Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[N3ON]

The potential of Piranha Plant being our WTF is kinda nonsensical to me.
I mean...he /is/, but not our traditional base game WTF.

I feel having the Piranha Plant as one of the coveted DLC characters for a game like Ultimate is just an...astounding move.
And lemme make it clear: I LOVE HIM. But I'm just shocked and would love to hear why Sakurai included him.

Despite how he's being pushed, I just don't think he's effective incentive to get the game early. I think people who were going to jump on this game already would regardless and those that weren't... I dunno how swayed they're going to be by a piranha plant.

A third-party would probably be the best incentive, but I could see why none of them would opt to offer a free character.

 

[Bladeviper]

Nekoo-san
Do you think Bandai planned Agumon for Smash
Becouse of the new Digimon games for the Switch in 2019?

i would guess not, mostly because digimon was not from a video games originally and so far thats the only rule sakurai has set up that he has never broken

 

[Blueant22]

I'm fine with DLC being pre-planned and not based on who was being talked about now because imagine Sakurai telling someone from NOA to see who was popular in US boards and such and they just see Gothitelle being talked about.

 

[Graizen]

Look how people hate me:

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/437385153

Someone posted a Agumon picture there
"**** off, Graizen. "

Thank you. It was not me.

Im NOT the only person alive that wants Agumon in Smash.

 

[xzx]

Yeah he's a Spirit, what about it?

Are you sure? Where did you see him then (timestamp)? There's nothing about it, just everyone telling he is a Spirit and I never noticed despite rewatching the direct closely.

 

[Idon]

You know, I hear about low female representation alot here

isabelle
Peach,
Daisy
Samus
Pika Libre( yes Im counting her)
Rosalina
Zelda
The villager alts( yes Im counting them too)
the Miis
Jigglypuff
Lucina
Nana
Shiek
Wii Fit trainer
palutena
female corrin
female robin

What low female representation?

To be fair, a lot of those are just options and variations.

Out of the bunch, Peach, Isabelle, Samus, Rosalina, Zelda, WFT, and Palutena are the only unique and primary focus female characters.

 

[Deleted member]

The Grinch stuff was real and wasn't intended to be there according to a 4chan post.

If true, this is the greatest coincidence of all time.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I the only one that loves this direct?

I give it a 9.5 / 10. Might even be better than the August Direct. Well, maybe.

I've warmed up to it. This morning I was grouchy and gave it a 3/10, but after looking at all the positives and seeing how silly I was being, I give it a solid 7/10. A lot of my disappointment was my own fault for setting expectations for the finale too high, and for not giving the new modes a chance. The only thing I feel they really messed up was the pacing. I feel like the Direct should have opened with the World of Light trailer and then detailed Spirits before showing Ken and Incineroar.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Is Geno a Spirit? I couldn't see him when rewatching the direct...

He's an icon FOR spirits mode (player icon), but other than that...nope.

 

[potato69]

Although the direct was not everybody's cup of tea, this was the best part.

BRO WHY IS VILLAGER SO READY TO GO LMAOOOO pic.twitter.com/y2b4L2fvCt

— luke (@GameboyLuke) November 1, 2018

 

[Will]

* A mediocre looking spirits mode
Doesn't that sound kinda...lame?

Dude Story mode is looking hella lit. I don't care if you call it Adventure Mode, it is directly tied with Spirits and I'm still gonna call it Spirits.

 

[N3ON]

Let's get our hopes up for two seasons of DLC, what could go wrong!

 

[RyuhoFox]

Even if it's confirmed we're getting a Smash trailer at the VGAs before hand, I'm not wasting my time. I'll just go onto the website after to see who it is. It makes complete and total sense as to why you would want to promote something at the VGAs, but my experience watching them last year was absolutely miserable.

I'm a little biased here, sense I feel the same about all award shows

Honestly the awards tend to be more advertisements than anything. Also iirc a game that wasn't even fully released got an award which...honestly annoyed me

 

[Malkior7]

After the direct this is my DLC want list

1. Lloyd Irving
2. Elma
3. Banjo Kazooie
4. Shantae (this one is debatable)
5. -pending-

 

[The DanMan051]

It makes total sense. These sorts of things are decided waaaaayyyyy in advance-- and absolutely have to be if there are third party negotiations involved.

When you're directing or financing a game's development, there are a ton of things that need to be okayed. When Sakurai's making his plan and presenting it to Nintendo, it's not just which characters get in. It's a general financial proposal saying "I need X amount of time, X amount of money to pay X amount of staff, and we will accomplish X, X, and X." A popular way of covering overhead expenses is to plan ahead for DLC and factor that into your budget and staff. That's likely why he already knows it'll be five characters, and they already estimate they'll all be finished by Feb. 2020. That was the plan all along.

