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Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

Should we add a poll to the thread?


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Aetheri

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You think that looks nice? It looks even more like a Digimon than the Pokemon I tend to complain about. It looks busy for the sake of being busy.

I'm one of the people who actually does like Mega Evolution, whether it's stolen from Digimon or not, but one thing that I liked about the differences between the 2 franchises was the designs, Pokemon always had more simple designs and Digimon designs tended to be monstrosities with spikes and things for no reason. They're each fine on their own, but I don't want the 2 design philosophies to get muddled together.
I think your problem is, you keep making these comparisons between Pokemon and Digimon...

Even that design (albeit likely fake) is still pretty simplified compared to what we see in Digimon, as a result I can still see it fitting in the Pokemon universe similarly to how Pokemon like Dialga, Palkia, Giratina...

Not to mention there are plenty of Digimon who's designs are even more simplified than most Pokemon; so I guess Voltorb and Diglett could also be considered Digimon when you compare them to the likes of Botamon or Pattamon...
 
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View attachment 101719
This is probably fake, but whether it's suppose to be a fusion between hoop and volcanion, a new form for either, or even ew legendary. It looks pretty nice. Also works as it looks like the anistar city sun dial.
This doesn't even look like a pokemon . . .looks more like a kamen rider or something more absurd but DEFINITELY not a pokemon. . .
 
D

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Sacred Stones has quickly become Amelia Emblem
She has so much speed(for her class, which is Knight) that she is basically a dodge tank and even if she's hit, she will take about only 3 damage


Why is it that "This Pokemon looks like a Digimon" such a common complaint? It doesn't even make any sense
 
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Opossum

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Sacred Stones has quickly become Amelia Emblem
She has so much speed(for her class, which is Knight) that she is basically a dodge tank and even if she's hit, she will take about only 3 damage


Why is it that "This Pokemon looks like a Digimon" such a common complaint? It doesn't even make any sense
It can make sense if you read the argument as "I think this Pokemon is over-designed" instead.
 

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It can make sense if you read the argument as "I think this Pokemon is over-designed" instead.
Why not just use "This Pokemon is over-designed" instead?
I mean it makes more sense to be direct rather than take what I assume is a jab at something else.
 

Coricus

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I think Lucario's "popularity" is a lot like Stockholm Syndrome, it's sort of been forced on Pokemon fans so much that we've just had to accept it. It has the illusion of being more popular than it is because Nintendo and Gamefreak push it as hard as they do. I actually think Pikachu is in the same situation, since most people I've talked to just view it as a thing that's there and unavoidable.

Pikachu is the forced "cute" mascot and Lucario is the forced "cool" mascot, they both have inflated "popularity" because they're the mascots.
I don't think Lucario is Stockholm Syndrome. At the very least, he wasn't for me. I first saw him in-game in Diamond with no knowledge of the marketing behind him whatsoever and I still developed the seeds of my interest.

"Oh, look at that cool Pokemon Maylene has. Wonder where you get THAT?"



If you want Stockholm Syndrome. . .King K. Rool in this fandom. Just. . .King K. Rool.

Never liked his design, never played more than a single sitting of a Gameboy Color DK game, but darn if I haven't learned to accept him on fear of the reaction I would get if I dared to say anything against His Majesty.
 

Con0rrrr

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I think Lucario's "popularity" is a lot like Stockholm Syndrome, it's sort of been forced on Pokemon fans so much that we've just had to accept it. It has the illusion of being more popular than it is because Nintendo and Gamefreak push it as hard as they do. I actually think Pikachu is in the same situation, since most people I've talked to just view it as a thing that's there and unavoidable.

Pikachu is the forced "cute" mascot and Lucario is the forced "cool" mascot, they both have inflated "popularity" because they're the mascots.
It's also in part because Lucario is easily one of their best designed Pokemon in years.

Kickass design. Awesome abilities and powers that make him unique. And an even cooler mega evolution.
 

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In this thread: Either Stockholm Syndrome is being used wrong or I don't know what it means. I thought it meant Twilight **** and gaining affection for something that isn't okay such as abuse. Am I wrong here?
The term defines when a hostage (or hostages) gains sympathy towards their captor(s).

So yes, I'd say it's being used wrong. Unless Game Freak is holding us all hostage.
 

