Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

I mainly think it’d be weird to have regular Toad as a move for Peach, but Captain Toad as a character.

This is a much more extreme example, but it’d be like having Pikachu as a pokeball summon while Detective Pikachu is playable. Maybe a more reasonable example is having one of the Squid Sisters or the Off the Hook members playable while having Inkling be an assist.

Toad is a generic species, so it shouldn't be weird to see two different Toads on the playing field, especially since they're literally everywhere in the Mario series. I always took the Toad Peach uses as one of the randoms present in the Mushroom Kingdom (since seriously, why would the Toad be reduced to... whatever you would call it). Not to mention Captain Toad is an actual character rather than a random generic Toad.

If it's still not palatable enough, Peach could easily use Blue/Yellow Toad or Toadsworth instead.

Do you honestly want a character with a worse recovery than Little Mac? And little Mac still does have jumps to mix up his recovery a bit if he's close enough to the stage. You're asking for a character who does what Mac does but even worse.

Captain Toad would have really good recovery moves to make up for it. I could see a mine cart side special and some kind of really far reaching up special.

Little Mac can at least jump to Battlefield's platforms.

If Captain Toad is unable to jump, he it is literally impossible for him to reach those platforms unless he is knocked upward.

Seriously, why does this need to be discussed? It is a terrible, terrible idea.

He'd probably summon a block with his down special to be able to walk onto these platforms without jumping or using an up special. That's how he traverses the terrain in his own game after all.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Reminder that Sonic can swim in Smash.

 

[Freduardo]

And then immediately gets bodied because he's left in a very vulnerable state. Even the lowest level players could take advantage of that. Not to mention they removed tether recoveries as primary recoveries as a whole in SSB4. I know there's still tether recoveries in the game, but they aren't the primary option for any character. I know we have pointed out that design philosophies change, but that change seems highly intended and I don't imagine it's going to change.

So the weight of his backpack also presents another one of the ways Smash 4 had balance over that and what little Mac uses:

Armor.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I don't want to discuss this any more, I've made my points. Recovery moves are too predictable to replace jumps entirely, they are not a viable option. A character who can't jump just won't work. I'll leave the rest of this discussion to everyone else.

 

[Stratos]

A new battle for Spring Man and Ribbon Girl in the upcoming Super Smash Bros.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I honestly want it as more of a gimmick than anything. It is not as though I genuinely feel as though the character would be any good. Just a "for fun" pick which is more or less what the game is about. I personally play on Omega stages anyhow, so it would not be a big deal to me personally. I doubt it would even happen, but there is no denying it would be... different.

Our definitions are "fun" appear to be pretty different.

A character who is unable to reach Battlefield's platforms without being knocked to them doesn't sound "fun" to me in any sense of the word.

He'd probably summon a block with his down special to be able to walk onto these platforms without jumping or using an up special. That's how he traverses the terrain in his own game after all.

He'd still me at a major disadvantage for the simple fact that it would take a lot longer to reach those platforms.

Also the fact that you need to dedicate one of his attacks to doing what jumps do - give him aerial movement - pretty much proves my point.

 

[Morbi]

Our definitions are "fun" appear to be pretty different.

A character who is unable to reach Battlefield's platforms without being knocked to them doesn't sound "fun" to me in any sense of the word.


He'd still me at a major disadvantage for the simple fact that it would take a lot longer to reach those platforms.

I meant "fun" as in, it would be a unique approach to the game and I have fun by trying different play-styles. If he was built around that weakness, you never know, it might actually be usable. I doubt, in this hypothetical, they would get rid of his jump and give him nothing to compensate.

For instance, what if his recovery move was fully invincible? That already changes the context and makes him a much better character. If they went as far as to remove his jump, they might break other mechanics as well.

 

[Stratos]

I will like see a character based from Nintendo Labo like Mr. Game & Watch from Game & Watch series.

 

[Morbi]

I will like see a character based from Nintendo Labo like Mr. Game & Watch from Game & Watch series.

I would play it just for the irony. If they are trying to sell cardboard for 69 dollars, they better give us a convincing reason. And in my experience, Smash has always been a good reason.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh boy now I'm having PTSD flashbacks to the time when I was banned but I was still lurking this thread
Judging by the Captain Toad debates that took place back then I'd say this one's not gonna end well

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Actually, I have one more comment. I am certainly not against Captain Toad being in the game. I love Toads, and Captain Toad is a well designed and interesting take on the character. I would love to see him in the game, but only if it makes sense.

