Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Troykv]

They may have strong-armed her into FE Warriors but afawk they didn't strong-arm her into Smash. In fact, they were apparently alright with Sakurai opting to go for the least popular of the three protagonists as the primary FE newcomer. Seems like if any precedent is to be observed, it's the one relating to the series we're talking about. Imo unless they get super overbearing and want to dictate the entire FE roster, they'd opt to push for a character with promotional relevance, Corrin-style. That's the Smash precedent.

Not that I'm saying Lucina will be cut. I've no idea, but it's possible.

Well, regardless of what happened, it seems IS would like to have Lucina playable in some way, even if she is just a costume.

IS will try to push her, but unlike with Warriors, they don't have power to control the Smash Roster (after all, it would have been the easy choice to hard push Chrom as the Awakening Rep), just a minor (but still relevant) influence.

 

[StormC]

Games been in Dev since 2014, and Sakurai is good buddies with Takahashi. He also said XBC2 is one of the best games hes ever played. I'm telling you Rex was planned from the start.

Famous last words. There are no sure things in this game.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I still need to play XC2 (it's funny, I'm listening to the original Xenoblade soundtrack right now as I'm typing).

Rex is gonna be tricky. He was revealed the same year his game came out. Development for XC2 is stated to start as early as 2014 at the tail-end of X's development. I'm sure after 1-2 years Sakurai could have gotten development plans and information about Rex and Pyra if he truly wanted to.

Either way, they'll end up on the roster somehow.

 

[Deleted member]

If Nintendo and Intelligent Systems literally strong armed Koei Tecmo, an outside company, into adding her into Fire Emblem Warriors late in development when they weren't going to add her initially, I have no doubt they'd want Sakurai to keep her in Smash.

The situations aren't exactly the same.

Fire Emblem Warriors is a game centered around Fire Emblem (no ****, Golden :V) that heavily incorporates characters from three "eras", Shadow Dragon/Mystery of the Emblem, Awakening, and Fates.

Lucina is a major character from the Awakening era. It makes sense why IS would stronghold Tecmo-Koei about her inclusion.

Smash is a helluva lot more than just Fire Emblem, and no one Fire Emblem "era" is any more important than the other in the context of Smash.
With the number of Fire Emblem characters being considered excessive by even Sakurai, there's not any reason to believe IS is just going to FORCE him to keep Lucina if she happens to be on the chopping block.

 

[Blargg888]

Famous last words. There are no sure things in this game.

More of this please.
Whenever I see "shoe-in" "Safe" "guaranteed" "no-doubt" "obvious" or "a given" I die a little inside.

Like, sure, there are some guarantees, but not nearly as many as people think there are.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Famous last words. There are no sure things in this game.

People also said Sakurai posting pics of the Monado and Dark pit meant nothing. And that the whiteboard drawing of veterans didn't mean they were safe, since Mr Game and Watch got cut since he didn't get a tag in the Pac Man video. There are some characters that have always been sure shots for each smash game. Smash speculation is almost like investing and stocks. Nothing is random if you keep a close eye on the circumstances and do your research. The tell alls are there for Rex currently.

 

[MrElectroG64]

What if they replaced Alph with Louie and made Alph his own character with rock pikmin instead of purple pikmin?

I'd honestly love it if they just added Rocks to olimar/alph's existing moveset (not sure how that would work with Purples tho) and make Louie the new Pikmin rep, complete with his King of Bugs theme by having him ride a dweevil and summon bugs for attacks. It would be amazing, but sadly it'll never happen.

 

[ErenJager]

I know I may be in the minority, but I would actually take some sort of cut in newcomers if it meant retaining the roster of the previous game.

Smash 4 have us a generous amount of newcomers, all of them fantastic. We lost Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Lucas, and Wolf. We got one of them back through DLC, as well as two of the most sought after veterans cuts in Mewtwo and Roy.

If they keep the roster we have and then add, say 8-10 newcomers, I frankly wouldn’t give a damn. Everybody is happy with characters they currently have, and can only add characters fans want to make them happier.

I know it’s not entirely realistic, but at this point that’s the route I would take if it were possible.

I agree, Smash 4 had a ton of characters, it lacked game modes.
I'd like to see a bigger focus on game modes, and hopefully the entire roster is more or less easily ported over to Switch.
I'd love to see every Smash veteran ever to return.
If it meant less newcomers, I wouldn't mind, there's probably less then 6 characters I actually really want added.

