Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[JOE!]

wait, gravity affects the caster too?

also, how can mewtwo be wild if he's man-made? he can catch pokemon, he could clearly teach himself stuff, or give himself TMs.

also @Ganonsburg:

i could care less if it's a "tables are turned" scene here for ganon, the fact that he is honestly unbeatable excpet for maybe tying with samus or ike should warrant that he not be bothered with, as all his matches will be filler, except for ike and samus, to his win count

 

[BSP]

I'm expecting Samus and Ike to be pwned instantly if Sonic was too.

@Viper

Fox has a Landmaster too, he'd be fine on the ground.

 

[REL38]

wait, gravity affects the caster too?

also, how can mewtwo be wild if he's man-made? he can catch pokemon, he could clearly teach himself stuff, or give himself TMs.

also @Ganonsburg:

i could care less if it's a "tables are turned" scene here for ganon, the fact that he is honestly unbeatable excpet for maybe tying with samus or ike should warrant that he not be bothered with, as all his matches will be filler, except for ike and samus, to his win count

Porygon is man-made.

But it's still wild if not caught :/

Mewtwo has never been shown go to people and "force" them to teach him stuff :/
Wild Pokemon can't do that.

According to the Pokemon Ranger stuffs, he can use TM's.

Beating Mewtwo wouldn't be difficult was it not for TM's :/


Concerning "Ganon wins all", that's hardly a justification to skip Ganon matches.
It just so happens he's got an almost unbeatable advantage against 90% of the cast.
It just sucks for those in the 90%

Heck, same can be said of Metaknight in Brawl . . . .

 

[_clinton]

Lasers I think would be special? We dunno though. Subsititue and Recover still would help Mewtwo a lot, and it isn't like he's that easy to kill, and that Fox is that strong. Mewtwo very well would be able to take a few lasers without any buffs.

Lasers aren’t special…how is a gun’s bullets mental strength?
Mewtwo’s defenses are 90 base…which isn’t bad…it’s just slightly average…so yeah he is going to be able to take a few…

Depends on how you look at it I guess...

You are aware that they mix things up sometimes right? Bowser has been faster than DK in one of them…and personally I don’t see how Bowser is slow in the 1st place

Well, Mario should be pretty "average". No mather how powerful he might get in his RPG games, no way it's possible for him to become stronger than the 3 main heavy weights DK, Wario and Bowser.

Mario has thrown a castle and has been said that he has super strength…sure it’s been seen that Wario/Bowser is stronger than him…Wario was in Super Mario 64 DS for example and it’s clear Wario is stronger than Mario (although I’ll admit that the game has some issues)…but I have yet to find a true game that shows DK is stronger

Well, that's true.

Yes it is ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXiAB_d3uqU
Look around 1.15. DK owns Ghastly King (the final boss) so badly.

A. In order for DK to beat Ghastly King…he smacks his head to bring him to the ground
B. I guess basic physics wouldn’t explain DK “Bowser throwing” him though…you might have a point after all…

No, I think DK has the advantage in speed, equipment, and fighting skill in general. Stamina to, cause he get's loads of "beats" in Jungle Beat. And Going Bananas of coarse.

Going Bananas is BS for the last time…
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperStar

You are aware that Wario according to Wario Land 2’s instruction manual is invincible and can’t be beaten right? But you don’t see me thinking that is true…

Oh and I like how you think DK has the advantage in speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jqKUQ7u1ko&feature=related
Wario can move pretty fast when “he wants to” (check out 8:13-9:00 for what Wario can do)

Oh and how does DK have the advantage in equipment? Wario is known for making stuff as well using various items…The best DK seems to have is a gun, orange grenades, and whatever barrels he can find…of course I’ll admit that DK64 is the last true DK game I’ve beat fully (I don’t care for King of Swing, Jungle Climber, Jungle Beat, Donkey Konga and such)

Diddy is weaker than Wario, no doubt. He beat Wario by tricking him eating a Orange Grenade btw.

Really…How did that work again?

He is, sort of... But still, he's doing some nice things in his games a normal ape wouldn't be able to do.

