Smash bros needs more girls? Why

[Capybara Gaming]

Curious, half the characters introduced so far can be either gender now, Villager and WFT with alt costumes and Greninja because it's a Pokemon.

Mustacheless female Mario confirmed?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Mustacheless female Mario confirmed?

What'cho got against women with mustaches?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

What'cho got against women with mustaches?

Whatchoo talkin' bout, Willis?


What do I have against them... besides the obvious?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Whatchoo talkin' bout, Willis?


What do I have against them... besides the obvious?

Many women cannot help it. Perhaps they deserve representation, too.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Many women cannot help it. Perhaps they deserve representation, too.

They invented this awesome invention.... I think it's called a razor

 

[pupNapoleon]

They invented this awesome invention.... I think it's called a razor

That is hiding who they are!

 

[Capybara Gaming]

That is hiding who they are!

A woman HAVING a mustache is hiding it already

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Discussion about bearded women? Not relevant nor important to me.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Discussion about bearded women? Not relevant nor important to me.

That is how I feel about this post I'm quoting.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

I'm confused by this. They cannot be wearing overt female clothing (a dress), but if they have something that you, specifically, associate with being male-garb, it isnt okay? What is a fair costume?
Sheik, also, has a giant braid, which is usually considered to be female. I think the assertion that any clothing needs to be one way or the other is in itself contrary to the inclusion of more female characters; they have to be represented by a strict series of female standards? I can understand the bow argument, but if we are getting too far in the other direction, the one that scorns historical garb because it seems 'male,' I think we are getting to an extreme spot of defining female as only one thing, which is just as bad as the bow argument to dictate.

I'm simply pointing out a fact. Like there is no playable female fighter in Smash Bros that doesn't match any of these four criteria. I am not against them wearing those garments or having those associations, nor do I think that them wearing those garments or having those associations defines them as a character, nor am I insinuating that them wearing those garments or having those associations is a bad thing.

Again, I was simply pointing it out. I just thought it was interesting, and that, perhaps by posting it, that other people would find it interesting.

Perhaps if I had posted that paragraph separate from everything else I posted, you would have understood what I was articulating better.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm simply pointing out a fact. Like there is no playable female fighter in Smash Bros that doesn't match any of these four criteria. I am not against them wearing those garments or having those associations, nor do I think that them wearing those garments or having those associations defines them as a character, nor am I insinuating that them wearing those garments or having those associations is a bad thing.

Again, I was simply pointing it out. I just thought it was interesting, and that, perhaps by posting it, that other people would find it interesting.

Perhaps if I had posted that paragraph separate from everything else I posted, you would have understood what I was articulating better.

Maybe. That post was just a lot like saying we need more letters between A and J, but it cant be a vowel (A, E, I) or have a long e sound (B, C, D, G), or be made of only three lines (F, H).
Plus, with the braid, does Sheik even really fit the stated criteria? Zero Suit Samus certainly does not; even Samus has a suit which would only fit the perceived idea of a womans curves.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I had time now. To Quote TVTropes itself: "Tropes are not cliches, tropes are not goo, tropes are not bad, tropes are TOOLS".

I know you meant no accusation but you draw huge generalizations, Rosalina is in charage of the Luma and Popo/Nana are equals in terms of all but wether the player or CPU is controlling them, not the traditional "female needs a male partner" thing you're referencing. Those tropes seem to cast a VERY wide net. Plus you give Palutena and Robin as "non-tropey" despite the fact the follow the Dress and Male counterparts ones you listed to the T.

All I'm saying is, word your point a little better.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Robin is an avatar character, as well, who comes in male versions.
Anna has a red dress.
I think that list should have sexualized bodies in it perhaps.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

I thought Savvy Stylist would be a GREAT inclusion but nooooo, she's too much like a certain kind of modern Girl with her texting and selfies and being a fashion model and running a successful business, a bloo bloo bloo.

No but really people have been clamoring for Ridley and K.Rool and others for years and they'd like to see them before seeing another interesting off-the-wall character.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

I had time now. To Quote TVTropes itself: "Tropes are not cliches, tropes are not goo, tropes are not bad, tropes are TOOLS".

