Special moves in competitive play

[thatsmybutta]

Since almost all of the super smash brothers melee tournements include no items, it seems like tourneys would be the same when brawl comes out. In the trailers, in order to perform special attacks, you need to pick up that little smash bros. icon; so i was wondering, do you think there will be special moves in tournement play?

 

[M]

I hope so but it is doubtful, as it technically is just an item that can inflict massive damage.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Since almost all of the super smash brothers melee tournements include no items, it seems like tourneys would be the same when brawl comes out. In the trailers, in order to perform special attacks, you need to pick up that little smash bros. icon; so i was wondering, do you think there will be special moves in tournement play?

What do you think? Sorry but I don't see why you're asking the question when you already answered it yourself.

I hope so

You hope that those stupid attacks are going to be part of competitive play? Why, because you can't compete for jack in the existing smash brothers games? Thank god your mentality won't be shared by those who will build the pro scene for brawl, if there even is one. Depends if they whor it out to the noobs of smash for the sole purpose of selling a lot of copies, or if they'll try to also cater to smash brothers players with real skill

Normally I wouldn't be so blunt, but even the mere suggestion that an attack caused by an item would be in tournament play is so ludicrous is merits the above response.

 

[thatsmybutta]

dylan tnga has a little anger problem doesnt he

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

dylan tnga has a little anger problem doesnt he

I really don't get why everyone in this forum gets the impression I'm pissed off. I mostly feel sorry for the excessive ammount of nub smash mentality I see posted around here. But hey if telling me I have anger issues makes you feel better about yourself go for it, I don't mind

Normally I wouldn't be so blunt, but even the mere suggestion that an attack caused by an item would be in tournament play is so ludicrous is merits the above response.

Wow! He must be foaming at the mouth! This calm, reasonable explination is a sure sign of mental imbalance.

...lol.

 

[thatsmybutta]

wow youre weird

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

wow youre weird

Good one champ

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

What do you think? Sorry but I don't see why you're asking the question when you already answered it yourself.



You hope that those stupid attacks are going to be part of competitive play? Why, because you can't compete for jack in the existing smash brothers games? Thank god your mentality won't be shared by those who will build the pro scene for brawl, if there even is one. Depends if they whor it out to the noobs of smash for the sole purpose of selling a lot of copies, or if they'll try to also cater to smash brothers players with real skill

Normally I wouldn't be so blunt, but even the mere suggestion that an attack caused by an item would be in tournament play is so ludicrous is merits the above response.

Jesus Christ dude,you don't need to be such an arse.His or your opinions on tournament playing have no reflection on how it will be played,so can the arguments stop?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

But the answer to his question was SO obvious. It was a dumb question to begin with, he knows items are never, ever used in competitive play. He knows that super attacks (from what we've seen in the trailer) are caused by grabbing an item. Logic leads you to the conclusion that no, special attacks won't be happening in real super smash brothers brawl matches, that is to say, matches where there are no items, and thus no special attacks.

Ask a stupid question, and get a pissed off answer, I say.

As for meteor master hoping super attacks would be allowed in proper brawl play (which they won't) I have one question, really : Why?

 

[TaikaAli]

I Might be wrong but i think theres been lot of discussion about these Super attacks.
So i see no reason to keep this going on? And you keep calling those attacks stypid all the time, i dont really see that way because some people (who dont go to tourneys) like to play with items, atleast some times, to make game more fun to them. So they might be "overpowered" so then dont use them in matches that actually means something. Or any matches if you dont just like them (or any items)

 

[thatsmybutta]

i wish i could ban dylan from my threads

 

[1048576]

I really don't get why everyone in this forum gets the impression I'm pissed off. I mostly feel sorry for the excessive ammount of nub smash mentality I see posted around here. But hey if telling me I have anger issues makes you feel better about yourself go for it, I don't mind



Wow! He must be foaming at the mouth! This calm, reasonable explination is a sure sign of mental imbalance.

...lol.

You don't have to post here if you don't want to. If you feel someone is mistaken there is a polite way to tell them so. You are an insecure noob is not polite, nor will it help anybody "de-noobify." Blatant sarcasm is a sign of anger, IMO. Anyway, I do not think that super moves will be in Brawl. Competitive tournaments like to minimize the effect of random events, so they get rid of anything that isn't character specific or necessary (items) in order to make the tournament a showcase of skill, and to attempt to ensure that the better player does actually win. I think that dylan would agree, but unfortunately he is incapable of forming an articulate response without resorting to flaming.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

^^^ I agree. Sometimes I wish I had the option to block posts from certain users...

