So how then do casuals and elitist interact?

[Xengri]

And knowing is half the battle

I agreed with everything you said.

I like you.
I edited in the exclamation mark to make it easier to get the reference but, you got it anyway.

High-5.

 

[Jack Kieser]

I'm a bit confused as of which group I should be classified as: Casual or Competitive? I mean--

-I like playing with items off (they get it the way of combos)

-I can perform most ATs, but the only ones that I'm comfortably using in tourneys are Jump-cancelled grabs, jump-cancelled Usmashes, and crouch-cancelled Dsmashes (I don't need L-cancelling because A) I can't short-hop worth **** and B) most of my air attacks are used in juggling and are used only when I launch my opponent up)

-I don't choose my main based on tiers, but rather the character I feel most comfortable and reliable with

-I go to tourneys as often as two times a month (I'm pretty young, and my parents don't like video games either way)

-I practice with Melee 1-5 hours a day

-Don't use ATs when playing with friends, but--

-Can combo-**** them either way, and--

-Place fairly high in tourneys, and can sometimes beat guys that are way more technical than me

kirbykid had a great thread here in gen. discussion on that very topic a while back; it was really well written and really insightful. I'll see if I can find if; if so, I'll link it for you.

EDIT: My bad; it was in Smash News, not Brawl Gen. Discussion. Here's the thread I was talking about, though. I'm pretty sure I saw another one like it a while back, too, but I can't say for certain.

 

[S0crat3s]

kirbykid had a great thread here in gen. discussion on that very topic a while back; it was really well written and really insightful. I'll see if I can find if; if so, I'll link it for you.

I think I posted there...

 

[AquaTech]

Xengri, I guess you should just ignore me. You could beat me anyway, I know that. I have a different opinion than you, deal with it. Something that made people better than me is now gone, so I'm happy. It doesn't matter whether I avoid you all or not, SAKURAI is the one who got rid of most of the advanced techs, so cry to him, not me.

 

[DonkeyPirate]

hmm, i dont think you can blame AT's for why people are better than you. if anything, you can blame AT's for why bowser can defeat your cap falcon.

 

[Jack Kieser]

hmm, i dont think you can blame AT's for why people are better than you. if anything, you can blame AT's for why bowser can defeat your cap falcon.

From the vids I've seen, we should probably be thanking Gimpyfish for that.

 

[orintemple]

Apparently people are getting competitive players and pro players mixed. Competitive players are those who go to tourneys, it has nothing to do with skill level. If you are the worst smasher in the world but go to tourneys you are still a competitive player. Pro are the ones who WIN the BIG tournaments.

You guys also seem to think a tourney is just a tourney. NO! A tourney that you host in you bsement with 20 people you know, even if it is with prizes is NOT the same as an MLG hosted tourney. A local tourney at Gamestop is NOT the same either. You are not going to be pro without beating pros, you may have won money at a local tourney, sure you are competitive, but you are far from pro.

Pros do ATs, get over it, you are never going to beat a real pro without Lcancelling. Everyone uses Wavedash as their example but that is really a terrible example, wavedashing isn't nearly as crucial to your game(as most characters) as some other things like Lcancelling or mastered knowledge of DI.

 

[Xengri]

Xengri, I guess you should just ignore me. You could beat me anyway, I know that. I have a different opinion than you, deal with it. Something that made people better than me is now gone, so I'm happy. It doesn't matter whether I avoid you all or not, SAKURAI is the one who got rid of most of the advanced techs, so cry to him, not me.

My friend, you completely miss interpreted the "tone" of my text. I'm not crying. If anything, I look forward to adapting to Brawl's Metagame.
Thing is, I just couldn't read you're misguided mindset and let it slide.
I pointed out to you what's wrong with what you're thinking and, so have others so, it's up to you to decide what to do.

Brawl's Metagame is starting to shape up (and that's with it's Japanese’s version only out. Just wait to see the rate of growth when it's released worldwide).

Ether you try to keep up or come to peace with people running you over on " a unleveled playing field".

But, I am going to take your advice and, leave you alone now. I’ve said enough for any sensible person to get understand my point.

 

[Linkster47]

In my opinion, this thread was compleatly pointless and was just waiting to turn into casual vs competitive nonsense after only a few posts. People stated ages ago that neither way is better and that the game was meant to be played how you want it to. There's really nothing else to add to my main statement, so I think the best idea would be for everyone to stop argueing about this topic and move on.

 

[Firebert]

When I play more casual players, I tend to go easier on them, just to be fair.

 

[jacer]

these debates are aweome.... ilove reading them... sooo funny.. hey chaosblade where did you find that style of pics in your sig

 

[E-Z-MONEY]

Are you high? I'm like the only established ******* competitive that comes to these boards.

Do you want a cookie?

Furthermore, just because casuals greatly outnumber competitives, doesn't mean the same holds true for users on this forum (considering before Brawl's inclusion on this forum, it was almost entirely tournament players).

But it is true now right? THere are more casuals than pros.