A “shockwave” you mean…

Chucky Kong yeah, but that's the only one.

Well various Krusha kremlings have been seen to be stronger as well…oh and Kiddy Kong rivals DK in strength as well…but I guess Kiddy is a special case…

I'm guessing then the Sniper Rifle would normally do also about 50% of damage to Mewtwo (minimally, just guessing) or something similar. Still, Mewtwo has the subs, and it isn't guaranteed Fox will survive when Mewtwo destroys his verhiles...

The Sniper Rifle works like it always does in shooter games…whoever controls it controls the map…

I like how you guys don’t get that fact…

With or without buffs, I think Mewtwo could OHKO Fox when he's on foot and has no barrier covering him.

Mewtwo/Ness/Lucas is a master of TK…what will stop him from just grabbing Fox and flinging him into a wall 50 times or so?

Fun fact people…psychic powers are ****ing broken…

Well, if you can convince the other people when the situation comes, sure.

How would they not be resistance to it? Please tell me…

If rings are a game mech, then shouldn't Sonic be able to go Super whenever he wants? (talking about Sonic 3 and Knux gameplay)

You know he needs to store up energy from them right?

Woo, party. My only thing is that if we follow this cutscene and say Sonic can be knocked out of SS, we follow them all, including the ones that show no limit on Super Sonic. I know you think it's infinite, this is aimed at everyone else

The chaos emeralds have no limit for energy…but they do have a limit at what they can do at a time (as in need to recharge) and something like the Master Emerald can control them and make them unable to perform…

So…where is Sonic’s Super Sonic form made from? The chaos emeralds…

But he's still under a lot of stress right?

Man…I wish you would stop thinking that Sonic’s super form can’t be broke…it can…

Ok, i see what you mean. They all have survived some pretty rough stuff. You should bring this up.

Fun fact…I did…people don’t seem to get it though…

psychic hurt again? Is it a wave of force, or something else?

It’s TK

How fast is M2? If he can teleport to dodge Fox's blasts, then slowly weaken the vehicle (or fox on foot) with psychic attacks, he could win.

Mewtwo is ****ing fast…

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/stat/speed.shtml

In fact…why don’t you try looking at Mewtwo’s stats in general and see how he compares to his other pokemon?

It´s obvious that Ganon hadn´t his full power aka Triforce of Power. My proof is that he was simply dead. If he had the ToP he would be immortal and it wouldn´t be necessary to revive him.

Dude...in the very 1st Zelda game he had the triforce part as well and still died...in LttP he had the whole thing (somehow) and still died...

Ganondorf is the most powerful character here.
Why don´t we give him credits for that?

Yeah...no Ganondorf is hardly the most powerful character here...him having 1/3rd of a power that isn't even his is just part of the proof...

-7 of the Mario characters have enough power put together to **** with the universe...
-Too many people think Zelda is the only thing dealing with god stuff in this topic
-Samus is the final product of a race of people who did god things like make life...
-Pit beats a foe that beat a Greek god...
-Kirby has beat demon gods
-MK happens to be packing a "holy sword" or 2
-Fox killed a person who became a god with help from Falco
-Captain Falcon defies the will of "the creators" when they wanted to make him into a monster (he has a huge list of things he did as well besides that) Falcon is clearly better than his dad in case you people don't get that ^_^
-"Pokemon trainer" has dealt with gods
-Mewtwo's power rivals various pokemon gods
-Marth and Ike are packing back-up from god stuff (BTW Marth is by far better)
-Ness/Lucas have will over the universe just by themselves in the end...
-Snake is a clone of a super solider who was a one man army...
-Sonic beat a god by fighting "fire with fire" (as in Chaos and how he has control over the emeralds)

Porygon is man-made.
Mewtwo has never been shown go to people and "force" them to teach him stuff :/
Wild Pokemon can't do that.

Are you aware of his back story? Also I wish you people would stop thinking Mewtwo can't use something just because it is human taught...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitler4e1mm02?from=Main.ScrewTheRulesIHavePlot

 

[BSP]

@ Clinton

Well, no one seems to believe most of your posts, just saying. Look at what Missingno said, that's what I mean.

