Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't cry by Jigglypuff's removal, but it'd feel really odd to have a Smash game without Jigglypuff present.

 

[ChronoBound]

I wouldn't cry by Jigglypuff's removal, but it'd feel really odd to have a Smash game without Jigglypuff present.

I fought for the return of Jigglypuff in Smash Bros. since 2001. My how much things stay the same (Jigglypuff is still in Smash Bros., people are still whining that she is still in). In general, the Jiggly-haters, like many other factions in Smash Bros., are just a very noisy and loud minority.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wouldn't cry by Jigglypuff's removal, but it'd feel really odd to have a Smash game without Jigglypuff present.

Well, it seems like a possible scenario considering how the character is not exactly a high priority. For all we know she could be cut due to time constraints. Not saying it will happen, but it's still a possibility.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I could completely understand Jigglypuff getting cut, however I'd be sad to see her go.

Well, with the re-opening of the Roster thread it looks like business as usual is staring to pick back up. I'll expect this thread to slowly start dying over the next few days.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, I'm starting to wonder if the new form is just that, a form that has its own pros and cons like Mewtwo. I should look up some Izayoi battles in Chrono Phantasma. That might be worth thinking about.

EDIT: It IS confirmed to be a new form, saying that it's his awakened form (but no name specified). He really is starting to sound like Tsubaki already.
http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/CoroCoro_reveals_last_week's_unveiled_Pokémon_to_be_Forme_of_Mewtwo

Wait, Tsubaki can transform into Izayoi mid-battle? I thought it was just like with Noel and Mu-12, they were separate characters.

 

[Curious Villager]

Smash without Jiggles just wouldn't be the same...

I wouldn't cry myself to sleep over her removal but it would definitely feel a bit odd with her absence. I guess I can say the same to all the characters that have stuck with us since the Smash 64 day's and if any of them were removed for whatever reason... :/

 

[Big-Cat]

Wait, Tsubaki can transform into Izayoi mid-battle? I thought it was just like with Noel and Mu-12, they were separate characters.

I was talking more about Izayoi's two modes. Her drive allows her to shift into and out of her Gains Art mode. Tsubaki and Izayoi are separate characters like Noel and Mu-12. Newtwo could be an alternative form that Mewtwo must use. Something tells me though that this new form is NOT an evolution of Mewtwo. We'll find out what exactly this Awakening is soon enough.

 

[bobadz]

I fought for the return of Jigglypuff in Smash Bros. since 2001. My how much things stay the same (Jigglypuff is still in Smash Bros., people are still whining that she is still in). In general, the Jiggly-haters, like many other factions in Smash Bros., are just a very noisy and loud minority.

Why did these people want Jigglypuff removed.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Why did these people want Jigglypuff removed.

Because dumb people are stupid.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I really like Jiggs, but Brawl's isn't too fun to play as due being kinda noisy and somewhat nerfed. (-l^l-);

For Jiggs' removal, I might go with Kiwi, though even if going so far as to miss her up. Dunno if I want to see her go.

 

[bobadz]

Yeah, Jigglypuff may not be as popular as it was in 1999, but she's still one of the original 12.

 

[ChronoBound]

Why did these people want Jigglypuff removed.

During pre-Melee it was because they saw Jigglypuff as a random addition to the roster (they did not know about Jigglypuff's Japanese popularity at the time), and that she needed to be cut for a more popular and high profile addition such as Mewtwo, Meowth, Charizard, Heracross, or another second-generation Pokemon.

For pre-Brawl, although people by now knew about Jigglypuff's Japanese popularity, and that she was already in two Smash Bros. games,the Jiggly-haters wanted her cut because they felt the series should only have four slots, and giving Generation One three slots (this was before Pokemon Trainer was confirmed) was too much, and these people thought the playable Pokemon representation should be Pikachu, Jigglypuff/Mewtwo, Lucario, and Deoxys/Gardvoir/Blaziken. Those who wanted (or thought) there would be five slots were able to reconcile bringing both Mewtwo and Jigglypuff back while also bringing a third-generation and fourth-generation newcomer.

After the confirmation of Pokemon Trainer, you had people start to think that Lucario might not happen, or that it was going to be Mewtwo/Jigglypuff being cut to avoid an over-representation of Generation 1 or to save a spot for Lucario among those who still thought he had a good shot at getting in.

