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[Igzex]

I offer my prayers daily for Our Fair Lady to receive buffs that matter greatly for the competitive metagame if only to finally see peace and harmony exist in paradise. A beautiful world full of nice things and devoid of people who by intention or not make themselves heinously discomforting to those who devote themselves to the fair lady...

 

[Gui JP]

You ten times the man I am for being brave enough to attempt to master him on 3DS with that circle pad nonsense.

My circle pad's kind of broke.
(The cover is fine, but it's bendable in ways it's not meant to be.)

I did throw down the cash at last for a Wii U tho, so that's good.
(It's not going to fix that bair/Tastu thing anytime soon tho.)

 

[Gallant Blade]

So would level 9 CPUs be sufficient to train against? Or not?

I offer my prayers daily for Our Fair Lady to receive buffs that matter greatly for the competitive metagame if only to finally see peace and harmony exist in paradise. A beautiful world full of nice things and devoid of people who by intention or not make themselves heinously discomforting to those who devote themselves to the fair lady...

If I may, I shall join you in this endeavor. The problems can be fixed, but we should practice a bit more. For the big 150/Our Fair Lady/Mewtwo the Bill Nye Guy.

Level 9 CPUs into his game are easier than Brawl, in my opinion. (No, I am not using IMO)

 

[meleebrawler]

So would level 9 CPUs be sufficient to train against? Or not?



If I may, I shall join you in this endeavor. The problems can be fixed, but we should practice a bit more. For the big 150/Our Fair Lady/Mewtwo the Bill Nye Guy.

Level 9 CPUs into his game are easier than Brawl, in my opinion. (No, I am not using IMO)

Stick to level 8s. 9s have frame perfect timing that lets them do things no human will ever regularly pull off, not to mention that all cpus are near impossible to mindgame.

Bots are fine if you're just trying to get the hang of your character but they won't help you get better against other players in the long run.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Smash 4 level 9 CPUs are cheating douchebags, it's pretty much impossible to frame trap them while chasing them in the air unless you are playing in a stage like BattleField where they dodge near the platforms. Another one is that when you are in the air trying to land back to the stage, the CPU player will always be exactly where you are going to land; try shifting the stick left and right repeatedly when you are over them then see how they read your inputs and move in the same rhythm as you.

In 9.0 Classic Mode Team Battles is where their cheapness really shines especially because of items; you are given an ultra weak, super stupid CPU partner, and God help you if Assist Trophies, Poke Balls or Dragoon/Daybreak parts start falling. Before the item even appears on screen, the CPU will always jump in the place the item is going to appear and grab it in mid air. It's worse with the Dragoon or Daybreak because all three parts only require to be collected between the two players, so the moment one part appears, expect the CPU to gather the other two in no time.

I've been tempted to create a thread just to ***** about them.

 

[LRodC]

Smash 4 level 9 CPUs are cheating douchebags, it's pretty much impossible to frame trap them while chasing them in the air unless you are playing in a stage like BattleField where they dodge near the platforms. Another one is that when you are in the air trying to land back to the stage, the CPU player will always be exactly where you are going to land; try shifting the stick left and right repeatedly when you are over them then see how they read your inputs and move in the same rhythm as you.

In 9.0 Classic Mode Team Battles is where their cheapness really shines especially because of items; you are given an ultra weak, super stupid CPU partner, and God help you if Assist Trophies, Poke Balls or Dragoon/Daybreak parts start falling. Before the item even appears on screen, the CPU will always jump in the place the item is going to appear and grab it in mid air. It's worse with the Dragoon or Daybreak because all three parts only require to be collected between the two players, so the moment one part appears, expect the CPU to gather the other two in no time.

I've been tempted to create a thread just to ***** about them.

As someone who beat all the challenges, it's true. Classic 9.0 without losing a life is almost impossible without really good equipment.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

I had to beat Classic on 9.0 without losing a life using equipment. I also had to use Ness since he was my best character. Added a Vampiric one helped a lot during the last battle.

 

[Xzsmmc]

As someone who beat all the challenges, it's true. Classic 9.0 without losing a life is almost impossible without really good equipment.

I cheesed it with a Mega Man variation of the Crazy Orders Mario+First strike+Homerun bat thing. Wasn't worth dealing the CPU's blatant cheating to try it legit.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Trying no death Classic 9.0 legit is a goddamn death wish.

