Squirtle Tactical Discussion

[Charizard92]

Especially since there's also:

Delfino plaza (part of the time)
Haliberd (part time)
Lylat Cruise
PS2 (part time)
PS1 (part time)

 

[Toby.]

So...watergun. I've taken to jumping off the edge so that the opponenet is between me and the stage, and gunning them towards the stage itself. It's effective because it takes advantage of the forward momentum they have rather than going against it. Its usefulness depends on the stage, but on places such as final destination, battlefield and smashville you can get people caught underneath pretty nicely.

Of course there are some characters you wouldn't bother doing it on, but thats a given.

Thoughts?

 

[PkTrainerCris]

mmm cool, but i think its very risky, it must be hard to recover after that, and remember:

You must recover!!!

by the way, is it just water gun, or an aimed down water gun?? heck, i dont even know if water gn can be aimed, specially in the air

 

[Natch]

Best jab in the game. His AAA combo is my primary attack. You can imagine that my Squirtle gets really tired fast.

But it comes out on FRAME 1.

Frame 2 actually, and it's tied with Lucas' jab. ZSS' Jab comes out on frame 1.

 

[Onxy]

Frame 2 actually, and it's tied with Lucas' jab. ZSS' Jab comes out on frame 1.

It's still a lot better.... =/

 

[Viny]

I use squirtle to edgeguard Fair to the edge and edgeguard time ^^

 

[Onxy]

I use squirtle to edgeguard Fair to the edge and edgeguard time ^^

...........What?!?

 

[Adriel]

...........What?!?

He use SQUARTLE to edgeguard Fair to the edge and edgeguard time ^^

 

[Retro Gaming]

I use Squirtle to edgeguard: Fair to the edge, then its edgeguard time ^^

Is what I think you were supposed to take from that. Anyway, I've been working with Squirtle the most, recently. Starting as him in friendly matches just to force myself to play as him.

I'll start experimenting a little bit with Water Gun and Withdraw soon.

 

[Onxy]

He use SQUARTLE to edgeguard Fair to the edge and edgeguard time ^^

Stop calling him Squartle!

 

[Toby.]

mmm cool, but i think its very risky, it must be hard to recover after that, and remember:

by the way, is it just water gun, or an aimed down water gun?? heck, i dont even know if water gn can be aimed, specially in the air

You aim it down, which lets you start from higher up. Recovery isn't very hard if you do it like that.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

ohh i see, so this imay be very usefull, water gun actually does great pushback if it uses the oponent's momentum... right???.. and btw, how "down" goes the water stream when you aim it down??

 

[Retro Gaming]

Water Gun gives a considerable push, considering the large amount of control you have over Squirtle as you initiate it. You also get a push from all the Water. You're completely vulnerable during it, though, so I don't know how useful this is in a real-game application.

I'll start using it versus a character that won't just destroy you for it (Metaknight, ROB, etc)

We need to run some priority tests on Dair.

 

[Hydde]

ohh i see, so this imay be very usefull, water gun actually does great pushback if it uses the oponent's momentum... right???.. and btw, how "down" goes the water stream when you aim it down??

like -30 degrees...not much

 

[Tien2500]

I haven't seen anyone mention this so maybe its just common knowledge but you can control the speed and distance of withdraw. Smashing forward with withdraw will cause him to go faster than if you tilt. If you pull back on the joystick you'll end the withdraw faster otherwise you'll skid along further.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

i didnt know that smashing forward made withdraw faster.... how fast is it?

 

[Toby.]

Not particularly fast. I looked into it briefly a while back and it never seemed to have a reliable increase in speed. It seemed to fluctuate quite a bit.
It's still not worth the risk of being footstooled. That can hurt

@Retro: Generally its pretty safe because I save it for people that recover from below the stage. From squirtles position they are quite far away, really.

 

[Retro Gaming]

You're saving what, now? Water Gun? Dair?

 

[PltnmNgl]

When do you guys charge watergun? How often do you shoot it?

 

[Tien2500]

You can actually control the speed boost of withdraw pretty reliably. Its still generally not worth the risk but its still worth noting.

 

[-Mars-]

Frame 2 actually, and it's tied with Lucas' jab. ZSS' Jab comes out on frame 1.

Sheiks jab comes out on frame 2 and i'm pretty sure that Foxs' does as well.........Squirtle jab is fast, but there are characters with jabs equally as fast. Snakes ftilt also comes out in 2 frames so having a 2 frame jab is nice, but a little overrated.

 

[Bestiarius]

The level I play on most of the time is Battlefield, just because it is one of the most balanced levels in the game. Anyway, I find Squirtle to be insanely fast at attacking, but I don't do much hydroplaning. I just don't see the opportunities as well as I should, I guess. How useful is it? Or, better stated, how opportunity specific is it?

 

[Fearmy]

Mind games are needed. Fox Trott, Shell shift in many ways (Ex: shellshift one way, then quickly slam it the other way to cancel it with a non moving fox-trot) lots of stuff you can really do that you can't really write down on paper.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Squirtle slides obscene distances if he Fairs/Bairs into a sloped surface. I'm Fair'n into the pipe on Yoshi's Island (Melee) about half way up it and I will very quickly slide all the way up it to the end. Funny mindgames.

 

[Bestiarius]

OK, let me ask it this way: how often does a good opportunity for HYDROPLANING come up? I know that shellshifting is one of Squirtle's most useful tactics. I may be a n00b on the boards, but I've been maining PT much longer than I've had an account, so I know the importance of mindgames and making Squirtle as unpredictable as possible. It just seems to me that hydroplaning isn't something that is usually an option. Is it?