 

[Deleted member]

Regardless on whether Jigglypuff stays or gets cut from the main roster, she will definitely be in the game.
How? DLC. If Jiggs does in fact get cut from the main roster for some reason or another, you can bet she will probably be among the first extra characters through DLC.

 

[Big-Cat]

IMO, Jigglypuff won't get cut. She has proven herself to be one of the more unique characters, especially since her unique design works so well in Melee. She's also pretty much the lethal joke character of the game so she fills in a small niche.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Yeah, all veterans will (or should) appear in Smash 4, playable or not. Brawl had all Melee cut characters in some form (Dr. Mario, Young Link, & Roy were stickers while Mewtwo & Pichu were trophies).

But I doubt Jiggs will get the ax.

 

[PikaJew]

Jiggs is a classic, she can't be cut.

Too many personal opinions of how they don't like playing as her, too many Gen 1 playable characters, or dream rosters of replacing her by a Pokemon that is nowhere near as iconic as her.

An original 12 cannot be cut, that's just not right.
The cuts in Melee were understandable because they were lesser known and for the most part clones
Young Link was replaced by Toon Link which was a better choice because of the success of Wind Waker and the various toon games.
Dr. Mario and Pichu were bad additions, especially Pichu because he wasn't an iconic Pokemon.
Roy and Mewtwo were "replaced" by Ike and Lucario (although people say they were 'supposed' to be in Brawl)
The only probably I have is Mewtwo. Yeah Lucario was the newer legendary at the time, so I can understand why they decided to do that, but I wasn't a fan of that decision.

Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Charizard, Meowth, Wobbufett and Mewtwo are probably still the most iconic Pokemon (because of the anime). Ya they're old but fans young and old know them.


Why does 4 slots have to be the limit for each game?
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle and Charizard are too iconic to cut)
Lucario should make a comeback
Mewtwo needs to come back
and I don't know any Pokemon after Gen 2 so add a newer legendary

And use the rest of them as Pokeballs.


As far as Melee characters coming back I can only see Mewtwo, there is the most demand for him. I would like to see a Roy come back as a medium between Marth and Ike. But Young Link's time is done, unless they take a Majora's Mask approach and make those masks part of his arsenal (aren't they re-released Majora's Mask?) But since WInd Waker is re-releasing for Wii U Toon Link makes more sense. Pichu no chance in hell is he returning. Dr. Mario should return as a different costume for Mario.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

@Pikajew
You have stated some wrong facts.

Pichu was (and still is) the most iconic Gen 2 pokemon.
Roy and Mewtwo were not "replaced." The were intended to be in Brawl with Lucario and Ike.
Lucario is not a legendary pokemon.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Lucario is my favorite Legendary Pokemon because it's blue and looks like a dog. Also it's a punching type that can see magical things.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Responding to something somebody said in the Roster thread:

When I was trying to decide which Fatal Fury game to download from Wii Shop... I did a comparison of the rosters from Fatal Fury 3, Real Bout Fatal Fury, Real Bout Fatal Fury Special, AND Real Bout Fatal Fury 2.

I noticed that Real Bout Fatal Fury had the same roster from Fatal Fury 3 plus some new characters.
I noticed that Real Bout Fatal Fury Special had the same roster from Real Bout Fatal Fury plus some new characters.
I noticed that Real Bout Fatal Fury 2 had the same roster from Real Bout Fatal Fury Special plus some new characters.

Which game did I download? Real Bout Fatal Fury 2. There was no point in getting the other Fatal Fury games because all the characters from those games are in Real Bout Fatal Fury 2 but with some extra characters that are only in this game.

The other Fatal Fury game I downloaded was Fatal Fury Special because it had Raiden most of the same characters from Fatal Fury plus some new characters and because both players can play as everyone on the roster as opposed to Player One being limited to 3 characters while Player Two can play as the bosses in addition to the 3 characters.

I'm sure you had a point you were making, butt I'd like to point out that ALL of the Fatal Fury games have different gameplay. RBFF has a 3-plane system, RB Special has a two plane system(like FF2), and RB2 has a main plane with a "sway" line. Judging the games solely by their rosters is doing them a disservice.