Yeah, THEY are pricks (as am I), but that doesn't change the fact that we are RIGHT for the most part. It seems that because I put some attitude into my posts, people ignore the content and just get indignant about me being an ***, which is stupid. Just because I am an ******* doesn't make my viewpoint automatically null and void; you have to ACTUALLY DEBATE WITH ME to prove I am wrong, which hardly anybody does.

Ugh. I thoight there was no right way to play the game. In addition is that noit what I'm doing. While I do respect unabashed *******s like myself, you don't get to be a prick and expect everyone to ignore it. Arguing with an ******* just isn't fun.

Also, noobs whining about glitches and items should also need to be kicked in the face/die in a fire.

Agreed.

We are outnumbered OUTSIDE THE FORUM. INSIDE THE FORUM IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE THE SAME. I already addressed this before.

The problem with this argument is that it is based purely on opinion and personal experience. I consider elitists pricks to be more annoying so they stick out in my mind. I see a **** load of scrubs but I don't mregister them as they are no threat. You could be right. I don't really care. What are we arguing about in the first place? I forgot.

Also, I also don't give a crap whether or not you randomly die. I care if I randomly die.

Good for you.

Also, if your friend was competitive, he either 1.) wouldn't play with you or 2.) would play with your rules. Seriously, competitives do play on crazy stages and items on occasion. We just prefer to play with competitive rules in order to better our skill in the game. If your friend just wanted to hang out he probably wouldn't mind doing crazy ****, and if he wanted to get better he'd play good people.

Obviously.

Can I get some evidence of this occurring, because I very much doubt it did? For the most part, competitives don't make posts like, "lol use Link's down throw, then up b after it," or claim you can break out of wobbling by "DI'ing out of a throw."

No they make posts like "I was good with captain Falcon in melee and I love his playstyle but I'm going to main Diddy in brawl because he is high tier." and "Turn all items off. It is obvious they ruin the game for everyone." Regardless I am getting bored of this generalizing. As far as I can tell we are arguing about which group is more heinously obnoxious. Opinions don't work well in debates.

I don't think I said scrubs, but if I did, I'll clarify.

Scrubs = Noobs = Whiny Know-Knothing Knowitalls

Newbs = Newbies = Someone inexperienced

Sorry to say, but you ARE all "scrubby," (as if to imply lack of skill, not mentality). You are newbs (not a negative turn, as everyone starts off with less proficiency, and gains it overtime).

Sure. Whynot. Just like you are all elitist in being . . . elite. Lucky *******s. Even your most annoying subgroup sounds good.

Sure, casual players have their own skill gap amongst themselves, but almost all seasoned competitive players will beat a casual. As I said before, it has occurred repeatedly throughout SWF's history when some noob talks **** and then gets a beat down from a competitive player. Sora Keyblade Master is the one that sticks out the most in my mind, but there are others.

Eh. Again with the stating of the obvious.

This isn't arrogance, it is based off of history. I would be happy to money match any casual with almost any ruleset if that would help (I know someone wants to say the lack of items is what caused the noob to lose).

Good for you.

Furthermore, randomness is not conducive to competitiveness within a certain range. Eliminating all randomness is ideal, but reality is not ideal, so we try and get as close as possible

Also, no one is stopping casual players from holding their own tournaments with items. But they still don't do it on the scale that we do, so it must not be that big of a deal to them.

Whatever.

It IS BAD...FOR COMPETITIVE PLAY. See my previous paragraph. I don't care how you like to play, what I'm saying is is that determining who has the most skill requires that the person winning wins based off of skill, and not luck.

Also, nice ad hominem argument. Circumvent my actual content by attacking my person. Touche, you are indeed a cunning debater.

Meh. I honestly find it more fun random but If it is the pros consensus then they can do whatever the hell they want.

Oooooh. Speking latin makes me wrong! It isn't a fallacy if it has other things. Seriously you guys are acting like the victims while acting infallible. I didn't call you stupid I called you a martyr with a god complex.

Not A casual, the countless casuals before you that have come, got wrecked, and gone.

If you would like to prove yourself, then do it, but as it stands, the record for competitives vs. casuals is staggeringly in our favor.

The record in argument or in play? In play is rather obvious but I'ma need you to prove that you win arguments here. In percentages of course.

Incorrect assumption. I hold the notion that most casuals are ******* when it comes to adequately discussing gameplay mechanics (in comparison to a competitive). HOWEVER, I don't just look at Join Date and Post Count and then flame them. I read their words, and then I either laugh, cry, or am filled with rage.

Just as I find pros are ******* when it comes to modesty and basic human decency when compared with casuals.

Everyone holds notions about groups of people. It depends on whether or not you use these notions to judge them before they have a chance to present who they are.

Sure why not.

Most of the time, I read a post, then look at the Join Date, and go, "Oh, THERE'S the problem," because newer members tend to be the most clueless (which is to be expected). However, they post like they are the bees knees; like they are an authority, while in fact, they are ******** and need to LURK MOAR.

