SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[RT]

I just want to be there when Trela sees you...when Fonz came, Trela was so giddy with excitement and hovered around him, LOL.

 

[phi1ny3]

I have yet to see what I think could put this matchup in our favor, I totally think Lucario can and should be able to do this, but I still think Diddy's game has been more developed than Luc's, which is why I say it's in Diddy's favor.

Technically, Diddy's fair outranges marth's, but that doesn't necessarily make Marth's airgame invalidated, does it? The mere fact that he has more relative flexibility (I know people say "diddy's fair can autocancel", but that's by PSA standards which by that definition any aerial can given enough time before or after lol), the fact that the only replies with diddy aerials are usually oos just means a matter of spacing differently for more aerially oriented characters.

@ Falco timing comments:
unfortunately, I have yet to see any Falco who's actually skilled enough to do this safely (aka DEHF) be seeded with a good lucario, so the answer is no lol.

The neighborhood Diddy variety is also far different from the super-high-level-I'm-going-to-take-your-lunchmoney and IYT,TFA kind. Hence why I'm totally capable of winning against every Diddy except F3lix (anti name search) in my region lol.

 

[Gnes]

I have yet to see what I think could put this matchup in our favor, I totally think Lucario can and should be able to do this, but I still think Diddy's game has been more developed than Luc's, which is why I say it's in Diddy's favor.

Technically, Diddy's fair outranges marth's, but that doesn't necessarily make Marth's airgame invalidated, does it? The mere fact that he has more relative flexibility (I know people say "diddy's fair can autocancel", but that's by PSA standards which by that definition any aerial can given enough time before or after lol), the fact that the only replies with diddy aerials are usually oos just means a matter of spacing differently for more aerially oriented characters.

No it doesnt philny...they trade if marths fair is extended to its full range(tipper).

 

[phi1ny3]

Okay, good to know because that's what MBR said iirc lol

similar principle anyhow, DK and ROB would render Luc incapable of using aerial approaches/zoning if they won by range alone, right?

 

[RT]

The neighborhood Diddy variety is also far different from the super-high-level-I'm-going-to-take-your-lunchmoney and IYT,TFA kind. Hence why I'm totally capable of winning against every Diddy except Felix in my region lol.

^This.

I've ***** plenty of lesser Diddy in tourney and can easily make the matchup appear to be in Lucario's favor. Heck, I've three-stocked some. But when I start playing better Diddys...the matchup suddenly becomes not so easy, regardless if they have Lucario experience or not.

Also, keep in mind, trying to shut down Diddy's options with bananas is extremely difficult because a) Diddys will be more apt with bananas than you, unless you practice for hours and hours upon end, b) Diddys will have trained themselves to catch bananas, because they have to learn how to instant catch/throw for their combos, and c) Diddy has more applications with bananas. Lucario has some too, but most are situational and require you to be super precise with timing.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah, it's gay that Lucario doesn't equate to a anti-"I'm gay and combo but I can't kill" slayer every time.

Still, I think next time I play F3lix (anti name search), there's going to be a lot of different stuff coming at him, bananas and blue balls and the nuts will wage war.

wow, if that doesn't tell you how gay a MU can be, I don't know what would.

 

[Steam]

and the other point is, with gnes living close to trela and lee, he easily has the best lucario exp of any diddy, so him ****** at that matchup could only be expected.

and rob isnt that bad steam if you learn how to PS his projectiles and laggy moves. he really isnt that bad for lucario at all

I've been doing that but I can't approach him... I really can't get around the fair/ftilt wall thing =/

 

[Pitbuller26]

Gnes, as my new Diddy friend you must get me Lee Martin's autograph.

Phil, that was too full of imagery.

 

[iDeo]

The Diddy MU is in Diddy's favor. He just has far more options than Lucario has to begin with. Diddy's can camp, create set-ups, mindgame the bananas. Lucario doesn't have options like that which put him at a disadvantage, not to mention Lucario is just a straight forward character in general.

