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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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EnthusedPanda

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
365
If they were to add a Mario Kart rep (who isn't Waluigi or Daisy) who would it be? Maybe Lakitu? I can imagine him using his cloud a tad like how Bowser Jr uses the clown car. Maybe Birdo? Heck even a Koopa Troopa, really!
I thought I was the only one who conceptualized Lakitu ala Kart (enjoy the pun) as a great idea for a character. So much fun to brainstorm. He'd obviously be combined with the classic Lakitu elements + his stoplight, flags, fishing pole... there's not a fighter like that yet.
 

Zem-raj

Smash Hero
Joined
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Planet Urtraghus
Okay, here’s a game.

Sakurai is done with people complaining about over representation. He’s doing five new fire emblem, five new Pokémon, five new mario, five new Zelda, five New Kirby, three new f-zero, three new Kid Icarus. Got another franchise you want to over represent, add either 3 or 5 characters from them.

Aaaand name em
Five Fire Emblem:
Lyn
Chrom
Black Knight
Eirika
Celica

Five Pokémon:
Gardevoir
Genesect
Decidueye
Buzzwole
Zeraora

Five Super Mario:
Waluigi
Daisy
Fawful
Captain Toad
Pauline

Five The Legend of Zelda:
Impa
Ganon
Vaati
Prince Sidon
Linkle

Five Kirby:
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dark Matter (Sword form)
Adeleine
Magolor
Susie

Three F-Zero:
Black Shadow
Samurai Goroh
Jody Summer (I don't know...)

Three Kid Icarus:
Medusa
Hades
Viridi

Three Metroid:
Ridley
Dark Samus
Weavel (Space Pirate composite)

Edit: I think I might've misread and thought I could only pick one additional franchise. I'll add more Donkey Kong characters too:
King K.Rool
Dixie Kong
Cranky Kong
Funky Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
 
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AlphaSSB

Bring Back Star Fox
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Okay, here’s a game.

Sakurai is done with people complaining about over representation. He’s doing five new fire emblem, five new Pokémon, five new mario, five new Zelda, five New Kirby, three new f-zero, three new Kid Icarus. Got another franchise you want to over represent, add either 3 or 5 characters from them.

Aaaand name em
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong, King K. Rool, Funky Kong

Earthbound: Giygas, Masked Man, Kumatora

Fire Emblem: Lyn, Azura, Celica, Keaton, Chrom

F-Zero: Black Shadow, Samurai Goroh, James McCloud

Kid Icarus: Viridi, Medusa, Magnus

Kirby: Bandanna Dee, Marx, Dark Matter, Knuckle Joe, Prince Fluff

Metroid: Ridley, Sylux, Dark Samus

Pokémon: Sceptile, Zoroark, Decidueye, Blaziken, Blastoise

Star Fox: Krystal, Slippy, Peppy, Leon, Panther

Super Mario: Waluigi, Captain Toad, Paper Mario, Daisy, Geno

The Legend of Zelda: Midna, Impa, Ganon, Skull Kid, Tetra
 

mario123007

HELLO, YOU HAVE ENTERED THE DUNK ZONE
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I don't dislike pyra BECAUSE of her design, her design just makes me like her less and I already didn't like her because she's so bland, she's just a very boring character, especially compared to mythra who has some sass to her at least and her not really liking rex at the start makes for a much more interesting dynamic and relationship, plus they have some nice banter from it
I don't consider her boring just because she doesn't have a vivid personality. In fact, we don't really see a kind of character like Pyr when it comes to animes or even JRPGs, who is nice, kind, know how to fight, understand her position, and even knows how to cook.
Suppose Xenoblade 2 becomes an anime this year, then Pyra is definitely "The best girl of 2018".

I have mention this many times, when comes to the discussion that is only relevant to Xenoblade and not Smash Bros Switch, it is better to go to a Social or a Xenoblade specific thread. I would want to discuss that with you but ....

