Pancracio17
Smash Apprentice
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Really? I can only perfect pivot left consistently. Different hands I guess.Meanwhile I still can't PP left...
Get ready for an even more slippery meta knight in neutral
This is also a big FU to characters that love to use projectiles that can be ducked under if the opponent has a good crouch. (Sheik,Samus,Robin) The Bayo vs Sheik match-up got slightly better"Meta Knight has no neutral" is now a sick joke. This can easily convert into dash attacks and dash grabs with no commitment.
Have fun, floaties.
"Meta Knight has no neutral" has been a sick joke for a long time now."Meta Knight has no neutral" is now a sick joke.
I'm mainly waiting for a distance list first, since it should be really good for Game & Watch if he gets some distance out of it.Is anyone else thinking.
"AWW MAN"
In regards to step dashing? It's definitely cool, but having to learn it seems like it's gonna be a draaaag.
............its taking me months to PP from one side of BF to the other without screwing up....15 mins of grinding. I can do it with Bayo already.
Time to move on to the dragon.
He gets barely any distance from step dash (I tested). Either that, I didn't step dash correctly.I'm mainly waiting for a distance list first, since it should be really good for Game & Watch if he gets some distance out of it.
For some reason, I swear I've seen someone or some video talking about this before. I might be confusing it before... I think it Bayonetta was involved too, but it wasn't C-stick sliding, that weird Bayonetta can lower her landing lag if she inputs an aerial or something after having done multiple Afterburner Kicks and Witch Twists, and it definitely wasn't Bidou. I swear there was thread talking about something characters could do with crouches and there was a slide. Also, once again, not the crouch perfect pivot.https://youtu.be/KvRsb_2yE5Y hello movement options
What are you, Shikamaru?Is anyone else thinking.
"AWW MAN"
In regards to step dashing? It's definitely cool, but having to learn it seems like it's gonna be a draaaag.
There's always Ito. Pretty sure he was the leading Meta Knight until people saw Leo and then he drops out of everyone's radar.............its taking me months to PP from one side of BF to the other without screwing up....
Why do I get the feeling the American top players will completely ignore the new tech until Leo shows everyone how its done again?
And Ryu step dash confirmed to not be good.
Once again proof that Ryu has specific limitations.
And some people still want this man nerfed.
im assuming bayo cannot do a sliding witch time. is that what you've seen?I thought it might be acceleration but as I recall Ryus walk accel is above average so idk.
Here you are:Might not do anything, but it would be helpful to know the DLC characters' initial walk speed, walk acceleration, dash speed, dash acceleration, dash deceleration, etc.
15 minutes of grinding what exactly?15 mins of grinding. I can do it with Bayo already.
Time to move on to the dragon.
Is THIS the weird crouch slide that Bayos indirectly do when we spam the crouch button while walking?
I love you.Here you are:
Character|Init Walk|Walk Accel|Walk Max|Traction|Init Dash|Dash Accel|Dash Decel|Dash Max
Mewtwo|0.3|0.1|1.2|0.04|1.4|0|0.1|2.05
Ryu|0.1|1|0.75|0.06|1.6|0.0998|0.04|1.6
Lucas|0.08|0.1|0.85|0.045|1.3|0.08|0.02|1.5
Roy|0.15|0|1.15|0.06|1.4|0.07|0|1.95
Cloud|0.15|0|1.1|0.055|1.8|0.09|0.01|1.97
Bayonetta|0.1|0.1|0.9|0.055|1.7|0.0942|0.04|1.6
Corrin|0.15|0|1.15|0.065|1.8|0.0724|0.01|1.45
That should all be accurate.
Edit: Double checked everything.
Above average my ass. More like ***** on everyone's walk acceleration. Hey, gotta make up for having a low walk speed in a game where walking is almost jogging. Still, probably to emulate Street Fighter where walks look more "responsive". Eh, I don't know.I thought it might be acceleration but as I recall Ryus walk accel is above average so idk.
I didn't say anything about Meta Knight. I meant that Leo proved how dangerous PP can be when most of the other top players didn't think it was even worth implementing in thier game (only other player I've seen make use of PP consistently was Larry Lurr.)For some reason, I swear I've seen someone or some video talking about this before. I might be confusing it before... I think it Bayonetta was involved too, but it wasn't C-stick sliding, that weird Bayonetta can lower her landing lag if she inputs an aerial or something after having done multiple Afterburner Kicks and Witch Twists, and it definitely wasn't Bidou. I swear there was thread talking about something characters could do with crouches and there was a slide. Also, once again, not the crouch perfect pivot.
Anyway, I'm curious, outside of why this works in the first place, as to why Meta Knight has the longest or one of the longest "step dashes". Nothing about his walk specs seem peculiar, slightly above initial walk velocity, 0.16, regular 0.1 walk acceleration, etc. It probably isn't even his traction, 0.055, which is actually above-average since Mario's is 0.045, but that could have a factor since as people saw in the video, Falco and Fox barely moved anywhere compared to Meta Knight (and Bayonetta). It looks like Falco gets equal or less distance from using "step dash" compared to his normal dash... At the same time, in the same section where he showed Falco's "step dash", Link was shown before him and traveled even more than Falco and Link only has a 0.01 difference in traction to Falco at 0.064.