I know you meant no accusation but you draw huge generalizations, Rosalina is in charage of the Luma and Popo/Nana are equals in terms of all but wether the player or CPU is controlling them, not the traditional "female needs a male partner" thing you're referencing. Those tropes seem to cast a VERY wide net. Plus you give Palutena and Robin as "non-tropey" despite the fact the follow the Dress and Male counterparts ones you listed to the T.

All I'm saying is, word your point a little better.

True, yeah. I forgot about Rosalina being in charge of the Luma. I was aware that Palutena and Medusa wear a dress and Robin has a male counterpart, I should have said I supported their inclusion despite that. My bad.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I did the pointless maths and, counting Sheik and Zamus as separate characters, on a total percentage basis, Smash 4 will have a better female ratio than Brawl, even if no further females are revealed. (assuming a roster size of 50 maximum)

 

[HugoBoss]

Well I keep seeing all this support for the inclusion of more female characters. Why? Characters should be based off their impact on a franchise or just Nintendo in general. People are making requests that shouldn't ever happen. Requests for Daisy? Why? Peach is super iconic because of the mario series so her getting in is inevitable but her moveset is stupid. Seriously, Toad? A fryingpan? That stupid butt dash thing? Its the most ridiculous moveset they could have made. And Daisy would be even worse, not to mention she is a side character who has hardly any relevance. People want Dixie Kong, ok so she was in some of the DKC games, what about K.Rool? the main villain of the series would be much more deserving of a third DKC rep then her. Not to mention DKC isn't a big franchise so adding more reps is going to be tougher. While on the topic of smaller franchises, Krystal. She made 3 appearances in the star fox series which already is a small series. The fact that Star Fox had 3 reps in Brawl absolutely blew my mind. If they get a 4th that would be awful considering how the Zelda franchise, which is much bigger, only has 3. I am not against female inclusion, but they should be characters that are iconic to the series and make a lasting mark on the players. When you say Mario, people think of the brothers fighting Bowser with Peach over his shoulder. Mention DK you probably get a thought of DK and Diddy going around together. Better female inclusions would be Lyn or a different fire emblem female, Mia from golden sun, or Medusa from KI. Discuss why certain female characters should or shouldn't be in the game. Or other good contenders that I skipped over.

Also reasoning for Medussa over Palutena. Well KI only has a few games, I feel it would be better to have a main antagonist to counter Pit rather then another protagonist.

Wow, I completely agree. I thought because of the misleading title this thread would be about why Smash needs more girls( since you know, they're the only possible additions to make the roster more unique, not different species or villains etc) but you brought up a great point.

 

[Erimir]

why Smash needs more girls( since you know, they're the only possible additions to make the roster more unique, not different species or villains etc)

That sarcastic comment is kinda dumb.

Females are half of the population. Villains, non-humans and females are not mutually exclusive and opposing groups. Having more female representation doesn't affect how they deal with anything else.

There are characters like Dixie Kong and Krystal that are female and non-human, Medusa who is female and a villain (also technically non-human), etc.

 

[SmasherMaster]

I thought Savvy Stylist would be a GREAT inclusion but nooooo, she's too much like a certain kind of modern Girl with her texting and selfies and being a fashion model and running a successful business, a bloo bloo bloo.

No but really people have been clamoring for Ridley and K.Rool and others for years and they'd like to see them before seeing another interesting off-the-wall character.

Looking at it sale wise. There are two types of characters that are usually added. The characters are usually aimed towards either casuals or the hardcore gamers.

Savvy Stylist does not apply to either of these groups.

The series is not large enough, so her inclusion would just make the casuals confused. They would not buy the game becuase of this character.

The hardcore would get enraged, much like they did with Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I'll say again what I already said here.

I don't think that Smash needs more girls. I think that, for a lot of existing series, a female character is the next logical choice.

