Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CannonStreak]

Yoshi , Bowser, and Peach should be the next ones on the victim list for these new reveals.

Hey, what if Zinith reads that?

 

[Deleted member]

The best mod.

But that's where you're wrong:

There's also the bearded Ryu

 

[domriver]

Hey, what if Zinith reads that?

oh he will.

 

[Ultinarok]

Uhhh I'm not so good at calculating the exact percentages of things that bear no certainty or are somehow intangible, so I guess I'll just do some opinions.

Geno: Not a fan be personally, if only because he isn't a very important addition. He's not boring, unworkable or unlikeable. And he has the popularity. He's just not very important, and that's an objective truth. If he gets in, it's entirely because of popularity and not because he's a true "All-Star".

Isaac: A much better argument can be made the importance of Isaac, as he's the representative of his own series, and is as important in Golden Sun's sequels as Geno in his only game. He can claim the right of being an "All-Star" as Golden Sun really meant something years ago. I would like to see him make it.

Incineroar: One of my least favorite starter Pokemon full stop. Would much rather have either other starter, but Decidueye is the one who has the real shot so my money's on him. I won't be upset if Incin gets in, I just don't care for him.

Skull Kid: I support. Majora's Mask is a real gem, a one of a kind game. Skull Kid is the best Zelda newcomer candidate we have left when it comes down to it, and he'd be quite an addition. Good villain, neat character concept in Smash, goody goody. Support for sure.

Banjo-Kazooie: Should've been in since Melee and that's a fact. The biggest crapshoot Microsoft has ever pulled on gaming. Bring on the bear and the bird already, seriously. BK and BT were legendary.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

My Opinion on the Boring/Fab Depending on Who You Ask Five™:

Isaac - I'd mainly be happy for N3ON
Incineroar - I'd mainly be happy for @GoldenYuiitusin
Geno - I'd mainly be happy for PsychoIncarnate
Skull Kid - I'd mainly be happy for his fans
Banjo - Honestly not really my cup of tea, but I got Chrom so bring on anything, really

Main reason why I'm not going to say anything antagonistic against Isaac and don't mind seeing him is is I'd be happy for N3ON

If I get Geno though I'd be a little more happy for everyone...

I've seen Isaac as a sort of vague rival

 

[Dee Dude]

I love how some people are still salty about Dark Pit to this day. If it weren't for Pittoo, Doc and Lucy, we might not have echo fighters today. That means no Dark Samus. That means no Richter. That means, ironically, no Chrom.

I, for one, am grateful for our "pointless" clone friends.

I mean...Echo Fighters are still clones albeit with a fancy official name for people to finally accept them so...

Hell, Chrom, Daisy, Dark Samus, etc probably would’ve still happened anyway lol.

 

[Opossum]

I love how some people are still salty about Dark Pit to this day. If it weren't for Pittoo, Doc and Lucy, we might not have echo fighters today. That means no Dark Samus. That means no Richter. That means, ironically, no Chrom.

I, for one, am grateful for our "pointless" clone friends.

Lucina getting in Smash to change her father's fate is amazing in retrospect.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

-Main 5
-Ninten argument
-Newcomer year debut forum game

Nothing much other wise.

Ninten's not gonna happen.

Looks way too much like Ness and it's been purposefully made ambiguous by Itoi himself as to whether they're the same person or not.

 

[KMDP]

But that's where you're wrong:
View attachment 160417

There's also the bearded Ryu

Everyone says Sans should be Ness' Echo.

I disagree.

It should be Steven Unive- *shot by hatedom*

 

[blazefan519]

So... what did I miss?

Boring/Fab 5
Ninten shenanigans
British Hats
Mimique "leaks"

And that's about it

Ninten's not gonna happen.

Looks way too much like Ness and it's been purposefully made ambiguous by Itoi himself as to whether they're the same person or not.

They could pull his design from the Mother 1 commercial which the fans use.