Whether Pyra is a good character or not isn't that relevant when it comes Smash Bros, sure she is popular but again the time is what matters the most. That's why I wasn never confident that Rex and Pyra or any XC2 character will be playable character in Smash Switch.

Go here: https://smashboards.com/posts/22036347/

And by ending this Xenoblade discussion here is something funny to share:
Edit: awkward the image too large for Smashboards to handle...
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Okay, here’s a game.

Sakurai is done with people complaining about over representation. He’s doing five new fire emblem, five new Pokémon, five new mario, five new Zelda, five New Kirby, three new f-zero, three new Kid Icarus. Got another franchise you want to over represent, add either 3 or 5 characters from them.

Aaaand name em
Fire Emblem: Lyn, Chrom, Azura, Reinhardt, Celica
Kid Icaurs: Viridi, Hades, Medusa
F-Zero: Black Shadow, Goroh, Pico
Kirby: Bandanna Dee, Marx, Magalor, Knucke Joe, Dark Matter
Legend of Zelda: Minda, Daruk, Mipha, Revali and Urbosa.
Mario: Pauline, Captain Toad, Waluigi, Geno, Paper Mario
Pokémon: Decidueye, Incineroar, Tapu Koko, Sceptile, Buzzwole
Xenoblade Chronicles: Pyra / Rex, Mythra, Elma
 

Megadoomer

Moderator
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Messages
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SW-0351-1523-9047
Hey all this is a little wish list of my hopes and dreams for smash on the switch, a little disclaimer, this is my opinion. if you disagree feel free to tell me why. enjoy https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QHYi7susI2uuWET0k5FPPd3sh0PHCBqPNqbjBB8jLLc/edit
I can't really see Palutena being cut (aside from being a unique character, the series is named after her in Japan - it would be like cutting Zelda), and in general, that list of cuts seems quite long. (I understand thinking that someone like Dark Pit would be cut, but wanting that many characters removed when many of them are popular or unique just seems odd to me)

I do agree that there could/should be a mode like the end of Smash Tour, where each stock is a different character - that was the only worthwhile part of that mode.
 

FlareHabanero

Banned via Warnings
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New Jersey
Speaking of Palutena.

Hypothetically speaking, if custom moves were removed for all characters barring the Mii Fighters for customization purposes, how would they handle Palutena in particular? Her gimmick revolves around her custom moves all being different and referencing powers from Kid Icarus: Uprising.

Personally I would thing straying away from that gimmick to focus on polishing out the rest of her lackluster moves would be a benefit, similar to the removal of transformations. But I do not know how they would compensate for it.
 

MoonlitIllusion

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Location
England
Speaking of Palutena.

Hypothetically speaking, if custom moves were removed for all characters barring the Mii Fighters for customization purposes, how would they handle Palutena in particular? Her gimmick revolves around her custom moves all being different and referencing powers from Kid Icarus: Uprising.

Personally I would thing straying away from that gimmick to focus on polishing out the rest of her lackluster moves would be a benefit, similar to the removal of transformations. But I do not know how they would compensate for it.
Honestly I don't see custom moves going anywhere, I doubt they take much effort to begin with and they'd be cutting it for the sake of cutting it
 

blackghost

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
2,249
Speaking of Palutena.

Hypothetically speaking, if custom moves were removed for all characters barring the Mii Fighters for customization purposes, how would they handle Palutena in particular? Her gimmick revolves around her custom moves all being different and referencing powers from Kid Icarus: Uprising.

Personally I would thing straying away from that gimmick to focus on polishing out the rest of her lackluster moves would be a benefit, similar to the removal of transformations. But I do not know how they would compensate for it.
If they gave palutena virtually any other combination of specials she would benefit. Outside of neutral special she is seen to have recieved the worst one for each.
Change her tilts frame speed or animation as well and shes fine. Palutena doesnt need as much help as zelda or ganon.
 
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FlareHabanero

Banned via Warnings
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Honestly I don't see custom moves going anywhere, I doubt they take much effort to begin with and they'd be cutting it for the sake of cutting it
With a roster that is likely going to be 50+ again, I can see that happening.