Just like I look at egotistical pricks with old join dates and want them to tilt their nose back down to at most a 90 degree angel.

No one wants to legitimately argue my points, and instead rely on ad hominem and strawman arguments.

Oh please. Me using strawman arguments? Get. Over. Yourself. Say it with me now. While I know your own fragrance smells oh so delicious you need to get your nose out of your *** and remember that the same rules apply to everyone.

 

[Maben]

*Glances at another post of E-Z Money that is really long*

I guess this is how "casuals" react to "elitists" then?

E-Z you really don't seem to be making any real points...you talk about how opinions don't work in debates and then say stuff like "I honestly find it more fun random" which is simply your opinion. This whole thread is starting to just reek of failure...it seems to just loop around in circles with each page looking identical to the last.

 

[Yuna]

But it is true now right? THere are more casuals than pros.

Yes, and? There are more Casual players than Competitive players when it comes to any game. And your point is?

Just because a majority thinks something doesn't mean it's "right". Or was slavery and rampant racism "right" because the majority thought so way back in the South in America once upon a time?

I thoight there was no right way to play the game. In addition is that noit what I'm doing. While I do respect unabashed *******s like myself, you don't get to be a prick and expect everyone to ignore it. Arguing with an ******* just isn't fun.

There is no right way to play the game. There, is, however, a "right" way to play the game competitively. This "way" has been formed by the competitive community for the competitive community.

You're free to play it your way. But don't come here and tell us how to play it "our" way or that "our" way is wrong. After all, when was the last time one of "us" spontaneously told you "your" way is wrong?

The problem with this argument is that it is based purely on opinion and personal experience. I consider elitists pricks to be more annoying so they stick out in my mind. I see a **** load of scrubs but I don't mregister them as they are no threat. You could be right. I don't really care. What are we arguing about in the first place? I forgot.

Yeah, but these "elitist pricks" are few and far inbetween. When was the last time you saw one of them post something "pricky"?!

People seem to loooove to villify the Competitive Community, making us sound like a great number of us are elitist pricks and that they post often (especially in these parts of the boards), statements that are rampant lies.

No they make posts like "I was good with captain Falcon in melee and I love his playstyle but I'm going to main Diddy in brawl because he is high tier." and "Turn all items off. It is obvious they ruin the game for everyone." Regardless I am getting bored of this generalizing. As far as I can tell we are arguing about which group is more heinously obnoxious. Opinions don't work well in debates.

What's wrong with switching characters because their old ones suck? After all, they're not telling you who to play. Who are you to tell them they can't switch? Also, they do not randomly walk into boards or threads and say "Turn items off!". It is only in response to people saying things like "Items should be on! It's more fun!" or "You guys are playing the game wrong! Items should be on!" that people like me and MookieRah respond with "No, items will not be on in tournaments because...".

Who are these rare Elitist Pricks you've apparently encountered on a regular basis I've seen no trace of?!

Sure. Whynot. Just like you are all elitist in being . . . elite. Lucky *******s. Even your most annoying subgroup sounds good.

Hey, you know what, there's a subgroup of humans called "Rapists". I should treat all humans as rapists or at least constantly mention them as if most people alive are rapists! Never mind that only a small percentile of the human population are rapists!

Meh. I honestly find it more fun random but If it is the pros consensus then they can do whatever the hell they want.

Competitive gaming is not about "maximizing fun for everyone". How many times must I say this? For one thing, what's fun for you is not necessarily fun for me. I personally do not have fun when random things cost me matches.

The rules of competitive gaming are built to ensure maximum fairness, balance and concentration on skill-based victories. Got it?

The record in argument or in play? In play is rather obvious but I'ma need you to prove that you win arguments here. In percentages of course.

When someone wins an argument is subjective. Will the n00b idiot who knows nothing, will never know anything and won't ever learn or give up ever say "I've lost this argument" despite being out-witted and out-argued by a much smarter "foes"? Will it be considered a "win" if a large number of readers not involved agree with one side while disagreeing with the other?

Just as I find pros are ******* when it comes to modesty and basic human decency when compared with casuals.

Point out 10 such "pros" who aren't general *******s in general and I'll point out 100 who aren't. Generalization is bad, especially when you're wrong.

Just like I look at egotistical pricks with old join dates and want them to tilt their nose back down to at most a 90 degree angel.

Name 5.

Oh please. Me using strawman arguments? Get. Over. Yourself. Say it with me now. While I know your own fragrance smells oh so delicious you need to get your nose out of your *** and remember that the same rules apply to everyone.

Who are you and why should I not treat you as a troll after reading through all of this garbage?

 

[Buju.]

casual or competitive, it's just a game some people have fun with competition others with casual gameplay. You have to find what entertains you in a game, wether its going against others to prove your abilitys, or just having a fun custom match like all pokeballs on very high, it's what fits you the best.

 

[Sliq]

But it is true now right? THere are more casuals than pros.

In the world, yes; on smashboards, that is debateable.