Coricus

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In this thread: Either Stockholm Syndrome is being used wrong or I don't know what it means. I thought it meant Twilight **** and gaining affection for something that isn't okay such as abuse. Am I wrong here?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stockholm syndrome

Well I went ahead and looked up the definition. I guess whether or not you see it as accurate depends on whether or not you feel like you are being held hostage by the promotion of a character and the other hostages have started warming up to the kidnapper.

So yes, I did use it incorrectly, and I apologize.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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wedl!!

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hey yall i got a quick question

why does crash 1 have really irritating controls and level design


also lol @ lucario's popularity being compared to stockholm syndrome
 

Coricus

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It can't be accurate. You can just ignore Lucario and Pikachu
I suppose to further talk about accuracy, I'll talk about one of my two least favorite words to be used in the context of Smash.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shill

I'm probably going to get a bunch of people telling me they're using it in a slang capacity, but being a shill means you're being PAID to say good things about something.

Apologist is still technically correct in the context it's used in, just. . .often targeted at people who aren't actually apologists.
 

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I still want to know why the "looks like a Digimon" is somehow a legitimate argument. Like does it really matter? Were Digimon's designs so God awful that heaven forbid a Pokemon stepped those boundaries?

It'd be like if I looked at a Street Fighter character and went: "Ugh, that is such a Guilty Gear character."
So? What's the point?
 
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Th whole point of pokemon is to capture them, leading to forming a bond with them over time. And yet it is Gamefreak that has captured us and caused us to have affection towards them using those same pokemon. How poetic
 

_Silver_

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Use the edit feature

Depends if you're a newbie or veteran to FE, newbies are Hoshidan scum and veterans are Nohrian heroes
I've only played the 7th game in the series which was the first one released here in the U.S. I'm halfway through it already.
 
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Fenriraga

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I still want to know why the "looks like a Digimon" is somehow a legitimate argument. Like does it really matter? Were Digimon's designs so God awful that heaven forbid a Pokemon stepped those boundaries?

It'd be like if I looked at a Street Fighter character and went: "Ugh, that is such a Guilty Gear character."
So? What's the point?
Ugh, the Komaytos from Kid Icarus are SUCH Metroids.

...wait.
 

Swamp Sensei

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The Stockholm syndrome thing is basically...

"I don't like this thing. Others couldn't possibly like this thing that I don't like. It must be some psychological marketing, because if other people were smart like me they would see it's a bad thing like I have figured out."

Because what the **** is respecting different peoples likes?

Is it so hard that people just like Lucario? You don't have to, but others honestly do, but trying to negate its popularity by spouting bull****? It's marketed sure but so is almost everything that's popular.

Hell, I could make a case for Your things in how it's "forced down our throat" and "an illusion" or whatever.

I don't say this very often, but you don't have an understanding of how the world works.
 
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_Silver_

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In that case you're still very new to FE, so Birthright gets my recommendation. Just remember you can download Conquest for 20 bucks from a menu in Birthright if you want both
Or I could just waste $40 more on Special Edition lmao. But really, one is enough.
 

Ura

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hey yall i got a quick question

why does crash 1 have really irritating controls and level design
IDK. The 1st Crash game was really hard to beat and even harder than most platformers. The control scheme got easier in future Crash titles thankfully.

On a side note, I absolutely hated the level before you fight Cortex. It's frigging evil.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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The Stockholm syndrome thing is basically...

"I don't like this thing. Others couldn't possibly like this thing that I don't like. It must be some psychological marketing, because if other people were smart like me they would see it's a bad thing like I have figured out."

Because what the **** is respecting different peoples likes?

Is it so hard that people just like Lucario? You don't have to, but others honestly do, but trying to negate its popularity by spouting bull****? It's marketed sure but so is almost everything that's popular.

Hell, I could make a case for Your things in how it's "forced down our throat" and "an illusion" or whatever.

I don't say this very often, but you don't have an understanding of how the world works.
Lucario never really did it for me. I really wanted a Gen 3 character in Brawl. At first I was a bit salty. But I moved on after some time and found him a great and fun character. The playstyle I don't enjoy that much(I love the gimmick, though), but not all are for me.