For sake of example, each character have a total of 9 different moves they can choose from, counting the default specials too. With a roster that has 50 characters, that means in total there are over 450 moves to take into consideration. Because you can mix and match the custom moves, it's very easy to create game breaking combinations of moves. You can try and balance it as much as you can, but the sheer number of combinations possible means that no matter what you do, it's going to lead into major issues. There's a pretty good reason why custom moves in competitive play have been abandoned altogether despite the pushes for it early in it's life.

I would not be surprised if the DLC characters not having custom moves at all was an intentional decision because of this balance problem.
 
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NintenRob

Rising YouTuber
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Over representing stuff ehh?
5 to every thing! Also I'm just pretending everyone is back on top of this

Mario: Captain Toad, Waluigi, Daisy, King Boo, Pauline
Donkey Kong: K Rool, Dixie, Cranky, Funky, Lanky
Zelda: SKULL KID, Midna, Ghirahim, Impa, Ravio
Metroid: Ridley, Dark Samus, Sylux, Rundas, Meta Ridley
Yoshi: Kamek, Baby Bros, Poochy, Baby Princesses (trio, technically only one could count as Yoshi but whatever) Yarn Yoshi
Kirby: Bandana Dee, Daroach, Dark Matter, Magolor, Susie
Star Fox: Slippy, Peppy, Krystal, Andross, Leon
Pokemon: Decidueye, Sceptile, Genesect, Togepi, Hawlucha
F-Zero: Samurai Goroh, Black Shadow, Dr Stewart, Pico, Jody Summer
Earthbound: Ninten, Porky, Jeff, Masked Man, Giygas
Retro: Parabo and Satebo, Excite Biker, Takamaru, Balloon Fighter, Urban Champion
Fire Emblem: Lyn, Chrom, Lissa, Eliwood, Leif
Wario: Syrup, Ashley, Jimmy, 9-Volt, Mona
Kid Icarus: Medusa, Hades, Viridi, Magnus, Pandora
Pikmin: Alph, Brittany, Charlie, Louie, Plasm Wraith
Third Party: Rayman, Bomberman, Crash, Spyro, Lara Croft
Animal Crossing: Tom Nook, Isabelle, KK Slider, Blathers, Mr Resetti
Wii Fit: Male Trainer, Balance Board, Wii Fit Dog, Female Trainer U, Male Trainer U........ (I really had to stretch here)
Punch Out: Sandman, King Hippo, Bald Bull, Doc Louis, Super Macho Man
Xenoblade: Rex & Pyra, Elma, Riki, Kin, Morag and Brighid
Splatoon: Callie, Marie, DJ Octavio, Octoling, Just Marina
Arms: Spring Man, Min Min, Twintelle, Helix, Byte and Barq
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
23,677
I would not be surprised if the DLC characters not having custom moves at all was an intentional decision because of this balance problem.
I think time constraints were also a factor, too.

What I don't understand about competitive games, why did they banned Mii Fighters and Palutena's moves, alongside with everyone's. They were unlocked from the start, and obviously more restricted.
 

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
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Messages
9,547
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On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
Regardless of whether or not customs return, Sakurai should really give Palutena a different combination of moves.

I still don't understand why they thought it was a good idea to give her both Reflect and Counter in the base moveset.
 

Dr. Jojo Phantasma

The Chessmaster
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,079
Mario: Waluigi, Captain Toad, Daisy, Geno,
Zelda: Midna, Impa, Skull Kid, Ghirahim, Urbosa
Pokemon: Decidueye, Gardevoir, Mimikyu, Primarina
Fire Emblem: Azura, Lyn, Celica, Tiki, Hector
Donkey Kong: K. Rool, Dixie, Funky
Wario: Ashley, Mona, 9-volt
Kirby: Bandana Dee, Susie, Marx, Dark Matter
Xenoblade: Rex and Pyra, Elma, Zeke and Pandora, Morag and Brighid
 