 

[StormC]

People also said Sakurai posting pics of the Monado and Dark pit meant nothing. And that the whiteboard drawing of veterans didn't mean they were safe, since Mr Game and Watch got cut since he didn't get a tag in the Pac Man video. There are some characters that have always been sure shots for each smash game. Smash speculation is almost like investing and stocks. Nothing is random if you keep a close eye on the circumstances and do your research. The tell alls are there for Rex currently.

I’m not even saying Rex/Pyra have bad odds, but trying to boil Sakurai’s character choices to an exact science is a fool’s game.

 

[MrReyes96]

The only guaranteed character is Tingle wearing K. Rool’s crown riding Ridley

 

[ErenJager]

I bought Xenoblade 2... it's a horrible game, well in my opinion... one of the opening cut scenes Rex is eating and it's just poorly animated...

Idk for $80 wasn't impressed... the voice acting is poor as well...

So i'm biased and wouldn't be hype for Rex at all... it just reminds me of spending 80 bucks and regretting it.

 

[Blargg888]

The only guaranteed character is Tingle wearing K. Rool’s crown riding Ridley

And Ridley is wearing Waluigi's overalls.

 

[Gumzilla]

So... What about a Fossil Fighters rep? I personally think Hunter and Duna would be the obvious picks!

And Ridley is wearing Waluigi's overalls.

While holding Ashley's wand

 

[Roberk]

I just hate Roy, a lot. His only popularity is through Smash. The same can be said for all of the other FE characters in Smash (Marth outdated, Ike overrated, Leif activated!), but Roy takes the cake. A whiny kid from a Japan-only game that is mid-tier for FE games would never have been this popular if it weren't for Melee. I severely dislike how arguments are made for Roy's (and other characters') inclusion is only for seniority. Franchises like FE and Pokemon have many good candidates and rotating characters in their games that should be added but are left out because of work put into veterans. Jigglypuff was almost cut 3 times but kept because she was a part of the original 12. Pokemon has 6 reps and 7 gens and only reps 3. Now people want Roy, mainly because he's a veteran. FE has 6 reps that don't represent popular games within the series like Blazing Blade or the Jugdral games. Not saying that Roy can't have an appeal, but there are so many better options.

I just ok with Lucina, don't really care that much because her inclusion doesn't hurt anybody. She reps an important game and is extremely easy to implement if kept as a clone (another reason I argue against Roy, work would have to be put in to stick to new moveset/declone him more.) As many have pointed out, she was forced into FE Warriors by Nintendo and IS, so she has to still be considered important. Some even speculate that she's being made the new face of the franchise and that Marth is slowly becoming a relic of the past. I'd rather her be an alt though, no offense, I just think a lot of lords as Marth alts would work really well since most share similar fighting styles.

I say just cut Corrin. Corrin is quickly losing popularity/relevance as shown in the 2017-2018 CYL polls, he moves from 5th to 9th. Fates is dying out and was only a success commercially, Corrin is considered the worst lord of the franchise. A moveset will be lost, but it's for the better. Unfortunately, we might actually get more Fates content since Smash 5 is being developed right after Fates' international release. I guess we'll have to see if we can finally be free of Fates promotion.

Cut Roy and revert Lucina to what she was supposed to be: an alt. However, I think this could be a solution for the FE character problem. Sure, Roy would lose his decloned moveset and unique attributes, but he'd live on as a Marth alt with Lucina and the other rapier-lords. This would also allow for more FE lords to be repped while allowing focus to be put onto more important things.

 

[MrReyes96]

And Ridley is wearing Waluigi's overalls.

No Waluigi will just be a normal newcomer

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

IMO, the thing going for Lucina is she's super easy to recreate like the other 2 clones. I feel this gives her a bigger edge over Roy, and possibly Corrin since he was quite specific timing. Roy I could see being cut though. Maybe on Corrin. Robin, Ike, and Marth feel rather safe.

 

[A Distant Demon]

So Xenoblade 2 is getting a big story DLC this fall. If the trailer is not during E3, it might get its own 10 minute direct mini....giving it a perfect opportunity to reveal Rex.

Smash reveals will never happen in non-smash/non-general directs.

Famous last words. There are no sure things in this game.

(yes I see the hypocrisy buuut)
this. Anyone who thinks anyone is a shoo-in or shoo-out(?) is setting themselves up for failure. Best to keep an open mind before we have what happened with Smash For again because people were sure about something and wound up being wrong.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I wonder how many shoes were actually eaten by the people who I saw say they'd eat their shoe if Ridley wasn't playable...

 

[ErenJager]

You know whose a shoo-in?

Oiram Repus from Balloon Fight on Game & Watch

Why?

Because his names Super Mario backwards for some reason.