He doesn't have to store ring energy for Super Sonic. Just look at pretty much any final boss.

When have the emeralds had to re charge mid-fight? I'm not buying the "something like that master emerald can control them". I admit that the energy can be drained from the emeralds and used, rendering the emeralds useless, but nothing else has been shown to control them like the ME does. IDK I think the "something like the ME can control them" is going more into theory then proof.

Sonic can be knocked out of Super Sonic, happy? But I don't get how the egg tank can do it, but robots/conditions/Gods can't.

back to the matchup

If M2 is really fast, he could probably beat Fox IMO.

And clinton, where are you getting Ness and Lucas are masters of TK from? I looked up TK and I got redirected to PK, can someone explain the difference? I see where you got that "PK is an umbrella term" from, but the fact is that if Ness/Lucas don't do it ingame, we can't assume that they can do it here.

 

[missingnomaster]

Lol at _clinton trying to apply Earthbound mechanics to the whole entire thread.
Flamethrower isn't mental strength and yet it's quite clearly a special attack, rather than physical...

And then on top of that, he starts saying we should allow Mewtwo to do what he does in the anime.

Hey _clinton, you ever wonder why there's only 2 or 3 people that respond to your posts?

 

[PowerBomb]

wait, gravity affects the caster too?

also, how can mewtwo be wild if he's man-made? he can catch pokemon, he could clearly teach himself stuff, or give himself TMs.

also @Ganonsburg:

i could care less if it's a "tables are turned" scene here for ganon, the fact that he is honestly unbeatable excpet for maybe tying with samus or ike should warrant that he not be bothered with, as all his matches will be filler, except for ike and samus, to his win count

Mewtwo can't catch Pokemon. That's movie BS. Gravity is a field effect, it affects everything.

 

[_clinton]

He doesn't have to store ring energy for Super Sonic. Just look at pretty much any final boss.

Final Boss in Sonic Heroes...he needed time to store energy so the other 3 teams had to distract Metal Sonic...he doesn't always just become Super Sonic...hell the energy had to be restored in Sonic Adventure using "positive thoughts"

When have the emeralds had to re charge mid-fight? I'm not buying the "something like that master emerald can control them". I admit that the energy can be drained from the emeralds and used, rendering the emeralds useless, but nothing else has been shown to control them like the ME does. IDK I think the "something like the ME can control them" is going more into theory then proof.

You are aware that all you are doing right now is saying "only Link can defeat Ganon," "Ike's blessing makes him immune to everything other than the same blessing" BS that others are doing...but those others seem to fail at getting that Zelda=/=Mario so of course they are going to have their canon worded differently...

Are you aware of that?

Sonic can be knocked out of Super Sonic, happy? But I don't get how the egg tank can do it, but robots/conditions/Gods can't.

You are aware that there was a difference again between what Sonic was trying to do again with these situations right? Protect vs. Offense

And clinton, where are you getting Ness and Lucas are masters of TK from? I looked up TK and I got redirected to PK, can someone explain the difference? I see where you got that "PK is an umbrella term" from, but the fact is that if Ness/Lucas don't do it ingame, we can't assume that they can do it here.

PK is an umbrella term and it clearly means that in EB...god just look at the 3 types:
Offensive PK
Recovery PK
Assist PK

How can you not get that it is clearly using an umbrella term with that?

Oh and Nintendo has stated that Ness is a master of PK in Melee's trophy description of him
http://www.mariowiki.com/Ness

Also...TK is a form of using PK...as in a sub part of it...

Lol at _clinton trying to apply Earthbound mechanics to the whole entire thread.

Excuse me…please tell me...How did I try and do that again?

Flamethrower isn't mental strength and yet it's quite clearly a special attack, rather than physical...

And Fire Punch is clearly a physical attack...btw have you looked at this?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitler4e1mm02

And then on top of that, he starts saying we should allow Mewtwo to do what he does in the anime.

Excuse me...but where did I say that?

