Steam
Smash Hero
I know... I must just suck at that MU or something I suppose =/
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SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess
- Thread starter #HBC | Red Ryu
- Start date
MythTrainerInfinity
Smash Champion
What part of it do you struggle in?
Steam
Smash Hero
the getting in part.
Gnes
Smash Master
Steam
Smash Hero
if anything diddy is in our favor. I agree with falco at 55-45 though. the 5th neutral really decides a lot in this MU though, since we will strike FD and smashville most likely. and falco will generally strike YI and BF/the 5th neutral against us. and we can CP stage **** him. while falco's best stages are japes and neutrals.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
i find it hard to base matchups based off of lucarios vs arguably the best diddy. i could point to numerous instances of top pikachus taking down top marths yet it is still considered our hardest matchup
HyperEnergy
Smash Journeyman
Sounds interesting. $1 MM Lucario vs Diddy at Apex Gnes? If you're going.
hichez50
Smash Lord
I agree that the diddy match-up should be slightly in lucario favor but I can't think of any instances where top level lucario beat a top level diddy consistently.
Pitbuller26
Smash Lord
Lucarios need to get over their fear of apes and monkeys.
Hichez, I can see a top level Lucario and top level Diddy going back and forth.
Hichez, I can see a top level Lucario and top level Diddy going back and forth.
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
I think Diddy is one of our harder MUs in the game.
Its one of the harder ones but its doable, like ALL of lucario's MUs.
still gay but doable.
DDD/Snake/Diddy/MK are like our Worst MUs in that order with maybe olimar thrown in if its mlg ruleset.
Pitbull ya'll crazy no way in hell is Falco and Diddy even with us they are both slight disadvantages.
still winnable by all means but its harder us then for them.
Its one of the harder ones but its doable, like ALL of lucario's MUs.
still gay but doable.
DDD/Snake/Diddy/MK are like our Worst MUs in that order with maybe olimar thrown in if its mlg ruleset.
Pitbull ya'll crazy no way in hell is Falco and Diddy even with us they are both slight disadvantages.
still winnable by all means but its harder us then for them.
RT
Smash Hero
This is deja vu again...aren't matchup discussions supposed to be based off the top of a character's metagame....aka the best of a character? Unless I have been mislead. <_<
I'm surprised Dedede averaged the lowest.
Pitbuller26
Smash Lord
The hardest thing about Falco is getting to charge your AS due to lasers. Lasers are meant to annoy you. Falco will have a hard time killing Lucario if you stay grounded. Its very likely that we'll rarely have the percent lead in the match. Apparently I'm the odd Lucario out when it comes to Falco, I see Falco as one of Lucario's easier matchups.
With Diddy, too many factors to argue as Diddy can change his playstyle on a whim. As of now I still say Diddy/Lucario is even.
With Diddy, too many factors to argue as Diddy can change his playstyle on a whim. As of now I still say Diddy/Lucario is even.
MythTrainerInfinity
Smash Champion
How is Diddy hard, FWK? How much practice have you had glidetossing, Z dropping, and other item shenanigans?
Assuming you don't try to catch the bananas at all...
You can't get double nanner locked when you're near the edge of something.
Heck, it might just be best to wait until one of the nanners disappears and he has to use that slow 39 frame banana pull. AURA SPHERE!
Save your double jump some of the time just in case you do get hit by a nanner midair.
He doesn't kill us until like 150% and maybe 130% at the edge. By then all of our Tilts become kill moves lol.
Phil has stressed before how important it is to get at least some control over bananas. Remember, you don't always have to directly throw it at him.
Assuming you don't try to catch the bananas at all...
You can't get double nanner locked when you're near the edge of something.
Heck, it might just be best to wait until one of the nanners disappears and he has to use that slow 39 frame banana pull. AURA SPHERE!
Save your double jump some of the time just in case you do get hit by a nanner midair.
He doesn't kill us until like 150% and maybe 130% at the edge. By then all of our Tilts become kill moves lol.
Phil has stressed before how important it is to get at least some control over bananas. Remember, you don't always have to directly throw it at him.
HyperEnergy
Smash Journeyman
Lucario vs Diddy is in Luc's advantage slightly. Being able to use his bananas against him is too good.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Wow pandemonium has ensued.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
imo matchups should be based around the upper mid levels, at high levels matchups rapidly become unimportant and its the player who matters the most. if the pikachu boards decided to use top competition play as matchups, then we could easily conclude that pikachu counters marth 60-40, which is to say the least ridiculous lol
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
There are top level marths in the Midwest?
