Suggested Custom Specials for every character

[warriorman222]

It's not for a long period of time and U can only do it once per stock.

WAIT, ONCE? I THOUGHT IT WAS A 30 SEC CD OK ITS CRAP

But seriously, this just further proves Nintendo's obsession with balance, and how much Namco sucks at it.

 

[popsofctown]

Healing is guaranteed, actually getting value out of invincibility seems more speculative. I don't have a hard time buying that Steady Breathing is bad.

I totally understand making a move that generates a Starman weak and being careful to make sure it's not dominant. It's one of those things where if it is good, it will be really unfun to play against. It's not like Bike or something where if it's maybe a little too strong it's still interactive.

 

[Wii Fit Bae]

Zelda

Nayru's Love
Nayru's Passion
Nayru's Rejection

Farore's Wind
Farore's Squall
Farore's Twinfall

Din's Fire
Din's Blaze
Din's Flare

Phantom Slash
Phantom Breaker
Phantom Strike

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Zelda

Nayru's Love
Nayru's Passion
Nayru's Rejection

Farore's Wind
Farore's Squall
Farore's Twinfall

Din's Fire
Din's Blaze
Din's Flare

Phantom Slash
Phantom Breaker
Phantom Strike

Why is Naryu's Rejection so bad? It still does damage at least.

(And it's Farore's Windfall, not Twinfall. I'll assume autocorrect is to blame.)

 

[Ffamran]

Nothing on and yet?

Why is Naryu's Rejection so bad? It still does damage at least.

(And it's Farore's Windfall, not Twinfall. I'll assume autocorrect is to blame.)

Yeah, I was going to ask for details and opinions on @ Wii Fit Bae 's suggestions.

Maybe it's because that the turn-around effect isn't enough to warrant whatever you give up with Nayru's Rejection.

 

[KERO]

Gonna go ahead and chime in with my own thoughts about Greninja's customs:

Water Shuriken has an incredible amount of utility. It zones, it gets rid of projectiles (fully charged Shifting Shuriken cannot unless the projectile can be stuffed by hitboxes alone), and it can even hit people on the ledge and KO them at higher percents. I was thinking about it earlier, and it's not too dissimilar from always having Purple Pikmin with Brawl Olimar, especially at higher percents. Not to mention that the move has such a small amount of end lag that Greninja can often run in with the slightly charged Shuriken (or a fully charged one) for even more pressure. At close range, he can also follow up from a successful hit on a completely uncharged Shuriken. The amount of utility Water Shuriken is absolutely incredible and I feel that Greninja should be using it in the majority of his match-ups. Shifting Shuriken may bring opponents to Greninja and you can often get Usmash off of it at fairly ridiculous percents, but with it, Greninja is forced to play an up-close game at all times since he won't be able to really camp or zone. The move's utility is drastically reduced and it's given one main purpose. While it serves the purpose extremely well, I feel that the utility offered by Water Shuriken is just too good to pass off in most MUs. In certain MUs, Shifting Shuriken is actually preferable, usually where regular Shuriken is fairly outclassed (I'd imagine the Rosalina MU where Greninja needs to use a fully charged Shuriken just to get through Luma, which takes about one-and-a-half seconds to get out while Shifting charges in about half-a-second if that and gives Greninja an easier way to kill Rosalina and criminally early percents). However, those MUs are few and far between, so I think it's best labeled in the yellow. Oh, did I mention that Water Shuriken's utility is incredible? You're gonna hear that word a few more times, so get used to it.

Moving on to the side special, there is actually some debate regarding Shadow Sneak vs Shadow Dash among the Greninja boards. In the upcoming patch, Shadow Sneak loses one of its main uses in punishing people trying to punish Dair (although, people would have eventually adapted anyway in my opinion). However, its other main use is scoring surprise KOs on people trying to edgeguard Greninja as he can often use it safely as he nears the edge, appear behind the opponent, and use the surprisingly lengthy leg kick to KO them. It should also be mentioned the opponent won't be able to see the shadow and Greninja's movement doesn't change at all, so it may appear as though I'm just trying to make it to the ledge. Obviously, this would only work maybe once a set, but it's potentially one less stock Greninja would have to take out traditionally. Shadow Dash lacks this kill power, but it works much better as a punish move that allows Greninja to close distance, which works very well in tandem with Water Shuriken allowing him quite a bit of zoning control. Additionally, it combos out of a non-spike Dair at 100%+. It, too can also catch edgeguarding opponents off guard, but it will not KO them. Shadow Strike is exceedingly slow and the opponent has more than enough time to react as even the disappearing animation is horrifically slowed down. It's also unsafe offstage, so you can't really use it as a surprise anti-edgeguard tactic.

