Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pakky]

So the ballad was used for Ultimate, huh?...

Quick! How many votes did Ashley get!

She's a Mii Costume, most likely she's in.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Frankly if somebody boycotted Smash Ultimate, it would mean only a few things:

1) They aren't a true Smash fan
2) They're probably going to miss out on the character they voted for
3) They're entitled and lame

No, it's not "cool". It's dumb. You don't want to play this game because you misled yourself? Great. Go hang out with the stubborn and annoying Waluigi trolls who keep posting offensive memes and tagging Sakurai on Twitter. That's garbage that makes the community look bad.

Once again, I DO think it's dumb that they misled with Bayonetta. They shouldn't have done the whole thing with the so called "ranking" they mentioned. However, some initial reactions are flat out stupid.

 

[KMDP]

Keep in mind, I don't think think we should go full on "Ultimate's newcomers will all be from the Ballot". Especially since Bomberman and Krystal, two characters who had significant support, are ATs. My running theory on those two is that the roster was ironed out and they weren't on it, and so it was decidd to make them summons to get them in the game somehow and at least throw a bone to their fans.

The thing about Bomberman is that, if you look solely at his base games, his moveset is very, very shallow. He walks around and drops bombs that explode in a + Shape, sometimes he kicks them to move them. Not very interesting, but makes for a great Assist Trophy.

Krystal is tougher, since she could pull almost exclusively from Fox's moves in Star Fox Adventures and have a pretty complete moveset. Maybe Sakurai decided three Star Fox characters were enough or something (disregarding that Krystal would be unique compared to the other three, he's decided against adding characters for this reason before, see Wario in Melee and his misgivings about Corrin in Smash 4). Like it or not, Star Fox isn't that big anymore.

 

[Deleted member]

Then they can boycott to their heart's content. The rest of us will enjoy the game without them.

I will totally enjoy the game. I got a fresh new clean colorful Switch just because of Ultimate. The previous one is damage and... never used.
I will not boycott, and I will enjoy Ultimate.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Well if the ballot was actually used for Ultimate, how many potential new characters didn't get votes from participants that were under the assumption that characters already in Smash 4 as Assist Trophies or as part of someone's Final Smash were ineligible?

That's such a specific question that I don't think there's a decent way to answer it, but I'd say a... decent amount? Again, there really isn't a way to quantify that sort of thing properly.

 

[Slavic]

So I voted a few times on the ballot and, uh...

I have no recollection of who I voted for

 

[papagenos]

I honestly dont think people will be THAT angry about it.

I was pretty salty over smash 4's final DLC but with Ultimate in the works it just seems clear what happened with the ballot, it was never really for smash 4... though they should have been upfront about Bayonetta and Corrins reasons for being included, the ruse was to keep Ultimate a secret. ultimately. heh.

 

[cmbsfm]

On the Waluigi thing, wasn’t it only two morons sending Sakurai that dumb ****? Every time it’s brought up, I only see pictures of the hitler and 9/11 thing. Is this just overblown?

 

[SquashiniKun]

OK, i've calmed down now, sorry about going all "Despair Mode" on you guys.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I honestly still have doubts about it being "rigged" in so much as a bunch of us in the community ended up vastly overrating themselves; because, like it or not, Smash speculation in the Ballot period kind of became a huge echo chamber. We all got pissy when Corrin and Bayo were revealed because they were in one case from a franchise a lot of people were already decrying as "overrepped", while the other wasn't who we expected to be the "winner" of the Smash Ballot.

But the Ballot was never just about Smash 4. It was always about future games, that's literally what they said (at least on the Japanese website). Yeah, we didn't get what we wanted in Smash 4. But look at Ultimate's roster so far; it's all been characters that got big support during the Ballot period. Inklings were huge in the Ballot period, Ridley was not as big in the Ballot itself, but has always been a huge request in the community. I have very little doubt those two probably placed highly in the ballot, and that's why they were saved for Ultimate, rather then being crammed into Smash 4 as late-game DLC.