 

[lizard1929]

oh he will.

how about that juicy cgi used for when Mario ditches Yoshi to survive an attack from a newcomer.
Edit: Newcomer Boshi?!?! (jk)

 

[StormC]

Boring five, more like... not boring six!

Isaac
Chance: 55%
Want: 60%

Shouldn't be anything stopping his inclusion, his series being dead shouldn't be a big enough impediment with enough fan demand, but competition is pretty fierce for the last few characters and general obscurity to the public might hurt him.

I'm personally not a Golden Sun fan but I think he could be a really cool fighter and I'd be stoked for his fans.

Banjo-Kazooie
Chance: 60%
Want: 95%

If Banjo was owned by Nintendo, he'd be at least over 70%, but it's unknown really what a Nintendo/Microsoft partnership would look like. I don't know what Sakurai thinks of Banjo-Kazooie, but we didn't know what he thought of K. Rool until he added him. I am pretty confident in him happening, but not as confident as I was in K. Rool. As far as I can tell, the only website where Banjo-Kazooie wasn't dominant during the ballot was, ironically, SmashBoards.

I wasn't as invested in Banjo at the time because I put all my eggs in the K. Rool basket, but now he's easily my most wanted. I played the everloving hell out of the N64 games and Banjo-Kazooie is in my top 5 of all time. The only potential newcomer left that would probably send me into hype overdrive.

Incineroar
Chance: 70%
Want: 70%

I'm still not sure we're getting a new Pokemon but if I had to say one way or the other, it's more likely than not, and it's probably Incineroar. Pokemon is big, as an IP it generates more revenue than Star Wars. Incineroar has Ash in his concept art and was probably getting pushed by TPC during the design document, not to mention his design being a perfect fit for Smash.

I'm still more of a Decidueye guy but Incineroar has grown on me a lot. I'd be totally fine with him in Smash. Wrestling matches with K. Rool would be dope.

Geno
Chance: 50%
Want: 30%

Sakurai wants him and fans want him. Can he be obtained from Square? Probably, but perhaps other characters, especially more popular ballot picks, would be prioritized first. Again, if he was a Nintendo character, I'd easily bump this up by at least 10%.

I wouldn't dislike Geno's inclusion, but I truly don't believe he's Nintendo all-star material. He's not even the most important character in the one game he appeared in, and said game is one of my all time favorites. I could accept him as a generic "Mario RPG rep," and he would be fun, but eh. Not someone I'd include personally, but I'd be happy for his longtime fans.

Skull Kid
Chance: 40%
Want: 50%

The presence of the Moon AT is the main reason I'm rating him this high. It's a very bizarre choice to have if Skull Kid is an AT, and I'm not sure why they would remove Skull Kid's AT for it. I'm not even gonna touch the office room speculation, but it's worth nothing that he was added to Hyrule Warriors at the perfect time for the design document, giving him lots of moveset potential.

Like Geno, I don't really feel like he quite cuts the mustard; you don't even fight him in Majora's Mask, so you would really be playing as some sort of weird proxy of Majora instead. Like SMRPG, though, I am a huge fan of his game, and Zelda could definitely use a newcomer.

Bandana Dee
Chance: 50%
Want: 70%

Regardless of your opinion on the character, he is without a doubt currently the most important Kirby character not in the game right now. He's one of the most popular characters in Japan, but during the ballot his support wasn't as big in the west, and it would be difficult to get non-Kirby fans excited about him. It's basically going to come down to whether or not Sakurai continues to ignore new Kirby content (outside of two Final Smashes and a costume), or whether he wants to go out of his way to please Japanese fans.

I'm not as invested in Bandana Dee as some of his more fervent supporters, but I definitely think he should be in and would love to play as a spear fighter, plus the juxtaposition of a cute little mook fighting in Smash is amusing. He's the unique newcomer I want the most after Banjo-Kazooie, and really hope he can make it despite the tough competition.

 

[Noipoi]

So... what did I miss?