We already got Rosalina, who is really in the spotlight lately in the Mario universe.
For Brawl, we had Dixie Kong planned. But I agree that K Rool is also a logical choice.
Still speaking of Brawl, we had Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik, who is believed to be a codename for Tetra. Now that transformations are gone, I think this increases Tetra chances greatly. Not to forget Impa.
Wario and Pit are surrounded by womens, so characters like Syrup and Mona for Wario, and Palutena and Medusa are logical choices too.
I'm not really into Fire Emblem, but it's seems that except for Chrom and Roy, a lot of characters request here are female (Anna, Lucina, Robin (be there's a male counterpart).
There's obviously Krystal.

So it makes seven series where a female is one of the most logical choice, according to me at least. I'm obviously not saying every series should get a female newcommer, I'm more for new series (but I want a Zelda newcommer badly)

And if we look into those unrepresented games, there's a lot of male to choose from, because there's simply a lot of male heroes. I personally think that one diversity Smash Bros needs is the diversity of games represented.

Now, of course, my signature is an absolute confession of my perversion of the fact I simply tend to like female characters more. But you can see that there's some game diversity too: Shooting games, adventure, party games, horror, text-based adventure, beat them all...

Diversity isn't simply a question of gender, or look. But also what the character can represent.

Looking at it sale wise. There are two types of characters that are usually added. The characters are usually aimed towards either casuals or the hardcore gamers.

Savvy Stylist does not apply to either of these groups.

The series is not large enough, so her inclusion would just make the casuals confused. They would not buy the game becuase of this character.

The hardcore would get enraged, much like they did with Wii Fit Trainer.

I'm a hardcore gamer, I loved Wii Fit Trainer since her debut trailer and I would love the Savvy Stylist

 

[SmasherMaster]

Either way, Nintendo should not be adding females because they need more females. I just need to point to two characters, Pink Gold Peach and Baby Rosalina.

 

[Glaciacott]

I'm not sure if it's been brought up in this thread, but there's another reason I want more females in Smash.

Usually as a female player, people give you so much crap if you use Peach or Sheik, because to some you're maintaining a stereotype, and then if you use a different character people give you crap because you're not using the female characters and "properly representing" your gender.
It's frankly extremely annoying, and I'm hoping that with a more sizeable cast of female smash characters this sort of badgering can take a step towards ending.

Also, regarding Savvy Stylist: Wii Fit was a wildly successful game that everyone knew about. People who never touched a game before knew about it. Savvy Stylist is something I never even heard about until I saw it here. Adding the savvy stylist would therefore be a horrible move because then it'd be the addition of a female character (with horrifically amplified female stereotypes) for the sake of the female demographic and not actually the principle of the game of having strong, well-recognized Nintendo characters. Especially seeing how there's so many awesome female characters you could add instead.

 

[ACDC]

I'm not sure if it's been brought up in this thread, but there's another reason I want more females in Smash.

Usually as a female player, people give you so much crap if you use Peach or Sheik, because to some you're maintaining a stereotype, and then if you use a different character people give you crap because you're not using the female characters and "properly representing" your gender.
It's frankly extremely annoying, and I'm hoping that with a more sizeable cast of female smash characters this sort of badgering can take a step towards ending.

Also, regarding Savvy Stylist: Wii Fit was a wildly successful game that everyone knew about. People who never touched a game before knew about it. Savvy Stylist is something I never even heard about until I saw it here. Adding the savvy stylist would therefore be a horrible move because then it'd be the addition of a female character (with horrifically amplified female stereotypes) for the sake of the female demographic and not actually the principle of the game of having strong, Nintendo characters. Especially seeing how there's so many awesome female characters you could add instead.

Well there always have been characters who's gender aren't very important such as Pikachu, Jigglypuff and Kirby right from the start

 

[Glaciacott]

Well there always have been characters who's gender aren't very important such as Pikachu, Jigglypuff and Kirby right from the start

Which adds to the absurdity of people giving you crap about which character you main and how well it aligns with your gender. Which for some reason a lot of people feel compelled to observe on when it comes to female smash players.

 

[ACDC]

Which adds to the absurdity of people giving you crap about which character you main and how well it aligns with your gender. Which for some reason a lot of people feel compelled to observe on when it comes to female smash players.

