Meta Smooth Lander and Heavy Gravity (SLHG)

[Aunt Jemima]

That's the problem, though. There is no time to experiment.

Once Nintendo patches out the current userland exploit, gaining access to SLAJ requires purchasing a 20~30$ device (dependant in where you live) and owning a physical copy of Smash 3DS. Going from previous patches, the current exploit will most likely be patched within the next three weeks. If we're to wait until we've finished proper testing, the window of accessibility will be incredibly short, thus stunting any potential growth of this mode. It's highly unlikely a new free exploit will be released once this one is patched, as basically everything regarding currently known and potential 3DS exploits was dropped at a conference in December. Nintendo has already patched out 1/2 of the exploits said there, along with implementing even more checks to ensure people can't get these hacks back (ie: you can no longer boot blacklisted games on older firmwares, can not boot games without proper updates, etc.)

 

[BlueFury]

Keith and some of what SAHunter stated is pretty much most of my thoughts and/or concerns:

The only thing I would add to this is were not sure of the future of this, right? I mean honestly before SLHG I thought I would have to just play Smash 4 the way it is "which isn't bad at all" but I wanted more from smash, I felt like I couldn't approach the way I wanted to, I couldn't pressure the opponent enough, etc. Then here comes "SLHG" and I was amazed at the overall play and been stuck since.

The point I'm making is I'm sure, like a lot of you, never even thought that this type of play was even possible, am I right? SLHG wasn't even a thing a little less than a year ago (and kinda still isn't to a degree) but look how far we come I mean we even had some pro people actually want to try this (GiMR, Mew2King, etc.)

I say try out different builds and test it with multiple people and see what can be done and can't. I would test with you all but I can't atm so I trust your judgment for the most part. You guys (Muro, Zadd, Hobbes, Reserved, SAHunter, Keith, SaturnFrost, the rest of the community and TRC) pushed this mode thus far keep going don't stop.

So be more open-minded you guys ok, Nintendo might patch the way to implement SLAJ to both systems but what if they don't? Nobody knows the future so don't think too much on that until it arrives then worry about it and make adjustments when necessary.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

the way to get SLAJ is by using a userland exploit on their current moneymaker which can later open up pirating (which it has in the past)

they're gonna patch it lol

 

[BlueFury]

the way to get SLAJ is by using a userland exploit on their current moneymaker which can later open up pirating (which it has in the past)

they're gonna patch it lol

lol well let's hope it doesn't xD

 

[Aunt Jemima]

i mean, we could stop all updates if we bomb NoJ

probably

 

[SaturnFrost]

I was testing with a Moon Launcher.

Hard Braker is... alright, nothing amazing. Certainly doesn't magically cause dash-dancing if that's what you were hoping for.

I was actually thinking a second smooth lander might be... interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT_3RI75YMg sorry for the late reply (been going ham on sFV ) ...its not melee level dash dance (looks like hes not that great at DD'ing tbh) but its a great improvement... I can only imagine it being a good thing if we tested it...

,If noone else wants to test Hard braker in place of moon launcher, is there a way i could get a version with that setup...perhaps through pm...to test for myself along with friends..Ive tried to edit the current build with the smash editors out there but the effects don't take place.

 

[SAHunterMech]

I'm going to make one set with 2 Smooth Landers, and one set with Hard Braker in just a moment here. Please let me know if it doesn't transfer to your Wii U.

I'd be happy with either at this point. Hard Braker probably does more overall, just because it's not going to suffer from double-stacking effects.

EDIT: If anyone wants to learn how to make transfer-legal badge setups, just PM me, or I could just post instructions somewhere.

EDIT 2: Here are the setups. I'm 90% sure I guessed the ranges right, but I don't have time to test right now. Also, Hard Braker has drastically different numbers from Smooth Lander, so Speed had to be a little higher with it.

 

[SaturnFrost]

so the 2nd set will be anchor,smooth,breaker?

I'm going to make one set with 2 Smooth Landers, and one set with Hard Braker in just a moment here. Please let me know if it doesn't transfer to your Wii U.

I'd be happy with either at this point. Hard Braker probably does more overall, just because it's not going to suffer from double-stacking effects.

EDIT: If anyone wants to learn how to make transfer-legal badge setups, just PM me, or I could just post instructions somewhere.

EDIT 2: Here are the setups. I'm 90% sure I guessed the ranges right, but I don't have time to test right now. Also, Hard Braker has drastically different numbers from Smooth Lander, so Speed had to be a little higher with it.

are these NA versions?...I tried them and they are corrupted if so

 

[SAHunterMech]

Yes, the second set is SL/AJ/HB, and I gotta say, I definitely prefer it, just because movement as a whole feels tighter.