The creation of the incredibly likely fiercely fabulous five.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Honestly I'm going to be surprised if we even get 3 of the 5 "likely" newcomers. Look I hate to rain on people's parade again about this but if the last two smash games and the DLC era taught us anything, we tend to be off the mark with our predictions.

 

[KMDP]

So...

When did this thread become the RtC Thread?

 

[Radical Bones]

I still really want our retro rep to be either Excitebiker or Mach Rider.

I just think the idea of a guy riding a bike around the battlefield would be awesome.

So I'm adding Excitebiker to 'the list' AKA my most wanted newcomers.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, so here's a question for everyone. A lot of these 'Games' we're playing asks for pick so many characters to add and such, but even without mentioning Echoes, people are still adding characters like Impa, Shadow, Isabell, etc as Echoes.

Why?

Given the chance, wouldn't you want a character to be unique?

Sure, shadow can be an echo, but he's got just as much potential at being unique too, you know. I mean, Im not really gunning for the guy, but he runs completely differently than sonic (he skates instead of runs), so his movement animation is actually totally different. Not to mention he uses Chaos abilities as opposed to sonic simply spin dashing everything. They share alot, but they also don't, so given the chance, why would you want him, or any of these others, as echoes unless the 'game' specifically demands Echoes?

I kind of feel like we've gotten so accepting of the term and existence of Echoes that we're adding them freely without even wanting said characters to be unique. If thats the case, then how much do you actually care about those characters if you're fine with them simply being clones?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm seeing quite a bunch of Crono fans here, at least more than usual. Maybe I should make a thread for him later, there doesn't seem to be one at the moment. Don't think he'd be likely for the base game but if we get Smash Ballot Round 2 it'll be the time to campaign for him.

 

[MainJPW]

It'd be great if Nintendo introduced Mario's father

Um, you forgot to add “and Luigi’s”—

 

[Deleted member]

Um, you forgot to add “and Luigi’s”—

That falls under the umbrella of "Mario" considering he's Green Mario.

 

[Zinith]

Hey, so here's a question for everyone. A lot of these 'Games' we're playing asks for pick so many characters to add and such, but even without mentioning Echoes, people are still adding characters like Impa, Shadow, Isabell, etc as Echoes. Why? Given the chance, would you want a character to be unique?

Sure, shadow can be an echo, but he's got just as much potential at being unique too, you know. I mean, Im not really gunning for the guy, but he runs completely differently than sonic (he skates instead of runs), so his movement animation is actually totally different. Not to mention he uses Chaos abilities as opposed to sonic simply spin dashing everything. They share alot, but they also don't, so given the chance, why would you want him, or any of these others, as echoes unless the 'game' specifically demands Echoes?

I kind of feel like we've gotten so accepting of the term and existence of Echoes that we're adding them freely without even wanting said characters to be unique. If thats the case, then how much do you actually care about those characters if you're fine with them simply being clones?

I've been wanting Boshi even BEFORE the Echoes designation. I knew he was only clone material, but as long as he SHOWED UP I'll be happy

 

[ExitWound]

Pre 1990: Ms. Pac-Man
early 90's: Funky Kong
late 90's: Chris Redfield
early 00's: Master Chief
late 00's: John Raimi (Geist)
early 10's: Dovahkiin

 

[Deleted member]

To chime in on Ninten; as someone who will vehemently say that EarthBound and MOTHER 3 are the greatest RPGs of all time (I'll even say that MOTHER 3 is better than both Xenoblade 1 and 2, Chrono Trigger AND EVEN EarthBound combined), I don't really want Ninten, even as an echo fighter of Ness. The base design just looks too similar to Ness, reminds me of just a "New York-version of Ness". And besides, what can he do that Ness can't? He's pretty much a pre-Ness before Ness existed.

EarthBound Zero/Beginnings, I feel, is already represented a great amount with the Magicant stage, so I feel just more god-like remixes and fanservice should do it, and that's how I feel that certain game should be getting, content-wise. But Ninten as a character? Nah.