Staarih

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
3,138
Location
Finland
I love Palutena (her design is amazing) but playing as her just isn’t fun at all. Some fixing would definitely be welcome, even just a rearranged default moveset would do.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
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Mushroom Kingdom
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TPitch5
3DS FC
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Honestly I don't see custom moves going anywhere, I doubt they take much effort to begin with and they'd be cutting it for the sake of cutting it
Also, most of them do use the same animations as the default special moves. Palutena and the Miis are the only real exceptions, while Ganondorf uses a different animation for Warlock Blade (which surprisingly has less animation frames).
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
23,677
I know this probably has been asked but: If you could add two (or three) newcomers that can transform into each other, who they would be? They can be same character like Zelda and Sheik or a tag team like Pokemon Trainer.


I know we can generally agree on they were a bit too impractical and probably shouldn't return, this is just hypothetical.
 

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
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Messages
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On a planet far far away...
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2166-0541-5238
I know this probably has been asked but: If you could add two (or three) newcomers that can transform into each other, who they would be? They can be same character like Zelda and Sheik or a tag team like Pokemon Trainer.


I know we can generally agree on they were a bit too impractical and probably shouldn't return, this is just hypothetical.
A Lycanroc that could somehow switch between its forms would be cool. I feel like all three forms could bring something unique to the table.

Even though they would probably make up the biggest mess of a character we've ever seen, maybe add the four Champions as a tag team character? It's not very practical this way, but it seems like a lot of people think a single Champion is unlikely. This would technically solve the problem.
 

DMTN

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
321
I know this probably has been asked but: If you could add two (or three) newcomers that can transform into each other, who they would be? They can be same character like Zelda and Sheik or a tag team like Pokemon Trainer.


I know we can generally agree on they were a bit too impractical and probably shouldn't return, this is just hypothetical.
I honestly think stance switching characters are the best solution to this. Multiple movesets without having to turn into a new character.

But to answer your question, here are some possibilities:
- Link and the Hero's Shade
- Pandora and Amazon Pandora
- Skull Kid and Majora
- Ganondorf and Ganon
- Tetra and Toon Zelda
- Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde
 

Antimatter042

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Messages
101
Okay, here’s a game.

Sakurai is done with people complaining about over representation. He’s doing five new fire emblem, five new Pokémon, five new mario, five new Zelda, five New Kirby, three new f-zero, three new Kid Icarus. Got another franchise you want to over represent, add either 3 or 5 characters from them.

Aaaand name em
5 new Mario:
Geno, Waluigi, Captain Toad, Paper Mario, Rabbid Luigi​
5 new Pokemon
Mimikyu, Dusk Lycanroc, Garchomp, Scizor, Gardevoir​
5 new Zelda
Ganon, Mipha, Revali, Skull Kid, Impa​
5 new Kirby
Bandana Waddle Dee, Marx, Magolor, Susie, Galacta Knight​
5 new Xenoblade
Fiora, Elma, Lao, Rex & Pyra, Zeke & Pandoria​
5 new Fire Emblem
Lucina (reworked with Gierskogul and new Falchion attacks to be essentially new), Azura, Hector, Celica, Kaze​
3 new Kid Icarus
Hades, Viridi, Magnus​
3 new F-Zero (just a bunch of names here, I have no ideas)
Black Shadow, Blood Falcon, Samurai Goroh​
 

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
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Still up Peach's dress.
Regardless of whether or not customs return, Sakurai should really give Palutena a different combination of moves.

I still don't understand why they thought it was a good idea to give her both Reflect and Counter in the base moveset.
This exactly. Most of my friends don't bother with custom moves(breaks the pick up and play nature of the game) so having to unlock them all to have a Palutena who is even mildly fun to play as is a real pain in the butt.
 

Kirby Dragons

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I know this probably has been asked but: If you could add two (or three) newcomers that can transform into each other, who they would be? They can be same character like Zelda and Sheik or a tag team like Pokemon Trainer.