I used a Bowser buffed with two auto healing pieces and one vampiric badge. The irony is that by equipping these three Bowser was weakened as a result, but it still took me only 10 tries to complete the challenge with it.

Goddamn intruder alerts and AI.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

You want to know what else is freaking impossible?

Golden Sun The Lost Age's Battle Mode. First three matches, on the third one I get Dullahan. Fricking Dullahan! How am I supposed to beat that thing when I can't prepare my party?
And if somehow you manage to beat him...congratulations! Fight him again after two, three more battles while you are still licking the wounds of your last encounter.

 

[Aqua Admin Shelly]

I did it with a custom Ike. Don't remember what the combination was though.

 

[Smashbro596]

hai guys :3 im mainly over at the k. rool thread now. wanna see k. rool in :D once hes in i dont care who else gets in afterwards XD
anyways. mewtwo in smash 4 is epic. >w<

 

[Gallant Blade]

I usually play on the 3DS version just because I am more use to the controls being closer to each other.

Edit: There was a problem with my comment. Sorry.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Is it OK if I would like for Mewtwo to be competitively viable, but am content with just having him the way he is now? It's kinda hard to explain, but, to give you gist of it, I'm totally fine with Mewtwo the way he is now, but I'd like it if he were higher-tier. I push for buffs and stuff, but I try not to be whiny and aggressive about it, and I won't be crushed and abandon Mewtwo if they don't happen. I'm only asking because I feel like this is somewhat targeted at me, given the wording of my closing sentence of my first post on this page. Please don't take this the wrong way; I'm not trying to be snarky or anything. I'm just asking if you think my stance on the matter is acceptable.

It was not at all pointed towards you. It was just my two cents on the argument being had.

I understand if anyone wants Mewtwo to be better, that's fine. But the problem is that the people who complain about his awfulness don't want him to just be better, they want him TOP TIER. Why? Because it's their favorite character. That is what I mean by greedy. If you want him to be better that's fine I have no cwalms. But complaining that he's not Competitively Viable while over half the cast isn't either is sort of ridiculous.

Rant over. I just wish the Smash community would play Smash.

 

[Gallant Blade]

hai guys :3 im mainly over at the k. rool thread now. wanna see k. rool in :D once hes in i dont care who else gets in afterwards XD
anyways. mewtwo in smash 4 is epic. >w<

Hey, two things. One, how are the fans on the K. Rool page doing ever since the costume reveal and two, are you going to transform into something and chase me because you are a Mew and I am a Gallade?

 

[RayNoire]

It was not at all pointed towards you. It was just my two cents on the argument being had.

I understand if anyone wants Mewtwo to be better, that's fine. But the problem is that the people who complain about his awfulness don't want him to just be better, they want him TOP TIER. Why? Because it's their favorite character. That is what I mean by greedy. If you want him to be better that's fine I have no cwalms. But complaining that he's not Competitively Viable while over half the cast isn't either is sort of ridiculous.

Rant over. I just wish the Smash community would play Smash.

I definitely don't want Mewtwo to be top tier. I like that I'm the only Mewtwo player in my region. Hell, if it were up to me I'd be the only one in the world (sorry guys). Making him top tier, especially combined with his general popularity as a character, would flood the market.

...Then again, no one plays Pac-Man and he's actually good.

Can we at least be Pac-Man?

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

It was not at all pointed towards you. It was just my two cents on the argument being had.

I understand if anyone wants Mewtwo to be better, that's fine. But the problem is that the people who complain about his awfulness don't want him to just be better, they want him TOP TIER. Why? Because it's their favorite character. That is what I mean by greedy.

There is nothing wrong with wanting your favorite character to be good or top tier. Doesn't mean that you're greedy. I'd be more worried if you made your character blantly overpowered.

 

[Metros]

Well well well.

Japanese tier list. And look where Mewtwo is.

NOT LOW. WHAT A SURPRISE.

Can you stop complaining now guys? I don't care if it's 'official' or not. I knew he wasn't low.

https://game8.jp/archives/14691

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I remember seeing that list before the Ryu/Roy/Lucas update. It has mostly stayed the same, but I wonder what the criteria is for choosing each character placements. They don't seem to go very deep in what makes or breaks a character.

