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Support Ray for Smash! - Custom Robo Discussion Thread

Bradli Wartooth

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No that you mention that, it does sound like he's doing Chibi Robo instead. I mean, he's SUPER shiny.
I'd love to see either one. But I feel Chibi Robo wouldn't be super hard to Smashify because he doesn't have a lot of detail. Ray would be more interesting for him, I'm sure. But it most certainly SOUNDS like Ol' Chibo. (He's my #2, so I'd love to see him)
 

POKEMANSPIKA

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I'd love to see either one. But I feel Chibi Robo wouldn't be super hard to Smashify because he doesn't have a lot of detail. Ray would be more interesting for him, I'm sure. But it most certainly SOUNDS like Ol' Chibo. (He's my #2, so I'd love to see him)
If he does do Ray, which model would he pick? I think he'd do Mark 3.
 

The One Who Wrote This

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If he does do Ray, which model would he pick? I think he'd do Mark 3.
I think he'd do Mk III because of 4 reasons:
  1. He's the newest model.
  2. He has a simple design.
  3. He (along with Ray 01) is one of the most requested Ray models in the series from what I could tell.
  4. He appeared in Brawl as an Assist Trophy, so he has 3D artwork that he can base the general design off of.
I'd love to see either one. But I feel Chibi Robo wouldn't be super hard to Smashify because he doesn't have a lot of detail. Ray would be more interesting for him, I'm sure. But it most certainly SOUNDS like Ol' Chibo. (He's my #2, so I'd love to see him)
Chibi Robo has a pretty simple design and the shine effect can be added to him kinda easily. I mean, they could use Meta Knight's mask and gauntlets as well as Link's sword and shield for shine effects.
 

ToastyPyre

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Chibi Robo has a pretty simple design and the shine effect can be added to him kinda easily. I mean, they could use Meta Knight's mask and gauntlets as well as Link's sword and shield for shine effects.
There isn't anything I can think of like Chibi Robo's texture in Smash Bros. The metal surfaces in Smash tend to be more coloured grey than legitimately shiny.
You know, Ray's size is smash can be small because of Custom Robo or middle and large, as the characters are meant to be trophies

I found this size comparison made by @ Solbliminal Solbliminal as a reference for Ray's possible sizes as a newcomer in Project M.
The consensus there was the top row size was more appealing, but what do you guys think?
 

Skyblade12

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There isn't anything I can think of like Chibi Robo's texture in Smash Bros. The metal surfaces in Smash tend to be more coloured grey than legitimately shiny.


I found this size comparison made by @ Solbliminal Solbliminal as a reference for Ray's possible sizes as a newcomer in Project M.
The consensus there was the top row size was more appealing, but what do you guys think?
Honestly, I prefer the lower row. Custom Robo fighters are small, and that size IS a part of the story and games. Sure, Kirby's small, but everything in his games is to his scale, so that small stature doesn't really manifest (hence all the questions of "how tall IS Kirby"). The sizes may change in Smash, but the canonically small size of the fighters is something I think would want to be translated into the game if he ever became playable. Heck, it's why his AT was tiny. It'd be losing something of the series if he was too big.
 

The One Who Wrote This

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There isn't anything I can think of like Chibi Robo's texture in Smash Bros. The metal surfaces in Smash tend to be more coloured grey than legitimately shiny.


I found this size comparison made by @ Solbliminal Solbliminal as a reference for Ray's possible sizes as a newcomer in Project M.
The consensus there was the top row size was more appealing, but what do you guys think?
Honestly, I prefer the lower row. Custom Robo fighters are small, and that size IS a part of the story and games. Sure, Kirby's small, but everything in his games is to his scale, so that small stature doesn't really manifest (hence all the questions of "how tall IS Kirby"). The sizes may change in Smash, but the canonically small size of the fighters is something I think would want to be translated into the game if he ever became playable. Heck, it's why his AT was tiny. It'd be losing something of the series if he was too big.
That's true about textures, but the RENDERS are another story:


Meta Knight has shiny surfaces on his sword, shoes, and gauntlets (as well as his right shoulder "pad"), so they could use that as a basis for shine. It ain't as bright and shiny as Chibi Robo's metal body, but it's something that they could base it on (Meta Knight and Mega Man were used to create the shine for Shovel Knight's Smashify photo).