He's gonna be our retro/ Balloon Fight rep.

///not srs.

 

[Blargg888]

I just hate Roy, a lot. His only popularity is through Smash. The same can be said for all of the other FE characters in Smash (Marth outdated, Ike overrated, Leif activated!), but Roy takes the cake. A whiny kid from a Japan-only game that is mid-tier for FE games would never have been this popular if it weren't for Melee. I severely dislike how arguments are made for Roy's (and other characters') inclusion is only for seniority. Franchises like FE and Pokemon have many good candidates and rotating characters in their games that should be added but are left out because of work put into veterans. Jigglypuff was almost cut 3 times but kept because she was a part of the original 12. Pokemon has 6 reps and 7 gens and only reps 3. Now people want Roy, mainly because he's a veteran. FE has 6 reps that don't represent popular games within the series like Blazing Blade or the Jugdral games. Not saying that Roy can't have an appeal, but there are so many better options.

I just ok with Lucina, don't really care that much because her inclusion doesn't hurt anybody. She reps an important game and is extremely easy to implement if kept as a clone (another reason I argue against Roy, work would have to be put in to stick to new moveset/declone him more.) As many have pointed out, she was forced into FE Warriors by Nintendo and IS, so she has to still be considered important. Some even speculate that she's being made the new face of the franchise and that Marth is slowly becoming a relic of the past. I'd rather her be an alt though, no offense, I just think a lot of lords as Marth alts would work really well since most share similar fighting styles.

I say just cut Corrin. Corrin is quickly losing popularity/relevance as shown in the 2017-2018 CYL polls, he moves from 5th to 9th. Fates is dying out and was only a success commercially, Corrin is considered the worst lord of the franchise. A moveset will be lost, but it's for the better. Unfortunately, we might actually get more Fates content since Smash 5 is being developed right after Fates' international release. I guess we'll have to see if we can finally be free of Fates promotion.

Cut Roy and revert Lucina to what she was supposed to be: an alt. However, I think this could be a solution for the FE character problem. Sure, Roy would lose his decloned moveset and unique attributes, but he'd live on as a Marth alt with Lucina and the other rapier-lords. This would also allow for more FE lords to be repped while allowing focus to be put onto more important things.

Honestly, the reason I want Roy and Lucina to stay is because I like playing as them. It doesn't have much to do with who they are, or their history in either series.

I'd say keep Corrin as well. I get that you don't like him, and that he's not as popular as before, but I'm not nearly as willing to let go of a moveset as unique as his. I really do think that he has a place in Smash.

And I know this might be a controversial opinion, but I'm just gonna say it.
If Roy and Lucina get cut, keep them cut.
As a Roy/Lucina player, I'd rather see them gone than have to see them become Marth alts. I think it's better that way, personally.

 

[ErenJager]

I wonder how many shoes were actually eaten by the people who I saw say they'd eat their shoe if Ridley wasn't playable...

I ground mine into a very fine dust, and just used the powder as a seasoning on my meals, it took roughly a year but I managed to eat an entire shoe that way.

 

[Fenriraga]

I dunno if this was reported already, but...

We have our source for the ARMS "Leak". And surprise surprise, it's a fake.

https://twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/986435961436491776?s=20

He even planned on leaking a Kirby Air Ride stage at one point.

 

[Gumzilla]

Can we address the elephant in the room in terms of cutting characters? Every time a character is cut something happens: A large group of fans get upset and beg for their return. It happened with Mewtwo and it's still happening with Snake and even Pichu! Just because a character is cut doesn't mean the memory leaves!

 

[Roberk]

The leak was on the 14th, was mainly a topic on the 15th. While it was debunked fast I really admire the work put into it.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Smash reveals will never happen in non-smash/non-general directs.

Smash Wii U had 15 newcomers on the base roster, with 13 getting their own trailer over a period of two years and two E3s

I'd say 15 newcomers is the safe bet for the launch game this time around as well, and so far we have gotten 1 reveal. If the game is going to make its 2018 launch window, that leaves 8 months....7 if we think its going to be out by November at the latest (just in time for Black Friday).

So 7 months for 14 character reveals. E3 will likely give us 3. A dedicated Smash direct might give us another 1-3 reveals. Thats around 8-10 reveals that are left for main directs between E3 and launch. Either they start revealing multiple characters for direct, or they start including them in direct minis. Eitherway the reveal intervals can't be the same as last game.

 

[StormC]

My hope is just that Cloud doesn’t get the axe. Square is weird. I already lost my Brawl main with Wolf, don’t take my 4 main.

 

[Hinata]

I dunno if this was reported already, but...