For example, Ike's placement. I don't think he merits his bottom tier placement especially when he got a myriad of buffs, but they give superficial explanations for his ranking, probably to be as reader friendly as possible considering the blog-esque nature of the site. "His Jab hits don't connect reliably", which was already solved in one patch; "severe judgement of his Down Air meteor"; "Shines in free-for-alls but has a hard time in one-on-one format", etc. They do mention the high end lag of his aerials which is a negative for sure. It is also likely that, since a lot of people in Japan don't seem to like Ike (remember "gorilla"?) they might not bother enough with him even after the patch.
It also says that for the sake of ranking they collect opinions of everyone on the site, so they probably don't use tournament results. I'm not saying that they may be wrong but I would love if they could go into deeper detail. And the format they use is For Glory, meaning Omega Stages only. So yeah... I would rather wait until the Smash DLC is terminated before determining a ranking.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It is also likely that, since a lot of people in Japan don't seem to like Ike (remember "gorilla"?)

False. There was a recent popularity poll for FE. Ike's the most popular character in the franchise, the reason people called him gorilla is the same reason we say Ike went to the gym

 

[cstonic]

Well well well.

Japanese tier list. And look where Mewtwo is.

NOT LOW. WHAT A SURPRISE.

Can you stop complaining now guys? I don't care if it's 'official' or not. I knew he wasn't low.

https://game8.jp/archives/14691

Ehhhhhhh, I can't really agree with the Japanese tier list. For a lot of reasons.
-Sonic being Top 3 (Second in the game) Ahead of Zss, Rosa, Mario, Luigi and others
-MEWTWO BEING 18TH WHAT (Where there are better characters like Kirby, Megaman, ROB, Meta Knight, Olimar, Pits, and Donkey Kong being much lower.)
-Duck Hunt in top 15....
-insert other whack placements

Remember how ZeRo and Abadango said that the Japanese play way more defensively? I think this tier list reflects that perfectly.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Defensive, eh? That is kind of ironic considering that all of the japanese players I know always rush towards me. There was even some guy who used Duck Hunt and did nothing but rush at me, he didn't even fire a single projectile, in fact no special moves save for Up B of course were used. True story.

 

[Igzex]

This is my tier list in my metagame

Rosalina tier: Rosalina and Luma
Top Tier: Pac Man
Mid Tier: Everyone Else
Mid-Low Tier: Sheik, Mii Sword Fighter

Then again my metagame is multiplayer free for all where it's almost anyone's game except Rosalina and Luma can have the game whenever she wants because of Gravitational Pull.

 

[RayNoire]

That tier list looks like the Japanese version of Eventhubs.

 

[Smashbro596]

Hey, two things. One, how are the fans on the K. Rool page doing ever since the costume reveal and two, are you going to transform into something and chase me because you are a Mew and I am a Gallade?

one: were all holding out hope for k. rool. i mean... i was one of the people still holding out for mewtwo even after the 3ds release and before the 50 fact special.if mewtwo made it in despite the odds against it... why not k. rool?
and 2: nahh. gallade are cool. owo

 

[DrRiceBoy]

Disregarding the fact whether Mewtwo is low tier or not, that tier list really doesn't reflect our metagame. Like others have said, the Japanese metagame is really different from ours. Their stagelist, playstyle, and characters they use are all different than what we normally see. According to the Smash wiki, a tier list is based on several different things: the metagame, effectiveness of character's strategies, moveset and statistics, matchup spread, and tournament results. For example, in America, we have players like ESAM who get great tournament results, which is why Pikachu is so high in our tier lists. As far as I know, Japan does not really have any notable Pikachus - which is why he's so low there. Japanese players tend to play defensive and use Omegas a lot - which is why Sonic and Duck Hunt are so high in their tier lists.

I feel like you all are jumping to conclusions a bit too quickly. It's nice to compare our tier lists with there's, but to say one is more accurate than the other is a bit ignorant. Like I said earlier, we have to take into account how different our environments are. The characters that we think are good and bad may be completely different than what Japan thinks simply because our metagames are so different.

Besides, both tier lists aren't 100% accurate. Things change all the time.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

And besides, I refuse to believe that DK is at the bottom of the list; even if he ends up low he is not THAT low. That one I'm pretty sure that japanese don't really care that much about him, none of my friends like him and one particularly hates him when I choose him.