Even then, why would they prioritize characters with a questionable future? And if work doesn't start on them until development on the base game winds down, then why would they have to be locked in if they're first party?

It makes some sense for 3rd party characters, due to having to hammer out licensing agreements, but I'd think 1st party characters would be somewhat interchangeable at that point; if they were all decided years in advance, it'd have to be someone timeless or a character who they knew for a fact would be getting a marketing push that far in advance.

 

[Idon]

Fair, but still...we have
*Returning fighters from brawl-melee (and obviously smash 4) and SOME new
*A ton of old assists with SOME new
*Pretty much only old stages with no new non dlc stages
* No trophies
* A mediocre looking spirits mode
Doesn't that sound kinda...lame?

Well...
that's subjective, and you never know when someone's really into that sort of stuff.

But I do empathize with you in that I feel like a lot of the content in Ultimate doesn't appeal to me.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Look how people hate me:

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/437385153

Someone posted a Agumon picture there
"**** off, Graizen. "

Thank you. It was not me.

Im NOT the only person alive that wants Agumon in Smash.

Thats 4chan they hate everyone.. equally.

 

[TheCJBrine]

If true, this is the greatest coincidence of all time.

Yup; here's the post, found it in my browser history:
http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/437326689

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Dude Story mode is looking hella lit. I don't care if you call it Adventure Mode, it is directly tied with Spirits and I'm still gonna call it Spirits.

Oh, I didn't mean the actual story mode, I mean the other spirits thing they showed

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So Angels killed everyone but Kirby, and the last character revealed is an enemy who shuffles about in a plant pot.

Gainax Ending much?

 

[Makai Wars]

Let's get our hopes up for two seasons of DLC, what could go wrong!

Really hoping Sakurai goes back on his mantra about not having ATs playable, there are so many good fighters just locked away in that item. I hope we can get around 2 years worth of DLC before Sakurai goes on a long, long vacation.

 

[Bladeviper]

Ok i want to be clear to everyone, there is no story mode. According to the japanese direct the cutscene they showed for the direct is either the only one or one of very very few. They straight up said adventure mode is just fights so dont expect a story

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Since they seem to have implied they already planned DLC around the announcement of Xenoblade 2 (which is why they somewhat deconfirmed Rex) Im gonna say Edelgard or Byleth or definitely off the table. With this im assuming they planned DLC around early 2017 since the Xenoblade 2 trailer released in January 2017.

My Top 5 predictions...

1) Elma (Since there are no Xenoblade X Chronicles songs and it seems like theres not alot of content from the game. Also it released in the end of 2015, around the time the base roster was decided.)

2) Heihachi (Guile amd Akira are assist trophies, Heihachi was a outfit last game so maybe they are saving him, also Namco Bandai helos with smash.)

3) Lloyd Irving (Another Mii costume from last game, also Namco Bandai.)

4) Dante (If the Dante rumors are true and Capcom being very cooperative with their characters, I might actually see this happening. Also Hideki Kamiya is involved with both Bayonetta and Dante.)

5) Sora (Vergeben has rumored a square enix character. Geno might be the pick, but im beginning to doubt this. Might even be a Dragonquest character.)

 

[Just a random scrub]

Sakurai always includes a WTF character. But yeah I feel you, it still sucks for fans of niche characters. I personally wanted Paper Mario and now there's basically no chance for that.

Thinking about Piranha Plant on the same level as ROB, G&W, Duck Hunt, and Jigglypuff may make it not seem so bad. But again if you don't want to spend your money on this game I fully understand. Sakurai has made many bad(selfish/jerky?) decisions, but Nintendo never has been perfect and they never will be.

Thanks for understanding.

I considered the WTF character angle, but I don't think that's a good justifcation either. This is nowhere comparable to Jigglypuff, DH, R.O.B, etc, because they weren't dime a dozen mooks and had some reason to be in aside from the hell of it. What does Piranha Plant add to the roster? NOTHING.

So to sum it up...

You won't get the game because of a plant?

A plant that took time and resources away from any other character, out of hundreds of choices that actually had some importance to the games they starred in and weren't just basic NPC mooks, yeah.

 

[MainJPW]

Although the direct was not everybody's cup of tea, this was the best part.