If someone gives you crap for using a character you like they aren't worth hanging out with. I have a guy friend who uses Peach and never had any problems with that

 

[Louie G.]

If someone gives you crap for using a character you like they aren't worth hanging out with. I have a guy friend who uses Peach and never had any problems with that

Yay, guys who main Peach!

I love how this thread is still around and about 1/5 of the roster is female now.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I'm not sure if it's been brought up in this thread, but there's another reason I want more females in Smash.

Usually as a female player, people give you so much crap if you use Peach or Sheik, because to some you're maintaining a stereotype, and then if you use a different character people give you crap because you're not using the female characters and "properly representing" your gender.
It's frankly extremely annoying, and I'm hoping that with a more sizeable cast of female smash characters this sort of badgering can take a step towards ending.

I somehow understand it, as people makes notice of me for playing females characters in... Well almost every games, despite being a male. And that's quite annoying sometimes, especially as a Zelda mainer.
Because you are a men doesn't mean that you have to go for strong stereotyped guys, and because you are a girl doesn't mean that you should play no less stereotypical females.

That's why I like Juri from Street Fighter for example (how convenient my avatar is ). Despite having a pink color scheme, we get out of the cute graceful female stereotype (but it's not on Bloody Roar's Mitsuko level, though ). She is quite destructive, too, something rare in female characters.

That's also why I like Dampierre in SoulCalibur, with his slim look, receding hair and cowardly attitude. Totally stands out, compared to other SC males.

 

[Glaciacott]

If someone gives you crap for using a character you like they aren't worth hanging out with. I have a guy friend who uses Peach and never had any problems with that

That's the thing though, it's a matter of the community itself. It's not about the people I hang out with or don't, it's more of the case that when you go to smash fests or tournaments, those comments are pretty much unavoidable. And if I wanted to avoid them, then you're pretty much asking for me to just stop being a part of the smash bros community.

And like you say, people don't have a problem with that. You're a guy? Using Jiggly? No ****s given. But they still feel compelled to tell me what character I should/shouldn't be using because I'm a girl.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Yep, I still have to figure out why videogaming is one everlasting bastion of machism.

I did had some comments on the fact I main Zelda, though. That was, if I recall well, during a little 2vs2 tournament where the other finalists played Metaknight and Ike "because they were the strongest", while we played Zelda, and my friend Samus (a girly team of low tiers. So the comments were tied to he character strength).
*** kicking by female characters ensued, and they were mad

 

[JaidynReiman]

Having more females is a good thing because its really annoying due to the lack of females in Smash Bros. But they shouldn't add a female character just for the sake of doing so. They should either be a main character, or a major secondary character of a franchise (after one of the main characters is added).

For example, in Advance Wars everyone always adds Andy because he's the primary character, but Advance Wars is slightly different. Andy is the main character, but Sami and Max are also part of that main trio for Advance Wars 1 and 2, and Sami continues to play a major role in Advance Wars Dual Strike. This is a case where I could see the female getting in over the technical main character, but mainly because Sami would fit better with a modern warfare fighting style than Andy would (assuming Snake is gone as well).

Another possible character is Lip, although its kinda unlikely at this point. She'd even represent her own franchise (something a female character doesn't do often in Nintendo).

The only female villain I can imagined making it into Smash Bros. is Medusa. At least of the ones I am aware of. Palutena is definitely the next choice from Kid Icarus, though.

Krystal from Star Fox would make sense, but Falco and Wolf are far more prominent characters and were chosen first.

Legend of Zelda? The next best choice is by far Impa.


But in other franchises, like Golden Sun. There's no logical reason to pick someone like Jenna over Isaac.

Jill from Drill Dozer? I heard it was fairly popular, I suppose its possible although I find it unlikely.


Basically, a female character shouldn't be picked just for the sake of adding female characters. They should have something else to support them over other characters.


Oh, and in regard to recent posts, I for one love playing as female characters. Unfortunately I haven't found one in Smash yet that I really love to play. In most MMO's I tend to create a female character, usually based on my OC (pictured in my Avatar).

