side b 1 for its ability to block certain projectiles and the stage control it gives, since u lose the reflector/absorbtion move if u run bombdrop(which is a must imo)), also, it may be VERY situational, but ive found the downward blast from the up b to also sometimes be useful in escaping from strings(though it is very exploitable if the opponent sees it coming)

+1 Dark Pit : Due to his recent buffs D.Pit is now a good bit better than pit is. I feel that now D.Pit is in a higher tier than pit is.

+1 Robin :Due to buffs, honestly I feel robin is a really good character to begin with, but moving up a tier definitely places Him/Her at the right spot.

+1 Bowser : Welcome to Buff-city boys.

-1 Zelda : The real question is how Zelda got out of the bottom. Hopefully Sakurai blesses Zelda with the biggest buffs of all time so she is viable

-1 Pikachu: Dont get me wrong, Pikachu is a beast, but not that much of a beast.

1) theres no voting currently, going on, its break time(as the title says) also, i disagree on dpit being better than pit, pit still has the better arrows(which allow him to actually cover his very linear recovery which has no hitbox at all) and his ftilt is a great spacing and killing option that dp would love to have,, i dont think the changes to side b are enough to make up for these 2 deficits :/
(though dark pit has by far the better palette swaps so at least in that regard hes easily better than pit imo )

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

1) theres no voting currently, going on, its break time(as the title says) also, i disagree on dpit being better than pit, pit still has the better arrows(which allow him to actually cover his very linear recovery which has no hitbox at all) and his ftilt is a great spacing and killing option that dp would love to have,, i dont think the changes to side b are enough to make up for these 2 deficits :/
(though dark pit has by far the better palette swaps so at least in that regard hes easily better than pit imo )

The differences are most notable against Rosalina though, since Upperdash Arm is mostly designed for taking out Rosalina, while Electroshock Arm is mostly designed for taking out the Luma. This is also the reason for why the Rosalina sub-forum gave Pit and Dark Pit their own separate threads.

 

[Hoplite]

1) theres no voting currently, going on, its break time(as the title says) also, i disagree on dpit being better than pit, pit still has the better arrows(which allow him to actually cover his very linear recovery which has no hitbox at all) and his ftilt is a great spacing and killing option that dp would love to have,, i dont think the changes to side b are enough to make up for these 2 deficits :/
(though dark pit has by far the better palette swaps so at least in that regard hes easily better than pit imo )

Thanks for telling me!

 

[aεrgiα]

Mario & Sonic Guy i have a question, since u gave me a warning for double posting(which is completely fine, im asking the question to avoid double posting in the future). How do i edit a reply into my already existing comment? ill explain the situation just now, so u (hopefully) understand what i mean, i posted my first comment as a reply, and, while i was writing that comment, a new comment was posted, but the site only updated after i had submited my first post, so i read hoplites comment after i had already posted my reply, now i wanted to reply to hoplites comment too but i couldnt find a way to edit it into my first post, hence i double posted... halp

 

[Xandercosm]

Smashboards really should allow you to delete your own posts.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mario & Sonic Guy i have a question, since u gave me a warning for double posting(which is completely fine, im asking the question to avoid double posting in the future). How do i edit a reply into my already existing comment? ill explain the situation just now, so u (hopefully) understand what i mean, i posted my first comment as a reply, and, while i was writing that comment, a new comment was posted, but the site only updated after i had submited my first post, so i read hoplites comment after i had already posted my reply, now i wanted to reply to hoplites comment too but i couldnt find a way to edit it into my first post, hence i double posted... halp

You can edit your own posts at any time. Also, you are able to quote more than one post when making a new post, but it does require you to utilize the copy and paste tools, along with making a new tab on your browser.

 

[aεrgiα]

You can edit your own posts at any time. Also, you are able to quote more than one post when making a new post, but it does require you to utilize the copy and paste tools, along with making a new tab on your browser.

i mean how do i edit quotes into an already existing comment which ive already posted?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Smashboards really should allow you to delete your own posts.