Besides, we already know that Sakurai was beginning to plan out Ultimate during Smash 4's DLC period. I have little doubt a number of popular Ballot choices are being added to/have at least been considered for that game.

 

[UltimateWario]

I'm not worried about boycots, what we should be worried about is people using this as "the last straw" to ban Bayonetta in Smash 4

oh nooo all two weeks of smash 4's remaining competitive life won't have bayonetta

They're not going to ban Bayo now because there's no point. Smash 4 is going to go the way of Brawl, almost guaranteed.

 

[Pakky]

I voted and sneaked

 

[StormC]

Won't matter how many people boycott the game if if it actually puts in ballot favorites like Banjo and K. Rool. Everyone else will be there at midnight.

 

[Deleted member]

I really wish die-hard Smash fans were not like this.

Why do they have to cause fights? Can they just be optimistic and get excited that we are getting a new Smash Bros. game?

 

[Iridium]

Considering how I probably will not play online for a long time, I hope CPUs can actually give me a challenge at higher levels, because for most of them, they seem way too easy to figure out and destroy in SSB4. This will not be such a big change, but I want CPUs to not feel useless. Also, I want to make my own CPU-based tourneys, like Alpharad himself has tried, just so I can see how they play.

 

[Pakky]

Won't matter how many people boycott the game if if it actually puts in ballot favorites like Banjo and K. Rool. Everyone else will be there at midnight.

I already pre-ordered

I wants it REALLLLL BAD

 

[PSIGuy]

I already thought the end of the DLC was the weakest so this is just like adding more poop to the poopfire for me. Disliked Cloud and Bayo for being braindead OP, disliked Corrin for being another milquetoast avatar, a 6th FE rep and taking a slot that could've actually gone to a character I liked. It's a shame because Mewtwo was a good start and releasing two veterans with a newcomer was a really smart move.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I know I voted for Inklings and Bandana Dee. I remember using my own devices for Bandana Dee and using school computers for Inkling.

 

[KMDP]

So I voted a few times on the ballot and, uh...

I have no recollection of who I voted for

I know who I voted for. I voted for Isaac, and I only did so once, because I'm a good boy like that. I spent a long time writing my pitch (like, almost the entire ballot period), because I wanted it to be perfect. I even kept it for prosperity, though it's on my old laptop.

 

[vaanrose]

I voted for Baby Metroid. I will die on this hill.

 

[Deleted member]

I already thought the end of the DLC was the weakest so this is just like adding more poop to the poopfire for me. Disliked Cloud and Bayo for being braindead OP, disliked Corrin for being another milquetoast avatar, a 6th FE rep and taking a slot that could've actually gone to a character I liked. It's a shame because Mewtwo was a good start and releasing two veterans with a newcomer was a really smart move.

Oh come on.
Just because a character is OP, you should not hate them. Bayonetta is a little annoying to fight yet I am fine with her in Smash Bros.

Also Corrin did not waste a potential slot, Sakurai chose Corrin. This has been said many times like about clones. Just because Sakurai chooses a fighter that you do not like does not mean that a potential character's chances are ruined.

I liked the Smash 4 DLC and newcomers. The Ultimate newcomers are looking very bright.

 

[DarkFalcon]

There's absolutely no point in getting upset over the Ballot stuff now. Even if you feel bamboozled from the last game that Ballot data is certainly being used now.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

I really wish die-hard Smash fans were not like this.

Why do they have to cause fights? Can they just be optimistic and get excited that we are getting a new Smash Bros. game?

Thank you. I mean, sure, the ballot information was interesting at first, but I just don't want to talk about it anymore at this point. I feel like people have just been nonstop complaining about this game and I'm honestly concerned it will reach a point where Sakurai will just be fed up and take some sort of drastic action. I mean, first the Waluigi thing, now this. I wish people could just be grateful that we are getting the best crossover event in, debatably, history and get off their high horses and stop being so heckin greedy

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Well if the ballot was actually used for Ultimate, how many potential new characters didn't get votes from participants that were under the assumption that characters already in Smash 4 as Assist Trophies or as part of someone's Final Smash were ineligible?