Anyway, I've seen a few competitive SF3 videos and everyone is capable of doing a "Super" move, which appears to massacre anyone unfortunate enough to get hit by it. It seems to be the equivalent of Brawl's special move. If these are allowed in SF3 and other fighters, I don't see why it can't be a competitive option. If course, if the Smash community stays with traditional etiquette, then special moves will not be used in competitive play. Also, if it is not an option then they would basically have to be used. But I'm sure that the special moves will be an option.

 

[thatsmybutta]

i sure hope so. but then again nintendo isnt making brawl for the competitors. theyre trying to attract the majority. i wish everyone played smash competitively. life would be so much easier.

 

[xTOXNx]

Yeah first of all dylan stop being such an *******. It was a simple question.

For all we know that "pill" might only appear for a player who does something to meet the requirments. (Im thinking like a super-bar from street fighter although in brawl it wont be on the screen.)

 

[Eaode]

"Items are never ever allowed in tournaments"

Actually, Items started being banned after the east and west coast got into a heated debate about it. One of them always had tourny's with items on.

But, whatever man, ignorance is bliss. I guess you're in the *I just found out how the competitive scene works, so I'm gonna go around being an elitist ***** about it* stage.

----------

Anyway, It'd be cool to have super moves in a tournament or wherever. Super moves look ****in awesome. But then again it doesn't really matter because when you're playing with your friends you can do whatever you want.

 

[Red Exodus]

Heck no

They were made for show, I doubt they will be part of the game because the mechanic for them would change the pace of SSB dramatically.

Mario's move hits everyone on the screen so it's kinda normal, but Link's and Kirby's supersmash targets one person so what will happen if 3 other people are fighting? How would you choose who you want to use it on.

Now I wouldn't mind if there's supersmashes were smaller. Instead of Mario's move taking up the whole stage maybe he just does a barrage of fire balls or one big flowerthrower but his move the way they show it looks overpowered along with everyone other super smash.

P.S. Why is everyone on Dylan's case? The guy he was responding to wants the rules in competitive play to be changed for noobs, if I was on the tournament scene I'd probably react that way too.

Besides, this site is meant for pro or tournament smashers, not people that just play it without bothering to search for it's true depth. Yes I know I sound hypocritical, but I'm in a learning stage. I guess you could call this my 'transition'.

 

[the problem]

But the answer to his question was SO obvious. It was a dumb question to begin with, he knows items are never, ever used in competitive play. He knows that super attacks (from what we've seen in the trailer) are caused by grabbing an item. Logic leads you to the conclusion that no, special attacks won't be happening in real super smash brothers brawl matches, that is to say, matches where there are no items, and thus no special attacks.

Ask a stupid question, and get a pissed off answer, I say.

As for meteor master hoping super attacks would be allowed in proper brawl play (which they won't) I have one question, really : Why?

^ Agreed, for ocmpetitive play there are never items and since thats an item.....

 

[thatsmybutta]

lol you go girl

 

[The_Famous_SK]

wavedashing is exploits !

I think they'll fix it in Brawl. Does that mean there's gonna be no pro scene? Or that people who don't want it in Brawl are nubs?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

"Items are never ever allowed in tournaments"

Actually, Items started being banned after the east and west coast got into a heated debate about it. One of them always had tourny's with items on.

But, whatever man, ignorance is bliss. I guess you're in the *I just found out how the competitive scene works, so I'm gonna go around being an elitist ***** about it* stage.

----------

Anyway, It'd be cool to have super moves in a tournament or wherever. Super moves look ****in awesome. But then again it doesn't really matter because when you're playing with your friends you can do whatever you want.

Nah, I've been following the tournament scene for some time. I'm not being an elitist, playing with items is stupid, no one plays with items. Get over it, any tournament that had items on, was a stupid tournament.

 

[Wrath`]

I say yes to specials in tournys.as long as they are on very low.It could be a tide turning event,or a great way to win the tourny by finishing them with a special.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I say yes to specials in tournys.as long as they are on very low.It could be a tide turning event,or a great way to win the tourny by finishing them with a special.

See, for the last time.

THERE ARE NO ****ING ITEMS IN TOURNAMENTS

 

[Wrath`]

It's not really an item tho.It's your best attack,and i think you'd want your best attack to be possible righjt?