Also, I did not download the first two Art of Fighting games from Wii Shop because most of the characters in both games are already in The King of Fighters '98 or in either Fatal Fury Special or Real Bout Fatal Fury 2... so I opted for Art of Fighting 3 since its roster is completely revamped so I get to try out new playstyles that are not in the other fighting games.

Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury have completely different casts. Where the hell did you get your info from?

The only characters from AoF that made it into KoF '98 were Ryo, Robert, Yuri, King, and Takuma. That leaves over half the roster of AoF 1 and 2.

 

[PikaJew]

@Pikajew
You have stated some wrong facts.

Pichu was (and still is) the most iconic Gen 2 pokemon.
Roy and Mewtwo were not "replaced." The were intended to be in Brawl with Lucario and Ike.
Lucario is not a legendary pokemon.

I stated Roy and Mewtwo were supposed to be in Brawl............. haha
and quoted replaced for that reason
But saying they were replaced wouldn't be wrong either.

But I'd say Wobbufett is more iconic than Pichu
Or at least Lugia

Lucario might as well be a legendary Pokemon. He had his own movie.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Lucario might as well be a legendary Pokemon. He had his own movie.

Going by that logic, Unown and Zoroark should also be legendary Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

I was talking more about Izayoi's two modes. Her drive allows her to shift into and out of her Gains Art mode. Tsubaki and Izayoi are separate characters like Noel and Mu-12. Newtwo could be an alternative form that Mewtwo must use. Something tells me though that this new form is NOT an evolution of Mewtwo. We'll find out what exactly this Awakening is soon enough.

I really should take the time to look at what else CP is bringing to the table I honestly didn't know that about Izayoi.

Anyway, I get the feeling Newtwo will be a form just like all the other Pokemon forms, something along the lines of Sky Forme for Shiyamin for example.

On the off-topic note, just passed the 2nd dungeon on Skyward Sword, I gotta say, the game's flaws are exaggerated. In regard to the motion controls, they haven't given me any trouble... The inaccuracy with them is what's expected really, nothing game-breaking though. The puzzles are predictable, but I would so far say the game is on par with WW overall, it's not as bad as people say. Sure, the combat is not as good, and the sky is empty, but those don't stray too far from WW really. Well, barring the combat, WW has the best combat in the series. The puzzles are about as difficult as the WW ones though. Though, the dungeons ARE disappointingly small, and the Dousing quests kinda jarring. The points I really like are in regard to the story. I LOVE the character development in Link, Zelda, Impa, and Ghirahim. Now I understand the support for that guy. I still don't see him getting in Smash though...

However, I WILL have to side with Diddy on the Zelda/Impa deal. I think considering the situation it's a logical choice, and a great opportunity to reinvent her character in Smash, making her a better character. Which, considering her development in SS, I'd say it's well deserved. Honestly, at the pace she's going, SS Zelda might just become my favorite character in the Zelda franchise. I like strong female characters in fiction, and having Zelda go adventuring with Impa is certainly cool. Hell, I'd love to play a Zelda game where you adventure as Zelda and collect Magic instead of items and stuff. Hopefully SS is Nintendo's way of testing that water. As for Link, I like how he's going from aloof carefree guy, to having to find his inner courage for Zelda is very well done, and it's very subtle too, kudos to the writer on that one. I will have to say, I think puzzle-based Zelda's have hit their limit though, a more action/combat-based Zelda would be refreshing at this point. Something more like Zelda 2. However, before I settle on that idea, I should start trying out all the Zelda-clones (Okami, Darksiders, etc...).

On last bit, seeing as Yuii is around. For you buddy:

Spoiler

 

[PikaJew]

Going by that logic, Unown and Zoroark should also be legendary Pokemon.

****s a Zoroark? And Unknown isn't a normal Pokemon like a Ratata. Definitely something between a normal and a legendary.

But seriously Lucario is a legendary Pokemon

 

[Swamp Sensei]

****s a Zoroark? And Unknown isn't a normal Pokemon like a Ratata. Definitely something between a normal and a legendary.

But seriously Lucario is a legendary Pokemon

You trolling at this point aren't you?

Lucario is a normal pokemon. You can catch as many as you want in one game. It's just super popular like Pikachu.

 

[FlareHabanero]

****s a Zoroark?

And Unknown isn't a normal Pokemon like a Ratata. Definitely something between a normal and a legendary.