Regardless, I felt he was very deserving as a choice even then. But I felt that way about all Smash characters. They're all awesome in their own right~ Even if I don't like every choice for various reasons. I got no issue with the rosters to any major extent. I wanted Medusa over Palutena. I main Palutena right now(among my main 5. I don't have enough practice to get a good set of main and secondaries among those 5. My fifth might be Bayonetta. I really like her~)
 
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D

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Cormag, are you ****ing crazy? Don't attack my Mag users, I want to recruit you
Wow, I'm on Chapter 11 and almost all my units have A ranks and are close to promotion
Man, it sure is a nice change of pace to play an easy FE game again
hey yall i got a quick question

why does crash 1 have really irritating controls and level design


also lol @ lucario's popularity being compared to stockholm syndrome
You mean having basically the same ****ing level over and over again?
Good thing Crash improved over the years but it's still funny to watch my friend trying to defend the level design lol
Lucario never really did it for me. I really wanted a Gen 3 character in Brawl. At first I was a bit salty. But I moved on after some time and found him a great and fun character. The playstyle I don't enjoy that much(I love the gimmick, though), but not all are for me.

Regardless, I felt he was very deserving as a choice even then. But I felt that way about all Smash characters. They're all awesome in their own right~ Even if I don't like every choice for various reasons. I got no issue with the rosters to any major extent. I wanted Medusa over Palutena. I main Palutena right now(among my main 5. I don't have enough practice to get a good set of main and secondaries among those 5. My fifth might be Bayonetta. I really like her~)
BUT
WE
ARE
NOT
TALKING
ABOUT
SMASH
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Like I said, Lucario was never one for me. It's not just Smash. Was never a big fan of him. But his popularity is well-deserved, as his movie was honestly great. I loved the psychic link/aura his character had in the Anime. It's great as an idea.
 

Swamp Sensei

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hey yall i got a quick question

why does crash 1 have really irritating controls and level design


also lol @ lucario's popularity being compared to stockholm syndrome
Aside from controls....

It doesn't?

Level design is fine into.
 

N3ON

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Lucario has always been pretty popular but to be fair GF marketed him hard right out of the gate.

So we never really had a sort of "control group" to see what he'd be like without the push behind him. Without all the attention he got, I think he'd be in a similar situation as Scizor or Hawlucha or something. A cool Pokemon with a lot of fans, but not one at the forefront of the brand just because he doesn't get the spotlight shone on him.

I still want to know why the "looks like a Digimon" is somehow a legitimate argument. Like does it really matter? Were Digimon's designs so God awful that heaven forbid a Pokemon stepped those boundaries?

It'd be like if I looked at a Street Fighter character and went: "Ugh, that is such a Guilty Gear character."
So? What's the point?
It's not an inherent criticism of Digimon as much as it is of the series deviating from what people believe Pokemon should be.

I believe the same thing did apply to a lot of the characters in SF3.
 

wedl!!

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tbh i wish street fighter would go back to hip hop

like, the current style of music is good but sf3 music is amazing

sf2 music is also wonderful
 
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Fenriraga

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It's not an inherent criticism of Digimon as much as it is of the series deviating from what people believe Pokemon should be.

I believe the same thing did apply to a lot of the characters in SF3.
Ever since it began in Gen 1 we've had things ranging from a two legged Pokémon with literal Boxing Gloves for hands to literal piles of goop and sewage.

I don't think people see the bigger picture when it comes to what Pokémon look like. The bigger picture being there are NO rules.
 
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aldelaro5

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Ok, I know this might seem weird, but I have to redo my spm review.

The story is basically I was trying to read it before linking it to someone just to try to convince him that the game is good but then I was reading it and I was so confused. It's really me being bad at English omg, i can;t believe I was this bad before.

So i am just going to randomly post a Super Paper Mario review, this actually won;t be this long because once I described the flip mechanic, story and design, the rest will go smoothly :)

Let's just get some important facts on the game before we begin.

How it happened?

The game was supposed to be released as a Gamecube game, but as the Gamecube was getting discontinued, they moved silently the project to the wii which should have been simple enough because both hardware are very similar. The effect of this is actually obvious: there's a ton of assets that comes from TTYD. Textures, SFX, heck even the font is really the same. The only changes I saw is a higher resolution because the wii had more capabilities than TTYD.