 

[I_hate_usernames]

Who care what tier he's in, he's better than he was in Melee. Isn't that all you could ask for?

 

[MewtwoX825]

Who care what tier he's in, he's better than he was in Melee. Isn't that all you could ask for?

We didn't ask for **** hitboxes or being lighter than he was in Melee.

It matters what tier he's in cause right now people want Mewtwo to be competitively viable and not become a damn joke after waiting 14 years for him to be playable in Smash again.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Well well well.

Japanese tier list. And look where Mewtwo is.

NOT LOW. WHAT A SURPRISE.

Can you stop complaining now guys? I don't care if it's 'official' or not. I knew he wasn't low.

https://game8.jp/archives/14691

Lucina (and by extension, Marth) really shouldn't be so low, so I'm not really trusting this one. (although placements for MK and Mewtwo seem sound)
Edit: And Greninja seems more A tier to me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We didn't ask for **** hitboxes or being lighter than he was in Melee. It matters what tier he's in cause people want Mewtwo to be competitively viable and not become a damn joke after waiting 14 years for him to be playable in Smash again.

Er...no. People wanted Mewtwo back as he was 'fun to play as'

 

[MewtwoX825]

Er...no. People wanted Mewtwo back as he was 'fun to play as'

That's not what I meant. Of course people wanted him back for that and many other reasons. And him being fun to play as does not equal how good he is in the competitive seen. Any character is fun to use on a casual level.

Right now most people don't even see him as fun to play cause of all the issues he has that makes it intimidating for people to even use him.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's not what I meant. Of course people wanted him back for that and many other reasons. And him being fun to play as does not equal how good he is in the competitive seen. Any character is fun to use on a casual level. Right now most people don't even see him as fun to play cause of all the issues he has that makes it intimidating for people to even use him.

Your post implied people wanted him just so he could be good

 

[MewtwoX825]

Your post implied people wanted him just so he could be good

Sorry. I'm mean that right now people want him to be good.

 

[Igzex]

All I wanted was the voice of Miriam Pultro. I wonder when a patch will address that issue...

 

[LRodC]

That tier list looks suspect. In my opinion, Ike, Marth, Lucina, and Donkey Kong are criminally low, and Mewtwo is far too high.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Speaking of tiers and unused characters, it kind of reminds how Zero is a top tier character in MvC3 but no one has ever won a major tournament with him on a team. Or so I've been told.

 

[Browny]

And here we have Abadango's tier list

http://abadango.com/ssb4-tier-list-ver-1-10/

"He has many moves like d-tilt, DA, and Shadow Ball that he can use in the neutral. But, his large hurtbox and light weight make his easy to kill. He pretty much doesn't lose to low tiers, but many matchups against high tiers are extremely tough. However, his ability to win off of a hard read or something is high. (In Japanese, it's described as One-Chance ability)"

Looks good to me

Don't you just love it when players are optimistic about Mewtwo? Or should I say realistic? Mr 4th place at Evo 2015 doesn't make up **** online to rustle peoples jimmies, he knows what hes talking about.

 

[LRodC]

Mewtwo is better than I previously gave him credit for. I admit, placing him at 2nd worst in the game was a little hasty since I was focusing only on his bad hitboxes. However, I still think he's too heavily flawed to compete due to his hitboxes, light weight, and hurtbox. I think he's low tier, but not bottom tier due to his insane punish potential. To be honest, I'm not even sure who I'd consider worst. Abadango's placement might be a little too high for my liking for Mewtwo, but he does have some potential that nobody's paying much attention to.

Also, where are the other characters?

 

[Browny]

Lmfao I got my post deleted and threatened with a forum ban from the tier list thread for telling people to stop blindly following zero and coming up with excuses as to why Abadango thinks differently to them (which is usually nonsense like 'the japanese meta isnt as serious' and 'but zero said this, the japanese are wrong').

Its so worth it though, sick of that thread.

Too many people treat everything Zero says like the word of their god. This is the guy who called Lucario broken overpowered because HE LOST A STOCK TO A LUCARIO, ONCE.

Whatever, everyone who talks trash about Mewtwo over there is a pot filler anyway.