As for the size comparisons, I agree with @ Skyblade12 Skyblade12 regarding the sizes. I picture Ray to be taller than Kirby and Olimar, but about as tall as Little Mac in his fighting stance. So, having him around Mario size (or even SLIGHTLY smaller) would make sense as Robos were never really big (barring Jameson, of course).

If a Metal Grappler, Trick Flyer, or Wild Soldier Robo were to join the fray, I would say that Samus height would work with them. But because we are talking about the Ray models, Mario height would suffice.
 

Zach777

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Ray should be only a forehead taller than Kirby or ,my preference, shorter than Kirby because I think the Ray AT in Brawl was perfect height. Just my opinion.
 

Skyblade12

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Ray should be only a forehead taller than Kirby or ,my preference, shorter than Kirby because I think the Ray AT in Brawl was perfect height. Just my opinion.
It would have hitboxes that were way too small, so he'd be OP as heck, and it would be too small to easily see on the 3DS version, which is still a concern.
 

Solbliminal

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This type of conversation is why I made the chart to begin with. As for what I think personally, I think Ray should just be around the average build of humanoid characters in the game. It would honestly feel weird to play as Ray in a smaller form as opposed to playing him the size he should be when he actually fights in his own game. Canonical elements like him being a toy in his game don't really need to be taken into account. See Olimar, as in his game it clearly is evident through the entire game you are an ant sized explorer. They still scaled him up to a size reasonable to how he would be compared to the average fighter.

Plus, with how Ray plays in Custom Robo games, it would be extremely difficult to fight a fast moving, small character with a lot of ranged attacks. Imagine if he were small. You are now fighting a tiny target that can move incredibly quick. I'd say a good analogy is what happens when you mash Mega Man and Little Mac together. The upscale would be beneficial for the sake of balance honestly.
 

The One Who Wrote This

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This type of conversation is why I made the chart to begin with. As for what I think personally, I think Ray should just be around the average build of humanoid characters in the game. It would honestly feel weird to play as Ray in a smaller form as opposed to playing him the size he should be when he actually fights in his own game. Canonical elements like him being a toy in his game don't really need to be taken into account. See Olimar, as in his game it clearly is evident through the entire game you are an ant sized explorer. They still scaled him up to a size reasonable to how he would be compared to the average fighter.

Plus, with how Ray plays in Custom Robo games, it would be extremely difficult to fight a fast moving, small character with a lot of ranged attacks. Imagine if he were small. You are now fighting a tiny target that can move incredibly quick. I'd say a good analogy is what happens when you mash Mega Man and Little Mac together. The upscale would be beneficial for the sake of balance honestly.
I could see him being around Mario's, Fox's, and Mega Man's sizes. They aren't too big, but they are big enough to get hit by attacks. Plus, those characters are bigger than Kirby and Olimar, who are canonically smaller than Ray to start with. So, it would work canon-wise and balance wise. Having him Brawl AT size would be a BIT too small for a fighting game.
 

Koopaul

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A little bigger than this AT perhaps but I think being a pint-sized robot suits him pretty well.

Let me explain it this way. It's sort of agreed among the Ridley supporters that he can be scaled down, and doesn't need to be accurate in size. However, if he was in the game, he still should be a large sized fighter. This is the same way I see Ray. He still should be one of the smaller fighters just like Olimar is one of the smaller fighters.

If being a tiny ranged fighter would be a problem there are other ways you can balance him. Have a lot of his weapons or attacks leave him open or vulnerable. Or have him be the lightest character in the game. He may be hard to hit, but when you do, it's lights out.
 
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Solbliminal

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I personally think he'd be better suited for a height right around Luigi's honestly.
 

POKEMANSPIKA

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A little bigger than this AT perhaps but I think being a pint-sized robot suits him pretty well.

Let me explain it this way. It's sort of agreed among the Ridley supporters that he can be scaled down, and doesn't need to be accurate in size. However, if he was in the game, he still should be a large sized fighter. This is the same way I see Ray. He still should be one of the smaller fighters just like Olimar is one of the smaller fighters.