 

[Toby.]

You're saving what, now? Water Gun? Dair?

I only saw this today. Whooops.

I was talking about using watergun on opponents who weren't in a position to counterattack effectively.

 

[Toby.]

A question

It really depends on your play style and theirs. Ideally you want to be doing it when the opponent doesn't expect it or when they are in end lag. These could be frequent or rare. It also depends on if you are hydroplaning or doing a shift'd fsmash or dsmash. They are all match up and player dependent.

Edit: Arg sorry double post.

 

[Onxy]

Hey, NEW tactic idea! Have you ever held down jab, pressed the A button after, then watched him attack with his second attack only to go back to his first attack? That means you can keep doing the jab to jab cancel, and you can travel across the stage with it if you wanted to. Find a use for this! It could be great against users that have a projectile that can be swatted like Samus.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Combat-walking?

 

[Onxy]

IDK what it's called, but it's the same thing Ike has with his jab travel.

 

[Toby.]

Combat walking = super fast fatigue drain

I haven't used it very much, but I've often thought that there must be something cool we can do with it.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Not really. =(

Anyway, I've been going heavy on Squirtle, so I have some more things to say.

I've cut down on the shell-shifting again. Basically the only way I can explain this is that the more you use it, the more your opponent will get used to it. If you want to spam some form of fake-movement, spam empty short-hops. Why? Opponents are more used to empty short-hops, seeing as it's universal.

As far as shellshifting is concerned, the more variations of this that you can preform, the better. Fox-troting out of this is useful, as well as jumping out of it for increased momentum. Actually, spam that jump, too. It makes it way easier to land behind your opponent when you attack with an aerial. Aim for this everytime.

I sometimes attack slightly higher than my opponent, and then fast-fall into them. Since most of Squirtle's aerials are sex kicks, this works well. The knockback is minimal, so attack again immedietly.

Never attack a grounded opponent with an aerial unless you have a jump remaining. Back off if you don't.

 

[Toby.]

I agree about using the momentum jump to get behind shields. I wub that jump so much <3.

You can use the opponent's understanding of hydroplaning to set up some fun traps. At medium distances I like to run away and shift back as if I'm about to hydroplane. At this point the most common response is a shield. You have a couple options from here. Since you should be back to running towards your opponent at this point, a favourite of mine is to go into a forward hydroplane in first few moments of the run, which often catches them as they drop their shield.

The basic effect is that you delay the attack until after the point where they expect it to occur. People generally don't expect a forward hydroplane so soon after a pivot.

Using the shellshift to do a retreating slide jab is a nice way to fake out in a safe manner. I agree that you shouldn't be spamming any of these, though.

Regarding your last point: attacking with nair then DI'ing back and autocancelling into a jab or ftilt seems fairly safe.

 

[Bomber7]

I have a question to see if I havent been dreaming these past few days.

I was playing online for fun and I was bored so I decided to start beating up with sandbag. Well I decided to experiment with A combo(the 3 hit move) and I discovered something which I will try to put it in the best understandable way I can cuz I think I've figured it out but I'm still working on it and I do havea vid on my wii I'd like to share showing it. But anyway. I found out that if you hold down A and wait till squirtle makes that second hit and I think at at the same time while the second hit is being made or like a milisecond before the second hit ends, you tilt with your analog stick.

If performed successfully you get a basic infinite combo. Basically the same as chaingrabbing. Cuz if your target gets knocked down and you have that combo down, they are screwed. The vid I have is just a test, 2 min match b/t me and a lvl 1 sheik but around 400-50 seconds left I pull off the combo. I just need someone who is able o post it onthe boards, cuz I cant youtube it. If I got a friend code from someone and send it to thm I'd be happy if it got posted.

If this has never been mentioned before then good for me, but if it has, sorry I was just trying to help with something I found new.

 

[CHOMPY]

Its probably a noobie question but should I always Fast Fall with squirtle everytime I do an shorthop aerial?

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Should not do "always" nothing with squirtle, the ninja turtle is one of the most unpredictable characters, take the most benefith from that! :D

 

[darkNES386]

I've cut down on the shell-shifting again. Basically the only way I can explain this is that the more you use it, the more your opponent will get used to it.

Do you ever experiment with pivot cancels?

 

[DUB]

I was just talking to a ganon main in the chat and he is saying that squirtle is absolutely dreadful. Next to CF if individual pokemon where in tiers. I think differently though, I think his aerial game and combo ability are outstanding. His ability to gimp is insane just like his priority. Looking for opinions here.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Do you ever experiment with pivot cancels?

I do, but I'm tending to shellshift now only when I think I need to bait an opening for a pretty risky attack.

...So basically, I'm still doing it a lot.

 

[Steeler]

I was just talking to a ganon main in the chat and he is saying that squirtle is absolutely dreadful. Next to CF if individual pokemon where in tiers. I think differently though, I think his aerial game and combo ability are outstanding. His ability to gimp is insane just like his priority. Looking for opinions here.

dub it seems like there are two camps for each pokemon: one side thinks the pokemon is like high tier and the other thinks the pokemon is almost as bad as falcon...lol.

funny a ganon main would think that though. i wonder if he's ever played a squirtle, considering squirt does pretty well against him.

also i have to say something:

utilt. use it. use it please. spot dodge through someone's dash attack? roll or short hop air dodge through a smash and are right next to the opponent?

utilt.