As for his up-special, Hydro Pump is really the only answer. Despite its name, High-Capacity Pump actually pushes the opponent back less and has less range, and Hydro Pump is a fine enough recovery move on its own. The only reason I am putting High-Capacity Pump as yellow is because it does allow Greninja to recover no matter what (you can be far under the middle of the stage and still recover) as long as he can get the move out, but as of the current Smash 4 build, Hydro Pump just has an overwhelming amount of utility (man, Greninja just loves having those multi-purpose moves, and there's that word again!). It gimps, it pulls opponents out from under the stage the moment they up-b, allowing for easy Usmash kills, it chases opponents after a Uthrow when Uair no longer combos from it, and if Greninja absolutely needs to, it can be used as a last resort to escape a bad situation. If you are super concerned about recovering Greninja, which you really shouldn't be, I suppose you could go with High-Capacity Pump, but Hydro Pump beats it out in literally every other way possible. Single-Shot Pump is terrible: you can't aim it at all, but it has actual knockback and does 12% for some unfathomable reason.

Greninja's down-special is the only real underwhelming special he has. Exploding Attack is likely the best of the three, but even then it relies entirely on mindgaming the opponent. It does have kill power and can work as a last resort to trip up the opponent, but unlike Sheik, the initial animation before the explosion is vulnerable. Substitute is the worst counter in the game (akin to Brawl Lucario's Double Team but weaker) except for...Substitute Assault, which is essentially useless in singles; opponents that expect it can punish it even worse than Substitute, and even if you get it off, there's ample time to shield the incoming attack.

Thus, I feel that this is how Greninja's custom special lay-out should look:
Neutral Special:
1 Water Shuriken
2 Stagnant Shuriken
3 Shifting Shuriken

Side Special:
1 Shadow Sneak
2 Shadow Strike
3 Shadow Dash

Up Special:
1 Hydro Pump
2 High-Capacity Pump
3 Single-Shot Pump

Down Special:
1 Substitute
2 Exploding Attack
3 Substitute Ambush

 

[Deleted member]

I change my mind on the custom specials I wrote for TL before. Now it's more like:

Neutral
1 Hero's Bow
2 Fire Arrow
3 Piercing Arrow
TL's ability to camp is good enough without the hero's bow, and the fire arrow does an amazing job covering stage control and making it very difficult for the opponent to approach.

Side
1 Boomerang
2 Floating Boomerang
3 High-Speed Boomerang
Both the normal boomerang and floating boomerang have their uses. The normal one is better offensively since it's faster and does more damage for the most part, while the floating boomerang forces the opponent to be more careful and can break you out of combos.

Up
1 Spin Attack
2 Sliding Spin Attack
3 Flying Spin Attack
The sliding spin attack is hard to predict, hard to gimp, and doesn't force you to recover below the stage where you could get spiked, making it easily the best of TL's recoveries. The flying spin attack also has the advantages of super armor and going slightly higher than the normal spin attack, plus the final part of the flying spin can punish anyone who tries to gimp TL. The normal spin attack isn't good for anything except punishing rolls, but even then the sliding spin often does a better job depending on the situation. So yeah, TL's normal upb is pretty much inferior in every way that actually matters compared to his customs.

Down
1 Bomb
2 Time Bomb
3 Short-Fuse Bomb
I couldn't decide if the time bomb should be red or yellow since it does have its very limited uses, so I made it orange. The short fuse bomb is fantastic if you know what you're doing, otherwise the normal bomb is fine.

 

[Ffamran]

Y'know, I'll make one on . This is based entirely on observation - I only have the Burst Blaster. So, take my words with a grain of salt.

