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SMASHPOCALYPSE:: SPOC IX in February? Link to SPOC VIII results in OP

teh_spamerer

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
4,067
Location
Good luck Mario
Since when is ignoring the other side of the argument something to admire or be proud of? Pocky is 100% clear on his arguments and actually provokes some god**** thought about the game, stop sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la la" and actually l2read plz.
Apparently you're EXTREMELY good at sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la la" or you would have read this

stage strike rule is godly for Pocky's reasoning. Spam is an idiot for ignoring the best debater on smashboards in a debate.
pocky has ignored me and others numerous times in the past while using horrendous logic and trolling the entire time. I am not wasting my time with him.

EDIT: Best example of this: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5403502&postcount=1391
[/quote]

If you're too lazy to click it, he ignores SIX people and I call him out on that. Prior to that I posted, "why is it that you never ever directly respond to people's points and just keep harping on your same points even when counterarguments are given?" because that's all he was doing. He then has the audacity to reply with "His argument is that wobbling is much more powerful than the drillshine; I don't see how I ignored that at all." I OBVIOUSLY said "people's points" I did not say ONE SINGLE INDIVIDUAL. No intelligent human being could make the mistake that I was referring to a single person. So he obviously is either

A) trolling(highly likely since he ignored anyone who brought up points he couldn't refute)
B) NOT intelligent(also possible)

Given the capacity to do so, I'd have pockyD tied to a chair and abandoned to Inui.[/color]
 

JFox

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 25, 2005
Messages
5,310
Location
Under a dark swarm
JFox please don't spam my thread.

is this a joke? look at the non-sense thats goin on in here, and my making an attempt at peace was looked at as spam while nothing was said to dumb and dumber? they are literally arguing right now about whether or not pockyD responds to or ignores arguments.
 

R3N0

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
1,899
can someone please (in the next post please) sum up whats the argument thats been going on? for what rule without bias?


i just wanna know whats going on without reading pages n pages of stuff lol.
PLEASE =D?!
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
is this a joke? look at the non-sense thats goin on in here, and my making an attempt at peace was looked at as spam while nothing was said to dumb and dumber? they are literally arguing right now about whether or not pockyD responds to or ignores arguments.
JFox 2nd warning.

can someone please (in the next post please) sum up whats the argument thats been going on? for what rule without bias?


i just wanna know whats going on without reading pages n pages of stuff lol.
PLEASE =D?!
the rules in question are

hat's rule: no cp stages allowed for the 3rd match of the set. this makes it so that if a peach/jiggs wins r1 they don't autowin the set by cping brinstar or mute.

scar's rule: no cp stages ever. scar hates cp stages even tho CF is good on them.

stage strike rule: having each player alternate bans until only 1 stage is left.

reno + scar

scar bans fountain
reno bans fd
scar bans battlefield
reno bans yoshis
scar bans dl64

match 1 is played on yoshi's
 

R3N0

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
1,899
JFox 2nd warning.


the rules in question are

hat's rule: no cp stages allowed for the 3rd match of the set. this makes it so that if a peach/jiggs wins r1 they don't autowin the set by cping brinstar or mute.

scar's rule: no cp stages ever. scar hates cp stages even tho CF is good on them.

stage strike rule: having each player alternate bans until only 1 stage is left.

reno + scar

scar bans fountain
reno bans fd
scar bans battlefield
reno bans yoshis
scar bans dl64

match 1 is played on yoshi's
Stage Strike Rule is awesome! (Match one is played on pokemon and I wouldn't ever ban yoshi's don't lie)

Scar's rule: NO CP stages ever. haha I don't know abou all THAT

but hat's rule is pretty awesome. I TOTALLY AGREE ! In conjunction with the stage strike rule it should work out pretty well.


Figure...

Match I : They use the stage strike rule. Down to one neutral stage to play on.
Match II: Loser CP's stage, standard rules apply.
IF THERE IS A MATCH III: go back to Stage strike rule on neutrals only (NO DSR)

I think that's kinda ok.

IMO~~ what do you guys think?
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
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San Francisco, CA
well i just think that spam's meager reading comprehension skills are holding him back

i mean he certainly tries hard, but he doesn't have a great grasp of basic argument structure
 

R3N0

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
1,899


Yeah but then the follow strategy is good AND super gay: Sandbag R1 so you learn their style, take them to a supposedly unwinnable stage R2, then fight them with all your knowledge of their style R3.
you know their style for one neutral.. if they decide to ban the neutral they won on. or anything else like that.

or if your counter pick on a "seemingly" impossible win stage for them backfires. OR they have a secondary. There are so many variables you can't really manipulate it as easily as it seems you have stated it.



also ...