If being a tiny ranged fighter would be a problem there are other ways you can balance him. Have a lot of his weapons or attacks leave him open or vulnerable. Or have him be the lightest character in the game. He may be hard to hit, but when you do, it's lights out.
No, Jigglypuff is the lightest character for a reason, she is the balloon Pokemon. I think Ray should be light but just lighter than average.
 

smashkirby

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I don't know why, but for some reason or another, I ALWAYS picture Ray (MK III) around the height of :4link:. It just seems so much more legit to me. Hey, if they could scale up:4olimar:..... (and to an extent, :4alph:.......)
 

The One Who Wrote This

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I don't think having Ray being AT size and being the lightest character in the game would be good. I'm going to use 3 fighting games as examples:

1) Marvel vs. Capcom 2. The Servbot from the Mega Man Legends subseries (great games BTW) was a playable character. He was the smallest character in the game and was able to avoid many of the other characters' attacks with ease. He can time out matches pretty easily as well (especially if it's a team of 3 Servbots).

However, he is considered a "garbage tier" character because of its low HP and low damage output in general (Gamma Lunch Rush did decent damage). We don't want Ray to be a character like Servbot (joke character that can time out matches in casual matches but does TERRIBLY in serious matches).

Video reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87z8iYtA5vI

2) JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (PSX). There were 2 small characters: Iggi and Pet Shop.

Iggi (a dog) was the smallest character in the game and is considered to be a high tiered character. However, his hurtbox had to be extended upwards, so punching in the air above Iggi would still hurt him. We don't want this with Ray (inaccurate hurt boxes).

Pet Shop (a bird) was the second smallest playable character in the game. He's banned from tournaments for several reasons:
  • Because he is smaller than usual, he doesn't need to perform a crouching block in order to block low attacks (a regular block will suffice).
  • He is able to clog the screen up with a ton of projectiles.
  • His combos do insane damage.
  • He can combo into his supers from his supers.
  • Fast speed and small hitbox allows for a TON of mix-up options.
So, he has a tiny hitbox that allows for a regular block to block all attacks (barring unblockables and grabs), is able to clog up the screen, deals massive damage, and can mix-up easily with his amazing speed. He does have somewhat low HP, but being able to block any attack with a regular shield will turn that into chip damage instead. We don't want Ray to be a Pet Shop.

Video reference:


3) Super Smash Bros. Melee.

Pichu is the smallest AND lightest character in the game. It is currently the 2nd lowest character on the tier list (THE lowest is currently Kirby [another small and super light character]). You guys know the rest regarding Pichu. We don't want Ray to be a Pichu.

At this point, I think Ray Mk III (or whatever Ray gets in) should be in-between Mario and Link for sizing in order to keep the game balanced. So, I prefer the lower row, but as long as it's in-between the lower row (Mario's size) and the upper row (which is AROUND Link's size) and make his weight in the mid to low half of the spectrum, I'm fine with it.

Plus, imagine what it would look like if AT sized Ray picked up a hammer. How would he be able to grab it if he was as big as his Assist Trophy incarnation?
 
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Bradli Wartooth

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I personally think Ray should be Mario sized. Since in Custom Robo, all Robos are roughly the same size (with a few model exceptions), I think it'd make sense to make Ray the average size for a Smash fighter. At no point (other than Jameson) does Ray fight something that is exceptionally larger than he is, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense to make him fight things that are way larger than him in the Smash world.
 

The One Who Wrote This

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I personally think Ray should be Mario sized. Since in Custom Robo, all Robos are roughly the same size (with a few model exceptions), I think it'd make sense to make Ray the average size for a Smash fighter. At no point (other than Jameson) does Ray fight something that is exceptionally larger than he is, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense to make him fight things that are way larger than him in the Smash world.
Mario sized seems right to me. Having him not be super tall like Samus or Dorfy would make it so the size isn't too large, but having it smaller than Mario would make it too easy for a projectile user to avoid hits. Mario size seems accurate to an averagely sized character like Ray.

If it were Ray 01, I think he'd be a BIT taller than Mario, as robos in Battle Revolution are a BIT taller than robos in the other games for some reason. But if it were Ray, Ray Mk II, X-Ray, Ray Sky, AIRS, or Ray Mk III, Mario size would be perfect.
 