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

I thought you might want to see this.

Ugh. I thoight there was no right way to play the game. In addition is that noit what I'm doing. While I do respect unabashed *******s like myself, you don't get to be a prick and expect everyone to ignore it. Arguing with an ******* just isn't fun.

It isn't about being right about how to play, it's about being right when you tell someone you can't DI out of a grab, explaining how stale moves works, or that spamming Link's Spin Attack is a bad idea. When it comes to tactics, approaches, and overall knowledge about the game, a casual can't compete (irony).

Don't misconstrue my argument.

The problem with this argument is that it is based purely on opinion and personal experience. I consider elitists pricks to be more annoying so they stick out in my mind. I see a **** load of scrubs but I don't mregister them as they are no threat. You could be right. I don't really care. What are we arguing about in the first place? I forgot.

The thing about us arrogant pricks is that we have knowledge and experience on our side.

Once again, some good ol' fashion ad hominem. He's mean on the internet, therefore his knowledge and experience is negligible! Hurray I win teh argument!

No they make posts like "I was good with captain Falcon in melee and I love his playstyle but I'm going to main Diddy in brawl because he is high tier." and "Turn all items off. It is obvious they ruin the game for everyone." Regardless I am getting bored of this generalizing. As far as I can tell we are arguing about which group is more heinously obnoxious. Opinions don't work well in debates.

I see you used quotes, but also did not provide sources, so either you pulled these out of your ***, or you flavored them to suit your personality.

Also, mine's not opinion.

3rd Paragraph, he explains how to DI out of wobbling (you can't DI out of grabs):

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3944518&postcount=59

You CAN DI out of the standard IC chaingrab, and this was explained to him by a knowledgeable player, but misunderstood the difference between the dair chain grab and wobbling, because he needs to lurk moar.

This guy doesn't understand that moves damage deteriorates over time and attributes it to luck. Also needs to lurk moar.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3946262&postcount=131

Some guy posts something that's been known for years instead of lurking moar.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143668

There were others, one about how some guy is the best with Jiggs but still needed to master resting, and about a bunch of ******** Link combos that don't work, but they have since been closed and have disappeared forever.

Sure. Whynot. Just like you are all elitist in being . . . elite. Lucky *******s. Even your most annoying subgroup sounds good.

Money match, 100$? No? I thought not. Once again, it isn't based off of opinion, it is based off of all the past matches between some cocky scrub and a competitive, and every time the scrub got decimated. Once again, prove yourself instead of crying about arrogance. Man, you should try reading my post and looking at the points I make instead of concentrating on how mean I am and using that as your argument (another ad hominem, YAY).

Furthermore, those definitions are right. I didn't just make them up, they have been around a LOOOOOONG time.

Eh. Again with the stating of the obvious.

Wait, so I'm arrogant to say a competitive will beat a casual, and then you agree with that? WTF is going on!?

Good for you.

Yeah, it would be good for me, because I would win them all, and in turn a lot of money.

Whatever.

********-one-word-response-to-a-legitimate-point.

Meh. I honestly find it more fun random but If it is the pros consensus then they can do whatever the hell they want.

Meh. I honestly find it more fun competitive but If it is the casuals consensus then they can do whatever the hell they want.

C WUT I DID THAR!?

Oooooh. Speking latin makes me wrong! It isn't a fallacy if it has other things. Seriously you guys are acting like the victims while acting infallible. I didn't call you stupid I called you a martyr with a god complex.

Ok, but those two traits don't have anything to do with the argument at hand, and are therefor off topic. Please stay on topic, instead of just insulting people.

At least I insult someone and include some content with my posts, content which gets ignored in order to call me a martyr with a god complex.

It is still ad hominem if your argument against mine is that I'm a martyr with a God complex, and it must be considering you don't address any of my points in this reply.

The record in argument or in play? In play is rather obvious but I'ma need you to prove that you win arguments here. In percentages of course.

In play, as in money matches. I'd be happy to money match any casual, and play with their ruleset (assuming it isn't super duper ********; I can deal with the normal level of ******** rules, but super duper is pushing it).

In arguments, I can't say I have lost, because no one takes my points and argues them, but instead just yells at me and calls me arrogant or ugly (using my sig). Seriously.

I can't say that I win either, because I'm basically arguing with a wall, and some guy over hears it and calls me fat. Basically, there never has been any debates in the Brawl boards.

Just as I find pros are ******* when it comes to modesty and basic human decency when compared with casuals.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143565

This guy joined THIS MONTH and is trying to give people advice. But yeah, casuals rule when it comes to modesty.

I can't count the number of times some noob is like, "I'm the greetest in teh wurld," got stomped, and then cried cheap.

Furthermore, I'm like one of three "pro"s that comes to these boards, but yes, 1 person is a good enough sample for your assertion. I assume you mean competitive, in which case I'd be more inclined to agree. The fact of the matter is, the best players are not on this boards (Hugs and Wife just started showing up recently, though they don't post as much as I do in here).