We have our source for the ARMS "Leak". And surprise surprise, it's a fake.

https://twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/986435961436491776?s=20

He even planned on leaking a Kirby Air Ride stage at one point.

Sorry mate, you're a little late to the party on that one.

He released the image for that KAR stage, and the render of Spring Man he used in the "leak".

Spoiler

He says he'll release the rest of the assets soon.

 

[Fenriraga]

Sorry mate, you're a little late to the party on that one.

He released the image for that KAR stage, and the render of Spring Man he used in the "leak".

Spoiler

He says he'll release the rest of the assets soon.

Figured as much. Ah well. Still cool.

 

[Troykv]

A very impressive work, at least was fun to have speculation for a while.

 

[Gumzilla]

Ok unrelated to the topic but I have a sig now! :D
What do you all think?

Hold on that's weird. It only appeared on one post. Why is that?

 

[Roberk]

Can we address the elephant in the room in terms of cutting characters? Every time a character is cut something happens: A large group of fans get upset and beg for their return. It happened with Mewtwo and it's still happening with Snake and even Pichu! Just because a character is cut doesn't mean the memory leaves!

Mewtwo and Snake were quite unfortunate, those are ones I believe should have a permanent place in Smash for various reasons. Mewtwo is one of the most iconic and interesting Pokemon, it still amazes me how he wasn't in Brawl or base Smash 4. (Probably saved for DLC.) Metal Gear is a long-lasting and innovative franchise that has roots in Nintendo systems, but Snake is third-party and hard to acquire. Plus, the whole Konami-Kojima deal.

Important, iconic, influential characters should hold their places but stuff like Pichu should not have to be brought back. How can the Smash roster grow if there's nowhere to expand with a full cast? Smash already has an outstanding amount of (mostly) unique fighters with many items, assist trophies, Pokemon, stages, and modes to boot. Enjoy that a cut character was part of Smash's legacy, and welcome what the future brings.

 

[Senselessbreak]

I find it amazing that everyone who doubted it at first screamed it was a Smash 4 mod. I even thought the same then I dove into it and found thats impossible, as did others. Just goes to show how talented people can be to make something from the ground up like this without mods.

Ok unrelated to the topic but I have a sig now! :D
What do you all think?

Hold on that's weird. It only appeared on one post. Why is that?

Whos behind Kirby haha? And sigs only appear once per page to avoid overloading the page with animated gifs and such.

 

[Gumzilla]

I find it amazing that everyone who doubted it at first screamed it was a Smash 4 mod. I even thought the same then I dove into it and found thats impossible, as did others. Just goes to show how talented people can be to make something from the ground up like this without mods.



Whos behind Kirby haha? And sigs only appear once per page to avoid overloading the page with animated gifs and such.

Oh ok.

 

[StormC]

Remember when people thought Meta Knight might be cut for Smash 4?

 

[Koopaul]

More of this please.
Whenever I see "shoe-in" "Safe" "guaranteed" "no-doubt" "obvious" or "a given" I die a little inside.

Like, sure, there are some guarantees, but not nearly as many as people think there are.

I prefer to use the terms "likely" and "unlikely" as I don't like to act like I'm absolutely certain about something. Anything is possible, and we simply don't know. But you still have to admit some things are probably more likely than others.

Many people theorized that Pac-Man would be in Smash 4 due to Namco helping to make the game. And guess what, they were right. However that's still no guarantee.

 

[Hinata]

Unrelated to the topics at hand, but just a fun little question I came up with.

Let's say every single character you're personally hoping for gets into Smash. In this event, which character on your wishlist would you play the most?

 

[Gumzilla]

I had an idea for a Fossil Fighters rep in the form of jira/Tria and Nibbles. Basically Red but they fight alongside Nibbles! I just need help coming up with moves. I already have a good idea for the Final Smash though!

 

[Senselessbreak]

Remember when people thought Meta Knight might be cut for Smash 4?

Ness has appeared in Super Smash Bros up until now!

 

[Gumzilla]

Unrelated to the topics at hand, but just a fun little question I came up with.

Let's say every single character you're personally hoping for gets into Smash. In this event, which character on your wishlist would you play the most?

Gardevoir all the way!

 

[StormC]

Unrelated to the topics at hand, but just a fun little question I came up with.

Let's say every single character you're personally hoping for gets into Smash. In this event, which character on your wishlist would you play the most?

If K. Rool is like Bowser in 4, I’d try like hell to main him. Fast, heavy, strong with great range. I’d probably try to pick Wolf back up as well. The rest just really depend on how they feel.