 

[JOE!]

it effects the caster too, however?

anyways, what is stopping mewtwo from using psychic-goddam-powers to just kill Fox inside the landmaster?

also, @the dummy who said MK is the end-all be-all: he doesnt "pwn" everyone like ganon does here, he is quite beatable. Ganondorf in this thread is made out to be that the best you can do vs him is psuedo stall by him not being able to kill you, and thats it.

 

[PowerBomb]

it effects the caster too, however?

anyways, what is stopping mewtwo from using psychic-goddam-powers to just kill Fox inside the landmaster?

also, @the dummy who said MK is the end-all be-all: he doesnt "pwn" everyone like ganon does here, he is quite beatable. Ganondorf in this thread is made out to be that the best you can do vs him is psuedo stall by him not being able to kill you, and thats it.

Because Mewtwo never actually does that in his games. Not the ANIME, his GAMES. Look at the title. If this were 'oh, anime is allowed' then yeah, sure. The anime in Pokemon is pure BS, though.

Yeah, it affects the caster.

 

[_clinton]

anyways, what is stopping mewtwo from using psychic-goddam-powers to just kill Fox inside the landmaster?

Common sense...

he doesnt "pwn" everyone like ganon does here, he is quite beatable.

Ganondorf doesn't pwn everyone here though...he is quite beatable...

If this were 'oh, anime is allowed' then yeah, sure. The anime in Pokemon is pure BS, though.

No kidding...the pokemon in the games are by far better than what the anime shows...

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Joe, if Ganon wasn't a smash character, he wouldn't be here. But he happens to be a character in smash bros (who would have guess), so that's why he's here.

 

[the king of murder]

Dude...in the very 1st Zelda game he had the triforce part as well and still died...in LttP he had the whole thing (somehow) and still died...



Yeah...no Ganondorf is hardly the most powerful character here...him having 1/3rd of a power that isn't even his is just part of the proof...

-7 of the Mario characters have enough power put together to **** with the universe...
-Too many people think Zelda is the only thing dealing with god stuff in this topic
-Samus is the final product of a race of people who did god things like make life...
-Pit beats a foe that beat a Greek god...
-Kirby has beat demon gods
-MK happens to be packing a "holy sword" or 2
-Fox killed a person who became a god with help from Falco
-Captain Falcon defies the will of "the creators" when they wanted to make him into a monster (he has a huge list of things he did as well besides that) Falcon is clearly better than his dad in case you people don't get that ^_^
-"Pokemon trainer" has dealt with gods
-Mewtwo's power rivals various pokemon gods
-Marth and Ike are packing back-up from god stuff (BTW Marth is by far better)
-Ness/Lucas have will over the universe just by themselves in the end...
-Snake is a clone of a super solider who was a one man army...
-Sonic beat a god by fighting "fire with fire" (as in Chaos and how he has control over the emeralds)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitler4e1mm02?from=Main.ScrewTheRulesIHavePlot

You dont have to bring this long list up again. I know what they are capable of. Zelda is not the only game I play. Still Ganondorf has better abilitys and broken powers. But if you dont agree with me it´s fine because that is your opinion and I will respect that.

You know that Ganon was killed by the weapons that was designed to destroy evil which
were the only weapons that could harm him: Master Sword and Silver Arrows. Any weapon or attack that doesn´t repel evil is for Ganondorf a big joke. Also if you die you dont have the Triforce anymore. When Link traveled seven years back he had to leave the ToC in the Timeline causing it to split in eight pieces. And I said in my previous post that he maybe assembled the Triforce somehow before he died.

 

[JOE!]

@powerbomb:

by pokemon settings, wouldnt fighting Fox in a vehicle be like fighting 2 targets? Mewtwo could just target fox in the vehicle.

@clinton:

then why has nobody beat him yet/why is there nobody able to beat him?

@raizen:

im not arguing that he shouldnt be here, im arguing that he should be excluded as of now because every match he's in (after 5 rounds we should know all his stuff, or is it just ray calm spilling his earthquake punch abilities into here?) he should just auto-win


quick edit:

seeing as you guys are talking pokemon moves here, shouldnt HM moves be the only ones allowed, as they are the only ones in the games that effect other things than pokemon?