Yeah, you should definitely judge someone's decency as a human off of the internet. You do realize that there are videos of girls eating poop and ****ing animals on the internet, right? And you are going to complain about someone's behavior on a FORUM DEDICATED TO ONE SPECIFIC VIDEO GAME FRANCHISE!?

Sure why not.

Sure why not.

Just like I look at egotistical pricks with old join dates and want them to tilt their nose back down to at most a 90 degree angel.

Please lead me to the arrogant nose-looker-downers, because it is only me and Yuna that are doing any kind of flaming.

Compared to the 100's of Brawl noobs thinking they know more about competitive play (tournament play) than actual seasoned tournament players (regardless of game (Smash, Guitly Gear, Street Fighter, etc.)). The fact is the ratio of casual smash players to casual smash players/other game competitor is overwhelmingly on the side of the casual with no tournament experience in ANY game.

Oh please. Me using strawman arguments? Get. Over. Yourself. Say it with me now. While I know your own fragrance smells oh so delicious you need to get your nose out of your *** and remember that the same rules apply to everyone.

Your whole post, just now, is one huge ad hominem/strawman argument.

I'm doing it too, but at your whim I'll pull up 100's of posts to support my opinion, while you will not.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

I would like to point out for a complete *******... Sliq doesn't come off as one for some reason.

If you wanted a REAL elitist super failure not named Dylan_Tnga, look no further than 5150. Complete *** failure.

Unfortunately EZ MONEY is correct in one point in that arguing with *******s ain't fun. You realize how much faster someone (decent, not scrub stupid) resorts to flames when arguing with a failure like 5150 as opposed to somebody more knowledgeable like Yuna?

 

[Sliq]

I would like to point out for a complete *******... Sliq doesn't come off as one for some reason.

If you wanted a REAL elitist super failure not named Dylan_Tnga, look no further than 5150. Complete *** failure.

Unfortunately EZ MONEY is correct in one point in that arguing with *******s ain't fun. You realize how much faster someone (decent, not scrub stupid) resorts to flames when arguing with a failure like 5150 as opposed to somebody more knowledgeable like Yuna?

If that were true, no one would reply to any of my posts. And by reply, I mean yell at me as opposed to debate.

 

[MookieRah]

I like how, for no apparent reason, E-Z tries to bring up "I thought everyone should play how they wanted" as an argument against Sliq. It's really funny considering Sliq wasn't talking about how people should play not at tournaments, nor was their any way anyone should take that leap in logic, because he himself has said many times in this thread and others that people should play how they like with friendly matches.

The problem with Scrubs, and immature people in general, is that they often see things that aren't there. I'm a flippin mod, and I rarely see a competitive player say anything elitist. I'm actually beginning to think that a lot of the people claiming to be competitive and posting the most inane bull**** seemingly based on stereotypes is really a 4channer in disguise that is trying to perpetuate the stereotype. Also... calling people elitist for switching their characters... What? How is that being elitist? You don't even ****in know what elitist means... In fact, Scrubs are the most elitist pricks out there.

E-Z... how can you claim elitism from our side when you are advocating how wrong we are and are trying to stigmatize people who want to switch characters because they think differently than you do? That is some elitist bull**** right there. "Oh, he is basing his character choice on something I think is lame and the ideal person wouldn't do that." THAT is elitism. You are an elitist.

Also, there are a lot of newbie competitive players here, just because you are considered competitive it doesn't mean you should assume our entire group acts in such a manner. Secondly, you guys should look at the join dates of anyone who says stuff like that. If it's someone who claims to be competitive and making stereotypical responses and have only been around for less than a year, more than likely they are new.

 

[E-Z-MONEY]

If that were true, no one would reply to any of my posts. And by reply, I mean yell at me as opposed to debate.

Eh? Seriously. Are you kidding? I have never met someone with such an odd combination of victim, hero and ******* in their personalities. One ad hom does not invalidate my entire post just as being an asshat in general does not invalidate yours. If you don't want to be insulted don't be a ****. Let alone a self proclaimed one.

I will reply to the bigger post later.

 

[E-Z-MONEY]

I like how, for no apparent reason, E-Z tries to bring up "I thought everyone should play how they wanted" as an argument against Sliq. It's really funny considering Sliq wasn't talking about how people should play not at tournaments, nor was their any way anyone should take that leap in logic, because he himself has said many times in this thread and others that people should play how they like with friendly matches.

I am confused. We are talking about both in seperate places aren't we. Regardless I hold that points to tournies as well. You guys WANT to play without items and stage hazards and in a certain format. Sure a few of the tourney goers might dissagree about rules but most of them would agree right? If there was a tourney where casuals went and they wanted items then they should have items.

The problem with Scrubs, and immature people in general, is that they often see things that aren't there. I'm a flippin mod, and I rarely see a competitive player say anything elitist. I'm actually beginning to think that a lot of the people claiming to be competitive and posting the most inane bull**** seemingly based on stereotypes is really a 4channer in disguise that is trying to perpetuate the stereotype.