I know we can generally agree on they were a bit too impractical and probably shouldn't return, this is just hypothetical.
I'd let Bowser Jr. transform into Shadow Mario.
 

Geno Boost

Smash Master
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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
Okay, here’s a game.

Sakurai is done with people complaining about over representation. He’s doing five new fire emblem, five new Pokémon, five new mario, five new Zelda, five New Kirby, three new f-zero, three new Kid Icarus. Got another franchise you want to over represent, add either 3 or 5 characters from them.

Aaaand name em
Welp I will try

Mario:
Geno
Waluigi
Daisy
Fawful
Captian Toad or Toad

Pokemon:
Grovyle (PMD)
Red (fighting on his own)
Tapu Koko
Suiciune
Diancie

Zelda:
Skull Kid
Ganon
Impa
Tingle
Morshu (would be the most surprising character ever)

Kirby:
Doroach
Gooey
Marx
Dark Matter
Nightmare

Fire emblem:
Black knight
Lyn
Hector
Celica
Sigurd

Kid Icarus:
Eggplant wizard
Medusa
Hades

F-zero:
Black shadow
Deathborn
Rick wheeler

Punch-out:
King hippo
Mr. Sandman
Doc Louise

Mother:
Ninten
Giegue
Porky

Yoshi:
Stork
Poochy
Kamek

Donkey kong:
King K. Rool
Dixie kong
Donkey kong jr.

Starfox:
Krystal
Slippy
Andross

Xenoblade:
Elma
Rex
Fiora

Animal crossing:
Isabelle
Mr. Resetti
K. K. Slider

Pikmin:
Plasm wrath
Louie
Brittany

Wario:
Captian syrup
Volt-9
Wanda

Metroid:
Ridley
Sylux
Dark Samus
 
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Krysco

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Hey! Someone actually made an interesting post while people are arguing about what's a clone and their ~~non~~ issue- Gotta answer that


Well the problem being that- Is that as much as Smash is a game crossover, and a Nintendo/Gaming celebration, no crossover get made "for the lulz" there an after though behind it. How many people started getting interested in others franchise thanks to it? Because of a characters they suddently liked and such-
The biggest exemple is well...you said so yourself, Fire Emblem in the USA.

People seems to forget about it, but in japan, Fire Emblem is older than Sonic. (1990) And Four Year Older than the Donkey Kong Country series. Seven Year older than Pokémon. AND ONLY Three year younger than Final Freaking Fantasy.

But for the US, we only know it since 2003, and the series got brought here only thanks to Smash and that "Advertisement". But was it really advertisement for the Japanease Public? Marth was the first Lord in the series, back in 1990 and Roy's Game was going out what? Three months Laters? And Started the first Renaissance of the Fire Emblem Series before Awakening.

Thanks to that Advertisement Fire Emblem go known Worldwide, however, I believe that the fact we know the series """only"" since 2003 make people bias and make them think it's a "young" series, when it's infact not.

Then I can also talk about the Third party, and how they also help for the advertisement in their own series.
So, Answer me that, is it strange for a Series that old to get 3 character + 1 clone (only counting base game) and getting as DLC a Smash and JAPANESE FE FANDOM fan favourite and in bonus the hot new MyUnit in the series? I dunno....Maybe yes- But I think DLC aren't stealing a spot to anyone, or anything, after all, they're just bonus and mostly after though. Remember that Sakurai wasn't even sure to sell Mewtwo Separatly.