I used the latest save file from Reserved, and just edited it. The save manager can fail for one of twovreasons:

1. A third file is in the save_data folder
2. The account_data file doesn't have a matching set of security bytes with the save_data file

 

[SaturnFrost]

Yes, the second set is SL/AJ/HB, and I gotta say, I definitely prefer it, just because movement as a whole feels tighter.

I used the latest save file from Reserved, and just edited it. The save manager can fail for one of twovreasons:

1. A third file is in the save_data folder
2. The account_data file doesn't have a matching set of security bytes with the save_data file

so you used the fresh version that Reserved has posted and modified the files from the savedata folder?

Edit: the manager works and says that the import was succesful during the process but when i boot the game up and check the customs the stat change gray circle is empty and when i choose a character it closes the games app.

Edit2: also ive been using method 1 (the quick way) from Reserved's guide...is that the problem?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

"when i choose a character it closes the games app"

The game is... crashing? wat

also save data isn't regional, almost every game retains the same save data across versions (ie: fire emblem: if save transfers to fire emblem fates)

 

[SaturnFrost]

yup all i do is exchange the 2 files from save data and do the 1st process and it takes me to homebrew.... Im doing the process correctly because i successfully reverted to the original slaj 1st try after the 3 times of trying to get the new versions to work.

'The account_data file doesn't have a matching set of security bytes with the save_data file' Im not sure what to do are say in response to this.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

oh, it takes you back to the homebrew channel?

make sure in saveDataManager > save_data you have NOTHING ELSE except for the save file you're currently injecting

also are you using a mac? apparently macs have a ton of problems with it and rarely work

 

[SaturnFrost]

nah im on pc...im using the savedata files Hunter sent so whatever is on there is what he sent. I'll give it another try.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Just tried to import the SLAJHB save file, and the same thing happened to me. Tried to go to check on the equipment and the game closed and went back to the home menu.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Interesting developments... I'm stuck at work for the next 6 hours or so, so I can't fix my links until then. Maybe we should start with a fresh, confirmed-functional save?

Also, yes, there is a security check between the system and account data files, but all you have to do to get around it is make sure the first 12 or so bytes are identical. The only way I know of for doing that is using a Hex Editor.

Anyway, if everyone is getting into the game successfully after copying the save, those bytes are likely not the issue. Can someone just extract their save or something to that effect?

...wait. Is the save file the same between old and new 3ds? Is that the problem?

 

[SaturnFrost]

perhaps a full package identical to how the original slaj was presented. that way everyone has the same confirmed working files that just need copypasta.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

"Also, yes, there is a security check between the system and account data files, but all you have to do to get around it is make sure the first 12 or so bytes are identical. The only way I know of for doing that is using a Hex Editor."

this only applies for digital copies, physical ones don't use this

also save files don't change between o3ds and n3ds, just payloads

 

[BlueFury]

I don't know why but glider seems interesting mostly because I never heard much about it really. Does it really have much of effect when combined with SL and AJ? Either way glad y'all s**t is worked out now

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

I don't know why but glider seems interesting mostly because I never heard much about it really. Does it really have much of effect when combined with SL and AJ? Either way glad y'all s**t is worked out now

We did try out Glider in testing. Basically all it increases is airspeed, which +speed does anyways. Glider made it so Roy could full hop and go the entire distance of Final Destination. It was pretty ridiculous, and a bit over the top when +speed gives the same benefits to a less degree. Unfortunately, it doesn't change momentum from run to jump like we thought.

 

[BlueFury]

We did try out Glider in testing. Basically all it increases is airspeed, which +speed does anyways. Glider made it so Roy could full hop and go the entire distance of Final Destination. It was pretty ridiculous, and a bit over the top when +speed gives the same benefits to a less degree. Unfortunately, it doesn't change momentum from run to jump like we thought.

oh ok yea that is pretty ridiculous if roy could full hop and do that, I was just wondering thanks for letting me know Art. Well yea seems like adjusting the speed to a sweet spot and figuring out what the third spot for the equip is all we need to worry about then cool.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Okay, so I checked those bytes, and they were indeed not the same between the account and save data files. I fixed that, and I did a sweep for the problematic Mac-only "ds_store" invisible file, because I am on Mac here. Hopefully it will work properly now. I also changed the files in my previous post.

 

[ZADD]

I'm gonna go ahead and agree with Aunt Jemima on no two SL's. I think that would actually increase the gap between slow and fast characters, causing character imbalance.