 

[BrTarolg]

what is wrong with supermoves?

in nearly every fighter game in existence, they have been a positive thing. for example, in SSF3, <which i would argue is a much harder game to get good at than smash> - super moves are one of the few things which help balance the game out.

without it, ken would simply lose in so many chun-li matchups due to a lack of range - it is due to the fact that he can unleash devastating cmobos into a suepr move, he can gain the advantage and pressure the chun li player into the corner.

for those of you ignorant of competetive street fighter play - trust me in the same way as smash - its alot harder and much more in depth than it looks. super moves are a positive addition to the game there. i mean, the word "mindgames" and "dashdancing" and "lag-cancelling" came from street fighter in the first place ! <how you can land an aerial straight into another attack in a similar way to how it is SHL in melee>

why cant it be a positive addition in smash aswell?

 

[zerosin]

Now, I'm not a professional, but from what I see, super moves used in 1v1 play seem more logical. Yes, it is considered an item, so it most likely will not be used in tournaments. But, if they were to be used, 1v1 seems like the best option in my mind. RedExodus made a good point:

Mario's move hits everyone on the screen so it's kinda normal, but Link's and Kirby's supersmash targets one person so what will happen if 3 other people are fighting? How would you choose who you want to use it on.

Again, I don't compete, but in my free time I would most likely use super moves for about a week b4 i got bored of 'em and just turned items off . We can only wait and see till the game comes out.
That's all; don't flame me Dylan.

 

[dizzy]

Supermoves aren't necessarily a bad thing, but like all other attacks, they have to be balanced--and by balanced, I don't mean that every character should have an equally broken supermove. A supermove should be used in conjunction with other attacks for maximum effectiveness. It should serve as a combo starter, as an alternative recovery move, or maybe as a "force field" that blocks off part of the stage... A supermove shouldn't just be an instantaneous full-screen explosion. If the supermoves are designed to offer significant (but not abusable) tactical advantages, great; if they only exist to look cool and cause obscene amounts of damage, I'd say the game is better off without them.

 

[Stryks]

Super moves are just moves, oly way more power that seems to be triggered with the smash emblem, its just like in any other fighting game, the guy triggers the attack, or u either try to dodge it, or get smacked with full force, when we c marios fireball inferno (thats what I call it), one can simply run behind him, and when hes unleashing the attack, charge a smash attack or a powerful B attack (like the falcon punch/ warlock punch, etc.) and send him fliying, having the supers wil only make u think of some way to use it effectively, while ur comboing him, or attacking him when he gets near the dge, I dont know how they work, just like any attack a player does, the super can as well change the outcome of a match, if u can master ur character, AND use the super effectively against oponents, then u are truly a pro...

 

[Zink]

I see problems with both points of view. Yes, items are currently banned in tourneys. BUT that is no gaurantee that they will stay banned in Brawl. Directors may well decide to start allowing the super move because of X reason we don't know because we don't know anything about them.
I don't think you can compare these to SF supers- those require bar buildups and can be comboed into. However, Smash's super looks like just an item.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

P.S. Why is everyone on Dylan's case? The guy he was responding to wants the rules in competitive play to be changed for noobs, if I was on the tournament scene I'd probably react that way too.

Hey thanks for being one of the first people to stick up for me. Everytime I make a post I get jumped on by countless noob jerks so thanks for the support, you give me some hope for these forums.

Now, I'm not a professional, but from what I see, super moves used in 1v1 play seem more logical. Yes, it is considered an item, so it most likely will not be used in tournaments. But, if they were to be used, 1v1 seems like the best option in my mind. RedExodus made a good point:

Again, I don't compete, but in my free time I would most likely use super moves for about a week b4 i got bored of 'em and just turned items off . We can only wait and see till the game comes out.
That's all; don't flame me Dylan.

Hey come on now I'm a reasonable guy, that post was intelligent and I commend you for it.

 

[zerosin]

Hey come on now I'm a reasonable guy, that post was intelligent and I commend you for it.

Why thank you.
To Zink:
I agree with you; we can deliberate on this issue forever if we choose, but we can't say what will happen till Brawl actually comes out.
Stryks makes a good point. The super move is another new move. This calls for some new strategies and clever use of mindgames to set opponents up. If you miss, you're screwed (e.g. getting behind Mario before he cascades the screen in fire and slamming him with a falcon punch).

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Super moves are just moves, oly way more power that seems to be triggered with the smash emblem, its just like in any other fighting game, the guy triggers the attack, or u either try to dodge it, or get smacked with full force, when we c marios fireball inferno (thats what I call it), one can simply run behind him, and when hes unleashing the attack, charge a smash attack or a powerful B attack (like the falcon punch/ warlock punch, etc.) and send him fliying, having the supers wil only make u think of some way to use it effectively, while ur comboing him, or attacking him when he gets near the dge, I dont know how they work, just like any attack a player does, the super can as well change the outcome of a match, if u can master ur character, AND use the super effectively against oponents, then u are truly a pro...