BRO WHY IS VILLAGER SO READY TO GO LMAOOOO pic.twitter.com/y2b4L2fvCt

— luke (@GameboyLuke) November 1, 2018

Incineror's about to meet his maker.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Fair, but still...we have
*Returning fighters from brawl-melee (and obviously smash 4) and SOME new
*A ton of old assists with SOME new
*Pretty much only old stages with no new non dlc stages
* No trophies
* A mediocre looking spirits mode
Doesn't that sound kinda...lame?

not to me

There isn't a single game that's going to be perfect obviously

But Smash is imo the closest any multiplayer has gotten to an 'ultimate' status

 

[staindgrey]

Bayo 3 was revealed there, yes.

VGAs are big for Nintendo now, the "Reggie goes and shows Cranky gameplay surprising absolutely no one" days are gone. Zelda gameplay premiere, Bayo 3, Champion's Ballad, all in the VGAs.

Yeah, I know. I remember Cranky well. I just failed to remember it was Bayo 3. Memories got confused.

I'm still 50/50 on whether it'll be Smash-related. The game has gotten the bulk of their advertising since E3 at the expense of almost all their 2019 games. I could see an argument for that last hype push on the day of release, but I could also see an argument for literally anything else in 2019. Bayo 3, MP4, FE Three Houses, something brand new we didn't know existed... all of these could generate brand new buzz around the Switch, while I doubt there will be anyone watching the VGAs that hasn't already decided whether or not they're getting Smash.

 

[MainJPW]

Thats 4chan they hate everyone.. equally.

This. I mean...they call each other ******s routinely.

 

[Luigi The President]

Despite how he's being pushed, I just don't think he's effective incentive to get the game early. I think people who were going to jump on this game already would regardless and those that weren't... I dunno how swayed they're going to be by a piranha plant.

A third-party would probably be the best incentive, but I could see why none of them would opt to offer a free character.

I mean....you'd want a character who will still sell after a month of being free

 

[PsySmasher]

You know, I hear about low female representation alot here

isabelle
Peach,
Daisy
Samus
Pika Libre( yes Im counting her)
Rosalina
Zelda
The villager alts( yes Im counting them too)
the Miis
Jigglypuff
Lucina
Nana
Shiek
Wii Fit trainer
palutena
female corrin
female robin
inkling

What low female representation?

*cough* Wendy *cough*

 

[Will]

Are people really disappointed with our new Story mode? The overworld looks absolutely phenomenal, I adore the cel-shaded design. It seems to branch out farther than the maps looks too, because you have stuff like the Pac-Maze and outer-space. I think it's just fantastic and it won't disappoint, if you ask me. Call it a glorified Spirits with "plot" all you want, I think Spirits alone is a great concept that evolves on Brawl's stickers. You have to actually earn them and I love it.

Maybe people are disappointed that it isn't quite like Melee's Adventure mode levels or SSE's exploration, but we've yet to see it in its entirety. If Rathalos has its own level dedicated to it, I'm sure we're going to get a fair share of exploration-type levels.

 

[Weeman]

Let's get our hopes up for two seasons of DLC, what could go wrong!

But we already have 5 seasons confirmed.

 

[Deleted member]

Yup; here's the post, found it in my browser history:
http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/437326689

"all renders are actually kind of bad but with blurr it worked"

I'd still like to see them. Y'know, to have proof that MTP/OP was actually the guy.

Regardless, Grinch made this "leak" for me. Without it, I'd know it as the hoax that hyped up everyone's expectations for no reason. I didn't buy it, but I know quite a few who did, and it's a shame.

 

[staindgrey]

not to me

There isn't a single game that's going to be perfect obviously

But Smash is imo the closest any multiplayer has gotten to an 'ultimate' status

My imo-the-closest-thing-to-perfect was Street Fighter X Tekken.

But then the gems killed it. And the DLC was transparently moneygrubbing.

That game will forever make me ache with sadness.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I mean, fair enough... but if you really think about it...for a game called "Ultimate", it isn't really Ultimate. Yes it's cool to have all the ACTUAL newcomers and all the returning fighters and stages...but that's the issue...nearly 3/4 of the content is returning content with a few new modes, newcomers and no trophies, and as far as I know, no new INGAME stages (not counting dlc until reveal). It doesn't really feel ultimate to me.

It's not "Ultimate" worldwide though. In Japan it's just Smash Bros. Special. "Ultimate" was never a design philosophy as well.

And Smash has shifted to a character game for the last two entries, so it's to be expected kind of.

It's okay to be disappointed. I'm sad there aren't as many modes and some of the best (Home Run Contest, Smash Run, Smash Tour, and Stage Builder) have been cut entirely, but to expect it to be truly ultimate is kind of holding it to an unfair standard in my opinion.

That's projecting context, to be fair; Sakurai said nothing about DLC, and was seemingly talking about the base roster.