 

[Luigi The President]

Hey, so here's a question for everyone. A lot of these 'Games' we're playing asks for pick so many characters to add and such, but even without mentioning Echoes, people are still adding characters like Impa, Shadow, Isabell, etc as Echoes.

Why?

Given the chance, wouldn't you want a character to be unique?

Sure, shadow can be an echo, but he's got just as much potential at being unique too, you know. I mean, Im not really gunning for the guy, but he runs completely differently than sonic (he skates instead of runs), so his movement animation is actually totally different. Not to mention he uses Chaos abilities as opposed to sonic simply spin dashing everything. They share alot, but they also don't, so given the chance, why would you want him, or any of these others, as echoes unless the 'game' specifically demands Echoes?

I kind of feel like we've gotten so accepting of the term and existence of Echoes that we're adding them freely without even wanting said characters to be unique. If thats the case, then how much do you actually care about those characters if you're fine with them simply being clones?

For some characters it really feels like the game is demanding Echoes, and I feel it's a bit rude to imply people don't care due to people wanting their favorites in as Echoes.

The fact of the matter is that Ken doesn't have a spot as a unique character in Smash and never will, compared to the other possible SF choices.
...but as an Echo he's PERFECT.

Shadow? He's got a lot of competition, he's never been a real front-runner.
But as an easy-to-make Echo? AWESOME.

Some sacrifices have gotta be taken to get these sorts in the game.

 

[Deleted member]

That falls under the umbrella of "Mario" considering he's Green Mario.

You mean Luigi Mario

For some characters it really feels like the game is demanding Echoes, and I feel it's a bit rude to imply people don't care due to people wanting their favorites in as Echoes.

The fact of the matter is that Ken doesn't have a spot as a unique character in Smash and never will, compared to the other possible SF choices.
...but as an Echo he's PERFECT.

Shadow? He's got a lot of competition, he's never been a real front-runner.
But as an easy-to-make Echo? AWESOME.

Some sacrifices have gotta be taken to get these sorts in the game.

In one sense, I understand. But on the other hand, they went and gave people like Captain Falcon, someone who isnt even seen outside his vehicle in his own game, a completely unique moveset. If demand and popularity is high enough, why not?

With Ken, yeah, he is literally player 2, so he's understandable as an Echo. But the others can just as easily be unique; they're not in the same boat as Ken, so I was just curious as to why it seemed everybody just seemed fine.

You say its rude to imply nobody cares, but beyond Shadow's chaos abilities (and mostly just mentioned for one sole move) I have never once seen anybody even offer a unique take on these characters in this thread. Now, to be fair, I've never ventured outside here, so for all I know, there are suppot threads detailing all the possibilities, thereby rendering my question moot, but as far as this thread goes, I havent seen any defense of the possible echoes as uniques.

EDIT: To be clear, I dont expect any of them, if added, to make it past being an echo either, I was just curious in the case of those who actively want them in.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Boring Five, here we go.

Geno - Chance: 90% - Not interested in him much since I never played Super Mario RPG, though some Brawl mods gave him a really fun and creative moveset that I'd love to dabble on. With that said, some stuff I said many pages ago make me think he's practically guaranteed.

Incineroar - Chance: 70% - Honestly the most likely Gen 7 rep if Sakurai has been informed of future plans for the anime. I mean, the guy got two anime episodes, a whole movie, tons of merch and that's not even mentionning Ash getting a Litten. Only competition would be Dusk Lycanroc, and I feel timing is more on the favor of the wrestling kitty.

Isaac - Chance: 50% - He's got a decent amount of fan demand and we've yet to get someone who plays like he does. I'd say his chances are decent.

Skull Kid - Chance: 70% - The most iconic Zelda villain after Ganondorf, he's a pretty popular one in both the Zelda and Smash franchises. The timing of the Majora Mask remake is also in his favor. I'd even bet he's literally the next reveal we'll see (not counting Echoes).