Hard Breaker is a minute effect that really only affects neutral game, it should do better than ML on all accounts I'd say. If we can choose an effect that expands on options while leaving stats unchanged, I say that's our best bet.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Okay, so I checked those bytes, and they were indeed not the same between the account and save data files. I fixed that, and I did a sweep for the problematic Mac-only "ds_store" invisible file, because I am on Mac here. Hopefully it will work properly now. I also changed the files in my previous post.

It still closes the game on me dude. Try to check equipment in custom, it shows a grey badge, click it, crashes.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Well, I'll post my own save then, it just has all of my janky custom special move slots, if you're fine with that. It also has everything unlocked, except for challenges.

This one's a hard braker set.

 

[SaturnFrost]

Well, I'll post my own save then, it just has all of my janky custom special move slots, if you're fine with that. It also has everything unlocked, except for challenges.

This one's a hard braker set.

nice that 1 confirmed works on 3ds....i have to test transfering it a little later

 

[SAHunterMech]

Should I even bother making a two smooth landers setup? Everyone seems pretty set on Hard Braker, including me. I think SLAJ controls better with Hard Braker for sure, and it's more of a benefit than another Smooth Lander.

 

[ZADD]

Have you tried transferring to a Wii U? Can you confirm that works?

 

[SAHunterMech]

Yes, and Yes. Playing it right now, actually.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

It works now, and everything is transferring over good.

Edit: We have speed set to +31, I'm doing some jump height testing to see the differences. So far the only notable difference is now Game & Watch can full hop to a BF platform, and double jump to the top platform where with +22 he couldn't. I'm looking into more characters

Edit 2: Link and Doctor Mario can both full hop to bf platform and double jump to top platform as well with +31

Edit 3: Charizard can now double jump and get to the top platform of Battlefield now! With +22 and +31 speed. I didn't even notice before and now I'm happy for him.

Edit 4: Even with +31 speed, both Ganon and Little Mac still can't full hop to a platform. The added run speed and air seed given to Ganon would be amazing for him though.

Edit 5: I'm wondering... could multiple badges of hard breaker be made with different speeds? Certain characters could really benefit with the added running speed, jump height, and aerial mobility, whereas some higher tier characters already have great speed and jumps.

 

[ZADD]

So far i like hard breaker, its a very subtle change that works well with the added speed.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Basically, each effect has an assigned integer. For positive effects, it's a negative integer that subtracts from the positive value of an equipment piece. For negative effects, it's a positive integer that reduces the negative value.

Hard Braker is -5, Smooth Lander is -33. Essentially, this means that the hard braker defense badge cannot go higher, because defense would be >0, and cannot go lower because speed would be >31. 31 is the lowest it can go.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Basically, each effect has an assigned integer. For positive effects, it's a negative integer that subtracts from the positive value of an equipment piece. For negative effects, it's a positive integer that reduces the negative value.

Hard Braker is -5, Smooth Lander is -33. Essentially, this means that the hard braker defense badge cannot go higher, because defense would be >0, and cannot go lower because speed would be >31. 31 is the lowest it can go.

Stats that are between -5 and +5 actually have no affect. Stats that go -6 and +6 onward have effects. Having the stats a little off of 0 shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Well, in that case, I could lower speed, although +30 seems to be pretty nice. I wonder how high is too high?

 

[ZADD]

31+ speed is not too different from 22+ speed, pivots seem the same really.

Shulk with Jump can only clear half of FD with 31 speed, thats not too bad. Jiggs got a slight boost with the combination of jumps and horizontal speed, she may actually be pretty viable now!

 

[Respect38]

Weren't you guys going to create your own thread for this?

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Okay, I was wrong about the +5/-5 thing, they are counted in the game my Bad.

After playing some games, I can say that I believe the speed boost is way too high with +31. Kirby now runs as fast as Vanilla Roy, which is pretty crazy. If we could somehow get a low number on attack and defense, and speed down to +20/+22 levels with hard breaker then I say we should go for it. If not, I would vouch for a generic badge to adjust the speed back down.

 

[SAHunterMech]

What's that comparison like at 22 Speed?

 

[ZADD]

By the way, I'm pretty positive that +speed affects the Floatiness of floaties, by making them fall slower.

I tested Jiggs on +31 and she was significantly floatier in that build, compared to +22 speed.
Palutena gets pretty messed up too.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

+speed also increases a characters fall speed too. Which also means we'll have even more trouble killing without moon launcher. I really like the added run speed and mobility, but we don't wanna go overboard.