 

[PowerBomb]

@powerbomb:

by pokemon settings, wouldnt fighting Fox in a vehicle be like fighting 2 targets? Mewtwo could just target fox in the vehicle.

Arwing has shielding. If that were possible, Fox would've died extremely easy in his battles. Besides, the Arwing would constantly be out of range, like the move Fly.

@raizen:

im not arguing that he shouldnt be here, im arguing that he should be excluded as of now because every match he's in (after 5 rounds we should know all his stuff, or is it just ray calm spilling his earthquake punch abilities into here?) he should just auto-win


quick edit:

seeing as you guys are talking pokemon moves here, shouldnt HM moves be the only ones allowed, as they are the only ones in the games that effect other things than pokemon?

Let him get his fame, it's not very often for old Manondorf.

Pokemon moves have affected humans as well. Lance's D-night Hyper Beam'd someonen before.

 

[REL38]

You well know the analogy when i refered to MK n' Brawl , JOE.

"MK's too broken! No one can beat him! Let us ban him!"

:/

90% of Ganon's matches are practically 100-0
The other 10% are, at best, 50-50.

Still, that's no reason to exclude him from having matches.
Same reason why ROB n' GaymanWatch aren't kicked off.

They're part of the cast. No matter how broken (Ganon, Samus, Ike, etc.) or garbage (ROB, Gn'W, Olimar).

 

[JOE!]

ok, lemme put it this way then:

who would possibly beat or go even with ganondorf?

as it stands, he ***** everyone in this rather easily, and the fact that he is trash in braw isnt much excuse. Hell, it'd be even better to exclude him and put him on a god pedestol where others arent allowed to fight him due to his epicness.

the same kinda went for ike, he is invincible as long as is weapon isnt stolen/he is hit with a blessed weapon.

nobody ahs a blessed weapon

he beat the only guy who has the potential speed to steal it.

o_O

 

[Ganonsburg]

Yeah, but Clinton, none of those people have wishing combined with possession, invincibility, immortality, extensive magic(which can trap, attack, and various other things), unrivaled intelligence, unrivaled patience, unrivaled power, teleportation, and other things.

Wishing alone brings him above almost everyone. His immortality means that even if you make him incapable of moving (somehow), he won't die. You could take away the wishing while he's unable to move, and he can still possess you. No one else has such options. Sonic can ram into Ganon before he wishes, but that doesn't matter. He won't die, and he'll keep wishing. Or just possess.

The only problem is the three Links, which are losses for Ganon (Pretty sure).

 

[_clinton]

Still Ganondorf has better abilitys and broken powers.

So…when has Ganondorf bested some god/gods or became a god? I’m just wondering…

You know that Ganon was killed by the weapons that was designed to destroy evil which were the only weapons that could harm him:

Yes…I’m familiar with what the “holy” element is…and fun fact…Link isn’t the only one packing one on his stuff…

Also if you die you dont have the Triforce anymore.

Well I guess I can’t argue with that…so please explain to me how when he is alive again…he wouldn’t have it restored?

I mean…TP clearly shows that it can come along at whenever it wants…or is already with him anyway…

When Link traveled seven years back he had to leave the ToC in the Timeline causing it to split in eight pieces.

Actually…the reason Link left the ToC behind was by choice…from the script of Majora’s Mask (which btw that mask would beat Ganondorf IMO)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhEU7xjjPJY

“In the land of Hyrule, there echoes a legend. A legend held dearly by the Royal Family that tells of a boy…A boy who, after battling evil and saving Hyrule, crept away from the land that made him a legend…Done with the battles he once waged across time, he embarked on a journey. A secret and personal journey…A journey in search of a beloved and invaluable friend…A friend with whom he parted ways when he finally fulfilled his heroic destiny and took his place among legends…”

Link left everything behind on purpose…and because of that…the triforce part left him…

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/file/469050/23534

”That sacred piece is known as the Triforce of Courage. When
the Hero of Time was called to embark on another journey and left the land of
Hyrule, he was separated from the elements that made him a hero. It is said
that at that time, the Triforce of Courage was split into eight shards and
hidden throughout the land.”