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Jill from Drill Dozer? I heard it was fairly popular, I suppose its possible although I find it unlikely.

I think Jill can stay as an AT. I'm not against created movesets, and I lack knowledge about her, but a character that drill, drill and... Drill doesn't really sounds appealing.



Oh, and Sami is surely a special case. Heck, the whole Advance Wars serie is a special case. But it would almost makes sense to see Sami playable and Andy as an AT, commanding troops. (just an example, of course)

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think Jill can stay as an AT. I'm not against created movesets, and I lack knowledge about her, but a character that drill, drill and... Drill doesn't really sounds appealing.



Oh, and Sami is surely a special case. Heck, the whole Advance Wars serie is a special case. But it would almost makes sense to see Sami playable and Andy as an AT, commanding troops. (just an example, of course)

Even in the case of Sami, though, she's still one of the main 3 CO's so she's still a main character. Plus she's shown actually wielding weapons and she specializes in Infantry. I really think Sami would get in before Andy (perhaps having a slightly altered Snake moveset for those who liked Snake), but a minor CO certainly wouldn't be able to fill that gap.

Jill has been brought up a couple of times, but yeah, I highly doubt it, I think she'll just be an AT like before.

And created movesets aren't as big of a thing as most people think. After reviewing Smash history, the only characters I can see that applies to are Sheik (but she's still based on common ninja moves), Captain Falcon, and Fox. Captain Falcon's moveset is leftover from before the game was Smash Bros. and filled with Nintendo characters, and Fox's moves may have been as well, but several of them are clearly based on Star Fox like the reflector and blaster (the blaster isn't used specifically in early star fox games, but its based on the Arwing's blaster, and the Arwing's had reflectors as well if I recall).

 

[Erimir]

Either way, Nintendo should not be adding females because they need more females. I just need to point to two characters, Pink Gold Peach and Baby Rosalina.

Those were stupid choices, but if they had wanted more female characters they had other, better options.

Birdo and Dixie (probably Diddy would be in first) come to mind as better choices.

Anyway, I'd be ok with Pink Gold Peach... if she were just Gold Peach. At least she'd be no worse than Metal Mario, which I'm not a huge fan of either...

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Even in the case of Sami, though, she's still one of the main 3 CO's so she's still a main character. Plus she's shown actually wielding weapons and she specializes in Infantry. I really think Sami would get in before Andy (perhaps having a slightly altered Snake moveset for those who liked Snake), but a minor CO certainly wouldn't be able to fill that gap.

Jill has been brought up a couple of times, but yeah, I highly doubt it, I think she'll just be an AT like before.

And created movesets aren't as big of a thing as most people think. After reviewing Smash history, the only characters I can see that applies to are Sheik (but she's still based on common ninja moves), Captain Falcon, and Fox. Captain Falcon's moveset is leftover from before the game was Smash Bros. and filled with Nintendo characters, and Fox's moves may have been as well, but several of them are clearly based on Star Fox like the reflector and blaster (the blaster isn't used specifically in early star fox games, but its based on the Arwing's blaster, and the Arwing's had reflectors as well if I recall).

Yep, that's why Sami is a special case, as she is on the same level as Andy and Max, but is a fan favorite, a weapon weilder, and also one of the best Nintendo character to take Snakes moveset. More comical looking grenades doesn't seems like a big task to me. The main changes would be the recovery, I guess. And taunts, obviously.

On created movesets, we can also mention ROB, as he was a toy. But all thoses movesets are fine: Sheik is ninja themed, Falcon is super hero themed, and ROB is, well, Robot themed. Fox, like Marth, have only two original special moves (and for recovery, it's totally understandable).

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yep, that's why Sami is a special case, as she is on the same level as Andy and Max, but is a fan favorite, a weapon weilder, and also one of the best Nintendo character to take Snakes moveset. More comical looking grenades doesn't seems like a big task to me. The main changes would be the recovery, I guess. And taunts, obviously.

On created movesets, we can also mention ROB, as he was a toy. But all thoses movesets are fine: Sheik is ninja themed, Falcon is super hero themed, and ROB is, well, Robot themed. Fox, like Marth, have only two original special moves (and for recovery, it's totally understandable).