ToastyPyre

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I found a chart comparing the heights of several Nintendo characters including Ray Mk III, Kirby, Olimar, and Little Mac.
It doesn't mean anything for their sizes in Smash. I was just surprised to see Ray on it.
 

The One Who Wrote This

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I found a chart comparing the heights of several Nintendo characters including Ray Mk III, Kirby, Olimar, and Little Mac.

It doesn't mean anything for their sizes in Smash. I was just surprised to see Ray on it.
I'm surprised to see Ray on there as well! Normally he's kinda left out on these comparison things.

Good to see the Custom Robo love going around! :)

Also, didn't know that Wailord was larger than the Queen Metroid. I wonder who would win in a fight between the two of them if Wailord knew Body Slam....

And hey, look what I found! Bre-Brawl fan rosters that had Ray 01 in them! http://imgur.com/a/1SiF3
 
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ToastyPyre

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Hey everyone, I've added a 'Signature Support Icons' section to the front post, along with a few layout changes.
Once again, if you have any suggestions for things that should be added or changed I'll happily edit it.
As it is, I'm not satisfied with how the new section is laid out. So if you can think of a way of cleaning it up I'll be very grateful.

Also, the section is lacking a larger variety of Ray's and support icons. So If you find any more, please show me so I can add them and fill out the collection.

@ The One Who Wrote This The One Who Wrote This and I have also asked some creative folks over in the Artwork Emporium for sig's. So in the future, we'll have an impressive collection of signature icons for any Custom Robo supporter.

This is also a good time for the artistic among us to create support icons. We already have the excellent designs by @ChainArmour712 and @ Zoljinx Zoljinx . So if anyone wants to make a small design showing support for a Custom Robo character, I'll happily add it to the front post. All you need is MS Paint and a little inspiration.

Thanks for reading, and for being a part of the Custom Robo discussion thread.
 

The One Who Wrote This

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Hey everyone, I've added a 'Signature Support Icons' section to the front post, along with a few layout changes.
Once again, if you have any suggestions for things that should be added or changed I'll happily edit it.
As it is, I'm not satisfied with how the new section is laid out. So if you can think of a way of cleaning it up I'll be very grateful.

Also, the section is lacking a larger variety of Ray's and support icons. So If you find any more, please show me so I can add them and fill out the collection.

@ The One Who Wrote This The One Who Wrote This and I have also asked some creative folks over in the Artwork Emporium for sig's. So in the future, we'll have an impressive collection of signature icons for any Custom Robo supporter.

This is also a good time for the artistic among us to create support icons. We already have the excellent designs by @ChainArmour712 and @ Zoljinx Zoljinx . So if anyone wants to make a small design showing support for a Custom Robo character, I'll happily add it to the front post. All you need is MS Paint and a little inspiration.

Thanks for reading, and for being a part of the Custom Robo discussion thread.
I'll try to think of something that can help with the layout of the front page.
 

Zach777

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I will hopefully be able to post about the reasons why Ray should be small in Smash sometime in the future. The hero is actually who we would be playing as if Ray gets in Smash. Ray is just the tool the hero uses to fight with. Just think about the hero having to carry around a Mario size robo cube when he is not fighting. IMario's size would not work and does not fit the series. Like I said before, hopefully I can post about my reasonings. I agree that Ray should get a very small size increase though. Squirtle size might work.
 
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POKEMANSPIKA

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I will hopefully be able to post about the reasons why Ray should be small in Smash sometime in the future. The hero is actually who we would be playing as if Ray gets in Smash. Ray is just the tool the hero uses to fight with. Just think about the hero having to carry around a Mario size robo cube when he is not fighting. IMario's size would not work and does not fit the series. Like I said before, hopefully I can post about my reasonings. I agree that Ray should get a very small size increase though. Squirtle size might work.
Ray should be Mario size. It doesn't have to be in tune with his own series. Plus a small, agile, projectile based robot seems like so much fun to fight against (being sarcastic).
 

AceZTeller

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Ray should be Mario size. It doesn't have to be in tune with his own series. Plus a small, agile, projectile based robot seems like so much fun to fight against (being sarcastic).
No kappa, I'd love a small, projectile based, annoying, yet heavy character. Let my boy be top tier, so then he gets some notice from the casual viewers.
 