You make some good points about dodging the super attacks, and punishing the heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy lag that will surely ensue.

However super attacks are still ****ing dumb, and should never have been put into the game to begin with, super attacks are not what smash is about, that's why there are combo videos, in smash you create your OWN super attacks with creative improvised (or pre thought out) comboes executed beautifully and (hopefully) filmed so that you can show the nice people here at smashboards your combo vid :D

Well, I'm off to bed I've got a smash tournament to attend tomorrow, peace.

 

[Red Exodus]

Why thank you.

Stryks makes a good point. The super move is another new move. This calls for some new strategies and clever use of mindgames to set opponents up. If you miss, you're screwed (e.g. getting behind Mario before he cascades the screen in fire and slamming him with a falcon punch).

What if Mario is invicible during that super smash? He doesn't look vulnerable at all during that attack. It looked like the only way someone could dodge it would be to bail off the stage.

 

[wuthefwasthat]

yeah super attacks will be ********

no serious player can like them.

most items suck enough already. seriosuly... bomb dropping right on you? home run bat dropping right in front of the other guy?

PEACH PULLING OUT A BEAM SWORD/BOMB??

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[zerosin]

Well, we can't say for sure what will happen until the game is released. We can't be satisfied till then because we don't know how super moves truly work. Are people invincible when they use them? Can these moves actually be used strategically or are they absolute crap?

 

[wuthefwasthat]

hmm i suppose... its hard to see that they would be used strategically though.

i mean... imagine rest... with marth's f-smash hitbox...

not much strategy to using that =P

 

[Gravyguy101]

Now before Dylan_Tnga jumps all over me calling me a stupid noob jerk(see his other post)

I do play smash competitively, but im also realistic... one sec let me search MLG for Dylan_Tnga... hmmm... guess what im not on there either.

First off you have no Idea how super moves are going to be activated, yeah it might be an item, out of pure randomness, and i agree that will suck much like the hammer or baseball bat, but what if it only appears after you 150% dg, or after a particully long ownage via aerial combo. do you still disagree with that?

Saying items are stupid shows that you are completely closed minded to change, and reading your other post shows that as well.. Melee perfect? I guess I need to get my drugs elsewhere, cause im getting screwed if your really that high. Brawl will be competitive just like melee, remember the people that are making it probably played it more then you have, they know of the competitive side. Say the super moves are just an optional extension to finishing moves, I don't see that as being quote "****ing dumb" Anyone that has played a marvel vs capcom, knows what I'm talking about. Set them up, get 3 bars, then go for the instant kill thing -a-ma-giger. Well if Brawl is the same way IE get so much damage or combo points on your opponent and that little symbol will appear for your character only, I think that will be cool. would work that same in competive play cause you don't have to grab it. you can just kill them and get rid of it, or you can grab it and smite them.

I dunno, clearly Dylan_Tnga is extremely conservative on brawl, which is fine, I want most things to stay the same to. But a few changes to gameplay didn't hurt melee, so why wouldn't we trust the same team again. Brawl is going to be different face it, no matter how much you fight here, they are still going to slow it down and change the aerial system.(hit frames seem more like ssb64 IE marios Down B...)

 

[BrTarolg]

frankly, all dylan has managed to show is that he doesnt know much about melee in the first place, and is trying to act all pro and purist in brawl.

super attacks can be balanced too.

what makes you think they are going to do insane amounts of damage? yes in street fighter they do alot of damage, but then again so does a throw, or nearly any special move or standard combo.
in fact, if youre ken, doing an aerial to downtilt to special move, almost always does more damage than a super move alone.

thats why you do things like chain super moves into a combo - if youre lucky to hit an aerial <like a parried ground special> - then downtilt, juggle them into the air and then super on the last hit.

anyone who thinks melee is a balanced game is not a pro. youre lying to yourself that its balanced because youre so afraid of change.

if you call IC's wobble, or fox's shinespikes, or even just marths edgeguarding balanced, then youre completely out of your mind.

 

[LinkGadra]

Personally, I think supers fit very nicely in the spirit of Smash. There's been talk of combo vids acting as supers, which isn't accurate. Making your own combos is cool, but add in the ability to finish with an Omnislash? Pure hotness!

 

[Wrath`]

If they were in a tourny just put them on low or very low.

Super move should be in tournys