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6694359&postcount=10199
 

Rain(ame)

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
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I'll take a potato chip....and eat it!!!
First let me say...that by going into a technicality...you can never TRULY define the word "fair" in video games. It's just like the law...someone is going to find a loophole to out do what the other has done. So let's throw this being overly technical on the word "fair" out the window. I'm going to use the word "even" which is in a GENERAL sense. Just so you know, xD.

Also, Reno, you suck, xD. Go read it like I did, =p.


Okay...I hate to say this Scar, but what VaNz said about the space animals is right. You can't say that Peach/Jiggs get an auto-win if they win R1. Mainly because Spacies can do the same thing. Characters like Peach/Jiggs have one requirement...They HAVE to win the first round. (That is talking by your argument.)

However, we could also have the following: Say I lose round one to Inui. I cp Mute city...I feel even if it came down to a peach ditto, I should be fine. Suddenly, as the screen is loading I think back to something. Given Inui's nature, he does EXTREMELY well on gay stages. He uses Sheik and ***** me on Mute City. CP stages are good for either character. It's also player specific, too:

Ultima Scout feels he does well with Falco on Mute City (I beg to differ, lol. Hi Ultima Scout *waves*). If he had planned on going Falco for the set, that doesn't mean he'd get ***** on that stage as a CP. Alex Triad does well on Mute City with Samus. (I guess that's not supposed to happen?) I'm using Mute City as an example since it tends to be a CP that is quite complained about in general.


Now in reference to that rule of the banning stages back and forth...well I feel that it does take a bit of the "fairness" away from both sides. When you do that, yes...it does give each player a bit more planning power for their situation from the start. However, I feel it takes away a bit more of the "even" grounds that we have with the random for the first part. If, you both know in fact the character that your opponent is starting off with, you're given the opportunity to tip the scales.

We go like this: Player A ***** on 3 of these stages and sucks on the rest. Player B sucks on 3 of these stages, ***** on one, and is average on the rest. (let's say for argument's sake that the neutral stages are placed evenly distributed at this point. ) Now with this rule...there's a high probability that player B is going to be stuck on a stage he possibly sucks on, or might be evenly traded with. We'll say that the one stage that Player B ***** on, is a stage that Player A sucks on. The chances of player B getting that stage is unlikely bv far. It's going to be ZERO, to be honest. As a matter of fact, the chances of player A getting his **** stage is guaranteed. Going random on the first...leaves that option wide open.

To Hat's rule...I don't like it. No offense to Hat, but I think it's a bad rule. It's meant to give that player that won round 1, their shot...assuming they lost the second round. Which, by the way, doesn't always happen.
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
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Messages
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San Francisco, CA
people say something like 'cheeseburgers are good', then spam generally just "proves" something tangential and barely related, like "tomatoes are bad" and assumes he has addressed the original issue
 

Eggm

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
5,178
Location
Neptune, NJ
Stage Strike Rule is awesome! (Match one is played on pokemon and I wouldn't ever ban yoshi's don't lie)

Scar's rule: NO CP stages ever. haha I don't know abou all THAT

but hat's rule is pretty awesome. I TOTALLY AGREE ! In conjunction with the stage strike rule it should work out pretty well.


Figure...

Match I : They use the stage strike rule. Down to one neutral stage to play on.
Match II: Loser CP's stage, standard rules apply.
IF THERE IS A MATCH III: go back to Stage strike rule on neutrals only (NO DSR)

I think that's kinda ok.

IMO~~ what do you guys think?
This is perfect. :p

Edit : Scar's post to jfox was one of the funniest things i've read from him in a long time.
 

Pakman

WWMD
BRoomer
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Messages
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Phoenix Foundation
To Hat's rule - No one should ever be punished for losing round 1. Even if Peach and Jiggs have a good counter pick, if you are the better player you should win round 1 and 3 on your counterpicks. If Peach and Jiggs win r1 they DESERVE the right to pick whatever counterpick they want in round 3.

To Stage Striking Rule - Although I can't really argue the legitimacy of the rule, I feel that its implementation would discourage people who play lower tier characters. Hell it discourages me to play Luigi. I'd like to hear DJNintendo's view on the rule.
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
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Philadelphia
i really dont see how maining a low tier character really makes it that much worse. your saying your only good on like one stage, being FD in the situation I guess? does the stage really sway your matchups THAT much over like stadium or dl64?
 

Pakman

WWMD
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i really dont see how maining a low tier character really makes it that much worse. your saying your only good on like one stage, being FD in the situation I guess? does the stage really sway your matchups THAT much over like stadium or dl64?
Short answer: YES. They make a big difference. Granted it isn't like I am helpless on certain stages, but in many matchups it sways from 40% in my favor to 60% in my favor depending on stage. That is very significant.

I don't want people to misunderstand me. All I am trying to argue is that people have more of an incentive to play lower tier characters on a random neutral than a stage strike one.
 