Blaster: Oh, I recommend this. Heathen, you say. Look, it's not that bad. You can't spam it like in Melee or Brawl, but it's still useful. Just don't spam it; use it as more of a longer-ranged Reflector for interrupts and spacing. The issue is the time it takes between shots. I don't know why, but it's either really long or really suffers from input lag. End lag is all right considering pretty much everyone has end lag for projectiles and aerials. Also, you're stuck with it for For Glory and For Fun along with the beginning of the game before you unlock everything. So make do with it. It's not bad, but it's not great.

Explosive Blaster: I can see some use in this, but it's really situational. Edge-guarding perhaps, but you need great timing and a damn good read since this comes out slow and has a slow ending. It has a larger stun effect and it'll either pull enemies towards you or away from you depending where the opponent's hit - in front means away and behind the blast means towards. So, you could potentially use this as a spacing tool. It's just so situational and requires strict timing, though.

I kind of wished you could charge it like in Star Fox with the Arwing, Landmaster, and the submarine-thingie. Maybe "charging" it could have made it similar to Sheik's Burst Grenade. Oh well.

Burst Blaster: Basically, it's Fox's Blaster, but I think it's slower - don't quote me on that. We know how Fox's Blaster works and it's fine. So, this is for those who feel Falco's Blaster just outright sucks donkey butt or for those that want a faster way to rack up damage at long range.

You lose the ability to stun and "push" people, though, since it's Fox's Blaster except with blue lasers and a gangsta grip.

Falco Phantasm: Regular old Phantasm. It meteors, travels well, is quick, and it won't leave you helpless like in past games. Nothing really to say about this since it works well.

Falco Phase: If you want a longer roll, then this is where you're going to get one. You sacrifice the ability to damage, meteor, distance?, and a short end animation for the ability to I-frame dash. Those I-frames can save your life since you can zoom past a Charge Shot, a Bob-omb, whatever. Just make sure nobody's standing where you're going to appear.

I think it'd be workable. So, this becomes a decision of if I want damage or if I want I-frames. Personally, I'd take Falco Phantasm, but Falco Phase can work if you really want those I-frames.

Falco Charge: I have no idea why you'd take this over Phantasm and Phase. You gain more damage and knockback, but you lose so much distance and it has a long start-up and ending. All three can't kill, but this negates your ability to meteor like Phase since it's slow and I don't think it has a meteor effect - based on observations from NinjaLink TS's video. Sure, the knockback's great, but Falco has other short-ranged moves to do this and better: Side Smash, Down Tilt, Nair, Fair, Bair, and, well, throwing.

Remember, this is based on observation, so please, I encourage you to prove me wrong.

Fire Bird: Regular ol' Fire Bird. It's the middle of the three choices where it has decent distance, decent damage, and decent speed. You can't go wrong with the default Up Special.

Fast Fire Bird: This basically makes Fire Bird into a Falco Phantasm. It's incredibly fast compared to the others and you can in theory, spam it, but it won't be doing a lot of damage. Fast Fire Bird is like what NinjaLink TS said about "I need to get back on stage. NOW!".

Its speed comes at a cost: less damage and less range?. So, if you're used to Fire Bird, you might find yourself coming short while gimping someone with a Fair and trying to be back on stage.

Distant Fire Bird: Range. This baby has more range than any of the others, but it's slow which isn't all that bad if you only use it for recoveries and know when it's going to launch to prevent someone from interrupting you or KO'ing you.

Its power is kind of wonky. Spaced, it'll hit multiple times. Up close, it's one strong hit like Fox's Fire Fox.

Reflector: Like the other defaults, it's good. So there's nothing wrong with it. The move is a great interrupter tool since it comes out fast, has range, and can pretty much mess with any move. It'll cancel Din's Fire right when it explodes, it'll trip up Sonic when he's spinning to win, and it'll stop Little Mac from dash attack spamming. It can interrupt a jab combo - just mash the button; I think it's a small frame where the character can act when in the middle of a jab combo.

Accele-Reflector: Basically a faster Reflector with Wolf's Reflector properties of speeding up projectiles. The description said it only reflects when it moves forward, so you need better timing with this one. It still trips, but I don't think speeding up projectiles is enough to warrant its use since it loses half of the Reflector's reflect window.