And Falco, are u guyz serious?! It's no where close to to Lucario favor. He too has more applications: camping, pressure, and if u wanna get scientific he has more frame advantage over Lucario.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

pshielding falcos lasers and his phantasm make that matchup ridiculously easier..........

 

[Gnes]

pshielding falcos lasers and his phantasm make that matchup ridiculously easier..........

Even in PS his two lasers...he still has a 2 frame jab(or something to that effect) waiting for u when u try to approach.

 

[Pitbuller26]

And that's what I find most annoying about Falco, his jabs.

 

[hichez50]

Even in PS his two lasers...he still has a 2 frame jab(or something to that effect) waiting for u when u try to approach.

That is why you use ftilt. Falco will almost always retreat when he is at midrange. His only other option is reflector, which Even I think that predictable.

 

[iDeo]

That is why you use ftilt. Falco will almost always retreat when he is at midrange. His only other option is reflector, which Even I think that predictable.

more than likely Falco's jab will hit u because it's disjointed and can reach.

 

[hichez50]

more than likely Falco's jab will hit u because it's disjointed and can reach.

Im pretty sure that starting at 40%-50% or something with spacing your ftilt, ftilt will cancel with falcos jab. From there you could roll away or attack if you feel as if falco won't jab again.

 

[iDeo]

Im pretty sure that starting at 40%-50% or something with spacing your ftilt, ftilt will cancel with falcos jab. From there you could roll away or attack if you feel as if falco won't jab again.

u could, but Lucario is still vulnerable after f-tilt because its take the move a sec. to finish; so Falco could very well do the same as the idea u thought but capitalize better from it by camping or rolling behind Lucario and jab again.

 

[Steam]

if ftilt and jab clank falco gets a free jab since it comes out frame 2 and is faster than anything we can do.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I think Falco is harder to fight than Diddy. You get close and his Jab will clank with pretty much everything we have (until we get a decent Aura boost).

iRJi suggested to me to DI the hits behind Falco though.

Falco is my second and I love how much Jab resets the situation.

Just remember that our FAir pretty much outranges anything that's not a projectile that Falco has.

I may be jumping around too much though.

 

[Steam]

we can also crouch/crawl under any onstage non ground laser.

 

[iDeo]

I'm gonna go on ahead and say that the Falco MU is simply 55:45 Falco's favor. The only reason I'm not saying it 60:40 is because we can gimp Falco even at low percentages.

Surely this MU is doable, but regardless Falco favors this MU.

 

[Steam]

this should be nowhere near 6:4. it's 55:45 or even. mainly because we **** him on our CP and depending on the 5th neutral our life could be a lot easier first match.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Speaking about crawling under lasers, don't we crawl under Fox's lasers? (Crawl, but not in our crouch stance.)

Also in liberal stage CPs Falco does not wanna take us to Japes because we survive forever lol.

 

[RT]

Falcos do okay on JJ...have you not seen what kind of Phantasm tricks they can do there for running away? And sides for camping?

Also, why would you bother crawling under Fox's lasers? <_<

 

[Kitamerby]

We can't crawl under ****.

If only we could lop off those huge ears...

 

[phi1ny3]

lol jungle japes

such a silly stage.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Falcos do okay on JJ...have you not seen what kind of Phantasm tricks they can do there for running away? And sides for camping?

Also, why would you bother crawling under Fox's lasers? <_<

^This.


its mad to bring Falco there..

he camps the sections like crrraaazzyyy. and Phantasm is dumb as hell.

And he wont Upsmash you. he'll just go ahead and bair all day.

 

[F1ZZ]

Why on earth would you bring a Falco to JJ. Here is just a simple demo from a while back of the effectiveness of Phantasm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaYTWNcg0qE.

Bring Flaco to Brinstar, well that is what I try to do.

 

[culexus・wau]

Bringing Falco to japes is a fool's idea.

I wouldn't mind being taken there though.

 

[Tony T]

Bringing Falco to japes is a fool's idea.