Because their designs were finalized too late and the DLC is seemingly prioritizing 3rd party characters.
You're projecting context and meaning towards something where the most obvious explanation is easily applicable.

Projecting context? What the **** does that mean?

*DLC IS ANNOUNCED* "I wonder if I'll ever get to take a break. By the way, here is one bonus you'll get when you purchase the fighters pass. It's a Mii Costume of Rex from Xenoblade Chronicles 2. We decided on which fighters to include when we started planning, so we couldn't add characters from titles such as Xenoblade 2, which was announced after planning had started."

There's the context right there. You still haven't answered my question as to why Rex and Pyra would be Mii Costume'd when they were the most popular recent (read: relevant) Nintendo character. Rex and Pyra would make a bunch of money and would be an amazing promotional opportunity, so then why are they Mii costumes?

 

[N3ON]

But we already have 5 seasons confirmed.

Six seasons.

And a movie.

 

[monadoboy]

So how long till we get Fanart of possessed characters?

Not fanart but a render edit:

Spoiler

 

[Bladeviper]

Are people really disappointed with our new Story mode? The overworld looks absolutely phenomenal, I adore the cel-shaded design. It seems to branch out farther than the maps looks too, because you have stuff like the Pac-Maze and outer-space. I think it's just fantastic and it won't disappoint, if you ask me. Call it a glorified Spirits with "plot" all you want, I think Spirits alone is a great concept that evolves on Brawl's stickers. You have to actually earn them and I love it.

Maybe people are disappointed that it isn't quite like Melee's Adventure mode levels or SSE's exploration, but we've yet to see it in its entirety. If Rathalos has its own level dedicated to it, I'm sure we're going to get a fair share of exploration-type levels.

View attachment 174867

once again, its not a story mode, its just fights as they have said in the japanese direct, the opening cutscene was heavily implied to be the only one

 

[MainJPW]

But we already have 5 seasons confirmed.

We do?

 

[SargeAbernathy]

The roster is the roster. So as disappointed as I am, I can't complain about it. The characters we have got this time around is AMAZING. Everyone is back, King K Rool and Ridley are in, Simon and his huge library of music is in...

The World of Light trailer was epic. It was beautiful to hear and listen to. I could listen to that song for hours.



But the Direct still leans toward disappointment. It's not about the characters, its about the frame of reference and the management of hype. For as much respect I give to the E3 and 8/8 directs .... this one is in the absolute opposite direction.

They should not have ended on Incineroar and Ken. They're fine characters, and I'm okay with them on the roster, but you created a Hype train with the 8/8 direct. It should've been the other way around. Reveal Ken and Incineroar on 8/8 and then reveal Simon and K Rool in this direct. It would've been more satisfying that way. In addition the Assist Trophies need to have been finalized 8/8. Developing a Hype Train on that day lead to over-speculation that Nintendo didn't want to control or acknowledge ... and it lead to someone taking advantage of it. So that stung for some people when Isaac was shown off as an Assist.

Now that sting was going to be there no matter what. It's the name of the game. Speculated characters were NOT going to get in. So hurt feelings will happen. But then there is the introduction of Piranha Plant. And that is just more salt on the wound. The expectation has ALWAYS been that characters are chosen by a level of merit. Piranha Plant is NO WHERE NEAR any sort of level of merit. It does not have its own game. It does not have history on the level of Simon, Daisy, or even Mach Rider. It made me wince, and I also thought it was the equivalent of "Jumping the Shark" .... (I'm not sure of that any more, it seems Smash fans can bounce back, but it wasn't the smartest move).

And then there's Spirit Mode. It's convoluted and confusing, and it took up most of the Direct. And what Spirit mode is has NEVER been what Smash was about. Smash was about what you showed off in 8/8 Direct. What Spirits mode is ... is just ... confusing. It isn't even "new mechanics" that fit well with the game .... it really looks like mechanics that were forced into it without a lot of care.

It is honestly like I've witnessed TWO separate games. The game introduced at E3 and 8/8 that is a Smash Game ...........

... and then whatever this is. A game that somehow stole Smash's awesome story-mode trailer.




Still. The game is forever popular, and it will do well.

And Sakarai is right ... a LOT of people spent a LOT of time on this. That is evident. I may not agree with the mechanics .... but it is obvious they poured their soul into it and I do commend them for that.

People will buy it. I'm, sadly, not going to be one of them. I have made the decision after wrestling with it that I want to put my money else where. I hope maybe the first DLC pack can regain some trust ..... and I DAMN well hope that Spirits Mode isn't as freaking confusing as they made it out to be ...