Survivor: Gabon - featuring Melee champion Ken

[Yuna]

Dishonestly?

What has she done that is dishonest, really?

Not admirably?

Subjective.

Not the shining beacon of "GOOD" that the show wants us to think?

I'd say that in the context, she's one of the "good" guys. She's not a paragon of goodness, but in comparison to the others, she's definitely among the "good".

I agree that she's played the game poorly, but you have to admit she's made some sleazy moves. Unneccesarily humiliating Randy when he was going home anyway is a good example.

That is one good example, however. I think she was just really mad at him for admittedly trolling the game for his last week there, trying to make everyone's lives as miserable as possible. I don't think she just woke up one day and went "Let's humiliate someone!"

It's just one action, however. If she's to be called not good, give us more examples. Meanwhile, she risked her hide by giving Matty the idol, she went to Bob and told him the truth to save him and turned on her alliance when she felt its morals went against hers.

Playing both sides and blatantly lying to Crystal is another. Not snake-y, no... but not GOOD either.[/quote]

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

How nuts would this be:
Matty, Bob and Ken agree that they take each other to the final 3. May the best man win.

edit: I really don't understand why you're defending her so much.

I gave you 2 examples.

The only person who's really done no sleazy thing this season is matty. Bob's tainted because of his involvement with humiliating Randy.

 

[Yuna]

Dishonestly?

What has she done that is dishonest, really?

Not admirably?

Subjective.

Not the shining beacon of "GOOD" that the show wants us to think?

I'd say that in the context, she's one of the "good" guys. She's not a paragon of goodness, but in comparison to the others, she's definitely among the "good".

I agree that she's played the game poorly, but you have to admit she's made some sleazy moves. Unneccesarily humiliating Randy when he was going home anyway is a good example.

That is one good example, however. I think she was just really mad at him for admittedly trolling the game for his last week there, trying to make everyone's lives as miserable as possible. I don't think she just woke up one day and went "Let's humiliate someone!"

It's just one action, however. If she's to be called not good, give us more examples. Meanwhile, she risked her hide by giving Matty the idol, she went to Bob and told him the truth to save him and turned on her alliance when she felt its morals went against hers. Not a paragon of good. But not "evil" either.

Playing both sides and blatantly lying to Crystal is another.

When did she blatantly lie to crystal? Playing both sides is "evil"? When did she play both sides, anyway? She's always played on one side. She just switches around.

Not snake-y, no... but not GOOD either.

I disagree.

How nuts would this be:
Matty, Bob and Ken agree that they take each other to the final 3. May the best man win.

Matty and Ken know that they'd stand no chance against Bob. Not likely.

 

[greenblob]

Corinne has jury connections, but I doubt she'd convince the others to vote for Ken (we're not even sure she'd vote for Ken).

Ken's decision to try to flush the idol out hinged on the assumption that it was real and that Corinne would use that tribal instead of the next tribal. That's two risky variables. What was he planning on doing, anyway? The idols were only good 'til tonight's tribal, was he planning on double-crossing Corinne and Bob next chance he got at tonight's tribal?

If he really intended to go into an alliance with Bob and Corinne, there was no reason for him to flush that idol out as it'd be useless for the Top 5.

I thought Ken said that he didn't want to align with Bob/Corrine (which is why he told Crystal to vote Corrine so she'd get the majority of the votes). The plan was to blindside Matty, then pick off Kota.

And Corrine needed to get the majority of the votes. If she didn't, then Matty would have been voted off with Ken thinking that Corrine still had the idol.

 

[AlphaZealot]

http://digg.com/television/Pro_Gamer_Still_a_Survivor


DIGG DIGG DIGG DIGG DIGG DIGG DIGG


http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivo...r_of_the_week/


VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE

 

[Steeler]

lol first yuna makes a second account to save #9001, and then accidentally posts two very similar posts.

ironic

also in that "best man win" scenario, matty and ken could theoretically agree to this at f5, and then vote bob out at f4. just a thought. this won't happen but it's fun to make up improbable ways for ken to win...

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

When did she play both sides, anyway? She's always played on one side. She just switches around.

lol

10characters

 

[MLG_JV]

http://digg.com/television/pro_gamer_still_a_survivor


Digg Digg Digg Digg Digg Digg Digg


http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivo...r_of_the_week/


Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote

Ditto~~~~~~~~~~~~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kupo15]

My question is why do ppl think Sugar still has the power. The idol is gone and Ken could use this as an opportunity to tell people that Sugar has been running the show the whole time. But idk...