Now I have barely played the Captain Toad games. Are there any small spring pads or jump pads that propel him up at all? Is it possible that, if these exist, they become his "jump"? He carries all kinds of tools, why not carry small spring jump pads to Smash? His gimmick could be small Sonic springs to jump. Just like Sonic's spring and Mega Man's Rush can launch enemies, his spring jumps could launch enemies, just significantly less than Sonic's Spring and Mega Man's Rush Coil.

Obviously that hangs on whether spring pads are even in Captain Toad's game. I'm merely throwing out a possibility because I do like Captain Toad, I just don't think a character with no jump is even remotely possible.

 

[?????????????]

Okay, how about Donkey Kong characters?

For a while now, we've had DK and Diddy, which I would consider the bare minumum "must-have" DK characters. Is that good enough, or would you like to see more?

Personally, I want much more; I think it's sorely underrepresented, considering the number of Donkey Kong games and the large cast of unique characters.

Dixie, Cranky, and now Funky all seem like good choices, given their roles in Tropical Freeze, plus they all have abilities that differentiate them from Donkey and Diddy. However, I still love the idea of K. Rool as well; a great, unused villain with LOTS of abilities.

 

[Chron]

Spoiler: Drops

Spoiler: Likely

Spoiler: Unlikey

Spoiler: Additions

Spoiler: Likely

Captain Toad, BotW Champion, Toon Zelda, Decidueye, Celica, Bandana Dee, Wolf, Rex & Pyra, Ice Climbers, Megaman, Protoman, Shovel Knight

Spoiler: Unlikely

Bowyer, Skull Kid, Toon Zelda, Tapu Lele, Krystal, Nia, Advanced Wars, Funky Kong/Dixie Kong, Plague Knight, Terra

Spoiler: Alternate Costumes

{Mario: Wedding, Doctor, Builder, 64},
{Peach: Wedding},
{Bowser: Wedding, Dry},
{Marth: Lucina},
{Fox: Sunglasses},
{Rex: Blades},
{Tapu Lele: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/81e482504a443421229001224c0e4185?s=192&d=https://smashboards.com/styles/uix/xenforo/avatars/avatar_male_l.png }

My prediction Roster.
(Aside from the Unlikely Additions, which are just characters that I want with little chance of joining, I don't necessarily want any of these to leave(or join), but these are just my predictions for a realistic roster.)

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Okay, how about Donkey Kong characters?

For a while now, we've had DK and Diddy, which I would consider the bare minumum "must-have" DK characters. Is that good enough, or would you like to see more?

Personally, I want much more; I think it's sorely underrepresented, considering the number of Donkey Kong games and the large cast of unique characters.

Dixie, Cranky, and now Funky all seem like good choices, given their roles in Tropical Freeze, plus they all have abilities that differentiate them from Donkey and Diddy. However, I still love the idea of K. Rool as well; a great, unused villain with LOTS of abilities.

Cranky Kong but his moveset is from Street Fighter's Rolento

 

[Deleted member]

I will like see a character based from Nintendo Labo like Mr. Game & Watch from Game & Watch series.

Come on over to the Toy-Con Robot support thread. It's still pretty barren but I'm working on it.

He'd still me at a major disadvantage for the simple fact that it would take a lot longer to reach those platforms.

Also the fact that you need to dedicate one of his attacks to doing what jumps do - give him aerial movement - pretty much proves my point.

I don't know why you think he would reach those platforms slowly. Who said the block wouldn't elevate as quickly as a normal jump?

At the end of the day he still needs to be able to move through the air somehow, I'm not disputing that. It is a platform fighter. I'm just saying that it can still be done without jumping in a traditional sense in order to preserve the feeling of navigating a Treasure Tracker puzzle, which a block summon would accomplish.

Edit: Going to reiterate that Captain Toad could just jump anyway, but that's not as fun to theorize about.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Cranky Kong but his moveset is from Street Fighter's Rolento

Throws bananas instead of knives, oranges instead of grenades... I like where this is going.

 

[Caryslan]

I know it sounds crazy, and it might not even work in the context of Captain Toad or Smash, but I have an idea to get around Captain Toad's inability to jump without breaking canon or leaving Captain Toad with a major handicap.

In the Dragon Ball franchise, Mr. Satan/Hercule is infamous for his inability to fly or use any form of Ki. So, how do they balance that weakness out when he shows in games as a playable character? Well, given pretty much every single character can fly in Dragon Ball, they give Satan a jetpack so he's not put at a disadvantage.

So, I think we could do something for Captain Toad here. Rather than jumping naturally like the other characters, Captain Toad uses some kind of device that lets him simulate jumping. Of course, to balance out giving him a good ground game(which I agree with), make him like Little Mac with awkward jumps and weak aerials.

It lets him jump with forcing Sakurai to break canon to do so.