Wait how can you have not seen it but have seen it at the same time?

Also... calling people elitist for switching their characters... What? How is that being elitist? You don't even ****in know what elitist means... In fact, Scrubs are the most elitist pricks out there.

E-Z... how can you claim elitism from our side when you are advocating how wrong we are and are trying to stigmatize people who want to switch characters because they think differently than you do? That is some elitist bull**** right there. "Oh, he is basing his character choice on something I think is lame and the ideal person wouldn't do that." THAT is elitism. You are an elitist.

. . . agreed. I was out of line I suppose. I generally value enjoying the game more than winning and sometimes I forget that a lot of people find more joy in winning than I do. I was wrong.

Also, there are a lot of newbie competitive players here, just because you are considered competitive it doesn't mean you should assume our entire group acts in such a manner. Secondly, you guys should look at the join dates of anyone who says stuff like that. If it's someone who claims to be competitive and making stereotypical responses and have only been around for less than a year, more than likely they are new.

Rargh!! This argument has no point then!!!1! It sounds like you are saying that this should only be held to pros and not casuals who we can generalize all we want but I know that is not what you mean and so this argument is pointless as all hell.

Spoiler

Dis ***** is crazy

 

[E-Z-MONEY]

In the world, yes; on smashboards, that is debateable.

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

I thought you might want to see this.

Really. I have seen far more people say they are casual than pro. You have been here longer though so whatever.

It isn't about being right about how to play, it's about being right when you tell someone you can't DI out of a grab, explaining how stale moves works, or that spamming Link's Spin Attack is a bad idea. When it comes to tactics, approaches, and overall knowledge about the game, a casual can't compete (irony).

Don't misconstrue my argument.

The first one is right. If you can't DI then you can't. Factual and to the point. The person who said you could was either a scrub, heard wrong or doesn't know what DI or Wobbling is. However the second one is a bit unreasonable. If spamming the spin attack works against your opponent then go ahead. Telling other people to try it is a bit much but as long as it is just a suggestion and not "OMG this is teh AT!1!!one!1!!2!".

The thing about us arrogant pricks is that we have knowledge and experience on our side.

Once again, some good ol' fashion ad hominem. He's mean on the internet, therefore his knowledge and experience is negligible! Hurray I win teh argument!

That isn't what I said. His advice is fine his attitude isn't. Stop acting as if being an arrogant prick as a desirable trait. If you are a prick people will treat you as so. Deal.

I see you used quotes, but also did not provide sources, so either you pulled these out of your ***, or you flavored them to suit your personality.

I'm sorry I don't record every post I have ever read, every thread I have ever been in and anyone I have ever talked to.

Also, mine's not opinion.

3rd Paragraph, he explains how to DI out of wobbling (you can't DI out of grabs):

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3944518&postcount=59

You CAN DI out of the standard IC chaingrab, and this was explained to him by a knowledgeable player, but misunderstood the difference between the dair chain grab and wobbling, because he needs to lurk moar.

This guy doesn't understand that moves damage deteriorates over time and attributes it to luck. Also needs to lurk moar.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3946262&postcount=131

Some guy posts something that's been known for years instead of lurking moar.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143668

There were others, one about how some guy is the best with Jiggs but still needed to master resting, and about a bunch of ******** Link combos that don't work, but they have since been closed and have disappeared forever.

Scrubs. Go at them. I hate em as well.

Money match, 100$? No? I thought not. Once again, it isn't based off of opinion, it is based off of all the past matches between some cocky scrub and a competitive, and every time the scrub got decimated. Once again, prove yourself instead of crying about arrogance. Man, you should try reading my post and looking at the points I make instead of concentrating on how mean I am and using that as your argument (another ad hominem, YAY).

Where did I call you arrogant for saying you could beat a casual. This is almost unexceptionaly true. You are arrogant becasue well you are arrogant. It has nothing to do with that.

Furthermore, those definitions are right. I didn't just make them up, they have been around a LOOOOOONG time.

Fine.

Wait, so I'm arrogant to say a competitive will beat a casual, and then you agree with that? WTF is going on!?
Yeah, it would be good for me, because I would win them all, and in turn a lot of money.

I already said that you could do it a bunch of times.

********-one-word-response-to-a-legitimate-point.

Whatever.

Meh. I honestly find it more fun competitive but If it is the casuals consensus then they can do whatever the hell they want.

C WUT I DID THAR!?

Yes I did. I saw it clearly. Why it needed to be done however, isn't as apparent. I agree with what you said. It isn't even the opposite of what I said in a bad way. In fact you seem to agree with me perfectly. Weird.

Ok, but those two traits don't have anything to do with the argument at hand, and are therefor off topic. Please stay on topic, instead of just insulting people.

I'll try. However ad hom does not invalidate my post.

At least I insult someone and include some content with my posts, content which gets ignored in order to call me a martyr with a god complex.