 

[Yuna]

I thought Ken said that he didn't want to align with Bob/Corrine (which is why he told Crystal to vote Corrine so she'd get the majority of the votes). The plan was to blindside Matty, then pick off Kota.

Then the whole trying to get the favor of the jury falls. To pick off the rest of Kota wouldn't really go well over with the 6 former Kotas that would be on the jury.

And Corrine needed to get the majority of the votes. If she didn't, then Matty would have been voted off with Ken thinking that Corrine still had the idol.

And the question would be: Why wouldk it matter? It'd be useless for Final 5. Ken still had Suzie to build a Final 3 with.

lol

She has never played "both" sides simultaneously. You cannot deny this.

also in that "best man win" scenario, matty and ken could theoretically agree to this at f5, and then vote bob out at f4. just a thought. this won't happen but it's fun to make up improbable ways for ken to win...

There are 2 other s in the game, you know. They'd have to convince Sugar and Suzie to take Bob out. I can see Suzie agreeing, but not Sugar (at this moment). Sugar doesn't like Ken. Suzie, Suzie wants F3... and a chance of winning, I guess. So her vote can be bought by whoever.

Ken also doesn't want Matty in the F3. He knows Matty probably has more votes than him. He ideally wants Suzie and Sugar in F3 with himself.

My question is why do ppl think Sugar still has the power. The idol is gone and Ken could use this as an opportunity to tell people that Sugar has been running the show the whole time. But idk...

Yeah, like people would believe him. Matty and Suzie would know he's blatantly lying. Bob isn't an idiot. He probably would know too. Sugar would obviously know. It'd be complete suicide, either getting voted off or alienating everyone for the jury.

 

[Steeler]

at this point, ken should be happy to just make the f3. if i were him, i'd be playing just for the f3 right now, not for the million. of course, ken's "playing to win" mindset will probably get in the way of that...

getting bob and matty voted off successively is not going to work. you have immunity challenges screwing stuff up and the fact that sugar and susie are behind matty now. susie just wants f3, she's not going to risk it at THIS point in the game and flip, even if it gives her a better chance at a better placing...because in every scenario i can think of, she'll always get third. old kota hates her for flipping and susie isn't particularly close to anyone in her current alliance...nor does anyone see her as particularly "deserving".

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

She has never played "both" sides simultaneously. You cannot deny this.

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/surviv...GvSTJHTSpEFdR9_OY8YGFkHMbzDRH&play=true&cc=98

besides, changing sides 5 times an episodes is just as bad as playing both simultaneously.

 

[Yuna]

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/surviv...GvSTJHTSpEFdR9_OY8YGFkHMbzDRH&play=true&cc=98

I think that was just Sugar making sure Crystal and Ken would vote for Matty so that when she gave Matty the hidden immunity idol, Crystal would be the one to go. Not playing both sides.

I mean, listen to what she's saying. She claims it was "hell" to be alone with Matty, that she walked out on him to spend some time alone and stuff.

If this is proof of her lying to Crystal, then I say it's a part of the game. It's not inherently "evil" to lie to your enemies. She did it to save Matty. People lie all the time on Survivor. I thought it was something malicious, not just strategizing.

besides, changing sides 5 times an episodes is just as bad as playing both simultaneously.

5 times in a single episode now? When did she ever do that?

And this is not what you claimed. You claimed she played "both" sides simultaneously. You can't just go back and say "Actually, she does this other thing, which I to be just as bad".

Sugar doesn't flip just because. She's flipped on very few occasions. The other times, she was a free agent and her vote was a toss-up. She's flipped twice so far; against Ace, because she thought she was being betrayed and against Crystal because she just disliked the way she and Ken played the game.

 

[RoyalRook]

Sugar
Suzie
Bob
Matty

It's Ken vs. SSBM!

Brilliant, Ken owns SSBM

 

[Praxis]

I don't think Bob would vote Ken after what he tried to pull this week.

He doesn't know for a fact that that was Ken's plan, though. He took the warning from Sugar, but he knows Sugar could've been mindgaming him. He did feel bad for putting Ken in that position, and I think Bob would vote for Ken over Matty.

Ken didn't help Corinne out. Ken was tricked into thinking his best chances at winning was with Corinne. They're not idiots. They know he didn't do it out of the goodness of his hearts, he just played what he believed to be the most beneficial game.

Correct, but Corinne stated in her closing comments that she "wishes Ken and Bob the best" and wishes for horrible things for everyone else.

Corinne will vote Ken if Bob is not present.