 

[Morbi]

Okay, how about Donkey Kong characters?

For a while now, we've had DK and Diddy, which I would consider the bare minumum "must-have" DK characters. Is that good enough, or would you like to see more?

Personally, I want much more; I think it's sorely underrepresented, considering the number of Donkey Kong games and the large cast of unique characters.

Dixie, Cranky, and now Funky all seem like good choices, given their roles in Tropical Freeze, plus they all have abilities that differentiate them from Donkey and Diddy. However, I still love the idea of K. Rool as well; a great, unused villain with LOTS of abilities.

After Tropical Freeze, I cannot see anyone but Funky Kong to be completely real. Nintendo has something against King K. Rool, Cranky is awesome; however, I am not sure if they would go for it, and Dixie is Diddy with a weave aesthetically. So I prefer we go a different route.

 

[?????????????]

Throws bananas instead of knives, oranges instead of grenades... I like where this is going.

WALNUTS, PEANUTS, PINEAPPLE SMELLS

 

[Deleted member]

I'd be excited if K. Rool made it in.
Though they probably wouldn't give him a sword so that sucks :/

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Okay, how about Donkey Kong characters?

For a while now, we've had DK and Diddy, which I would consider the bare minumum "must-have" DK characters. Is that good enough, or would you like to see more?

Personally, I want much more; I think it's sorely underrepresented, considering the number of Donkey Kong games and the large cast of unique characters.

Dixie, Cranky, and now Funky all seem like good choices, given their roles in Tropical Freeze, plus they all have abilities that differentiate them from Donkey and Diddy. However, I still love the idea of K. Rool as well; a great, unused villain with LOTS of abilities.

K. Rool and Dixie I'd say are the most likely. I'd like to have Funky Kong as well; that surfboard he's got in Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze would make for a fun playstyle.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Spoiler: Drops

Spoiler: Likely

Spoiler: Unlikey

Spoiler: Additions

Spoiler: Likely

Captain Toad, BotW Champion, Toon Zelda, Decidueye, Celica, Bandana Dee, Wolf, Rex & Pyra, Ice Climbers, Megaman, Protoman, Shovel Knight

Spoiler: Unlikely

Bowyer, Skull Kid, Toon Zelda, Tapu Lele, Krystal, Nia, Advanced Wars, Funky Kong/Dixie Kong, Plague Knight, Terra

Spoiler: Alternate Costumes

{Mario: Wedding, Doctor, Builder, 64},
{Peach: Wedding},
{Bowser: Wedding, Dry},
{Marth: Lucina},
{Fox: Sunglasses},
{Rex: Blades},
{Tapu Lele: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/81e482504a443421229001224c0e4185?s=192&d=https://smashboards.com/styles/uix/xenforo/avatars/avatar_male_l.png }

My prediction Roster.
(Aside from the Unlikely Additions, which are just characters that I want with little chance of joining, I don't necessarily want any of these to leave(or join), but these are just my predictions for a realistic roster.)

May I ask why you believe Little Mac, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, and Shulk are likely to get chopped?

Let’s throw Bayonetta in there too.

I understand the others. Greninja May sadly fall fall to the Pokémon Cut Curse.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I'd be excited if K. Rool made it in.
Though they probably wouldn't give him a sword so that sucks :/

Tbh as long as he can throw his crown and then look around cluelessly for a moment I think we'd all be happy.

 

[?????????????]

I understand the others. Greninja May sadly fall fall to the Pokémon Cut Curse.

I doubt it. Lucario never got cut (possibly thanks to Mega Evolution), and Greninja has the Satoshi-Greninja transformation going for him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The issue with a grappling hook is tether recoveries were removed as Up B moves. Mostly because lots of stages don't have grabbable ledges that work with it. I could see it as an "aim" and then it sticks in the air, though. If you don't aim, it'd grab the closest ledge.

As for jumping, no thanks. That undermines his character. Now having something like a Cannon fire him upward, or something like that, it'd fit more with who Captain Toad is without taking away his most important feature.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Okay, how about Donkey Kong characters?

For a while now, we've had DK and Diddy, which I would consider the bare minumum "must-have" DK characters. Is that good enough, or would you like to see more?

Personally, I want much more; I think it's sorely underrepresented, considering the number of Donkey Kong games and the large cast of unique characters.

Dixie, Cranky, and now Funky all seem like good choices, given their roles in Tropical Freeze, plus they all have abilities that differentiate them from Donkey and Diddy. However, I still love the idea of K. Rool as well; a great, unused villain with LOTS of abilities.

K. Rool is my first choice, followed by Dixie or Funky. Four characters seems like more than enough for the DK series.

 

[Morbi]

May I ask why you believe Little Mac, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, and Shulk are likely to get chopped?