One thing I might factor in, but I'm hesitant on considering is dash specs since it doesn't seem like dashes are part of "step dash". "Step dash" seems to only be a two-step walk and a crouch. You never dash for it which... once again, I kind of wished it wasn't called "step dash" because it could get confusing like how dash is lumped together with running when they're separate things and repeated dashes are called foxtrots when... whatever. It could have been called "step slide" or something. Issues with naming aside, if dash specs were a factor for whatever reason, then two things could be considered: dash speed itself and dash length. For Meta Knight, his peculiarities with dash is his sixth-highest dash speed, 1.75, under Lucario and Pikachu (1.8), Samus (1.86), Falco (1.9), Little Mac (2.05), and Fox (2.4). Under him would be Captain Falcon, Diddy Kong, Sheik, and ZSS all with 1.7 dash speeds. That wouldn't entirely explain it since if dash speed was a major factor, then everyone around and above him would have a really good "step dash", especially Fox with his stupid 2.4 dash speed. An aside: caught an error to my Smash 4 movement value compilation: I wrote down 1.3 for Zelda's dash speed instead of 1.6. Whoops.
The other thing would be his dash length not dash total frames -- once again, confusing names. Dash total frames we have data on:
Most characters have dashes that have 11 total frames. Meta Knight's is 13 which itself isn't limited to him as there's a group of other characters with 13 total frame dashes. The only real "oddballs" are Corrin and Sheik (8), Mii Gunner, Mr. G&W, and Samus (9), Falco (12), and Yoshi (15). There's a majority of 11 total frame dashes, groups of 13, 14, 16, and most of the Fire Emblem characters minus Corrin and Ike in the 17 total frame dash group. I doubt anyone's gone through their animations to check specifically what they do for their dashes, but a 17 frame dash isn't bad as Street Fighter V's Nash can attest to; Nash's dash essentially has 8 frames of startup and moves during its remaining 11 frames.
There might be characters who have dashes like this, but it might not make a difference since one, Smash and Street Fighter are different games, and two, SFV's dash total frames are much higher than in Smash's where the lowest is 8 frames and the highest is 17 while SFV's lowest is 15, Chun-Li and Rashid's and the highest being 25 frames, Zangief's. Note: unknown about the DLC characters. Also, Rashid's the only character to have a normal run in SFV -- Ken can run, but it's activated through V-trigger. Anyway, I digress.
Now, dash length... I don't think we have data on. As far as I know, nobody's gone out and plotted out how far each character's dash goes. It probably not as simple as looking at all the dash values and saying, "Fox has the highest since his dash speed is 2.4." Fox does have a long dash, but average total frames for his dash. Little Mac's is also good, but I'm no sure, but then you go to Falco and Samus and theirs goes almost nowhere compared to Fox and Little Mac's. Then you look at Marth and Roy's and theirs travel quite far. Maybe each character has a value for how far their dashes goes. I don't know.
The last possible thing I can think of is just the difference in how characters move during their walk. Did you notice that when Meta Knight starts walking, he slides a bit? If you take someone like Falco and Fox, they don't slide during their first few steps. Falco does this weird tip-toe thing while Fox power walks. Or someone like Marth where there's this noticeable delay before he begins moving which is probably his walk acceleration. That being said, if this where the case, then Roy should have an insane "step dash" since he slides far during his first few steps of walking. Then there's the whole pivot-walking thing which if you do it with Falco, he does slide around a bit and it's been a thing for Falco since Melee. So, sliding during a walk...
Basically, I have no idea why "step dashes" work.
What are you, Shikamaru?
Ah, English dubbing of Naruto... Last time I watched was when Toonami aired it way back then. Think I stopped watching at the Orochimaru arc where he there's this giant fight between him and the third Hokage. Sporadically watching and missing a ton of episodes. That reminds me, I should try to watch all of G Gundam. Holy hell, that brings back memories.
Anyway, "step dashing" is cool and all, but I really would like to see good movement be at least a basic mid-level thing before stuff like bidou, "step dash", whatever becomes commonplace. It's not even a "difficult" skill to be able to move well. I'm waiting for the days when this kind of movement is common: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Pbt7yqiZg and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8h_PE3o8Co. I listed all the players who participated in Tamisuma's Falco-only tournaments or played as Falco in the other tournaments in the Falco boards. ALL OF THEM I would say have good movement. Elsewhere on the giant list of Falco players? What? AC, Anragon, Cyro and, StarPrime? The **** is going on? Why is everyone moving like they just started playing or have no idea that other movement options exist beyond running and jumping forward? You can still do that, but stop being so predictable. The recent crew battles on Tamisuma featuring Ryu vs. Cloud and Ryu vs. Mewtwo had horrible movement -- Emblem Lord, you'd be mad as hell watching these two videos. While I don't know Ryu enough, I'd say the Ryu players were decent except one dude who dropped the ball hard and failed to connect a Dair 2-3 times after breaking a Cloud's shield -- dude, just charge a freaking Up Smash or something --, but they mostly bumrushed the hell in. You do not do that when you're slower than Cloud and Mewtwo. You do not do that when they severely out-range you. You do not do that when your jump and hop is rigid compared to everyone else in the goddamn game. And you especially don't do that if that's all you freaking do. Holy crap, why the hell do you think it's a fine idea to run in and jump in with your stubby Nair against Cloud and Mewtwo? Do I need to bribe, convince, or threaten a Falco player to switch to Ryu to show people how to move? Anragon already has a Ryu...
There's always Ito. Pretty sure he was the leading Meta Knight until people saw Leo and then he drops out of everyone's radar.
I suggest you put in the time with Fox. It's pretty sick with him.This is hella hard to do consistently. But it's significantly more distance than a perfect pivot.
Stop giving away our secrets >=(I suggest you put in the time with Fox. It's pretty sick with him.
This guy did.Has anyone got this working on a 3DS? I know it's probably theoretically possible but with the tiny, limited analog nub it seems insanely difficult.