Also…how can you say Ganondorf doesn’t have the triforce of power in OoA/OoS…when the only reason the guy became Ganon in the 1st place was with help from the ToP?

then why has nobody beat him yet/why is there nobody able to beat him?

Because he is over rated as hell...

Yeah, but Clinton, none of those people have wishing combined with possession, invincibility, immortality, extensive magic(which can trap, attack, and various other things), unrivaled intelligence, unrivaled patience, unrivaled power, teleportation, and other things.

The only reason Ganondorf has most of those things is because of abusing a power that in the 1st place he has no right to call his own...

Really w/o the power...the only thing I've seen him do is throw a simple energy ball...

Oh and I like how you think no one else has an unlimited life span...the beings that were linked to the power in Mother 3 were living off of it until it was removed...

You could take away the wishing while he's unable to move, and he can still possess you.

If you take away his wishing...you take away like 90% of his powers

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Btw, when Ganon's against another Zelda character, he only gets a 3rd of the Triforce (Power), since that only makes sense.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Clinton, that's where you're wrong.

The Triforce of Power & The complete Triforce is rightfully Ganon's.

The Triforce is on "earth" (as you may call it) for a reason. Someone has to obtain it, why else would it be there?

Ganon's been blessed with the power. It's his.

 

[_clinton]

The Triforce of Power & The complete Triforce is rightfully Ganon's.

Ah no...he was just the 1st person there...that is why he has it...and the complete triforce is hardly his...his soul isn't linked in all three parts of the triforce...

The Triforce is on "earth" (as you may call it) for a reason. Someone has to obtain it, why else would it be there?

Because the gods of Hyrule happen to love real life drama is my guess ^_^

Ganon's been blessed with the power. It's his.

Only until the gods want to take it away...and I'm not saying he wouldn't have it...I'm just saying that is where most of his power is from...and that plenty of other characters in this thread have powers like that or more...such has having their own powers that they can call theirs truly...

 

[Ganonsburg]

Btw, when Ganon's against another Zelda character, he only gets a 3rd of the Triforce (Power), since that only makes sense.

Makes sense. Not to mention there's not much discussing to be held as far as they go, considering they've been played out for us, so it doesn't affect too much.


Clinton, Ganon had to spend years figuring out how to get the Triforce. He had to plan everything out years in advance with every detail in mind. In order to get there he had to be cunning and powerful. He was the first person to do it, yes. But you know how long that thing had been sitting there? No, I don't either, but it was a long time. Plenty of others had their chance. Ganon truly earned it, he didn't just race for it.

Most of the other characters in this thread get their powers from elsewhere as well. Samus got hers from the Chozo, Ike from goddesses, Bowser from wherever he stole the Star Rod from. If we took away things that people weren't born with or didn't teach/make themselves, Ganon would still be way high up on the list.

 

[JOE!]

the question still stands:

who beats ganondorf?

It was said the links cannot as (Ylink never did 1st off) Toon / Regular link allways got help.

Ike would be possessed and then shennaigans....

the ONLY interesting Ganondorf Match I see is Samus, because she may be on the same level as ganondorf to defeat him, all depedning on how the Light beam and Light Suit (the biggest F*** YOU! to evil/darkness samus has) interacts with the king of evil here.

another quick question:

how do you guys deal with turn based fighters vs real time fighters? There are totally different mechanics involved such as things that last for X turns, in a fight with no turns, and so forth.

 

[REL38]

@JOE

As of this moment, no one can really beat Ganon.

I'd put my money on Bowser, but that match will happen when it happens.

Ganon possessing only happened with Zelda while she was unconscious iirc

Light Beam =/= evil repeling
The Ing aren't necessarily "evil".

Turn based fighters can freely roam. Perform attacks and whatnot.
Speed of attacks/movement are based on stats/gameplay/examples

Same with items and the like.

 

[JOE!]

still, just because he did it to zelda does not mean he cannot do it to someone else, she also had triforce power if that means anything...