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
My item shenanigans are great.
I love playing around with items.
but Diddy is hard because I'm going to be straight up honest.
***** has some of the best pressure in the game
He Can camp you if he wanted to and even if he doesn't he still has decent options VS you.
We both have workarounds to each other's airgame but our horizontal [as in horizontally linear].
We BOTH can **** up each other's recovery once we're around the higher %s but Diddy has a generally easier time forcing us to the edge if he decides to take the offensive and can do it just as well with camping.
I'm not saying its a bad MU at all myth, but I think its one of our hardest MUs, AND a disadvantage even though its slight.
Its only fitting that some of our hardest MUs include the top 3 in the game
Pitbull, Falco's Lasers Do damage.
if you have more damage [which you will VS Falco] you lose at the end of 8 minutes unless you're using Mexico's ruleset.
On top of that, they are annoying which can get to most people, ussually people get frustrated after they've eaten lasers and resets for 2 minutes and when they finally catch falco escapes again or even kills you.
again, not saying its not winnable but its still a disadvantage yo, albeit closer to even then most.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
anther beat neo at the first apex (i am unsure of this, this is what i remember), esam beat chaz at mlg orlando (im sure of this)
from my view watching pika tourney results for a couple years, the mid level matchup between pikachu and marth shows a definite marth advantage 70-30. but at the higher levels, it rapidly approaches 50-50. this shows in the matchup ratios provided by pikachu players which shows a definite scaling of ratios of bad disadvantage vs marth at the mids to a near even matchup once you get to the good pikachus
from my view watching pika tourney results for a couple years, the mid level matchup between pikachu and marth shows a definite marth advantage 70-30. but at the higher levels, it rapidly approaches 50-50. this shows in the matchup ratios provided by pikachu players which shows a definite scaling of ratios of bad disadvantage vs marth at the mids to a near even matchup once you get to the good pikachus
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
true, true
and biglou beat a top level DDD and Marth.
and biglou beat a top level DDD and Marth.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
exactly. where do matchups end and player skill begins? from my viewpoint it happens once you transition over into the high levels of play. as such matchup ratios are only viable to midlevel play and get massivly screwed by top level play
Gnes
Smash Master
Mikehaze 2-0ed anther at mlg
Gladly. Ill be there. Look for the skinny black guy with even skinnier jeans and no fro, cuz fro=tyrant.
I have never loss to a lucario in tourney. Lee martin has never beat me, neither has trela, fonz, or any other lulu ive come across.
Are u stuck in 08 or something, people have been instant throwing for ages now, which demonstrates at least mid level naner control. However regardless to how much u learn, Bananas were meant for diddy. His actual "design" makes it easier to use naners.
U stated the 39 frame naner pull....why would i be pulling naners near u LOL. And u act as if lulu is a fast chr., which is completely not the case. By time i run to the other side and pull two naners, u'll be barely reaching the edge of the stage.
How can lulu possibly hit diddy without being punished. Every one of your moves on the ground is punishable, and every aerial is outspaced by diddys fair.
Lmao i love u philny
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
he did, anther also hasnt played much and hasnt been placing well at all. he was also ****** mike haze second match pretty hard till he sd'd.
Pitbuller26
Smash Lord
You've earned the right to brag.
Diddy, from what I've learned is a matchup where you're going to get hit no matter what and the key to winning is taking the right hits. I know how strong of a move Diddy's fair is, I don't challenge it however I do bait it.
Steam
Smash Hero
ok... so how on earth is Rob supposedly slightly in our favor? his fair and ftilt are just brutal, he outcamps us, has superior range generally, and is also better up close... all we really have is juggling/strings and the fact that he'll have a semi hard time killing us.
edit: Post 666!
edit: Post 666!
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
and the other point is, with gnes living close to trela and lee, he easily has the best lucario exp of any diddy, so him ****** at that matchup could only be expected.
and rob isnt that bad steam if you learn how to PS his projectiles and laggy moves. he really isnt that bad for lucario at all
and rob isnt that bad steam if you learn how to PS his projectiles and laggy moves. he really isnt that bad for lucario at all
RT
Smash Hero
Arrogance? Perhaps a little...but it's also 100% fact. I think he's entitled to have some, lol.