I don't remember if it does the same damage. If it's really that better compared to the Reflector, then prove me wrong. I encourage you since this is just based on observations.

Reflector Void: People talk about this one a lot. It cancels projectiles, hence, "void" as in "null and void". It's also stronger and knocks people up instead of back. It can't trip people, but it'll send people high enough for a quick Nair, Fair, Up Tilt, whatever.

So, it loses the ability to reflect which is both good and bad. Good because you don't have to play tennis with Ganon- Oh... Bad because you can't punish someone spamming projectiles or have people kill themselves.

It's a choice between do you want tripping and reflect or do you want damage, nullification, and more knockback?

As of Patch 1.04 it will not kill the Villager's Tree. You can thank @ Thinkaman . It still kills Pac-Man's Hydrant. Also, as clarified by Thinkaman, it will reflect "non-energy" projectiles. So, it'll reflect stuff that isn't Mario's/Luigi's Fireball, Samus's Charge Shot, and Lucario's Aura Sphere.

I will do a suggestion for if no one else does and once again it'll be based on observations... See this is what happens when you hire an intern to do a professional's job.

Edit: Grammar and Patch 1.04 changes.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

With Bowser, my current main, I've taken to using up B to approach sometimes. It gives him a buffer against some attacks, it allows him to deal damage on the approach, allows him to go back and forth with more ease than he would by running, etc. Up B 1, Whirling Fortress, goes a shorter distance but has potential to deal more damage and allows Bowser to follow up with a fair or something. It also helps more with his vertical recovery. Up B 3, Sliding Fortress, usually does more damage (6 per hit) but doesn't have the multihit quality, so it's damage floor is higher and its ceiling is lower. It moves faster on the ground which is good for approaching, but I have a harder time following up on a Sliding Fortress hit. It also sucks for vertical recovery and I have Dash Slash to handle horizontal. Which one should I use?

 

[Thinkaman]

Void Reflector still reflects non-energy projectiles, albeit at a low ratio. (Less than 1.0x)

Void Reflector also kills Villager tree, PAC-MAN hydrant, and DHD gunman discus.

Edit:
It no longer works on tree in 1.0.4!

 

[popsofctown]

With Bowser, my current main, I've taken to using up B to approach sometimes. It gives him a buffer against some attacks, it allows him to deal damage on the approach, allows him to go back and forth with more ease than he would by running, etc. Up B 1, Whirling Fortress, goes a shorter distance but has potential to deal more damage and allows Bowser to follow up with a fair or something. It also helps more with his vertical recovery. Up B 3, Sliding Fortress, usually does more damage (6 per hit) but doesn't have the multihit quality, so it's damage floor is higher and its ceiling is lower. It moves faster on the ground which is good for approaching, but I have a harder time following up on a Sliding Fortress hit. It also sucks for vertical recovery and I have Dash Slash to handle horizontal. Which one should I use?

I used to think sliding was way better, but then I noticed there's a little bit of extra prelag on sliding and that makes them balanced.

Sliding is safer sometimes because you can slide it away from your opponent. It also punishes some things OoS that Whirling Fortress can't punish OoS.

The optimization probably depends on matchup, but if your playstyle favors approaching with up B frequently I think slider's safety against hops, blocks, and rolls makes it the better by default

 

[Crescent_Sun]

Mega Man boards seem to say that between the side Bs, ice slasher is the least useful by a good margin, it should likely be red. Rush Coil probably shouldn't be purple anymore with Rush Canceling removed. Skull Barrier is also much more situational than the other two, which is mainly up to preference now.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

another Bowser-related question: Turbulent Bomb. Can someone test if it does as much damage to shields as the default Bowser Bomb? That's my one hesitation about using it over the default

 

[Iron Kraken]

Rosalina & Luma

With Patch 1.0.4, the Luma Shot is now clearly Rosalina's best neutral special. The shorter distance Luma travels away from Rosalina is a significant buff, and you can't get that with the other options. Plus the luma shot itself has good utility.

I firmly believe that all of Rosalina's standard attacks are best. The only question is with Standard Star Bits vs. Speedy Star Bits for her side special. I think depending on the match up, either one could be better.