Banjo-Kazooie - Chance: 10% - While the timing of the Minecraft Wii U version is literally perfect (December 2015), I don't think this'll happen for the base game, especially since Cross-Play wasn't a thing until the Switch came out. I could see him be one of the hype bombs for DLC, however.

Since I literally played none of these characters' games (I really should try Majora Mask tho), I'm not gonna bother with "want" percentages.

 

[KMDP]

Um, you forgot to add “and Luigi’s”—

Had Mario in my mind, whoops. XD

Since Luigi is clearly the forgotten child. I wonder if Mario and Luigi have a younger sibling (making Luigi the "forgotten middle child").

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Super Mario series
8/29 Fighter: Peach
8/28 Stage: New Donk City Hall
7/24 Stage: Princess Peach's Castle
7/18 Fighter: Bowser Jr.
6/18 Fighter: Mario
6/14 Fighter: Daisy
6/13 Item: Launch Star

Yoshi series
8/28 Music: Yoshi's New Island - Main Theme

Earthbound series
8/26 Fighter: Ness

Castlevania series
8/23 Item: Alucard Assist Trophy
8/14 Stage: Dracula's Castle
8/12 Fighter: Richter
8/8 Fighter: Simon Belmont
8/8 Music: Bloody Tears / Monster Dance
8/8 Video: Vampire Killer

Duck Hunt series
8/22 Fighter: Duck Hunt

Pokémon series
8/21 Item: Togedamaru
8/13 Item: Abra
7/29 Fighter: Jigglypuff
7/19 Item: Bewear
7/15 Fighter: Pichu
7/10 Item: Alolan Raichu
7/5 Fighter: Pokémon Trainer
6/27 Item: Lunala
6/26 Item: Solgaleo
6/14 Item: Alolan Vulpix

Fire Emblem series
8/21 Music: Gear Up For...
8/15 Fighter: Chrom
7/8 Fighter: Marth
6/24 Fighter: Corrin

Kid Icarus series
8/20 Fighter: Dark Pit
7/12 Fighter: Pit

Animal Crossing series
8/19 Fighter: Villager

Metroid series
8/16 Fighter: Dark Samus
8/5 Fighter: Samus
6/13 Fighter: Ridley
6/12 Music: Brinstar Depths
6/12 Video: A Piercing Screech

Donkey Kong series
8/14 Music: Gang-plank Galleon
8/8 Fighter: King K. Rool
8/8 Video: The Rivals
7/3 Stage: Kongo Falls
6/28 Fighter: Donkey Kong

WarioWare series
8/1 Fighter: Wario

Star Fox series
7/31 Stage: Lylat Cruise
7/4 Item: Krystal Assist Trophy
7/2 Fighter: Falco

F-Zero series
7/26 Fighter: Captain Falcon
7/24 Music: F-Zero Medley

R.O.B. series
7/25 Fighter: R.O.B.

Legend of Zelda series
7/23 Stage: Great Plateau Tower
7/4 Fighter: Young Link
6/20 Fighter: Link
6/12 Music: Main Theme

Mii series
7/22 Fighter: Mii Fighter (Brawler/Swordfighter/Gunner)

Mega Man series
7/17 Stage: Wily Castle
7/11 Fighter: Mega Man
7/10 Music: Mega Man 4 Medley

Metal Gear Solid series
7/17 Music: Snake Eater
6/25 Fighter: Snake

Splatoon series
7/16 Stage: Moray Towers
6/19 Music: Bomb Rush Blush
6/12 Item: Squid Sisters Assist Trophy
6/12 Fighter: Inkling

Kirby series
7/9 Fighter: Kirby
7/3 Music: City Trial

Sonic the Hedgehog
7/1 Item: Knuckles the Echidna Assist Trophy
7/1 Fighter: Sonic the Hedgehog