Your content makes you sound like a martyr with a god complex. However if you feel I overlooked something with my ad hom then you may repost it so I can reply properly.

It is still ad hominem if your argument against mine is that I'm a martyr with a God complex, and it must be considering you don't address any of my points in this reply.

Fine instead of calling you a maryr I will say this. CALM THE HELL DOWN. This is just an argument on the internet. And as SERIOUS BUSINESS as it is you need to tone it down. As do I, I suppose.

In play, as in money matches. I'd be happy to money match any casual, and play with their ruleset (assuming it isn't super duper ********; I can deal with the normal level of ******** rules, but super duper is pushing it).

Again, good for you.

In arguments, I can't say I have lost, because no one takes my points and argues them, but instead just yells at me and calls me arrogant or ugly (using my sig). Seriously.

I can't say that I win either, because I'm basically arguing with a wall, and some guy over hears it and calls me fat. Basically, there never has been any debates in the Brawl boards.

I think I am running out of ways to say this. You see that thing over yourself? Get to it. You think arguing with you is better? Also ad hom. You spend entirely to much time focusing on my ad hom and to little on the rest of my post. I don't wee how I am ignoring you but god **** I wish you would stop whining about it.

1
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143565

This guy joined THIS MONTH and is trying to give people advice. But yeah, casuals rule when it comes to modesty.

I can't count the number of times some noob is like, "I'm the greetest in teh wurld," got stomped, and then cried cheap.

Furthermore, I'm like one of three "pro"s that comes to these boards, but yes, 1 person is a good enough sample for your assertion. I assume you mean competitive, in which case I'd be more inclined to agree. The fact of the matter is, the best players are not on this boards (Hugs and Wife just started showing up recently, though they don't post as much as I do in here).

Whatever. I hate scrubs. You are making a straw man. This isn't about scrubs being good. It is about . . . I think it is about whether or not tourney players are more excusable when they are asshats.

Yeah, you should definitely judge someone's decency as a human off of the internet. You do realize that there are videos of girls eating poop and ****ing animals on the internet, right? And you are going to complain about someone's behavior on a FORUM DEDICATED TO ONE SPECIFIC VIDEO GAME FRANCHISE!?

In some cases it is a better judge. What people do when they are anonymous shows their personality and if they are just faking being an ******* then they are just worse.

Sure why not.

Yay!

Please lead me to the arrogant nose-looker-downers, because it is only me and Yuna that are doing any kind of flaming.

Well there are two. but honestly I don't spend my time looking through an internet forum to be annoyed, just to win an argument.

Compared to the 100's of Brawl noobs thinking they know more about competitive play (tournament play) than actual seasoned tournament players (regardless of game (Smash, Guitly Gear, Street Fighter, etc.)). The fact is the ratio of casual smash players to casual smash players/other game competitor is overwhelmingly on the side of the casual with no tournament experience in ANY game.

No. ****. Sherlock.

Your whole post, just now, is one huge ad hominem/strawman argument.

I'm doing it too, but at your whim I'll pull up 100's of posts to support my opinion, while you will not.

If I have misrepresented anything or ignored anything then feel free to repost it to make it more obvious what you mean.

 

[Samochan]

You know that multiple posting in a row is not allowed on smashboards right? >_> Go read the rules again mister and then come back to complain more. <_<

 

[Thino]

ok. this turned into an argument about how arrogant Sliq is, this isnt going anywhere

 

[180OP]

answering the topic question: through sign language obviously. It is the clash of cultures.

topics like these are silly. stop with this casual/elitist, competitive or non **** and just talk about teh freaking game. concentrate on the game instead of these labels.

 

[E-Z-MONEY]

You know that multiple posting in a row is not allowed on smashboards right? >_> Go read the rules again mister and then come back to complain more. <_<

As silly as I find that rule, I thought somebody would have posted by then.

 

[S0crat3s]

answering the topic question: through sign language obviously. It is the clash of cultures.

topics like these are silly. stop with this casual/elitist, competitive or non **** and just talk about teh freaking game. concentrate on the game instead of these labels.

Humans always classify, it's unavoidable...:/

What is avoidable however, is arguing about which class is superior...Elitists because they could wipe the floor with casuals, or casuals because they do whatever the Hell they want and don't need to go to competitions for fun? "Tourney***" this, "Scrub" that, it's really annoying...

"Hay u dun playe w/ iytums ur a turney***"

"lulz no wavedashing? u r a scrub"

 

[Coselm]

Wow that essay was pretty funny.

It reminded me of when me and my friends were playing basketball and we kicked this kid out of the gym for slam dunking.

Or this other time we were playing baseball and we kicked a kid off the field for stealing bases.

Or this other time we were playing soccer and this kid used his head, so we shot him.

On a more serious level, if you are going to run a tournament, is it fair that you will try to kick someone out just because they are better than you?

 

[E-Z-MONEY]

Wow that essay was pretty funny.

It reminded me of when me and my friends were playing basketball and we kicked this kid out of the gym for slam dunking.