And what this does is the game feels very paper Mario because you have a very similar style than TTYD which was already loved by a lot. In fact, this is why I was blown away by people saying it;s not a paper mario game where freaking everything felt like it was one. if there would be anything that doesn't feel Paper Mario, it would be Sticker star and likely cs, but spm? no.

This is how I will segue with he flipping mechanics right away because It;s the core part of the review.

The game is Paper Mario

I need to explain first what is the difference between changing an implementation of an idea and changing the idea itself. If you change the idea itself when the game is made, you basically remove the idea from the game and it will clearly feel something else entirely. If it was in a series, then the game will feel different from what you would be used to. To me, it's fine to do this IF THE IDEA ISN'T FROM THE SERIES CORE! For example, you wouldn’t remove platofrming in a main mario game series, it makes no sense, the series will become totally different if you do this.

Changing the implementation of an idea is however very different. You keep the idea, btu you renew it. For example, if i would compare the battle system of Zelda oracle of ages (the better one :) ) to the one of Ocarina of time, it will be a bit hard because they both have similar ideas in the battle system, but they both try to achieve slightly different goals with them. the fact still remains there is real time battle and they both feel similar in that regard so it;s fine to draw that similarity to say that the series is consistent to try to renew itself.

This is where I come to Super Paper Mario. Even if it;s hard to tell what genre the game is (more on that later), nothing was removed from the series and everything was just reimplemented.
Even the RPG part of the game it;s still there, so much that I can't call the game a platformer.

See, if I assume the game is JUST a platformer, I basically miss too much stuff in the game. The levels aren;t just going from platform to platform to reach a goal, that would have been platforming. It has an EXP system forcing you to kill some enemies, you can battles that are real time so you have much more options than a paltofrmer would, you have puzzles with the flipping, you have a way to feel your progression constantly with the void, there;s a dialogs and story behind it etc.....

it's not possible for me to say it;s just a paltformer. If I do so, I miss way too much to say it coversd the entire game. In fact, I can;t say it;s an rpg either because then I miss a part of the foundation of the game.....

The reasons this happens is because both part are bridged together in imo very clever ways. The score ssytem (platformer) is used as your EXP (RPG). The flipping allows to pass from a classical mario level (platformer) to more of a puzzle oriented and figuring out where you should go (I found this similar to RPG dungeon where you try to know where to go instead of the way being obvious). You can use temporary power ups (platformer) as items to heal you or attack enemies more easily (RPG, this is usually how items works).

In fact, if you think about it, there is more RPG only part then there is for platofrmoing. The Pixl are RPG only, they are only used for abilities and utilities that you keep permanently. The HP system is RPG only, the levels system is RPG only and so on and so forth.

So what the freak is wrong with the flipping mechanics? I loved it because it gave a new perspective on levels that seemed very simple. It just added a lot more to what could have been a simple paltformer and actually, this is what the game was trying to do in the first place and the flipping does it well.

So, when I come back to the question is this game a Paper Mario game, I don;t get why so much people tend to say no while the reality is the game is clearly one, but implemented differently.

you can;t say Ocarina of time isn;t a zelda game because it;s different from a 2d zelda, that makes no sense. So why would spm not be Paper Mario while all it is doing is taking the same ideas and implement them differently?

Now you know why I sort of despise the spm hate, that really is the main argument against it and I saw absolutely no problem.

However, this is not me telling the game is perfect, oh no it;s not

The game does have flaws, don't fret, it's not bad.

I am going to address a very obvious thing I noticed with spm: it's not consistently good unlike pm64 and TTYD. In these 2 games, I never felt at one point the game was bad enough for me to remember it, even the TTYD general white hunt, that was fine AFTER it was done and the game had been so good before, I quickly got over it (it's still the worst part of TTYD however, what I am saying is this is still an OKAY part). The game felt awesome from the beginning to the end.

Spm however......this is more fluctuating. There's parts that can be so good you would maybe think it's better than the best of TTYD, but on other parts.....it would suck. The Pixl are the best example. Their dialogs when you meet them is hilarious, i loved the boomer one asking you random questions for the point of....absolutely nothing :) The problem is after that, they never talk afterwards except Tippi (more on that later) and all they do is they do their utilities part and it's done. This is quite a downgrade going from TTYD where you had full character development and around 4 maximum moves per partners, they all had their identity and they had an impressive amount of dialogs especially goombella. Here is the catch though, I felt some Pixl dialgs were better than Goombella. You see the point I am trying to make here?