Ice Climber series
6/21 Fighter: Ice Climbers

Misc. series
8/27 Item: Rathalos Assist Trophy
8/6 Item: Bomber
8/2 Item: Rodin Assist Trophy*
7/31 Music: Galaga Medley
7/31 Item: Fake Smash Ball
6/26 Item: Sukapon Assist Trophy
6/26 Music: Noisy Notebook
6/19 Item: Bomberman Assist Trophy
6/18 Item: Black Hole
6/18 Stage: Battlefield
6/12 Music: Vega Stage*

Missing series
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikmin
Punch-Out!!
Wii Fit
Xenoblade
Pac-Man
Street Fighter*
Final Fantasy
Bayonetta*

*The site doesn't have categories for the Street Fighter and Bayonetta series despite the blog already featuring Vega Stage and Rodin.

 

[StormC]

Hey, so here's a question for everyone. A lot of these 'Games' we're playing asks for pick so many characters to add and such, but even without mentioning Echoes, people are still adding characters like Impa, Shadow, Isabell, etc as Echoes.

Why?

Given the chance, wouldn't you want a character to be unique?

Sure, shadow can be an echo, but he's got just as much potential at being unique too, you know. I mean, Im not really gunning for the guy, but he runs completely differently than sonic (he skates instead of runs), so his movement animation is actually totally different. Not to mention he uses Chaos abilities as opposed to sonic simply spin dashing everything. They share alot, but they also don't, so given the chance, why would you want him, or any of these others, as echoes unless the 'game' specifically demands Echoes?

I kind of feel like we've gotten so accepting of the term and existence of Echoes that we're adding them freely without even wanting said characters to be unique. If thats the case, then how much do you actually care about those characters if you're fine with them simply being clones?

I love Zack Fair as a character, he's probably my favorite Final Fantasy protagonist, but he absolutely does not warrant taking up development time and resources to be a unique fighter. There are far more important characters that need that love. He and Cloud are meant to be mirror reflections of each other, so thematically, being an echo would make sense, and is probably the only way he is going to get in the game, at least without hella disrupting things.

I think insinuating that fans who want echoes don't actually care that much about the characters is kind of dumb.

 

[Honest Slug]

Hey, so here's a question for everyone. A lot of these 'Games' we're playing asks for pick so many characters to add and such, but even without mentioning Echoes, people are still adding characters like Impa, Shadow, Isabell, etc as Echoes.

Why?

Given the chance, wouldn't you want a character to be unique?

Sure, shadow can be an echo, but he's got just as much potential at being unique too, you know. I mean, Im not really gunning for the guy, but he runs completely differently than sonic (he skates instead of runs), so his movement animation is actually totally different. Not to mention he uses Chaos abilities as opposed to sonic simply spin dashing everything. They share alot, but they also don't, so given the chance, why would you want him, or any of these others, as echoes unless the 'game' specifically demands Echoes?

I kind of feel like we've gotten so accepting of the term and existence of Echoes that we're adding them freely without even wanting said characters to be unique. If thats the case, then how much do you actually care about those characters if you're fine with them simply being clones?

Because there's some characters that just wouldn't make it if they weren't echoes. It's not like the removal of an echo would make a unique character. There's some characters that are more appealing to be unique characters because well... they're more unique. The echo moniker throws a bone to characters that can still work being modeled after another. Dark Samus and Richter certainly wouldn't have made it in otherwise.

 

[Deleted member]

You mean Luigi Mario

"There's three. It's Mario Mario and Luigi Mario."

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I just think the idea of a guy riding a bike around the battlefield would be awesome.

Like in Unexcite bike? WA!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Everyone says Sans should be Ness' Echo.

I disagree.

It should be Steven Unive- *shot by hatedom*

Nah, that would stifle Sans' ZA WARUDO potential.

Had Mario in my mind, whoops. XD

Since Luigi is clearly the forgotten child. I wonder if Mario and Luigi have a younger sibling (making Luigi the "forgotten middle child").

It could be Stanley, of course, he's got no mustache. Yet he's even less remembered...