I wouldn't mind being taken there though.

lol same here if it was against any other character but Falco or Fox yeah but I don't mind nonetheless.

Oh and Sorry for the delay I had to do Job applications this weekend but I'm Still Working on my new B-Stick topic discussion for Lucario, it will be ready before Friday the most because I'm trying not to leave anything out: Advantages, Disadvantages, Strengths, Weaknesses, Mind Games, etc. I'll even have videos available from some of the matches I was in that can give you a Idea of the full potential of this tech.
Also exploring new possibilities with this Adv Tech that maybe even Lee may not even know or never even tried yet. This can possibly give us an edge against the so called Lucario Killers in the world.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Bringing Falco to japes is a fool's idea.

I wouldn't mind being taken there though.

too bad banned stage is banned.

I'd take falco to FD no problem. Don't be afraid of his lasers so much, and kinda dance around his front. Your jab does wonders in this matchup to.

IF falco has used his second jump and is far enough from the ledge, shoot a FC AS so that when he's stage level with you it would connect, he'd have to decide to airdodge it/shine it(which would make him fall too fast to side B), or eat the hit.

love that mindgame.

 

[D. Disciple]

You would be surprise how many hits you can land on Falco before he can hit you, if you're at high percent, be cautious but don't sweat it. 5 hits will kill that bird.

 

[phi1ny3]

Brinstar is great against Falco if you can get it w/o being banned.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

To correct myself Lucario sometimes crawls under Fox's lasers (he cannot be in a neutral ducking stance, but crawling). Heck, I think it just goes right between his ears. I think you can time the crawl, so it does miss every laser, its kind of pointless though.

Falco just has to be gangsta and aim his laser lower though :x

I'm starting to wonder how much Double Team shenanigans we could get away with against Snake.

 

[RT]

Not much, because Snake doesn't have a lot of moves that have a good amount of ending lag, so he could probably just PS the attack. And if you fail to get DT triggered...well, hope you enjoy getting 21+% added to your damage counter...

 

[Pitbuller26]

Brinstar is great against Falco if you can get it w/o being banned.

So now we got 2 good CPs on Falco: Brinstar and Frigate. Oddly enough I would've never thought of Brinstar.

 

[iDeo]

me neither for Brinstar. But that stage is a double edge sword for both Lucario and Falco, but it does limit the laser spamming; that's always a plus

 

[phi1ny3]

Brinstar is amazing because if he's used to camping with phantasm he'll have to do without (90% of the time phantasming once = loss of stock rofl). That and lasers are crippled due to small stage size + how even more limited it gets when lava comes around, and the fact that even with this limit he STILL won't be able to reset with phantasm.

Plus we have some silly edgeguarding tricks there.

Brinstar is amazing except against characters like Wario and MK lol, I'm also experimenting to see how good it is against DDD (assuming you get good enough to avoid all his traditional kill moves for most of the time). I guess it's also pretty bad against Snake too, but it's a really underrated stage for Luc imo.

 

[RT]

Brinstar can go either ways. Its terrain can mess up the chaingrab, lasers can get blocked by slime stuff, and acid prevents spike kills. Falco also has to space Phantasm to recover on the edge. On the other hand, blast zones are relatively close and staying near the top platform can result in early usmash/uair kills for Falco. And both sides benefit from the slowdown affect when attacking the slime things.

It all depends how comfortable you feel on the stage.

EDIT: Dang it, ninja'd...

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah blastzone is the only big problem about it, but I'm thoroughly convinced it's Falco's worst stage.

Yeah I totally forgot that phantasm has to be spaced right or he'll just die.

but then again, they always get one ban, so chances are this is not going to be an option.

Then Frigate would probably be your next best bet at that point.
If brinstar is banned, it'd be Frigate first, then Lylat as a close next.

 

[RT]

Lylat is also often cited because the tilting can literally kill them as they recover. I think it happened to someone I played in a tourney match...too funny.

I'm never picking Frigate nor am I ever recommending it again. The Frigate curse has struck me too many times.