Spm has aspects that are imo the best in the entire series, but has other aspects that could be improved a lot. Here's an attempt for me to give an exhaustive list to what can be improved with spm:
  • Tattles sucks in spm, they are mostly Goombella without any humor to it, it;s bland and I don;t like them.
  • As a price to use the real time battle system, the game has less strategy options, it's annoying for me who research deep battles system, but I still had my stylish and it still made me happy so i roved on
  • You don;t have much equipment, I don;t feel you would need to considering the game, but it coudl ahve at least given a downgraded version of the badges
  • Bosses, they are not bosses, they are joke. Seriously, you go from TTYD which has a tons of strategy and the bosses are kinda long because you think about them and what you should do while spm it's more a matter of literally jumping around. Even the final boss is way too easy.
These are the main complains I had with spm. This is also why I am never going to say that spm is as polished as TTYD and TTYD was insanely polished so not that i can expect that to ever happen to be honest, but you get the idea: the game has flaws and they do matter when you play the game. However,. none of them makes the game bad. I just explained that it;s hard to me to say this isn;'t a paper amrio game and then I just explained that the game does some aspects the best in the entire series so to me, it;s fair to say that the game is good overall.

But what are those aspects?

From good to super underrated

There is a reason I respect people saying that spm is their favorite Paper Mario game: there's a lot of reasons to like spm because first: spm is implementing the Paper Mario series differently and second, it does stuff in the series that only this game does. The graphics for instance has the classic paper Mario style, but it has a cubic design and cubes being a very simple shape, it just feels right for the simplicity of the Paper Mario artstyle. Instead of seeing lines, you mostly see cubes and I found that very interesting as a huge fan of that srtstyle. you still have the colors and clear outlines, but it doesn;t feel the exact same as TTYD and I liked that.

The music is actually the exact same style as TTYD, but imo, improved. You have more random SFX in the tracks, they feel a bit more varied and they feel VERY vivid. The ost is imo on par with he TTYD one, it;s really keeping the retro 8bit style that makes them so simple to hear. There's even an 8bit remix version of the miniboss theme in the game that I absolutely LOVE.

The VERY core and main thing this game has that I agree entirely on why the game got so much praised is the text and plot. That deserve its own section

The humor

It is imo by far the best writing in the entire series and on its own a very huge interest to play the game. It;s basically the humor style is like TTYD on drugs and the main plot is.....nothing like TTYD lol. The humor is HILARIOUS and honestly, I never laugh as much as when I was playing this game. It keeps the same style from TTYD: very silly logic presented in a very serious way, except a lot deeper The enemies card descriptions are ALWAYS funny to read, the comical jokes are abundant and there is 2 points in particular when I laugh so mcuh I took a 10-15 minutes break because I couldn’t contain it.

Fracktail and Francis. Let;s keep the best for the end so let me first describe Fracktail.

He basically goes berserk and the error he is outputting if you love computers like me.....god this was so funny. I never expected in a Paper Mario game to hear computers and Windows references, seriously that threw me off. When it killed me was the ctrl alt delete: I was dead laughing at how much he just doesn't give a thing about the fourth wall. Just that part, exceeded anything I got from TTYD.

But the huge thing and imo the best part of the entire game is 3-4. This is when I realised how underrated this awesome game is. Holy god, Francis is too funny. I had spent some time on the internet enough before so that I could understand why, but the gist of it is that A LOT of people will relate to him and this is why it;s so funny because it's the most absurd typical internet troll personality I ever seen. If you had played TTYD before spm, this is a huge bonus because he has a ton of TTYD references. Everything him and his robots says is just too funny and it;s about picky fanboy criticism, only wanting nerd and hot babe in, being a jerk to others online and just being a huge fanboy. Actually, I love so much Paper Mario that I am not going to lie, I related to him on a lot of point which is why it;s so hilarious :)

But the peak of all this was the swoon.exe scene.......I am dead, I need a break this was way too mcuh for me to handle. I even had to pick the most ridiculous choices because it was jsut too much and then when Peach broke the fourth wall by wondering who was picking these answers.......god it killed me right there.