The ing anre beings of darkness, which ganon is kinda. The light beam > darkness....so light beam could potentially do the same thing light arrows did to ganon, only with a more rapid firing rate and more damage?

and why would bowser beat ganon? they can both wish, but Ganondorf doesnt need to use the starrod to do so, he just God-power's his way to relive bowser of the star rod, game over.

at the moment, there is no need to discuss anyone vs Ganon except maybe Samus because of the fact that nobody here can beat him. All his MUs will just be for all intents and purposes "LOL, +1 ganon".

 

[Ganonsburg]

I would think that Bowser vs Ganon would require more discussion than Samus vs Ganon. But Ganon wins those anyway (possess Bowser, possess Samus).

Zelda has the Triforce of Wisdom. Although I'm sure it still offered her some protection. Just because he can possess someone unconscious doesn't mean he can only do that. If it was specifically said, then yes. But it wasn't, so we can just assume that he can possess at will (given some thought and willpower, obviously). If there were anyone smarter than him, possession may be more difficult, but Ganon is definitely one of Nintendo's smartest and strong-willed characters.

 

[REL38]

Personally, I hardly see Samus beating Ganon.

Samus only has 250 Light Beam ammo.
A charged shot is 5 ammo
Ganon would hardly be an easy targtet.

Still, from the time I've been lurking this thread, I still don't see the Ing being "evil" as the Light Beam kills "evil".

I have my reasons for Bowser. Revolving around the Star Rod.
But these are MU's that haven't happened yet, so w/e


Part of the cast is the reason Ganon has matches.
Part of the cast is why ROB has matches.
Broken or terrible, being part of the cast means they get matches.
No exclusions.

@Ganonsburg
But is there evidence of Ganon possessing a conscious person?

The only factor I see "mental capacity" having with possessing is being conscious or not.
When you're awake, the brain is processing a lot differently than when you're asleep/knocked out.

@MU
Exactly what has a Landmaster and Arwing tanked in StarFox games?

 

[Samochan]

If ganon could possess just with the snap of his fingers (or the lack of thereof), we'd be seeing that much, much more. Zelda was not only unconscious, she had given her... I dunno what, but something important, to Midna which restored her back from Zant's evil magic, but also was something Midna couldn't have accepted from her as it endangered Zelda. That counts for a lot, it made her totally vulnerable to Ganondorf's mind magic and she became a simple puppet till the "thing" flowed back into her from Midna, which woke her up. I don't think they ever mentioned what it was, but my best guess is some triforce of wisdom power cause her triforce piece on her hand was glowing and she was practically healing midna.

 

[PowerBomb]

The Ing are darkness, but not necessarily evil. Samus' ship has unlimited ammunition in it for her. Charged Light Beam shots home in to their enemy, and a stacked shot would home in as well. I'd bet the entire stacked shot would be more efficient than just the Light Beam on its own.

 

[REL38]

The Ing are darkness, but not necessarily evil. Samus' ship has unlimited ammunition in it for her. Charged Light Beam shots home in to their enemy, and a stacked shot would home in as well. I'd bet the entire stacked shot would be more efficient than just the Light Beam on its own.

I see Samus' ship being destroyed within the first 5 seconds :/
Even if she calls it down :/

From what I remember, a charged Light Beam shot would kinda scatter with some of the individual "shots" missing, even with homing. But that's not really that big of a deal anyway.

Exactly what do you mean by "stacked shot"?
As in all of her suits increase the damage ratio of beams?

 

[JOE!]

If we can stack the light beam with her other beams like in Super Metroid, then she has anti-darkness beam that homes in on ganon and gives him actual owies.

anyways, I am not arguing that ganondorf should be taken off, more or less I am arguing "why should we bother?" seeing as NO Mu except the ones we mention right now (bowser and samus?) could be of any trivial result other than ganon pwning.

as for posession, it was new in TP and done only to make an interestign plot point as you fighting Zelda. Ganon can possess freely it should be assumed.

@ current fight:

Exactly why can't Mewtwo PSYCHICALLY target Fox inside the vehicle?

 

[BSP]

@ Clinton

Regardless whether or not they have to "store energy", Sonic gets to come to these battles fully prepared, so they're already charged.

When you say I'm doing everything the "others" are doing, that's pretty much everyone else in this thread. >_> I'm on board if you can convince "the others", but good luck.