How are you going bait Diddy's fair when it's almost always safer to toss bananas at a distance? It's not like Diddy has to rely on fair for damage building or comboing. It's better to save it for kills or a get-the-heck-away-from-me-your-aura-fiend move.
And Gnes is only trying to help you guys realize some stuff that you don't see from a Diddy's standpoint. If he knows the matchup that well, then OF COURSE you want his input, lolz...
Switching gears, Falco...you just have to eat his lasers...because Lucario can't kill without damage anyways, lolololololololol...but seriously, it's only those silent lasers to DACUS you have to worry about. If you're getting close to Falco and know he's going to Phantasm away, then...stop moving and run/jump/roll to the other side and catch him. And take every chance you get to edgeguard him during his recovery, because his overall options are limited...Phantasm onstage, onto the edge, or Fire Bird (lol). The matchup really does go back and forth, but it's pretty even.
Pitbuller26
Smash Lord
Can you recall a set(tourney or MM) where Falco has timed out Lucario?
Well Gnes is above nearly all Diddy mains and I've never played against him so its pretty hard to run simulations of what he says mentally, not to disrespect him in any way starting to regret the arrogance thing but what is said can't be taken back. The Diddy I practice with often switches up his style mid match such as going double naner or single naner.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
what is mexicos ruleset?
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
Usually we get killed before that time.
Stealth Mexico's ruleset has this rule like, in case of time out You have to play a 2 minute [I think was 2 or 3] 1 stock match. and winner advances, if that goes to time, sudden death.
It was proposed by TKD and they used it ever since.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
wow thats pretty gay lol
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
idk
let me check.
oh my bad.
its just Tijuana's Ruleset.
[collapse=Tijuana Ruleset by TKD]Settings:
- 3 stocks.
- 9 min time limit.
- Items set to "OFF" and "NONE".
Limitations:
- A stage already won on can't be selected as one's counter-pick unless agreed upon with the opponent.
- 30 ledge grab limit in case of time out.
- Grabbing the ledge more than once (meaning: twice) in Sudden Death results in a loss.
- Infinite chain-grabs and locks must end before 300% to avoid stalling.
- No under-stage traveling as Pit or Meta Knight more than once in a row without stepping on the main stage (platforms don't count).
- Meta Knight's Infinite/Extended Dimensional Cape glitch is banned.
- Meta Knight's Drill Rush glitch in Halberd is banned.
About controller port selection:
- Controller port disputes are solved via coin flip before each set played.
- One's controller port may be selected as if one won the dispute during one's counter-pick.
- In 2vs2 matches, the team that wins a player port dispute only selects the first port of the four.
Set procedure:
- The players select settings to match the rule set, tags, and/or tag-specific controls.
- Each player selects a character, after which a player port dispute may take place.
- Stage striking of the Starter Stages takes place to select the stage for the first match: Each player is to strike [(No. of stages-1)/2] stages (two when there are five starters, three when there are seven). The player whose port is closest to controller port 1 declares all of his strikes but one, the second player declares all of his stage strikes, the first player strikes the last stage, and the match is played on the remaining stage. The first stage can be selected via RANDOM or a specific stage if agreed upon.
- The winner of a match bans a stage if it was his/her first match won, the loser announces the stage to be played on next (from the Starter or Counter-pick Stages), the winner selects a character, the loser selects a character, the next round is played on the announced stage
- Sets are best of 3 except during finals when they're best of 5
Solving tied matches:
- In case of time out: Ledge grab limit > Stocks remaining. If the ledge grab limit wasn't broken by either team and each team's stocks are tied, the match is determined a tie.
- In case of the simultaneous KO of each remaining character's last stock: The game is determined a tie.
- If the match is determined a tie: A 1 stock, 3 min time limit match is to be played as the same characters on the same stage, with a ledge grab limit of 10; or to TO's discretion because of time limitations, the Sudden Death may be played.
Starter Stages [5~7].-
Battlefield
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)
Starter/Counter-pick Stages (TO discretion).-
Pokémon Stadium (Melee)
Pokémon Stadium 2
Counterpick Stages [4~6].-
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Side notes:
- Wins on tied matches aren't determined by percentage to discourage camping and time outs.
- This rule set is subject to change and can be expanded with more rules. [/collapse]
let me check.
oh my bad.
its just Tijuana's Ruleset.
[collapse=Tijuana Ruleset by TKD]Settings:
- 3 stocks.