She flipped on Ace because Ken lied to her and made her think Ace had betrayed her.

She flipped on Ken after seeing his diabological scheming and disliking it. It wasn't some kind of act of maliciousness.

Correct, but flipping does not gain you jury points.

You yourself claim she's a bad person for flipping on Ace. No, she was just duped.

I never claimed she was bad. I think it'll make her look bad to a jury.
If anything, I believe Sugar is the most gullible person on the show. She's flipped every time and falls for all of the mindgames. Ken convinced her Ace was evil, then Matty convinced her Ken was evil.

She's a bad player. No one's denying that.

That's all I've said. She's a bad player with an annoying attitude.

No, I'm arguing that if you are going to deem people good or evil, then Sugar is perfectly justified in her judgments.

I'm not deeming anyone good or evil. I'm deeming Sugar a gullible scrub who doesn't play the game well and makes emotional decisions.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

I think that was just Sugar making sure Crystal and Ken would vote for Matty so that when she gave Matty the hidden immunity idol, Crystal would be the one to go. Not playing both sides.

Explain to me how, exactly, this is not dishonest at best and sleazy at worst. She was lying to Crystal's face (which you claimed she never did, btw)

 

[Praxis]

Explain to me how, exactly, this is not dishonest at best and sleazy at worst. She was lying to Crystal's face (which you claimed she never did, btw)

Nothing particularly wrong with that, except that it loses jury votes.
I'd almost say it was Sugar playing the game, if it weren't for the fact that she was doing it out of ENTIRELY emotional reasoning.

I actually don't think Ken's vote for Matty (as opposed to Corrine) was THAT bad of a move. Think about it--if Crystal voted for Matty, he would go home and they would all still be thinking that Bob/Corrine still has the idol. So Corrine had to have the majority of the votes. Now it can go two ways--Ken votes Corrine or Matty. If he votes Corrine, he loses jury connections, but if he votes Matty, he gets a target on his back. Both are more or less equal at the endgame.

Something I read somewhere; the most brilliant move, IMO, would have been to have Crystal vote for Matty, and then Ken...vote for himself.

3 votes for Matty, 3 votes for Corinne, 1 vote for Ken. The immunity idol would function as the tiebreaker, flushing out the idol and sending Matty home. If the idol was fake, then they'd have a tiebreaker challenge and Ken wins either way, plus doesn't have to betray his alliance.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

You can't vote for yourself.

 

[Yuna]

He doesn't know for a fact that that was Ken's plan, though. He took the warning from Sugar, but he knows Sugar could've been mindgaming him. He did feel bad for putting Ken in that position, and I think Bob would vote for Ken over Matty.

Who's he going to trust, the guy who lies to everyone and turned on his own allies and then didn't totally turn but had Corinne get a majority of the votes to flush out the idol (thus setting up for the possibility to picking Kota off eventually, betraying his new alliance) or the girl who gave her own hidden immunity idol to save Matty and who, for no reason, went up to Bob and warned him about the plot against him?

Correct, but Corinne stated in her closing comments that she "wishes Ken and Bob the best" and wishes for horrible things for everyone else.

Corinne will vote Ken if Bob is not present.

I never said she wouldn't. I said she wouldn't be able to convince the others to vote for him.

Correct, but flipping does not gain you jury points.

Then Ken really has no leg to stand on, now does he? He flipped to. He also lies, schemes and blindsides people a lot. All in all, the jury does not like him.

I never claimed she was bad. I think it'll make her look bad to a jury.

I never said that, though, IIRC. You never said it'd make her look bad to a jury. You just threw it out there as if building a case against her as a preson.

If anything, I believe Sugar is the most gullible person on the show. She's flipped every time and falls for all of the mindgames. Ken convinced her Ace was evil, then Matty convinced her Ken was evil.

Ken is "evil", though

 

[Yuna]

Explain to me how, exactly, this is not dishonest at best and sleazy at worst. She was lying to Crystal's face (which you claimed she never did, btw)

1) It's "playing the game". You can "play the game" without being sleazy and "evil". Dishonest, yes. Sleazy, not so much.
2) Because that was not shown on the show! I don't go online on CBS' webpage to look at the extras.

You can't vote for yourself.

Then Crystal could've voted for Ken instead.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Can't we discuss something more interesting then petty details about sugars "honesty" lmao

ok, lets discuss ken's chances of winning
...
slim to none.