The fact it was advertised as being for Smash 4 DLC certainly did suppress the votes of certain characters that people assumed would be ineligible because of having an already existing role in the game. Ridley in particular got hit really hard by it as lot of his fans thought voting for him would have been a waste (though fortunately in Ridley's case he still made it in regardless).

 

[Slavic]

I know who I voted for. I voted for Isaac, and I only did so once, because I'm a good boy like that. I spent a long time writing my pitch (like, almost the entire ballot period), because I wanted it to be perfect. I even kept it for prosperity, though it's on my old laptop.

One might have been for... Fiora?? There was definitely an FE of some kind, and... who can say? I've changed a lot since then. (Also I am an unstoppable voting machine, none shall break my democratic reign)

 

[Makai Wars]

Disliked Cloud and Bayo for being braindead OP, disliked Corrin for being another milquetoast avatar, a 6th FE rep and taking a slot that could've actually gone to a character I liked.

Yeah...I'm honestly not sure if the timer on Cloud's Limit is going to be enough to prevent him from being stupidly OP in Ultimate. He still has huge speed, huge damage, huge range and since everyone is faster, he's going to be even harder to punish. I personally think his design is stupid from the ground up so I pray that my Smash 5 main isn't instantly invalidated from day 1 just because Cloud is in the base game. Seriously, I've suffered so much against Cloud as a Villager main that I don't even want to go back to Smash 4 since he's so common in my local scene.

 

[GalacticPetey]

There's no sense arguing and getting up in arms about this. Bayonetta got in and now she's here to stay. And who cares if the ballot didn't mean anything regarding her chances? She's a cool character and well deserving of a roster slot. The only thing people should be complaining about with regards to Bayo is how frustratingly overbearing she is in competitive play.

Reading some of the responses to this news is laughable. Really, trying to sue Nintendo? People are so entitled. I'd forgotten how hilariously serious some people took Smash speculation. It's supposed to be fun and full of guessing and when your most wanted doesn't make it in, it sucks for a bit but you get over it. You don't throw a tantrum and threaten to boycott because of one character.

And I'm sure fan favorites from the ballot will show up in Ultimate. I think Snake, Wolf, and Ice Climbers are proof of that. Isaac and King K. Rool fans should be celebrating as their chances just shot up.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Sad part is? ...This probably is right.

Albeit, at least Goku is popular as a character too and not just a meme. Unlike Shrek.

Fun Fact: DBZ Fighters has surpassed Street Fighter V at EVO in terms of Entrants. That game blew up like Crazy.

The fact Snake reveal has "back by popular demand" and that I voted for Snake leads me to believe ULTIMATE theme is based off of the ballot :D
My vote mattered for once...

 

[Zerp]

oh nooo all two weeks of smash 4's remaining competitive life won't have bayonetta

They're not going to ban Bayo now because there's no point. Smash 4 is going to go the way of Brawl, almost guaranteed.

The big problem is that they'll have precedent to ban Bayonetta in Smash Ultimate after that, regardless of whether or not she gets nerfed hard, she's still the invader, she doesn't belong, she cheated her way into our game and killed it is all they'll be thinking of.

Also, I still care about the few months we have left lol.

I really wish die-hard Smash fans were not like this.

Why do they have to cause fights? Can they just be optimistic and get excited that we are getting a new Smash Bros. game?

What fights are going on right now though? All I see is people discussing this civilly, not all of us are happy about this (I know I'm not happy about this at all lol), sure, but there's no real fighting going on.

There's absolutely no point in getting upset over the Ballot stuff now. Even if you feel bamboozled from the last game that Ballot data is certainly being used now.