I even heard the next E3 when Paper Jam was announced that one of the Treehouse guy said "Super Paper Mario is one of my favorite game I ever worked on, I loved writing that game." tbh, it feels that the writter did had fun because when you read the text in this game, you have to feel happy.

But this is not the only reason the writing has been so praised....

The plot

No question; it is the deepest plot in the series. And also, the most well engineered one.

First, let's bring up the deepness of the writing. The text has a lot more literal devices for any Paper Mario game and that adds a huge meaning to the text which is actually very simple to read (which respects my philosophy of being a simple package with complex meaning). Just to give you an idea, it is a common euphemism in the series to represent the idea of dead as "having your game over". It's a funny one, but deep in meaning. TTYD had only used this euphemism ONCE and it was after you beat hooktail, koops says that he thought his dad game was over. In spm however, that one is VERY present like at least 20 times it;s been used. And for good reasons to, the game has a lot of references to quite dark theme such as dead, but the way the game brings them up is VERY implied and almost never explicit.

But the best part about the plot is how engineered it is. it;s a very teased plot and the 2 main person involved are Tiippi which helps you every time and the one who you THINK is the main villain. The main theme of the plot is how love persists through times and obstacles which as funny as it sounds it was done in TTYD with the TEC plot (the whole idea of being glitched to learn love is the biggest part). Except that spm brings it several steps further and the best example is the memory text.

After each ch, you have text written white on a pitch black screen and you just see that. Then there is one of the 4 versions of memory music playing depending on which ch you just finished. These text are the core of the plot so they really want you pay attention to them. And the music here plays a huge role because the first one sound like happy little memories, but then it gets darker and darker and around the end, you understands that what actually happened is that both Tippi and Bleck loved eachother, but they couldn't get even close so both party felt locked to accept it and one of them, to go insane. The plot itself is fine, but the way it is presented is what makes it so good. There is a point to every way to put sentences and this is why that when i got to the end of it.....I swear I shed some tears. You jsut feel like you want to know so bad what happens next and when the music "bounding through time" happened, I just....i can;t describe it, but that music hit me like a truck. It's basically a very deep explanation of how love can persist through dark times, I really loved to play a game where the main plot had that idea in mind.

this is why a lot of people like myself loves spm: you will not get this in TTYD and pm64. the best you will get in TTYD is a partial plot that is quite deep on its own with the TEC story, but not even close to spm which is super deep and has the entire game driving it. In fact, this is imo the reason this game is so distinctive as a Paper Mario game and why it just deserves a lot more attention then it got.

Final words: why hating this game?

Honestly, I was more mind blown by realising the game is good then the game itself. Because i just couldn’t get most complains this game had and the only one I agreed with were imo way too exaggerated by most people.

Let me make this clear: if you expected a game better than TTYD in terms of how polished it was, imo, you're doing it wrong. it;s insane how good TTYD got, so much that I don;t even think that trying to improve it would yield much points. sure, you could make TTYD better it;s not perfect (it;s close though), but the question is would that be worth to have IS take the effort to do this? Why would you do TTYD 2.0 where you pretty much nailed so good what you would try to do with the series? To me, spm was a very clever idea that I ended up loving a lot more than the idea of risking redundancy. The series had the need to try to renew itself and this is what spm was trying to do and imo, it did it well. It did it so well I wouldn’t even be mad if they do a seqeul to it because it is true spm can be improved that's for sure and it would clearly be worth making a game for that.

And then, what I really get mad at is when people uses spm as an argument to say that ss is not good. Imo, both game aren't even comparable to why they have flaws. Spm is mostly hated because it wasn't TTYD and SS is mostly hated because of the game itself, this is really not the same thing at all. In fact, SS was supposed to be a back to root game, but that got shifted away by Nintendo and Myamoto so honestly what the freak does spm has to do with this?

Spm to me is a sad story of how people can love too much a game to the point of only wanting that game and only that. Most complains I heard about spm is about TTYD so honestly, i never got that hate and this is why I quite despise it today. Spm to me is one of the game that could have lead the series in better direction and most hated it because it was trying to not be TTYD which imo is just dumb.

Heck to tell the truth, I would have accepted anything that wasn't SS when they announced cs, I would have even accepted a somehow flawed rpg with good ideas inside because I would at least know they are TRYING to fix what happened with SS. TTYD being exploited to a insane amount, it;s only fair that you would try to go elsewhere without breaking the series consistency. SS however broke even the series core genre. if anything, SS is a better example of how unfair the spm hate was and people should learn from it.