Or this other time we were playing baseball and we kicked a kid off the field for stealing bases.

Or this other time we were playing soccer and this kid used his head, so we shot him.

On a more serious level, if you are going to run a tournament, is it fair that you will try to kick someone out just because they are better than you?

I wouldn't really know but I would guess that you aren't allowed to participate in tournaments you are hosting so there isn't much of a point in doing that. However I think you can kick people out for any reason.

 

[Dark Sonic]

"Casual" and "Competative" are not meant to be taken as derogatory terms. The insultive terms for the extremes of these two groups are "n00b" and "elitist" respectively. Notice that "n00b" and "newb" are two different terms. The former is used to describe a scrub, who complains about rules or tactics, ect. The latter describes someone that is new to the competative scene, who is simply not very knowledgable of certain tactics or rules. This person may simply not know certain rules, or why certain tactics aren't good, ect, but is still trying to learn. I like newbs, I don't like n00bs.

Just thought I'd throw that out there (even though it's been said before). I get tired of people using "casual" and "competative" as insults. This misuse of terms is yet another reason that people misunderstand us so much and make these generalizations. Most competative players are nice and actually pretty humble. After getting beat at tournaments people realize that they really aren't that good. That's what happens to most competative players. They carry that humble mindset that they can always improve, because the one's who don't reach a mental peak and stop improving until their attitude changes.

I can't say too much about the casual mindset because...most of them don't post on SWF. Most casuals don't spend too much time on forums, and the one's who do visit mostly just lurk around and post once in a blue moon.

Both steryotypes are just plain wrong and are formed around a minority of people who make the entire group look bad.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

And don't forget that when they do post, it's usually met with variations on "Shut up/you don't know what you're talking about/SWF is a COMPETITIVE board, not a casual one", etc etc etc.

 

[Metalknux]

I have a dream that one day, every smash player will be judged by the content of his character, not by whether or not he uses items.

 

[E-Z-MONEY]

I have a dream that one day, every smash player will be judged by the content of his character, not by whether or not he uses items.

Unlikely. Both sides are far to stubborn.

 

[jellis186]

Ya I know I said Im done with this topic, but I always like to see how many people have read the question compared to how many people are just responding to peoples post?

 

[S0crat3s]

I go to tournaments. I play on a competitive level. I turn off items. I don't like random/moving stages. But, I can't short hop/wavedash for shet...Does this mean I'm a "scrub" and can't play on a competitive level?

 

[Sliq]

I go to tournaments. I play on a competitive level. I turn off items. I don't like random/moving stages. But, I can't short hop/wavedash for shet...Does this mean I'm a "scrub" and can't play on a competitive level?

No, it means you are a newb that can't play on a competitive level.

 

[Saor Gael]

Don't use the word elitist or pro. IT'S COMPETITIVE.

Also, competitive players have much more fun than "casual" players because "casuals" bind themselves to scrubby rules.

EDIT: If you don't see the fun in competitive play, then you obviously haven't delved into it far enough. In the end, the amount of fun you get for working towards getting better at the game is worth it.

Fun is a subjective term, so you can't really proclaim what others enjoy, you know?

People who quoted my post and made an immature response to it are casuals in denial.

I'm a casual; there's nothing wrong with it. I don't find competition for money to be enjoyable.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Hmph.

Now that I think about it, the only actual elitists that heckle people and look down on casual play were the ever popular Dylan Tnga and now 5150. Most people are largely misunderstood pros who either come off as arrogant thanks to either poor wording (in the eyes of the casuals) or "aggressive" personalities (like Yuna). Quite frankly yes, the casual are the ones who start all this crap--sometimes in the guise of elitists (look no further than 4chan)!

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Hmph.

Now that I think about it, the only actual elitists that heckle people and look down on casual play were the ever popular Dylan Tnga and now 5150. Most people are largely misunderstood pros who either come off as arrogant thanks to either poor wording (in the eyes of the casuals) or "aggressive" personalities (like Yuna). Quite frankly yes, the casual are the ones who start all this crap--sometimes in the guise of elitists (look no further than 4chan)!

QFT!

 

[Winston]

Okay, who gets more pissed when they lose? (In most cases) A pro basketball player in the playoffs, or a bunch of kids playing on the play ground? Now to say who has more fun is immeasurable. (Whoa, spelling..? Is that even a word...?)

I have to answer this, even though it's WAY old.

The comparison isn't accurate at all. You'd know this if you had experience with the tournament scene.

Some people who play in tournaments are jerks/have bad temperments. There are these people in every walk of life. They don't count for generalizations.

What I do know is that SSBM tournaments are basically the most fun and chill large gatherings I've ever seen. The community as a whole exercises excellent sportsmanship.

Most competitive players don't get pissed when they lose. Casual players get pissed at least as often, not when playing their friends, but when playing better players that they think they should be able to beat.

Many casual players also get pissed about advanced techniques ><. This may be another generalization, but so many people are vocal about this on these forums that I think it's fair.