Suggested Rosalina custom set:

Neutral
1 Luma Shot (standard)

Side
3 Speedy Star Bit -or-
1 Star Bits (standard)

Up
1 Launch Star (standard)

Down
1 Gravitational Pull (standard)

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Rosalina & Luma

With Patch 1.0.4, the Luma Shot is now clearly Rosalina's best neutral special. The shorter distance Luma travels away from Rosalina is a significant buff, and you can't get that with the other options. Plus the luma shot itself has good utility.

I firmly believe that all of Rosalina's standard attacks are best. The only question is with Standard Star Bits vs. Speedy Star Bits for her side special. I think depending on the match up, either one could be better.

Suggested Rosalina custom set:

Neutral
1 Luma Shot (standard)

Side
3 Speedy Star Bit -or-
1 Star Bits (standard)

Up
1 Launch Star (standard)

Down
1 Gravitational Pull (standard)

I think the sheer speed of Luma Warp is still a big point in its favor though. Not blatantly superior anymore since, like you said, the shorter uncharged distance of Luma Shot is a good thing, but I'd settle for Green/Green/whatever. (Is there actually a use for Power Luma Shot? Like, at all?)

I'm also curious why you like the standard Star Bits so much.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

I think the sheer speed of Luma Warp is still a big point in its favor though. Not blatantly superior anymore since, like you said, the shorter uncharged distance of Luma Shot is a good thing, but I'd settle for Green/Green/whatever. (Is there actually a use for Power Luma Shot? Like, at all?)

I'm also curious why you like the standard Star Bits so much.

Power Luma Shot is the best of the three when facing Master Core, so I'm putting it in "PK Bonfire Tier"

 

[Iron Kraken]

I think the sheer speed of Luma Warp is still a big point in its favor though. Not blatantly superior anymore since, like you said, the shorter uncharged distance of Luma Shot is a good thing, but I'd settle for Green/Green/whatever. (Is there actually a use for Power Luma Shot? Like, at all?)

I'm also curious why you like the standard Star Bits so much.

I think Luma Shot and Luma Warp are both good, but I'd personally go with the Luma Shot. I say this as someone who thought that Luma Warp was slightly better before the patch, but I think the short distance of separation that Luma Shot gives you now takes the utility of that move to another level.

Standard Star Bits are pretty good for harassing your opponent with Luma (so it goes well with the standard Luma Shot, I wouldn't use them with Luma Warp). They're definitely better at close range than the Speedy Star Bit attack. So if you're facing an opponent you expect to be in your face for the majority of match, I think it's possible that you'll get more utility out of the standard Star Bits.

Overall Speedy Star Bit is a better attack and I would definitely choose it for the majority of match ups, but I have definitely played matched with the custom speedy star bit and found myself wishing I had chosen the standard star bit attack instead.

 

[Alphatron]

Nayru's Rejection is useless because you're giving up NL damage in order to turn the opponent around. But the endlag isn't short enough to capitalize on that and the move doesn't operate like Mario's cape at all. Hitting people with Nayru's Rejection will give them their UpB recovery back. The move is just bad in every sense.

With the new patch giving extreme speed some terrible endlag, what is the downside to using extreme speed attack over it now?

 

[Wii Fit Bae]

Pikmin Pluck
Hardy Pikmin Pluck
Explosive Pluck

Pikmin Throw
Speedy Pikmin
Butterfinger Pikmin

Winged Pikmin
Winged Pikmin Jump
Mighty Winged Pikmin

Pikmin Order
Crash Whistle
Shrill Whistle


Sun Salutation
Enriched Sun
Sweeping Sun

Header
Huge Header
Weighted Header

Super Hoop
Jumbo Hoop
Hoop Hurricane

Deep Breathing
Volatile Breathing
Steady Breathing

 

[Reaperfan]

My suggestion for



1. Charge Blast
2. Laser Blaze
3. Grenade Launch



1. Flame Pillar
2. Stealth Burst
3. Gunner Missile



1. Lunar Launch
2. Cannon Uppercut
3. Arm Rocket



1. Echo Reflector
2. Bomb Drop
3. Absorbing Vortex