Keitaro

Banned via Administration
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
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Piscataway, NJ


These debates are almost as fun to read as Inui vs Eazy in Brawl threads.

Nothing beats Inui's logic, lol!!

I'm against Wobbling and am amazed @ Umbreon's post comparison of it to M2K comboing Foxes on FD.
 

Mogwai

Smash Gizmo
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Sep 30, 2006
Messages
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I want to expect better of you, but I know not to


Apparently you're EXTREMELY good at sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la la" or you would have read this
um, no, I clicked it and remember the whole thing.

so let's see, you ignore pocky who succinctly replied to this "proof" that he just ignores people with contradictory opinions in his very next post, he said this:

Or it's more likely that you're just being an idiot. I'm not "addressing" any of those posts because I DON'T DISAGREE with them; I only disagree with the conclusion. It's a powerful tactic, yes. It's easy to do, yes. It can be done on any character, yes. It can be done on any stage, no, but it's not relevant. I don't get how this is so hard for you to understand, but those don't relate to the case I'm making.
which is the whole point of why there is literally no point in arguing with you ever. i was going to use some sort of humorous hypothetical situation here, but let's instead resurrect that ******** argument about wobbling...

Pocky was saying that banning wobbling was arbitrary (lol, I can already see this thread going into the toilet... :p). If we ban a technique for being "too powerful," the term "too powerful" needs to be defined VERY VERY clearly so that we can hold other techniques to the same standard when questioning what should be banned and what is just really powerful instead of "too powerful." If instead the argument is about whether wobbling is too easy, again, the real question is what is "too easy" and what is just really easy. You need to be clear and make distinctions when you are banning things based on such hazy terms as "too powerful" or "too easy." They're not bad reasons to ban, but if you're going to use them, then you need it be based on more than a feeling, or their will be questions raised about other similarly easy or powerful techniques.

The reason that Pocky didn't respond to your posts is that they were true, but irrelevant. Wobbling is certainly powerful, and easily sustained, but if you're not going to bother to define where the line of what's bannable and what's not is, acknowledging that a technique is easy or powerful is not contrary to the opinion that it should remain legal. He was very clear about this many times and all people could keep saying was, "LOL NO, U R GAY, WOBBLING SHOULD BE BANNED CAUSE IT KILLS ME!" Stop with the petty *****ing, draw a line in the sand and get the community to stand behind it if you want to ban it. Then we can hold all techniques up to that line to decide if they should banned.

This is perfect. :p

Edit : Scar's post to jfox was one of the funniest things i've read from him in a long time.
**** NO. SERIOUSLY PEOPLE, I'VE MET YOU, YOU'RE NOT THAT STUPID, HOW CAN YOU STAND BEHIND THE HAT RULE? IF ONE PLAYER HAS 15 OPTIONS FOR WHERE TO COUNTERPICK AND THE OTHER ONLY HAS 6 HOW THE **** IS THIS FAIR AT ALL!?
 

R3N0

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
1,899
I retract my statement, hat rule is not so good in combination with the stage strike rule.

Stage strike rule
there are only 6 neutral stages.
I don't prefer to give the advantage to the person that immediately says "what stage you strike first"
And then go on from there.



---- Keep things they are originally. They've worked for so long. If it ain't broke dont fix it.
It's like penalizing the winner for winning. It doesn't make sense.
 

Alukard

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
6,446
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Bronx
I retract my statement, hat rule is not so good in combination with the stage strike rule.

Stage strike rule
there are only 6 neutral stages.
I don't prefer to give the advantage to the person that immediately says "what stage you strike first"
And then go on from there.



---- Keep things they are originally. They've worked for so long. If it ain't broke dont fix it.
It's like penalizing the winner for winning. It doesn't make sense.
see this is why i'm not changing anything ... so it wont create confusion ... also make **** harder then it is... play the game ... u been playing ... no johns


B!TCHES

=D

also ... i've hated pockyD for a while

yes hate ... just from reading his posts ... and him trolling for no reason ... i swear u wack off to peoples anger
 

Pakman

WWMD
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PockyD is actually a really cool guy. He is just a relentless debater. He is the first guy to tell people they are being stupid and does so with no tact. Every group needs a guy like that.
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
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Messages
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Philadelphia
I actually normally hate Pocky with his trolling, but I gotta say that I love his debating skills in some of these conversations.

I retract my statement, hat rule is not so good in combination with the stage strike rule.

Stage strike rule
there are only 6 neutral stages.
I don't prefer to give the advantage to the person that immediately says "what stage you strike first"
And then go on from there.