What's Unknown? I know about the Pokemon Unown, but not Unknown.

But seriously Lucario is a legendary Pokemon

And I'm an octopus.

 

[Croph]

Lucario is not a legendary Pokemon. Lucario isn't even a pseudo-legendary...If you're not sure if a Pokemon is legendary or not, you can always search it up, takes a few seconds...

Now, this is what you call a legendary Pokemon.

Spoiler

 

[bobadz]

Truly the most powerful Pokemon.

Also, Lucario is about as Legendary as I am good at video games. Which means he's not a legendary.

 

[Big-Cat]

However, I WILL have to side with Diddy on the Zelda/Impa deal. I think considering the situation it's a logical choice, and a great opportunity to reinvent her character in Smash, making her a better character. Which, considering her development in SS, I'd say it's well deserved. Honestly, at the pace she's going, SS Zelda might just become my favorite character in the Zelda franchise. I like strong female characters in fiction, and having Zelda go adventuring with Impa is certainly cool. Hell, I'd love to play a Zelda game where you adventure as Zelda and collect Magic instead of items and stuff. Hopefully SS is Nintendo's way of testing that water. As for Link, I like how he's going from aloof carefree guy, to having to find his inner courage for Zelda is very well done, and it's very subtle too, kudos to the writer on that one. I will have to say, I think puzzle-based Zelda's have hit their limit though, a more action/combat-based Zelda would be refreshing at this point. Something more like Zelda 2. However, before I settle on that idea, I should start trying out all the Zelda-clones (Okami, Darksiders, etc...).

So waifu Zelda is best Zelda then? I thought she was a much more believable Zelda and put some fresh air in her characterization in general.

A more action oriented Zelda would be nice. Okami is an excellent "Zelda clone" and some are even willing to say it's better than Zelda.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Lucario is a rare pokemon...he is not a Legendary...for god sake...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Isn't Arcanine a legendary pokemon?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Isn't Arcanine a legendary pokemon?

In-name only, due to it's species name being called "Legendary Pokemon". Outside of that, Arcanine is not a legendary.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Legendaries are pokémons that you can catch only once in your game, have no sex and can't reproduce nor evolve.
Even though I think that X and Y are going to change some of these rules, since I'm fairly certain that Xerneas will be a male and Yveltal a female (or the other way around).
The only legendary pokémon ever playable in Smash Bros. was Mewtwo. I hope for Genesect to show up in Sm4sh though.

 

[Deleted member]

So waifu Zelda is best Zelda then? I thought she was a much more believable Zelda and put some fresh air in her characterization in general.

A more action oriented Zelda would be nice. Okami is an excellent "Zelda clone" and some are even willing to say it's better than Zelda.

Yeah, Waifu Zelda is indeen the best Zelda, by a long shot. I might even go as far as saying best Zelda character period, but that depends on how it plays out, and she's up against some tough competition in that one.

I have Okami actually. I picked it up the other day alongside Muramasa the Demon Blade, I'll probably get started on those two once I finish Galaxy 2 and SS.

Also, on SMG2. SMG1 was WAYYYYYYY better. I remember SMG1 being more of a challenge. So far SMG2 has been so easy it's rather boring. And once it STARTS to get difficult, you get the solution way too quickly and the challenge is over.

For example, compare the Manta Ray Surfing Star in SMG1 to the Bird Gliding Star in SMG2. The one in SMG1 was a decently challenging start that had me going for it till I mastered it. The bird one was a bit tricky at first, but you quickly got the hang of it, and then it ended. There were no crazy loops or tough challenges once you got the hang of it, it was very disappointing, much like every level so far in SMG2 really. It's funny too because everyone said it was harder and better than the first. So far I disagree...

In-name only, due to it's species name being called "Legendary Pokemon". Outside of that, Arcanine is not a legendary.

Legendaries are pokémons that you can catch only once in your game, have no sex and can't reproduce nor evolve.
Even though I think that X and Y are going to change some of these rules, since I'm fairly certain that Xerneas will be a male and Yveltal a female (or the other way around).
The only legendary pokémon ever playable in Smash Bros. was Mewtwo. I hope for Genesect to show up in Sm4sh though.