Uuuuhh.... well for a start, Bob and Matty CAN NOT be in the f3 for him to get jury votes. The jury is to bitter, stuck-up, self-righteous and stupid to recognize his gameplan. They will vote for anyone as long as that person hasn't hurt their precious egos, which Bob and Matty haven't. Sugar and Susie have done that, more so then Ken I think (Susie flipping and Sugar being Sugar and owning Corrine <3)

I guess he could pray Bob and Matty doesn't win any more immunity challenges and somehow make Susie and Sugar flip?... But that's pretty much impossible at this point, lmao

 

[Praxis]

You can't vote for yourself.

How would they know who the vote is from?
Otherwise, he could have voted for Crystal. Or written down something illegible and not confessed to it (a la Randy writing "C.C.").

2) Because that was not shown on the show! I don't go online on CBS' webpage to look at the extras.

What? She went to Bob, and came right back to camp and lied to Crystal about how Bob was taking the bait.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

1) It's "playing the game". You can "play the game" without being sleazy and "evil". Dishonest, yes. Sleazy, not so much.

splitting hairs. Ken has done nothing but "play the game" too

2) Because that was not shown on the show! I don't go online on CBS' webpage to look at the extras.

no johnnnnsssss

Then Crystal could've voted for Ken instead.

still leaving the problem of matty being angry that ken voted for him? or not

edit: She went to Bob, and came right back to camp and lied to Crystal about how Bob was taking the bait.

I forgot about that

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

Nothing particularly wrong with that, except that it loses jury votes.
I'd almost say it was Sugar playing the game, if it weren't for the fact that she was doing it out of ENTIRELY emotional reasoning.



Something I read somewhere; the most brilliant move, IMO, would have been to have Crystal vote for Matty, and then Ken...vote for himself.

3 votes for Matty, 3 votes for Corinne, 1 vote for Ken. The immunity idol would function as the tiebreaker, flushing out the idol and sending Matty home. If the idol was fake, then they'd have a tiebreaker challenge and Ken wins either way, plus doesn't have to betray his alliance.

agreed. I think that would've been his best option. no one would expect it, and he could've foxtrotted that play to his advantage. ah well.

 

[SonicBoom2]

Wow,
Ken may be next...



lol I'm watching the Ponderosa clips now.
I wonder how this will go.

 

[Yuna]

Uuuuhh.... well for a start, Bob and Matty CAN NOT be in the f3 for him to get jury votes. The jury is to bitter, stuck-up, self-righteous and stupid to recognize his gameplan. They will vote for anyone as long as that person hasn't hurt their precious egos, which Bob and Matty haven't. Sugar and Susie have done that, more so then Ken I think (Susie flipping and Sugar being Sugar and owning Corrine <3)

No, the jury just likes Bob. Even if Ken hadn't been just a schemester, which there's nothing inherently wrong with when it comes to Survivor, the jury would still like Bob better.

He was on the outskirts of their alliance, he's a nice guy, he helped around camp, he does very well in challenges despite his age. He's just a very likable person. Like it or not, not everyone worships at Ken's feet just because he's a Melee champion.

How would they know who the vote is from?
Otherwise, he could have voted for Crystal. Or written down something illegible and not confessed to it (a la Randy writing "C.C.").

There are camera men, aren't there? If they see someone voting for themselves, I think they'd tell Jeff.

What? She went to Bob, and came right back to camp and lied to Crystal about how Bob was taking the bait.

The part you linked me to was in the show. And she didn't specifically lie to Crystal. She specifically lied to Ken. You claimed she lied to Crystal. She didn't (on the show). And it's not sleazy, it's playing the game. It's dishonest, but not sleazy or "evil", which was what I was contesting.

splitting hairs. Ken has done nothing but "play the game" too

Only he's much more sinister about, trying **** like guilting Bob out of immunity just for playing the game in order to them blindside him out of the game. I'd call that sleazy and possibly "evil" (in this context). Sugar's play in this episode, not so much.

still leaving the problem of matty being angry that ken voted for him? or not

But at least then Corinne wouldn't be guaranteed to go in case the idol was a fake or she didn't play it.

 

[nuro]

Anyone want to confirm if relatives of people who lost go to the survivor finale?

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

dishonest

adjective
1. deceptive or fraudulent; disposed to cheat or defraud or deceive [ant: honest]

semantics


The scientific or philosophical study of the relations of words and their meanings.

Note: Semantics is commonly used to refer to a trivial point or distinction that revolves around mere words rather than significant issues: “To argue whether the medication killed the patient or contributed to her death is to argue over semantics.”

 

[Yuna]

dishonest

adjective
1. deceptive or fraudulent; disposed to cheat or defraud or deceive [ant: honest]

semantics

I'm sorry, did you miss the parts where I said (twice) that Sugar was dishonest?!