Forget the egg tank thing. It doesn't matter if he was protecting or whatever, I don't really care anymore.

Yes, PK is an umbrella term, but Ness hasn't performed some of the things included under that umbrella term, and we can't assume that he can.

I'm done replying, it can wait until we get to Sonic vs. whoever.

And what's stopping Ganon from defeating Samus the same way he defeated Sonic? How do Bowser and Samus have any more chance if Ganon can "disable people without moving a muscle?"

 

[REL38]

@JOE

Darkness =/= Evil

I'm still not under the impression Light Beam can do much of anything to Ganon aside from stunning him as the Light Arrows apparently do (?)

Anyone stuck against Ganon is pretty much losing. Even those in the 10% of barely standing even with him can very well lose. Sucks for them is all I gotta say.

In regards to possession, I still don't see how performing such a feat on an unconscious person means he can do so on a conscious one.
It's mere assumption.

@Mariobrouser
Personally, I only see Bowser, Samus, Sonic and Ike being able to, at best, go even with Ganon.
Link is the only one with the tool to kill Ganon (Master Sword), but he'd be dead before he reaches him. I'd maybe include Zelda as well.

 

[Samochan]

<_> It's kinda backwards if we base this in the games where Link can and always beats ganon, but then he supposedly can't beat him here. >_>

About Samus ship... it can take a beating from Ghor for some time (he was even throwing it around madly) and was only incapable of flight for some duration, but otherwise only the hull seemed harmed much. It has self-repairing system and also self-defence mechanism.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

How can Mewtwo bring down Fox's Arwing?

 

[PowerBomb]

@JOE

Darkness =/= Evil

I'm still not under the impression Light Beam can do much of anything to Ganon aside from stunning him as the Light Arrows apparently do (?)

@Mariobrouser
Personally, I only see Bowser, Samus, Sonic and Ike being able to, at best, go even with Ganon.
Link is the only one with the tool to kill Ganon (Master Sword), but he'd be dead before he reaches him. I'd maybe include Zelda as well.

I'm actually really impressed with Bowser's strength. It's really quite amazing. Bowser's Inside Story is quite fun.

Actually, I don't believe the Light Beam will actually do anything to Ganny. I mean, the Light Arrows only ever stunned him, and Link used the Master Sword to deliver the final blow to Ganon.

The stacked Beam is this one Beam that has all of the Beam weapons Samus has ever received combined into one. The damage becomes insanely high, and the status affects are all kept by that Beam. So, the Light Beam is integrated into that one powerful Beam, and its Darkness-harming ability is added as well.

@Samochan: The reason why Link is able to defeat Ganon in some of his games is because of the way the storyline operates. In OoT, Zelda stepped in to help Link. In WW, the King of Red Lions went in and Triforced Ganon. In Twilight Princess, the Spirits of Light helped Link AND Zelda.

 

[missingnomaster]

I thought the stacked beam only included Samus' weapons that were actually shown to...stack...
I think that would inlclude: Power, Charge, Long, Wide, Spazer, Ice, Wave, Plasma, Nova.

 

[Samochan]

Her beams first and foremost stack, but the mechanics were just different on first two prime games. >.> Like she needs to change to ice beam on prime 1, but not on super. Doesn't mean all her beams won't stack normally (like charge still stacks with beams on prime), nothing prevents stacking as she can easily absorb whatever gadget compatible with her suit she wishes. The only exception to this rule is phazon beam in hyper mode.

Though now that you brought it up... light & dark beams, among with annihilator, are the only ones in her array to actually use ammo, so it would be more problematic to stack (and as we know, phazon beam that sorta uses ammo doesn't stack either). And I dunno if those beams can even be mixed and when they do, it's an entirely different beam alltogether (annihilator).

We could argue it's a game mech, prime 1 beams stack in super and beams stack in prime 3 as well... annihilator would be redundant if you could stack the beams automatically though. <_>

 

[missingnomaster]

The Ice Beam from Prime and Super are very different weapons though. (at least in rate of fire)

That's going pretty far to let her stack unstackable equipment. We're already giving her all of her equipment at once...