People are pulling "Muh Sales" or "Muh representation" as A LOT of their arguments and main points for characters.
I sometimes feels people forget about the characters and gameplay itself and just want to have X series represented because Y series have more representation and don't like that.
I don't entirely feel the advertisement that is Roy in Melee is much of what got FE into the west. He helped, no doubt but Marth would've caught people's interest just fine I think, along with the music. Then with Corrin, I really don't feel it was needed at all. Awakening had already come out and blown up, getting people into FE. I feel Corrin ended up as more of a nuisance than as a beloved Smash character, not just for being an advertisement (outside of Japan anyways) but also for being another FE character. The series would've only had 3 characters in Sm4sh with Marth, Ike and Robin with Lucina as an alt ala Alph but then she got her own spot as a clone. Then Roy comes back and while they did more to make him different from Marth, he's clearly still based on him and people outside of Japan can't even play his game without resorting to acquiring Japanese hardware or relying on emulators or translated versions. Lastly, Corrin comes along, jumping the number of FE characters from the 4 (would be 3) all the way up to 6, being only one less than the core Mario series, the same as Pokemon and more than Zelda when I'm sure they could've just pulled another character from the ballot, ya know, another character that would've been what fans actually wanted. With that in mind, I do feel that Corrin took a spot from someone else. They felt like adding another character and they chose Corrin over anyone else. BotW was still in the making and Starfox Zero wasn't out yet so it's not like FE Fates was the only game that could be advertised.

Damage has been done though and now people will be constantly asking for fire Marth and boring dragon lords (in terms of character anyways, their playstyle is okay in Smash imo) for every future game.

As for third parties, I'm not actually sure and I'm too tired to check. Was a Sonic game coming out around the same time as Brawl? Pretty sure Rings in Hand was already out, not sure about Knight of the Wind. Guessing MGS4 was being made when Snake got in, may have already been out though given that at least one song from it was put into Brawl. Megaman was basically dead when he was put into Smash, no idea with Ryu, guessing Street Fighter V if it wasn't already out, most Cloud has is the FF VII remake that's still being worked on to this day, not sure about FF overall though. 15 was likely being made at the time. Bayo is purely due to Nintendo giving such a big **** about her series which is fine but were it not for Nintendo, she'd be in the same boat as Megaman just without the nostalgia.

Anyways, I've been up all night so this reply is likely a complete mess filled with fallacies or poorly made opinions. Guess it's not all bad since my post is standing out from more clone talk, will be fun to read when I catch up to this point. Amount of pages jumped by like 100 or so over a single night it feels like. The only thing I know that happened recently is Nintendo getting a new president, is there some big thing I missed recently? I saw a post mentioning that it's confirmed Smash 5 is a new game and where I've been catching up at page 922, it was confirmed that the Springman leak was fake.
 

Pazzo.

「Livin' On A Prayer」
Joined
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Messages
9,187
There's a slight possibility, however small, that Smash Switch is a port.

Which is overall fine, we're getting new characters, but I'd prefer a new game.
 

Deathcarter

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
1,358
I know this probably has been asked but: If you could add two (or three) newcomers that can transform into each other, who they would be? They can be same character like Zelda and Sheik or a tag team like Pokemon Trainer.


I know we can generally agree on they were a bit too impractical and probably shouldn't return, this is just hypothetical.
I'd genuinely like to see a Limit Break/Character Switch combo mechanic for Rex and Pyra. Instead of making the two diametrically opposed in terms of design, Pyra's simply designed to be plain better than Rex but you have to build a gauge as Rex before you can switch to Pyra. Ideally the gap in strength between the two would be manageable and you'd get to play as Pyra a fair amount of the time. Like 60/40 ratio for a random number.

I'd like to se this because this is the only way I see Pyra actually getting to be playable.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I'd genuinely like to see a Limit Break/Character Switch combo mechanic for Rex and Pyra. Instead of making the two diametrically opposed in terms of design, Pyra's simply designed to be plain better than Rex but you have to build a gauge as Rex before you can switch to Pyra. Ideally the gap in strength between the two would be manageable and you'd get to play as Pyra a fair amount of the time. Like 60/40 ratio for a random number.

I'd like to se this because this is the only way I see Pyra actually getting to be playable.
Different take on this but similar idea: assuming Rex & Pyra function as a duo character of sorts but with weapon passes and an affinity link, have Pyra transform into Mythra as a reward for reaching max affinity with a slight movement speed increase too. Outside of a potential Final Smash, this is the only way I can see Mythra being playable since she's just plain better than Pyra. Obviously the fire effects would be altered to be of the light element, but it'd also be cool if the Blade Specials in the moveset (I have stages 1-3 as Smash Attacks and stage 4 as a Final Smash) also changed to match whichever one was active.
 