That would be cool to have

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

i mean how do i edit quotes into an already existing comment which ive already posted?

You can copy the whole quote, and then paste it onto your post.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Smashboards really should allow you to delete your own posts.

Or have a button to allow you to "Merge" posts together.

 

[aεrgiα]

You can copy the whole quote, and then paste it onto your post.

i feel stupid now
and thank you

 

[Furret24]

Smashboards really should allow you to delete your own posts.

I think you can, but only after getting warned and/or infraction for it. The only time I was ever given the option to delete a post was after I got a warning for it.

 

[Luigiguy42]

Changes I want to see:

: Make better recovery

: Make snap to ledge

: lessen ending lag on

: buff kill power on



Just a few things-- ,& aren't as bad as people say they are.

 

[Bowserboy3]

: Make snap to ledge

does snap the ledge for and , and as far as I know, it does for and . 's didn't aught to, as it gives him a noticeable weakness to exploit.

 

[Djmarcus44]

while i agree with you, i think the biggest reason why there are so few gunner mains is the very controversial situation miis are in when it comes to their legality, add in the fact that brawler and mii sword are more popular due to their more aggressive gameplan. i do think 1111 gunner is better than a lot of people make it out to be but i just find that to be very boring to play as(3112 is very fun though, yes i know 3312 is the widely agreed upon set and arguably better, but i prefer side b 1 for its ability to block certain projectiles and the stage control it gives, since u lose the reflector/absorbtion move if u run bombdrop(which is a must imo)), also, it may be VERY situational, but ive found the downward blast from the up b to also sometimes be useful in escaping from strings(though it is very exploitable if the opponent sees it coming)


1) theres no voting currently, going on, its break time(as the title says) also, i disagree on dpit being better than pit, pit still has the better arrows(which allow him to actually cover his very linear recovery which has no hitbox at all) and his ftilt is a great spacing and killing option that dp would love to have,, i dont think the changes to side b are enough to make up for these 2 deficits :/
(though dark pit has by far the better palette swaps so at least in that regard hes easily better than pit imo )

It is true that the miis have been disadvantaged in the ability to get tournament results (I was surprised to find out that there are still areas that ban miis), but more results are needed for the community to move up Mii Gunner in the tier list. It is interesting that Brawler is so much more popular than Gunner and Swordfighter that 1111 brawler was put over 1111 gunner and Swordfighter in the tier list even though 1111 brawler is worse than 1111 Gunner and Swordfighter in results and theory (even most mii brawler mains think that 1111 brawler is one of the worst characters in the game).

I also find that the projectile from lunar launch is a good landing mixup for 1111, but it is better to use bomb drop to land when using another moveset. 3112 is a good moveset, but 3312 is better because of the pressure and combos that the missile provides. 1111 Gunner can be an interesting character when using follow ups and gundashing (it is also fun to get the easiest edgeguarding kills with flame pillar).

 

[Woohoo982]

Just a few things-- ,& aren't as bad as people say they are.

Agree on G&W due to buff city and main bias lol
But why do you think that Robin and Zelda aren't as bad as people think they are?

 

[Deleted member]

Robin is a very capable character, so I agree with him when people say he/she isn't as bad as people say they are. Zelda's just outright garbage. Her moveset needs a complete overhaul if she's to ever be viable in a Smash game ever.

 

[Wintermelon43]

What about Pacman vs Duck Hunt?

Zage vs Dunnobro

Link?

 

[Xandercosm]

Robin is a very capable character, so I agree with him when people say he/she isn't as bad as people say they are. Zelda's just outright garbage. Her moveset needs a complete overhaul if she's to ever be viable in a Smash game ever.

I think that's probably what they should do with all characters who were low/bottom tier in the previous Smash installment. Completely overhaul their moveset cause it clearly wasn't working.

 

[Wintermelon43]

I think that's probably what they should do with all characters who were low/bottom tier in the previous Smash installment. Completely overhaul their moveset cause it clearly wasn't working.