- 9 min time limit.
- Items set to "OFF" and "NONE".
Limitations:
- A stage already won on can't be selected as one's counter-pick unless agreed upon with the opponent.
- 30 ledge grab limit in case of time out.
- Grabbing the ledge more than once (meaning: twice) in Sudden Death results in a loss.
- Infinite chain-grabs and locks must end before 300% to avoid stalling.
- No under-stage traveling as Pit or Meta Knight more than once in a row without stepping on the main stage (platforms don't count).
- Meta Knight's Infinite/Extended Dimensional Cape glitch is banned.
- Meta Knight's Drill Rush glitch in Halberd is banned.
About controller port selection:
- Controller port disputes are solved via coin flip before each set played.
- One's controller port may be selected as if one won the dispute during one's counter-pick.
- In 2vs2 matches, the team that wins a player port dispute only selects the first port of the four.
Set procedure:
- The players select settings to match the rule set, tags, and/or tag-specific controls.
- Each player selects a character, after which a player port dispute may take place.
- Stage striking of the Starter Stages takes place to select the stage for the first match: Each player is to strike [(No. of stages-1)/2] stages (two when there are five starters, three when there are seven). The player whose port is closest to controller port 1 declares all of his strikes but one, the second player declares all of his stage strikes, the first player strikes the last stage, and the match is played on the remaining stage. The first stage can be selected via RANDOM or a specific stage if agreed upon.
- The winner of a match bans a stage if it was his/her first match won, the loser announces the stage to be played on next (from the Starter or Counter-pick Stages), the winner selects a character, the loser selects a character, the next round is played on the announced stage
- Sets are best of 3 except during finals when they're best of 5
Solving tied matches:
- In case of time out: Ledge grab limit > Stocks remaining. If the ledge grab limit wasn't broken by either team and each team's stocks are tied, the match is determined a tie.
- In case of the simultaneous KO of each remaining character's last stock: The game is determined a tie.
- If the match is determined a tie: A 1 stock, 3 min time limit match is to be played as the same characters on the same stage, with a ledge grab limit of 10; or to TO's discretion because of time limitations, the Sudden Death may be played.
Starter Stages [5~7].-
Battlefield
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)
Starter/Counter-pick Stages (TO discretion).-
Pokémon Stadium (Melee)
Pokémon Stadium 2
Counterpick Stages [4~6].-
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Side notes:
- Wins on tied matches aren't determined by percentage to discourage camping and time outs.
- This rule set is subject to change and can be expanded with more rules. [/collapse]
Gnes
Smash Master
Who said strong, I think ur misinterpreting what im saying. Fair outranges all of your aerials. If u jump in the air and do a aerial, i can jump in the air and no matter which one it is win the trade. On the ground, i shouldn't even have to say anything about that. Its a mystery to why u guys would think lulu vs diddy is in lulus favor.
Matchup experience goes both ways u know. All the lucarios i've mentioned have diddy they can practice with constantly, cept lee, who lives 5 hours from me, but comes to all of our tourneys. I wish lee would give his thoughts, but i think hes long given up on the chr. boards in general.
in regards to matchups, there is no justification of mid-lvl matches having more justification on matchup ratios than top-lvl matches. Thats just silly.
D. Disciple
Smash Master
Gnes if I go to the next phase tourney at the end of the month, we should play. Need to see this Lucario slaying Diddy Kong in action live! Also need to practice strats against a high level Diddy Kong.
RT
Smash Hero
D Disciple, Trela has been literally crapping his pants that you're coming to Texas for tourneys. He can't contain himself when he sees another Lucario main, lol...you're not talking about the June Phase? Because I don't think I'm going. <_<
Pitbuller26
Smash Lord
The Diddy I play with used to have no Lucario experience but now that he does, he and I go back and forth in terms of wins. Some people said its Lucario's favor, but I believe the match is even.
On to moves. In the air if Diddy has his front side facing me, I don't bother as Diddy's fair is too good which is why I try to take the fight to the air if I'm behind Diddy ironically his bair being faster than fair IIRC. On the ground, what I do is based on # of bananas and where the bananas are at.
D. Disciple
Smash Master
As long as I don't **** up at the airport, I'll have free flights anywhere. I really want to hit up a Hobo, but the Phase tourney looks pretty nice, I just want to play in different states and travel again. Miss playing high level players, it makes it really fun for me.