I think there is a point, I'm not upset because my character didn't get in, heck, I love Bayonetta being in the game, she's my favorite match-up to play against, what I'm upset about and what I think most of us who are upset are upset about is the blatant misdirection/cheating that occurred.

 

[lordvaati]

This is the only time I will comment on this topic because I do not want this to continue on to leading to harassment or people getting hurt, but there is something I should mention:

Back around the time of Pokemon Black & White version's release, there was a voting contest held by Game Freak & Nintendo for who should be the special Pokemon distributed through the Dream World, an online service that connected to the games. In the time I frequented the Smogon forums, and the majority of the community agreed to vote for Ditto, since Dream world Pokemon would have their Hidden Abilities and Imposter Ditto was at the time the most used Pokemon on the simulators. At the end of every week, they would show the results of voting- the first week Ditto was voted to the #2 spot behind Arceus, so the Smogon campaign was seemingly working.

Alongside this though, another campaign was happening:4chan's Pokemon section was doing their own vote pushing to put Mudkip at the top of the ballots which was steadily growing at a rapid rate. The first week, Mudkip was around 17th place. The 2nd, it was 5th place. The 3rd week, it was 2nd place.

Arceus never dropped from first during any of the weeks and won the ballot.

It was heavily suspected that Arceus was always planned as a Dream World gift due to the US never getting the Azure Flute and most players missing a GameStop distribution. 4chan apparently all but confirmed it since their trolling of the polls possibly exposed a rigged winner the whole time. Needless to say, if the ballot was always booked, it's not the first time.

And that is all I'm saying about that.

 

[PLATINUM7]

After Mewtwo came back and Cloud got in, there wasn't much that could have been done to make me any happier.

Then Ultimate got its reveal. Then Ridley became playable.

I was down at first that this whole revelation means we were lied to but holy crap I couldn't care less now just thinking about these reveals again.

 

[vaanrose]

The fact it was advertised as being for Smash 4 DLC certainly did suppress the votes of certain characters that people assumed would be ineligible because of having an already existing role in the game. Ridley in particular got hit really hard by it as lot of his fans thought voting for him would have been a waste (though fortunately in Ridley's case he still made it in regardless).

I'm still not ruling out a few of our MIA Assist Trophies. If the newcomers are based on ballot choices, then really the newcomers are based on popular fan requests, and a lot of the ATs only became ATs in the first place because of those requests.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

For reference again, here is the leak that predicted the ballot being rigged for Bayonetta. I've quoted it this time:

Newcomer Hints: Whip, Pic Related, Witch, Sliced Apple, Anime, Archer, House, Science, Cards.

Echo Hints: Prime, Edgy, Dog, Asthma, Blue Hair.

Assist Hints: Lego, Merchant Egg, Octopus, Divine, Dad, Pig.

Bayonetta Hint: Something was on purpose and rigged for victory. The ballot, the viability, one of those is correct, one of those is false.

Source: Someone you're all well aware of.

My thoughts on the characters/assist trophies

Spoiler: I put a lot of thought into this

Whip: Simon Belmont (He fights with a whip, the only other prominent person to do so is Indiana Jones, so unless it's him)
Pic Related: Skull Kid. (You might think Dark Matter, but I think the "ha ha ha ha ha ha" in the picture sound like this and points to Skull Kid instead)
Witch: Ashley. Maybe Lip, but she's not a conventional witch like Ashley, who is literally a witch
Sliced Apple: Bandana Dee. Chandeelure can give you an explanation for this. Could also be Reimu because Touhou has something to do with Sliced Apples according to someone on 4chan? There's the song Bad Apple (which is an absolute banger), but I don't necessarily understand the correlation.
Anime: Vague, my guesses are Elma/Rex (Xenoblade is described as an anime-esque series), Lloyd Irving (Again, Tales of games are anime-esque, and his game also literally got an anime adaptation), or even Goku (literally anime). Could maybe also be Isaac or Saki, but I'll stick with my main three picks.
Archer: Decidueye. He's an archer.
House: Chibi-Robo(?) Unsure as this one's vague, but Chibi-Robo does manage a house (i.e. cleaning and such). Again, this one is vague.
Science: Could be Elma or Saki if they're not "Anime," as both come from futuristic, scientific settings. E. Gadd is an odd pick, but is actually a scientist. Same with Slippy Toad. It could be K. Rool as he was a mad scientist in one of his appearances, but I doubt it as the leaker would likely have given a more obvious hint. Eggman could also be considered here. This one is also vague, so I don't know.