This concludes my review. I realised that I don;t need to go into much details than that because I talked about everything and the details only adds to what I told :)
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Ever since it began in Gen 1 we've had things ranging from a two legged Pokémon with literal Boxing Gloves for hands to literal piles of goop and sewage.

I don't think people see the bigger picture when it comes to what Pokémon look like. The bigger picture being there are NO rules.
It's definitely true they try to put a lot more random little things on Pokemon's designs these days. Digimon suffers from the same issue. Just a bit too much stuff going on with the designs. It's not always a bad thing, though.
 

Opossum

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Ever since it began in Gen 1 we've had things ranging from a two legged Pokémon with literal Boxing Gloves for hands to literal piles of goop and sewage.

I don't think people see the bigger picture when it comes to what Pokémon look like. The bigger picture being there are NO rules.
The difference isn't that simple. It's more like...take a look at Hitmonchan, and then at Dialga. Dialga has a lot more going on in its design, with spikes and crests jetting out everywhere, while Hitmonchan is still fairly simple. The only Gen I Pokemon I can think of that seem as "busy" are Gyarados and the Nido lines. That's where the difference lays: not what the designs are of, but how they're designed. Another easy thing to compare is to look at Rhydon, and then at Rhyperior, who has a ton more armor and drills than the relatively-simple single drill.

That being said, I love lots of the new designs, but the "shift" of sorts is still apparent. I personally think it has more to do with the advancing of technology allowing for more complex designs, but that's just my theory.
 

ChikoLad

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I personally think it has more to do with the advancing of technology allowing for more complex designs, but that's just my theory.
It more than likely is this, because they couldn't make such detailed sprites in older games. If you tried to put too many outline pixels on the sprite, it would become all garbled looking.

As sprite size and colour complexity increased, so did the designs of the characters. Then with the jump to 3D, you focus on making every angle detailed for the newer Pokémon. However, when older Pokémon are updated, they normally don't add much to the extra angles. For example, most artwork depicted Charizard from the front, but when they moved to 3D, they didn't add a whole lot to his back, in order to keep things simple and true to what the character's design is.
 

N3ON

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Ever since it began in Gen 1 we've had things ranging from a two legged Pokémon with literal Boxing Gloves for hands to literal piles of goop and sewage.

I don't think people see the bigger picture when it comes to what Pokémon look like. The bigger picture being there are NO rules.
Yeah, like people have said, it's not about what the designs take inspiration from, it's how intricate and complicated many of the designs have become when compared to the beginnings of the series, which by and large were generally simpler.
 

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Still, even with the growing complexity of Pokemon, it's not like they've thrown away the simplistic designs.
Look at Pokemon like Phantump or Klefki. Sure they're a bit more out there than let's say what Gen 1 had, but much like Gen 1 they aren't cluttered. They still give the overall theme of what they are meant to represent.


If you want a great example of an overly-complicated design, I point to Nomura's take on Batman:



Look at this. Where in any of this gives the slightest hint of practicality? There is so much detail in this it looks more like a set piece than a superhero suit.

And what about Batman himself? In between all the lines and spikes having spikes, where is the caped crusader? He's lost in all the footnotes.
I could've labeled this as Deathstroke and it'd be just as reasonable.

When Pokemon hits this level of insanity, then I can safely say Game Freaking is over-complicating. But 'till then I only see it as a progression of technology.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I think Smash needs 4 taunts, we have 4 buttons to taunt with after all
I think the idea was that because the Left and Right on the normal Control Stick doesn't matter, the D-Pad wouldn't matter in that regard either.

Which is silly, because that's not how taunts work. They were directional only in Melee for Pichu. The thing is, it worked very similarly to just going in directions for regular Smash play. Might be a pointless leftover?

Yeah, like people have said, it's not about what the designs take inspiration from, it's how intricate and complicated many of the designs have become when compared to the beginnings of the series, which by and large were generally simpler.
Sonicbrawler does have a point though. Sprite limitations likely were part of the reasons why. I don't think it's entirely that, though. It does have an effect, but not every new Pokemon or Digimon has a lot going on. Purely simple.
 
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