Don't bring dictionaries into this. Read properly first. I blatantly stated that Sugar was dishonest. I said that it wasn't sleazy in my view, though.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

I'm sorry, did you miss the part where I copied and pasted the thing about semantics? ie - quibbling over dishonesty vs sleaziness is arguing over semantics since they're closely related and sometimes synonyms.
Read properly? no u

 

[Yuna]

I'm sorry, did you miss the part where I copied and pasted the thing about semantics? ie - quibbling over dishonesty vs sleaziness is arguing over semantics since they're closely related and sometimes synonyms.
Read properly? no u

You said absolutely nothing about the sleaziness issue. What am I, psychic? How was I to know you were linking sleaziness to dishonesty when you said nothing to that effect?

Since when is "sleazy" a synonym for "dishonest"? You can be dishonest or do something dishonest without necessarily being sleazy.

 

[kr3wman]

The vid on MLG is awesome.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

No, the jury just likes Bob. Even if Ken hadn't been just a schemester, which there's nothing inherently wrong with when it comes to Survivor, the jury would still like Bob better.

He was on the outskirts of their alliance, he's a nice guy, he helped around camp, he does very well in challenges despite his age. He's just a very likable person. Like it or not, not everyone worships at Ken's feet just because he's a Melee champion.

Have I ever denied this? I'm not expecting the jury to worship Ken, like every SWF user is, lol. I have no idea why you typed that lmao. Thank you captain obvious, i guess.
My point still stands... The motivations the jury (will) have for voting are ********. That's why he needs to take Susie and Sugar to the f3.
Hell, even the motivations you posted for voting Bob suck *** as motivations for him winning the game.... because he has barely been playing the game (apart from challenges)
If Bob wins he will have won fair and square though, no johns.

 

[Stroupes]

Like it or not, not everyone worships at Ken's feet just because he's a Melee champion.

Best statement yet.

I'm re-watching last night's episode, and I just realized that Ken did a HORRIBLE job of trying to mindgame Bob. Nothing was even going on to make Bob believe that Ken was in trouble, except maybe "going against his alliance," which wasn't such a big deal for the alliance anyway.

My guess for Final 3: Bob, Matty, and Sugar.

 

[MSLS]

Guys, go here to VOTE FOR KEN as fave player! www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor/player_of_the_week/
Fave player gets $100,000! I think Ken has played a fine game, even though he slipped up a little last week. He has certainly used his head more than some of the players still in the game.

Show that snooty doctor and lawyer and the rest of the corporate elitists on the show that we are a force to be reckoned with!

 

[Ryanarius]

looks like crystal has the best losing attitude of the jury members. Not to surprising.

http://www.comcast.net/tv/insidesurvivor/827/castawayinterviewcrystalcox/

http://www2.survivor.com/survivor/_17/ep12/epo12_crystal_exit.m4a

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

You said absolutely nothing about the sleaziness issue. What am I, psychic? How was I to know you were linking sleaziness to dishonesty when you said nothing to that effect?

Since when is "sleazy" a synonym for "dishonest"? You can be dishonest or do something dishonest without necessarily being sleazy.

Incredibly silly argument.
Since these are essentially unqualifiable terms, I'm going to try and end this by saying "I found Sugar's dishonest actions to be a bit sleazy."

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

http://www.comcast.net/tv/insidesurvivor/827/castawayinterviewcrystalcox/

Gordon: Last night, CBS put up a video of you going to the Ponderosa (where booted jury members live) and I felt terrible with the way you were treated by the other jury members. Marcus, Charlie, Corinne, and Randy basically ignored you.
Crystal: I felt terrible myself. I didn’t see it, but it was by far one of the worse rejections I’ve ever had in my entire life.
Gordon: You were only there for three days, but they showed a shot of you and the four of them were facing a table. They wouldn’t even look at you.
Crystal: I was just like, you know what? I have thick skin, and I didn’t really play the game with these people and they were always on the other tribe. So, I was like, “To hell with this, I’m Crystal. I made if farther than you. Game over.”

MASSIVE CRYSTAL OWNAGE <3 <3 <3 get ***** onion
Oh god, I love her

 

[LivewiresXe]

Hahaha, that's amazing. Those 4 really have some self-entitlement issues.

 

[TK Wolf]

Yeah, the onion 4 are so immature. I was really irritated when I saw them giving her the silent treatment.

Stop being so butthurt about it, Onions. It's a game and it's over. Move on.