Spoiler: Spoilers for Xenoblade X

Elma also has the whole alien species who provided humanity with technology and has humanity's consciousness stored in a computer thing going for her too.

Cards: This is either Paper Mario or Hanafuda Captain. I lean more towards Paper Mario given how he fought in Paper Mario Color Splash, which was well under development in December 2015 and could've been used as a point of reference if Sakurai wanted to add him and reflect his most recent iteration. Hanafuda Captain is also possible though. Yugi Muto is a darkhorse third party pick here (Come on, Pokémon vs. Yugioh would be hype to the max).

Prime: Dark Samus. Not hard to figure out.
Edgy: Shadow. Also not hard.
Dog: Isabelle. She is a dog.
Asthma: Ninten. He is the only character in Mother 0 to be inflicted with the status condition Asthma, which makes him miss turns
Blue Hair: Chrom. Another blue haired swordfighter.

Lego: Minecraft. It is often compared to Legos.
Merchant Egg: Someone on 4chan said Magalor?
Octopus: Either DJ Octavio or Octolings.
Divine: Either Viridi or the Champions from BOTW
Dad: Cranky Kong?
Pig: I don't know. If we get a pig-like AT confirmed though, we'll know.

Anybody else want to take a try at this one?

Also, who do you think the "source" might be? I can't think of anyone we're all well aware of that fits the bill. Vergeben's source maybe? Gematsu's source? I don't know.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

I voted only once as well and it was for Bandana Dee. If Ballot Results were being used as a guide for Smash ultimate characters, I think Dee has a good chance then. I know a lot of people voted for him!

 

[DarkFalcon]

I think there is a point, I'm not upset because my character didn't get in, heck, I love Bayonetta being in the game, she's my favorite match-up to play against, what I'm upset about and what I think most of us who are upset are upset about is the blatant misdirection/cheating that occurred.

I mean...so? It's been a couple years now. Why waste any energy at all being upset over something that happened in the prior game that will have no relevance barring Ultimate flopping hard. The ballot data isn't meaningless.

 

[Zinith]

I am not touching this Bayonnetta fallout with a 10-foot pole!!!

 

[Impa4Smash]

To repeat what others have said, in the end - does it really matter?

Clearly the ballot is playing a role in Smash 5. I'm sure Bayonetta did decently well in the polls regardless, and doing as well as she did in Europe was probably not a lie.

And we're most likely getting K Rool, Bandanna Dee, Geno, Simon, etc., etc. - all the the characters that did really well in the poll. I mean, we already got Ridley - and Daisy of all characters.

It's over and done with. What can we do. We were lucky to get DLC at all. Lucky to get Ultimate.

 

[StormC]

I think for most people, they just feel validated about their suspicions with the ballot - I know I do.

And it's a good lesson to keep in mind when you throw yourselves at the feet of corporations and defend them no matter what.

 

[Nexus Nova]

In some other forums, people are really calling foul to this and are jumping to conclusions.
I mean sure, there's some contradictions to how Bayo was announced but we really don't know how it went until Sakurai says it.

Also, why wasn't this mentioned years ago? Why now? This feels like it's staged to rile people up or something.

 

[PeridotGX]

I hardly remember who I voted for, I just remember they were weird. I think I remember Ninten, Viridi, and Pokémon Trainer (Not what we have, but actually using Pokémon items).