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No kappa, I'd love a small, projectile based, annoying, yet heavy character. Let my boy be top tier, so then he gets some notice from the casual viewers.
*is given Little Mac levels of Recovery*

in all seriousness though, i could see him be a small projectile-based fighter with good mobility, but have him be light, maybe not Jigglypuff/Mewtwo levels of light, but maybe something closer to Meta Knight or even Sheik, cause at the end of the day... Custom Robo's ARE basically just toys. and i can't recall an action figure actually feeling heavy.

it also would feel like a good dynamic to play against, you HAVE to approach Ray to do anything against him, but because of how light Ray is it's a good enough reward when you do actually get in and do some damage.
 

ToastyPyre

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Another height comparison.

Who knew the biggest sticking point on this thread would be Ray's height, although it kind of makes sense. Ray is canonically small, but the games only show Robo's in separate instances to any reference object.

It actually reminds me. In Custom Robo Arena, there are times when the Robo's fight outside the Holosseum. You can see dumpsters, doors, and even a cat.

 

The One Who Wrote This

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Another height comparison.

Who knew the biggest sticking point on this thread would be Ray's height, although it kind of makes sense. Ray is canonically small, but the games only show Robo's in separate instances to any reference object.

It actually reminds me. In Custom Robo Arena, there are times when the Robo's fight outside the Holosseum. You can see dumpsters, doors, and even a cat.

Adding on to what ToastyPyre said about the real world battles, here are some videos that can be used as a reference size for Ray in the real world (courtesy of Custom Robo (N64)):
Physical Warehouse:
Medical Center:
Nojima Building Back:

Also, I'm really glad that you made a size comparison between Little Mac, Samus, and the possible Ray sizes. Makes it easier to judge. I prefer slide 2 the most, but frankly at this point I'm fine with any size. The main things in my book are that Ray gets in Smash Bros. and a new Custom Robo game gets made eventually.

Edit: Oh, and hey guys, found something interesting. This is a page that tracks whenever "Custom Robo" is mentioned in Japan. As you can see, you can definitely see that there's a ton still being talked about the series over in Japan, so feel free to use this as a debate weapon if someone says that the series is dead or something: https://twitter.com/search?q=カスタムロボ&src=typd&f=realtime
 
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Bradli Wartooth

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Samus height almost makes him look Bowser sized with the pod on his back >.> I'd say between the Olimar and Mac height sounds great to me.
 

Zach777

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I am glad that the real world stages were brought up to show the size of Ray in his games. In Battle Revolution (GCN CR) you can see a robo, Rahu, compared to the height of the hero in Story mode. Although Rahu is floating in midair everytime, you can still clearly see the difference between the height of a Robo and a human . To stay true to the series, Ray should be close to that comparison when he is fighting Marth or standing next to the hero piloting him.
 

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I just remembered that Ray has to fight Rising Chimera in GX and that boss is like three feet tall in the real world. Rising Chimera is massive for a Robo (and an awesome boss to fight). Ray actually does fight fight something enormous compared to him.
 

Skyblade12

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There was a mini Nintendo Direct featuring some game called LBX, for a second I thought it was Custom Robo, certainly is similar in terms of concept
Yeah, I was coming here to note this as well. There's even the line "Battle Custom Robots" in the trailer. The series started on the PSP, but is apparently a decent sized franchise, especially in Japan. I'm not sure what it means for Custom Robo going forward.
 

The One Who Wrote This

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I just found a fascinating interview from Gamespot about Custom Robo. The interview with NOISE and Marigul took place in 2000, just after the japanese release of Custom Robo (N64), and seems to suggest Custom Robo was going to go overseas far sooner than it did (like, with the first game).
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/marigul-and-noise-interviewed/1100-2445983/
That's a pretty interesting interview to be honest. It's a shame that the earlier titles didn't come overseas though. I would've loved to play it while understanding the dialogue without the aid of a translator. I also think that it would've been a bit more popular if they started USA's and Europe's exposure to the series during the N64 days (at least V2).

I just remembered that Ray has to fight Rising Chimera in GX and that boss is like three feet tall in the real world. Rising Chimera is massive for a Robo (and an awesome boss to fight). Ray actually does fight fight something enormous compared to him.
You mean the upgraded version of Dark Chimera (the guy in the video)? From the looks of it, it seems as though it's like 2 feet tall. That being said, it does give Jameson a run for his money.