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Roberk

Smash Champion
Joined
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I don't entirely feel the advertisement that is Roy in Melee is much of what got FE into the west. He helped, no doubt but Marth would've caught people's interest just fine I think, along with the music. Then with Corrin, I really don't feel it was needed at all. Awakening had already come out and blown up, getting people into FE. I feel Corrin ended up as more of a nuisance than as a beloved Smash character, not just for being an advertisement (outside of Japan anyways) but also for being another FE character. The series would've only had 3 characters in Sm4sh with Marth, Ike and Robin with Lucina as an alt ala Alph but then she got her own spot as a clone. Then Roy comes back and while they did more to make him different from Marth, he's clearly still based on him and people outside of Japan can't even play his game without resorting to acquiring Japanese hardware or relying on emulators or translated versions. Lastly, Corrin comes along, jumping the number of FE characters from the 4 (would be 3) all the way up to 6, being only one less than the core Mario series, the same as Pokemon and more than Zelda when I'm sure they could've just pulled another character from the ballot, ya know, another character that would've been what fans actually wanted. With that in mind, I do feel that Corrin took a spot from someone else. They felt like adding another character and they chose Corrin over anyone else. BotW was still in the making and Starfox Zero wasn't out yet so it's not like FE Fates was the only game that could be advertised.

Damage has been done though and now people will be constantly asking for fire Marth and boring dragon lords (in terms of character anyways, their playstyle is okay in Smash imo) for every future game.

As for third parties, I'm not actually sure and I'm too tired to check. Was a Sonic game coming out around the same time as Brawl? Pretty sure Rings in Hand was already out, not sure about Knight of the Wind. Guessing MGS4 was being made when Snake got in, may have already been out though given that at least one song from it was put into Brawl. Megaman was basically dead when he was put into Smash, no idea with Ryu, guessing Street Fighter V if it wasn't already out, most Cloud has is the FF VII remake that's still being worked on to this day, not sure about FF overall though. 15 was likely being made at the time. Bayo is purely due to Nintendo giving such a big **** about her series which is fine but were it not for Nintendo, she'd be in the same boat as Megaman just without the nostalgia.

Anyways, I've been up all night so this reply is likely a complete mess filled with fallacies or poorly made opinions. Guess it's not all bad since my post is standing out from more clone talk, will be fun to read when I catch up to this point. Amount of pages jumped by like 100 or so over a single night it feels like. The only thing I know that happened recently is Nintendo getting a new president, is there some big thing I missed recently? I saw a post mentioning that it's confirmed Smash 5 is a new game and where I've been catching up at page 922, it was confirmed that the Springman leak was fake.
We all hate Corrin, but I'm pretty sure their "spot" was intended to be a promotional charcter. What else in 2016 was worth promoting for Nintendo? The Wii U was dying, the Switch only being revealed in October, and Fates was the biggest thing for the 3ds that year. We don't like it, but for the role Corrin was filling, it makes sense.
 

Murlough

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Unpopular opinion: I actually like Palutena's base moveset. It could work too with some slight buffs here and there. Besides her customs are either busted or equally bad conpared to her base moves.

Remake her an ftilt and maybe uptilt, give her fair more knockback growth and make backair autocancelable. A slight buff to her airspeed would be fantastic too.

Her smashes are pretty weak as they are, I'd make the hitbox of upsmash and side smash consistent but lower the base knockback a tad. Downsmash is probably fine for what it is...maybe make it less slow? I dunno.

Her specials can work. Autoreticle should lock on much easier than it does. Maybe make it to where she still shoots three projectiles but each locks on seperately so depending on how the opponent moves the projectiles would cover more space.

Her reflect is fine. Counter needs buffs but does its job. Her warp is solid.

Make dash attack safe on block if spaced properly and cut off a few frames of endlag on it. Her dash could be really good but its too much of a commitment.