Well, with Sheik getting Snake's grenade, I could see Sami's moveset entirely revolving around a rocket launcher of some sort, keeping only two of Snake's special. For Sami's Up Special I could see it being maybe a jetpack or perhaps the weapon converts into a flame thrower she points downwards. Not sure about the grenade, perhaps something more from Advance Wars.

Anyway, yeah, I really think Sami has a pretty good chance of making it in, and she'd be a really different female character from what Smash usually has.

Another option is Krystal, and while she would be unique, I really doubt her inclusion. I don't think Star Fox would get three reps, and we already have the main Star Fox characters; Falco is Fox's right-hand man, partner, and kinda best friend, while Wolf is Fox's biggest rival. Krystal's moveset would be based on Fox's moves from Adventures, and so it'd definitely be unique, I just don't think they'd add a fourth Star Fox character (we'd be lucky to keep three) or have her replace Falco or Wolf.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well, Sheik's grenade seems to work differently from Snake's grenade, but we can't really tell.

And yeah, Sami would be a unique character. Damn, Advance Wars really didn't had the love it deserved in Brawl. I'm still dissapointed every time I see the assist trophy.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Well, Sheik's grenade seems to work differently from Snake's grenade, but we can't really tell.

And yeah, Sami would be a unique character. Damn, Advance Wars really didn't had the love it deserved in Brawl. I'm still dissapointed every time I see the assist trophy.

I think the AT was a decent representation of Advance Wars, but it definitely could use more love.

 

[Maraphy]

Having more females is a good thing because its really annoying due to the lack of females in Smash Bros. But they shouldn't add a female character just for the sake of doing so. They should either be a main character, or a major secondary character of a franchise (after one of the main characters is added).

For example, in Advance Wars everyone always adds Andy because he's the primary character, but Advance Wars is slightly different. Andy is the main character, but Sami and Max are also part of that main trio for Advance Wars 1 and 2, and Sami continues to play a major role in Advance Wars Dual Strike. This is a case where I could see the female getting in over the technical main character, but mainly because Sami would fit better with a modern warfare fighting style than Andy would (assuming Snake is gone as well).

Another possible character is Lip, although its kinda unlikely at this point. She'd even represent her own franchise (something a female character doesn't do often in Nintendo).

The only female villain I can imagined making it into Smash Bros. is Medusa. At least of the ones I am aware of. Palutena is definitely the next choice from Kid Icarus, though.

Krystal from Star Fox would make sense, but Falco and Wolf are far more prominent characters and were chosen first.

Legend of Zelda? The next best choice is by far Impa.


But in other franchises, like Golden Sun. There's no logical reason to pick someone like Jenna over Isaac.

Jill from Drill Dozer? I heard it was fairly popular, I suppose its possible although I find it unlikely.


Basically, a female character shouldn't be picked just for the sake of adding female characters. They should have something else to support them over other characters.


Oh, and in regard to recent posts, I for one love playing as female characters. Unfortunately I haven't found one in Smash yet that I really love to play. In most MMO's I tend to create a female character, usually based on my OC (pictured in my Avatar).

Yeah, honestly I think everyone (both the people rallying for more female characters, and the people who are saying 'don't add females for the sake of adding females!') actually agrees on the point that characters like Jill, and Jenna, etc shouldn't be added. What people do want, are the characters you mentioned such as Palutena, Medusa, Dixie Kong, Impa, etc, who are all important and logical choices and also female. People just happen to love those characters, and it's an added bonus that they'll bring more female representation to the series, which I'd say Brawl was lacking.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yeah, completely agreed on that. Dixie Kong I think is a bit questionable, unfortunately; I think K. Rool should get in first. But if we get two new reps (highly doubtful), sure, add Dixie Kong, I love both of them. Same with Kid Icarus.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Yep, Dixie have some serious competition with K.Rool.

But for other series, it's clearly the logical choice, especially Kid Icarus and Wario (does Wario deserves a newcommer? I hope so!)