I need to get footage of Rising Chimera soon. Gotta try to do that Gamelink Cable trick soon.

There was a mini Nintendo Direct featuring some game called LBX, for a second I thought it was Custom Robo, certainly is similar in terms of concept
Yeah, I saw that as well. Made me think of Custom Robo as well. It seems VERY similar in concept (I mean, they're tiny robots that fight in small arenas [they use re-enforced cardbord apparently while CR uses Holosseums] that are completely customizable), but different in execution (gameplay reminded me of Gotcha Force and those Gundam games sorta and you can customize the battery and cpu of the robos).

I'm going to get it to be honest with ya. Looks interesting and Level-5 hasn't disappointed me yet. I just hope that Nintendo and Noise decide to make a new Custom Robo game soon.

Yeah, I was coming here to note this as well. There's even the line "Battle Custom Robots" in the trailer. The series started on the PSP, but is apparently a decent sized franchise, especially in Japan. I'm not sure what it means for Custom Robo going forward.
From what I could tell, it seems pretty well sized (I mean, there are 3 times as many pages on its wiki than on the Robopedia) and decently new (1st game was in 2011, right?). It seems as though there are already 3 games on the 3DS and that the one in today's direct is the 1st American 3DS game (dunno which one of the 3 though).

I'll try that game out when it comes out on August 21st.
 
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Skyblade12

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I'll probably check out LBX as well. But I wonder if it means we won't get any more Custom Robo games in the future.
 

The One Who Wrote This

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I'll probably check out LBX as well. But I wonder if it means we won't get any more Custom Robo games in the future.
As TehEpicRyuga (cool name BTW) said, it won't replace Custom Robo as LBX was created and developed by Level-5, a 3rd party company known for several great games like the Inazuma games, Fantasy Life, and the Layton vs. Wright crossover game. It might actually give Noise some ideas on how to change up the series a bit. It ain't going to replace anything though.
LBX isn't owned by Nintendo, if it's a success they might remember they have Custom Robo and make a new one to compete. +5 if they have toys and an anime too
Toys would be interesting if they were customizable. I wonder how Amiibos would work if they decide to go that route.

As for a possible anime, what style do you guys think they should go for if they do so? Darker/more realistic like Battle Revolution, a bit more colorful like the 1st 3 games, or a mix like in Arena?
 

Skyblade12

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As TehEpicRyuga (cool name BTW) said, it won't replace Custom Robo as LBX was created and developed by Level-5, a 3rd party company known for several great games like the Inazuma games, Fantasy Life, and the Layton vs. Wright crossover game. It might actually give Noise some ideas on how to change up the series a bit. It ain't going to replace anything though.
My worry is that Nintendo may think that the particular niche market is already filled, and not bring back Custom Robo to compete with it. They can promote and make profit off LBX, why invest the extra resources to make Custom Robo games to fight for the same demographic?

Mostly I'm worried because it's shown up in a Direct. Even a micro-Direct, that usually means heavy support by Nintendo. I think they may be backing Level 5's game as a preference to making their own for that market spot.
 

The One Who Wrote This

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My worry is that Nintendo may think that the particular niche market is already filled, and not bring back Custom Robo to compete with it. They can promote and make profit off LBX, why invest the extra resources to make Custom Robo games to fight for the same demographic?

Mostly I'm worried because it's shown up in a Direct. Even a micro-Direct, that usually means heavy support by Nintendo. I think they may be backing Level 5's game as a preference to making their own for that market spot.
To be honest with you, I don't think it's one of those cases. They've shown off plenty of games in the past that would cater to a niche target audience that one of their franchises covers.

10 to 1 it was because of 2 reasons:
  1. Level 5 really wanted Nintendo to show off their new game. Some 3rd parties want Nintendo to show off their product, so they show it off (I guess some negotiations are done in order to do so).
  2. The TV series that plays on Nickelodeon will air again when the game releases. Basically, it's advertising for a kids TV show and its game. Twice the advertising for the price of 1. Get kids to purchase the game AND watch the show.
They didn't talk about LBX in the Japanese Nintendo Direct that we had yesterday, so I don't think Nintendo is trying to replace Custom Robo with LBX.
 
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