Just please do not give her the busted customs. They are a lot less funny when I have to take them seriously. -.-
 
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Cosmic77

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We all hate Corrin, but I'm pretty sure their "spot" was intended to be a promotional charcter. What else in 2016 was worth promoting for Nintendo? The Wii U was dying, the Switch only being revealed in October, and Fates was the biggest thing for the 3ds that year. We don't like it, but for the role Corrin was filling, it makes sense.
Solely from a promotional standpoint, Splatoon made a lot more sense. The franchise was extremely popular, and if Nintendo wanted to familiarize even more people with the Inklings/Splatoon, a new character in Smash would've been perfect.

However, I can see why Sakurai avoided them. Aside from the difficult ink mechanics that he'd have to program, the Inklings seemed like a fairly significant character that would be better suited to promote a brand new Smash game. They were way too big of a deal to waste in something small like DLC.
 

Pazzo.

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Will custom moves return? I feel like they should, but some improvements to how you collect them might be needed.

I'd also like more diversity like Palutena or Mii Fighter's customs for everyone.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Will custom moves return? I feel like they should, but some improvements to how you collect them might be needed.

I'd also like more diversity like Palutena or Mii Fighter's customs for everyone.
What I think should happen is that custom moves should not be on the same drop system as equipment and should be unlockables in and of themselves.

Even if we were to stick with the sometimes lacklustre move variants of 4, they should have set unlock requirements like, for example, Completing Classic Mode as Mario unlocks all the 2 variants and completing all star unlocks all the 3 variants.
 

ColietheGoalie

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Honestly I don't see custom moves going anywhere, I doubt they take much effort to begin with and they'd be cutting it for the sake of cutting it
They'd take a huge amount of effort! You're having to balance dozens of possible move combinations for each character.

Not to mention 90% of the moves were lame, they're banned in competitive and unintuitive for casual play, and unlocking them all was a hassle. No, I'm hoping they remove custom moves and put that development time towards something better.

We all hate Corrin, but I'm pretty sure their "spot" was intended to be a promotional charcter. What else in 2016 was worth promoting for Nintendo? The Wii U was dying, the Switch only being revealed in October, and Fates was the biggest thing for the 3ds that year. We don't like it, but for the role Corrin was filling, it makes sense.
I don't think everyone HATES Corrin. Sure, it was a letdown for the sunsetting of DLC, but with the perspective provided by a couple years passing, the character itself has a neat design and is fun to play. I wouldn't mind if Corrin came back in 5.
 

Roberk

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Solely from a promotional standpoint, Splatoon made a lot more sense. The franchise was extremely popular, and if Nintendo wanted to familiarize even more people with the Inklings/Splatoon, a new character in Smash would've been perfect.

However, I can see why Sakurai avoided them. Aside from the difficult ink mechanics that he'd have to program, the Inklings seemed like a fairly significant character that would be better suited to promote a brand new Smash game. They were way too big of a deal to waste in something small like DLC.
Exactly, Splatoon was too good for promotion. Them being the first newcomers of a new games fits much better than tacking them onto Smash 4.
 

blackghost

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Regardless of whether or not customs return, Sakurai should really give Palutena a different combination of moves.

I still don't understand why they thought it was a good idea to give her both Reflect and Counter in the base moveset.
i get why. i just dont agree. i've said for years. we aren't the primary audience for smash. when you turn on the game it goes to for for all. in a devs mind two counters, a projectile, and a long range recovery makes a good free for all moveset.

i want custom moves ot return but just implement them better. should be able to choose the move as you choose them like in mortal kombat or a marvel assist. i dont agree that any of them are really broken. i watched glitch custom event. windkong doesn't make dk good it makes him a gimmick. dk still has the same problem. windkong dk still got picked apart by a good fox.
the moves give variety and they honestly are only currently implemented for hardcore players. casuals dont even know they are in the game.
selfishly i also want to see bayonetta custom moves. that would be fun.
 
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