Let’s throw Bayonetta in there too.

I understand the others. Greninja May sadly fall fall to the Pokémon Cut Curse.

I can honestly see Shulk just because, outside of Monado arts, he did not offer too much and a Xenoblade 2 character is about as likely as they come. I am not sure if people will look back on Nintendo's history and believe that Xenoblade was one of the most important games. Maybe they will. I do not know, but the series is already evolving as far as I can tell. I know people hate the "generic anime swordsmen" argument; however, it exists for a reason.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I doubt it. Lucario never got cut (possibly thanks to Mega Evolution), and Greninja has the Satoshi-Greninja transformation going for him.

Even aside from that, we know why other pokemon were cut over time. Pichu was a clone, Mewtwo seemed to fall to time constraints bc he had significant enough data in Brawl to be remade in PM, and the.Pokemon Trainer mons died to the no transformations in smash 4. I don't see a logical reason cut Greninja based on what we know. At worst I think he'd fall to time constraints, but I highly doubt that's going to be an issue

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If Mario gets a new rep, it'll be Captain Toad. No doubt.

I'd prefer the standard Toad more, but Captain Toad could always be a palette swap option. The biggest problem with Captain Toad is his inability to jump, and that's not good for a game series where jumping is vital for air battles and recovery.

 

[?????????????]

I can honestly see Shulk just because, outside of Monado arts, he did not offer too much and a Xenoblade 2 character is about as likely as they come. I am not sure if people will look back on Nintendo's history and believe that Xenoblade was one of the most important games. Maybe they will. I do not know, but the series is already evolving as far as I can tell. I know people hate the "generic anime swordsmen" argument; however, it exists for a reason.

If Ike never got cut in favor of new characters, I don't see why Shulk would. They can just have both.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Throws bananas instead of knives, oranges instead of grenades... I like where this is going.

Dentures, bananas, throw in a few DK arcade references in there and rolling was a big part of DK's moveset in the DKC games anyways.

 

[Deleted member]

Unpopular opinion: I don't think anyone will get cut
I don't think it's a port but I don't think it's built from the ground up either

 

[Chron]

May I ask why you believe Little Mac, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, and Shulk are likely to get chopped?

Let’s throw Bayonetta in there too.

I understand the others. Greninja May sadly fall fall to the Pokémon Cut Curse.

Most disagree, but I think that Little Mac and Duck Hunt are being replaced by new Retro characters.
Wii Fit Trainer just seems like an easy drop choice for more new characters considering this game won't be on a Wii system or have Wii Fit.
Shulk is the most likely to stay but he is possible to get cut because of Rex.

Okay, I lied. Bayonetta is the most likely to stay but sometimes I try to forget she was ever in Smash.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I can honestly see Shulk just because, outside of Monado arts, he did not offer too much and a Xenoblade 2 character is about as likely as they come. I am not sure if people will look back on Nintendo's history and believe that Xenoblade was one of the most important games. Maybe they will. I do not know, but the series is already evolving as far as I can tell. I know people hate the "generic anime swordsmen" argument; however, it exists for a reason.

Xenoblade was arguably the best RPG of that generation, and in my opinion, best RPG ever. From character arcs, to voice acting, to music, to the plot, it was just an absolute masterpiece. I don't forsee Shulk disappearing any time soon.

 

[?????????????]

Unpopular opinion: I don't think anyone will get cut
I don't think it's a port but I don't think it's built from the ground up either

Oh, is that an unpopular opinion? It makes complete sense to me. Even if it's through DLC, my guess is that they'll WANT to return every character, if they can.

 

[Stratos]

Maybe Rex from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 coming as newcomer. I hope for that.

 

[Chron]

If Ike never got cut in favor of new characters, I don't see why Shulk would. They can just have both.

Because Ike is so much more popular.

 

[?????????????]

Most disagree, but I think that Little Mac and Duck Hunt are being replaced by new Retro characters.

If Little Mac gets cut, I will LITERALLY throw a fit.

But I'm not worried about that. They NEVER cut unique characters representing their own series.

The only exceptions have been Snake and Ice Climbers, for VERY specific reasons.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Unpopular opinion: I don't think anyone will get cut
I don't think it's a port but I don't think it's built from the ground up either

I have thought that all along, honestly. Especially considering how polished Wii U was, I would imagine the characters mostly got ported over and are just receiving some updates.

 

[Megadoomer]

I feel like people are putting way too much emphasis on Captain Toad not being able to jump in his games. Characters like Snake, Link, Olimar, Villager, and Ness couldn't really jump in their original games, but that didn't mean they were excluded.