 

[Idon]

Hey, so here's a question for everyone. A lot of these 'Games' we're playing asks for pick so many characters to add and such, but even without mentioning Echoes, people are still adding characters like Impa, Shadow, Isabell, etc as Echoes.

Why?

Given the chance, wouldn't you want a character to be unique?

Sure, shadow can be an echo, but he's got just as much potential at being unique too, you know. I mean, Im not really gunning for the guy, but he runs completely differently than sonic (he skates instead of runs), so his movement animation is actually totally different. Not to mention he uses Chaos abilities as opposed to sonic simply spin dashing everything. They share alot, but they also don't, so given the chance, why would you want him, or any of these others, as echoes unless the 'game' specifically demands Echoes?

I kind of feel like we've gotten so accepting of the term and existence of Echoes that we're adding them freely without even wanting said characters to be unique. If thats the case, then how much do you actually care about those characters if you're fine with them simply being clones?

Everytime I see a request for an echo, all I hear is "I want my most wanted character to disregard their canon and play exactly like someone else, with little to no unique characteristics of their own!" Which I guess is fine if you have low standards.

 

[Deleted member]

"Character X would just be a clone of Y!" was always a common phrase used to shut down support for any character someone didn't like.
Echoes turn that around because now the most common way of ****ting on characters is actually a benefit to them, which is why they're being so well received.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I mean...Echo Fighters are still clones albeit with a fancy official name for people to finally accept them so...

H*ll, Chrom, Daisy, Dark Samus, etc probably would’ve still happened anyway lol.

But echoes are a different style of clone, if that makes any sense. They're minimalistic. While Melee clones tried to play at least a little differently and Brawl clones were barely even cloned, Smash 4 set the precedent of carbon-copy characters who take almost no extra balancing.

Heck, considering that Smash 4 didn't even include semi clones, I wouldn't be surprised if clone newcomers would have been a thing of the past had Sakurai not decided to upgrade Lucy and Pitto partway into 4's development.

 

[KMDP]

"Character X would just be a clone of Y!" was always a common phrase used to shut down support for any character someone didn't like.
Echoes turn that around because now the most common way of ****ting on characters is actually a benefit to them, which is why they're being so well received.

Amazing what a bit of marketing jargon can do.

 

[Deleted member]

I love Zack Fair as a character, he's probably my favorite Final Fantasy protagonist, but he absolutely does not warrant taking up development time and resources to be a unique fighter. There are far more important characters that need that love. He and Cloud are meant to be mirror reflections of each other, so thematically, being an echo would make sense, and is probably the only way he is going to get in the game, at least without hella disrupting things.

I think insinuating that fans who want echoes don't actually care that much about the characters is kind of dumb.

Fair enough...especially about Cloud. Ive replayed that game more times than I can count. If anything, Cloud is actually Zack's echo.

I didn't mean to sound insulting, I was just curious since I thought if somebody was just auto-regulating a character to being a clone instead of advocating for a unique moveset, then that character's importance must not be super high in that person's eyes; just more of a 'It'd be nice' sort of thing. But, there are a lot, like Zack or Ken, that are nothing but literal Echoes, so it makes sense in their shoes. And as someone else mentioned, there are others who are such longshots that being an Echo is there only chance, so I suppose their fans are taking what they can get.

Overall, I was just curious on the thoughts of the matter.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Number 1 character I want in Smash Bros(any title from Ultimate to Smash 2077)

Everytime I see a request for an echo, all I hear is "I want my most wanted character to disregard their canon and play exactly like someone else, with little to no unique characteristics of their own!" Which I guess is fine if you have low standards.

You dare overestimate the elevation of my standards?!

You have some nerve. K. Rool would have been a great Dedede echo and we all pretty much agree.

 

[StormC]

Everytime I see a request for an echo, all I hear is "I want my most wanted character to disregard their canon and play exactly like someone else, with little to no unique characteristics of their own!" Which I guess is fine if you have low standards.

All I hear is the strawman you've created just now.