---- Keep things they are originally. They've worked for so long. If it ain't broke dont fix it.
It's like penalizing the winner for winning. It doesn't make sense.
You can only use stage strike with an odd number of neutrals -_-
Thats why it's being debated that either DK64 could be added to neutrals or one could be taken away like Stadium or FoD (lol eggm)

this way both players get the same number of bans, and theres barely an advantage to going first or second. i liked eggms method of whoever plays the lower tier character goes second lol.

see this is why i'm not changing anything ... so it wont create confusion ... also make **** harder then it is... play the game ... u been playing ... no johns
sounds like the whole if it aint broke dont fix it argument, but as that was already brought up, its not broke per say, but if a better method has been found, then why not consider using it? its not confusing at all. people are already familiar with the rule. every brawl tourney uses it now. we were hesitant at first to use it, then ppl accepted and realize how awesome it works.

perhaps it will breathe a lil bit of fresh life into the game. after all playing the game we've been playing is the reason why some people are trying brawl or other fighting games, melees been out for like 7 years. the game is not dead however, and we should continue to evolve it, and when new improvements to rulesets have been found that make sense, it would be a good idea to try them out.

most of the argument in this thread has been full of john john johns
 

Pakman

WWMD
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I actually normally hate Pocky with his trolling, but I gotta say that I love his debating skills in some of these conversations.



You can only use stage strike with an odd number of neutrals -_-
Thats why it's being debated that either DK64 could be added to neutrals or one could be taken away like Stadium or FoD (lol eggm)

this way both players get the same number of bans, and theres barely an advantage to going first or second. i liked eggms method of whoever plays the lower tier character goes second lol.



sounds like the whole if it aint broke dont fix it argument, but as that was already brought up, its not broke per say, but if a better method has been found, then why not consider using it? its not confusing at all. people are already familiar with the rule. every brawl tourney uses it now. we were hesitant at first to use it, then ppl accepted and realize how awesome it works.

perhaps it will breathe a lil bit of fresh life into the game. after all playing the game we've been playing is the reason why some people are trying brawl or other fighting games, melees been out for like 7 years. the game is not dead however, and we should continue to evolve it, and when new improvements to rulesets have been found that make sense, it would be a good idea to try them out.

most of the argument in this thread has been full of john john johns
When was the last time you went to a Melee tournament?
 

Legendaryhero

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
440
Location
Freehold, NJ
I'm back baby... hero will officially begin training melee again sometime this semester and i will try to make this tourny if not to play just to annoy jfox while he plays
 

g-regulate

Smash Hero
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7,568
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ashburn, VA
you know whats awesome? im still better than all of you at melee rofl. step it up plz.

*waits for massive debate with long paragraph posts.*
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
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Messages
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When was the last time you went to a Melee tournament?
November 1st - Alukard's No Johns Biweeklys

And I'm going to one tomorrow, so a tad over 3 months. That doesn't change anything I said though in this debate. It doesn't make me any less qualified. Good rebuttal.
 

Pakman

WWMD
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November 1st - Alukard's No Johns Biweeklys

And I'm going to one tomorrow, so a tad over 3 months. That doesn't change anything I said though in this debate. It doesn't make me any less qualified. Good rebuttal.
Actually, it does make you less qualified. The people who have been going to Melee tournaments for the past three months are three months more qualified than you at discussing the current scene.

You can't really talk about "breathing fresh air" into a game that you have not been a part of for a decent amount of time. PC's return has breathed some fresh air into the scene. The videos I posted have been getting a huge response. I really don't think a rule change for a game that has had a mostly stagnant rule set for years is going to do anything for the community.
 

DJ Nintendo

Smash Champion
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Nov 4, 2005
Messages
2,609
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Bronx, NY
I hate these stupid a$$ arguments about changing the rules and sh*t like that. I've been maining Bowser ever since the beginning and I don't complain about the rules. I'm already at a huge disadvantage since I main one of the worst characters. Although I get by and **** since I'm the best in the world with him.

If someone counterpicks a gay stage against me that Bowser sucks on, I'll just pick one of my many (like 10) secondaries. If I lose, I lose. Plain & simple. Ya n*ggas really need to stop b*tching and practice some other characters. It's just like Alukard & Pakman been saying, leave the rules the way they were since the beginning and that's it. It's not going to do anything for the community.
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
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San Francisco, CA
Well sure, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I agree that the traditional way works fine, and that getting everyone to learn the new system is more of a chore than it seems on the surface, largely because people are idiots.

I only really brought it up this time because people were already discussing rules changes... if you're going to change the rules anyway, may as well change it to something even better :)
tttttttttt
 

Pakman

WWMD
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Messages
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Phoenix Foundation
things have been changed before. remember when rainbow cruise used to be neutral?
I really don't think a rule change for a game that has had a mostly stagnant rule set for years is going to do anything for the community.
That bold word in there is pretty good word. And Rainbow Cruise has not been neutral since I started playing competitively. The only thing that has really changed is rulings on wobbling.

tttttttttt
There are 10 t's there.
 

Eggm

Smash Hero
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Aug 29, 2006
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