Mario's moveset was working, it just needed buffs. At least iirc

 

[Deleted member]

Mario was more or less low-tier in Brawl because barely anybody played him and he his mostly standard abilities were outclassed by most of the cast. He wasn't a bad character by design, he was just in a bad environment. It's the same thing in regards to Brawl Luigi.

 

[Xandercosm]

Mario's moveset was working, it just needed buffs. At least iirc

He's Mario, though. But I understand what you're saying. So, yeah, you could either rework their moveset or buff them up the wazoo (like what they did with Mario in Smash 4).

 

[Wintermelon43]

He's Mario, though. But I understand what you're saying. So, yeah, you could either rework their moveset or buff them up the wazoo (like what they did with Mario in Smash 4).

And what Nintendo SHOULD do with Jigglypuff

 

[Xandercosm]

And what Nintendo SHOULD do with Jigglypuff

May god rest her soul...

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Link?

 

[Wintermelon43]

Tbh that wasn't that painful

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Robin is a very capable character, so I agree with him when people say he/she isn't as bad as people say they are. Zelda's just outright garbage. Her moveset needs a complete overhaul if she's to ever be viable in a Smash game ever.

My main problem with Robin is his tome limitations, which makes projectile spamming not really possible. Also, he's quite slow, and the third jump is affected by the tome limitations as well.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Tbh that wasn't that painful

Buy still annoying to watch

My main problem with Robin is his tome limitations, which makes projectile spamming not really possible. Also, he's quite slow, and the third jump is affected by the tome limitations as well.

Slowest character in the game

 

[Furret24]

Buy still annoying to watch

Slowest character in the game

Ganondorf, Dedede, and Villager are slower overall. Atleast Robin has decent air speed.

 

[Xandercosm]

Duck Hunt was the reason that match was so painful to watch. The Pac-man was actually really fascinating to watch. Some of those setups were incredible...

 

[Furret24]

Agree on G&W due to buff city and main bias lol
But why do you think that Robin and Zelda aren't as bad as people think they are?

Game and Watch never went to buff city. He got two buffs one patch and two nerfs in two other separate patches.

That set wasn't painful, nor annoying to watch tbh. There was some neat Pac-Man play going on there.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mario was more or less low-tier in Brawl because barely anybody played him and he his mostly standard abilities were outclassed by most of the cast. He wasn't a bad character by design, he was just in a bad environment. It's the same thing in regards to Brawl Luigi.

Smash 4 really did improve Mario's viability, especially with that air speed buff that he received after Brawl. I can't say the same for Luigi though, since he still has one of the slowest air speed attributes in the game; his air speed is only faster than Dedede's.

Ganondorf, Dedede, and Villager are slower overall. Atleast Robin has decent air speed.

Robin is still the slowest runner in the game though.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Game and Watch never went to buff city. He got two buffs one patch and two nerfs in two other separate patches.

That set wasn't painful, nor annoying to watch tbh. There was some neat Pac-Man play going on there.

The Duck Hunt made it painful(not the most painful, but still). Pacman and Duck Hunt fighting eachother just shouldn't happen

Duck Hunt was the reason that match was so painful to watch. The Pac-man was actually really fascinating to watch. Some of those setups were incredible...

Pretty much, but they still shouldn't ever fight eachother(together sure, but against no)

 

[Furret24]

Smash 4 really did improve Mario's viability, especially with that air speed buff that he received after Brawl. I can't say the same for Luigi though, since he still has one of the slowest air speed attributes in the game; his air speed is only faster than Dedede's.



Robin is still the slowest runner in the game though.

Dedede has the slowest airspeed and Jigglypuff is the slowest walker (and is barley the second slowest runner). Your point?

Besides, running speed isn't everything. Walking speed is very important too, and so is airspeed.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Wouldn't running speed be more important than walking speed for atleast half of the cast? Airspeed for anyone not named Little Mac is important for them though.