Not necessarily. Phione and Manaphy, have Genders AND can reproduce, but they are still Legendary Pokemon. Also, we've seen cases of there being multiple versions of Legendary Pokemon in the canon, both in the anime and in the games, CANONICALLY. For example, the Shiny Beasts for Zoroark can be considered different from the HGSS Beasts. Likewise with the Frontier heads and even some Gym leaders having Legendary Pokemon in their teams, thus creating a paradox if only ONE existed.

There are also Pokemon that aren't legendary that you can only catch once, such as Snorlax and Sudowoodo, and there are also Pokemon with stats that rival Legendary Pokemon (psudo-legends as Croph said) such as Garchomp, and Salamance, so you can't use those rules tbh.

Legendary Pokemon are simply Pokemon with Legends tied to them or are designed with a folktale in mind (the Weather Trio and Arceus for example), it is honestly a much more loose term than what people think. USUALLY, they are one off Pokemon, that are found toward the end of the regional Pokedex and have very good stats, but ever since Gen 4 and Heatran, that mold has started to break and become much more loose. So basically, for all we know Arcanine COULD be a Legendary Pokemon for a different region, just not in the ones we've seen so far. Remember that Arcanine's design is following some Chinese folktale.

 

[FalKoopa]

Phione's legendary status is up for debate, according to Bulbapedia.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I meant that legendaries have to respect all those rules at once anyway. Obviously you encounter only one Snorlax but he's not a legendary.
Manaphy and Phione are an exception yes I forgot about them, but I thought that Phione wasn't one of them.
And I was referring only to the games, the anime does pretty much whatever it wants.

Now that I think about it, even Latias, Latios and Cresselia have genders.

For Super Mario Galaxy two, try to get the 242nd star lol.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Legionaries cannot benefit from breeding moves. Which Lucario and Riolu can.
Usually, Legendaries can be found once per game run through. Where multiple Riolus can be found pretty easily in B/W 2's Floccesy Ranch or HG/SS's Safari Zone.

EDIT: Here is the official list for every Legendary Pokémon that ever existed:
http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Legendary_Pokémon
(If you question this Nintendo Wiki's credibility, then just Google 'Official list of all Legendary Pokémon' and pike whatever site you deem credible)

Lucario isn't even considered to be a Pseudo-Legendary either:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pseudo-legendary_Pokémon

 

[Deleted member]

Phione's legendary status is up for debate, according to Bulbapedia.

Yet they still cite it as a legendary Pokemon in the intro to the article. It may be up for debate among fans, but GF certaily has marketed it as a legendary Pokemon. Lucario is not a legendary, but it certainly IS special. It is not a legend, nor a pseudo legend, he falls under a new category, call it whatever you like, but Lucario is not like Butterfree or Charizard for example.

Also, as far as we know, Arcanine COULD eventually turn out to be a Legendary Pokemon, something perhaps along the lines of Entei or Heatran for example. Remember that you can't ever catch Arcanine in the wild, only Growlithes, and his way of evolution is not exactly a 'natural' one. In fact, if I recall correctly, Entei's Dex entry hints at the possibility that there are many of them. Something like, "every time a volcano erupts a new one is born." Which, considering how frequently eruptions happen, I'd say that kinda proves that Legendaries aren't unique, just very rare.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Are we talking following the game's rules or just assumptions? Because at this point there's a theory that says that Genesect is a robotic Kabutops. Or that Entei, Raikou and Suicune are hyper versions of Flareon, Jolteon and Vaporeon.
Also, pokédex entries sometimes even contradict themselves in different games, just sayin'.

 

[Deleted member]

Legionaries cannot benefit from breeding moves. Which Lucario and Riolu can.
Usually, Legendaries can be found once per game run through. Where as Riolu can be found pretty easily in B/W 2's Floccesy Ranch.

EDIT: Here is the official list for every Legendary Pokémon that ever existed:
http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Legendary_Pokémon

Lucario isn't even considered to be a Pseudo-Legendary either:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pseudo-legendary_Pokémon

This is true, so far. But we've seen the mold break before, it could always happen again.

Also, I agree on that list. It's the generally accepted list so far. I'm only saying, Arcanine hits some fuzzy ground because of Dex entries. So we'll have to see if GameFreak either retcons that, or works with it thus extending the definition of a legendary even more.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I don't really think GameFreak is interested as much as the pokéfans about this argument really. lol